DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

Interesting stuff found on the thread......

Sluggo wrote:

Let me try to add something to this discussion that will (may) remove one tiny piece of uncertainty. Some may call it anecdotal, if so, I’m not offended. I’m in the same boat with the rest of you, too many statements and not enough “facts”.

In a phone conversation with Ralph Himmelsbach on March 6th, 2009. While sitting in my car outside the Conestoga Steak House in Dothan, AL. I asked Ralph, point blank; “Where did the data for the flight path, shown on the 1970s era Seattle sectional (do you know the one I mean?, Ralph says “yes”) come from?” “Do you know who produced (drew) the map itself?”

Ralph replied (without hesitation); “I DON’T KNOW!”

What I should have (additionally) asked was; “Were you aware of the map BEFORE your retirement?” I will be talking to him next week and I will ask that question then.

Maybe we can figure out the origin of the document that we (I) have put so much faith in.

Sluggo_Monster

Exempt from the “something to this discussion that will (may) remove one tiny piece of uncertainty” statement above:

Aditionally, there is an aviation professional that I am aware of but have not yet been able to contact (but I am trying) who was an eye-witness, and disputes Ralph’s claim about the deviation toward Troutdale (the town, not the airport).

Jerry Thomas:

Your question very good one.So I called Ralph a few minutes ago and ask him. This is what he said, The FBI agents that interviewed the pilots were not pilots themselves and questions a pilot would have asked were not. The airline pilots assumed that the FBI new they were to the east. It wasn't untill Ralphs retirement party that Rat and Ralph talked about this.Then it was realized. Now for the flight map.The map came from NW Airlines engeneers and was at best a guess aparently they hadn't talked to the pilots either.



Snowman:

"I also find it odd that it is mentioned the plane was not "on radar"? What is that supposed to mean as ATC radar beams don't decide to randomly "ignore" a plane. The transponder can probably be turned off on the plane which aids ATC (assuming they had those then anyway)."

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Also several "ident requests" were given by Seattle ARTCC.

The transponder lost, happened well south of PDX. (in time).

Jerry/Himmelsbach's comment about no radar is wrong.

Now there is a valid question about whether radar data was stored and used in the flight path map. The '72 DZ map implies that radar from McChord was used along with flight recorder data.
That means flight recorder data was recovered.

Now McChord implies military radar, not Seattle ARTCC.

So it's confusing.

But the questions are more subtle than what Jerry is proposing.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

Snowman:

"I also find it odd that it is mentioned the plane was not "on radar"? What is that supposed to mean as ATC radar beams don't decide to randomly "ignore" a plane. The transponder can probably be turned off on the plane which aids ATC (assuming they had those then anyway)."

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Also several "ident requests" were given by Seattle ARTCC.

The transponder lost, happened well south of PDX. (in time).

Jerry/Himmelsbach's comment about no radar is wrong.

Now there is a valid question about whether radar data was stored and used in the flight path map. The '72 DZ map implies that radar from McChord was used along with flight recorder data.
That means flight recorder data was recovered.

Now McChord implies military radar, not Seattle ARTCC.

So it's confusing.

But the questions are more subtle than what Jerry is proposing.

I'd like to comment on several things mentioned above although I can't tell exactly who it is I am reply to.

The NWA airliner was squawking transponder code 3100 all the way from Seattle to Reno.

The requests for the airliner to "ident" were normal and used during handoffs from one controller to another. All the ident function does is cause the image of the specific aircraft to enlarge on the controller's radar so he can be certain he is looking at the image of the desired aircraft.

The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen".

If the radar return from the airliner's transponder was "lost" due to terrain issues, then pressing the "ident" button on the transponder would not have any effect at all on what the radar was seeing or not seeing.

In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable.

The purpose of the CVR and FDR recordings were to assist in accident investigations. The FAA has come down hard on some airline pilots who pulled the circuit breakers to retain data on such things as incidents with air traffic controllers. Apparently the FAA wants the recorders to continue to run until some metal gets bent.

There is little possibility that voice or aircraft recorder data was used in the hijacking "incident" investigation.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***

Snowman:

"I also find it odd that it is mentioned the plane was not "on radar"? What is that supposed to mean as ATC radar beams don't decide to randomly "ignore" a plane. The transponder can probably be turned off on the plane which aids ATC (assuming they had those then anyway)."

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Also several "ident requests" were given by Seattle ARTCC.

The transponder lost, happened well south of PDX. (in time).

Jerry/Himmelsbach's comment about no radar is wrong.

Now there is a valid question about whether radar data was stored and used in the flight path map. The '72 DZ map implies that radar from McChord was used along with flight recorder data.
That means flight recorder data was recovered.

Now McChord implies military radar, not Seattle ARTCC.

So it's confusing.

But the questions are more subtle than what Jerry is proposing.

I'd like to comment on several things mentioned above although I can't tell exactly who it is I am reply to.

The NWA airliner was squawking transponder code 3100 all the way from Seattle to Reno.

The requests for the airliner to "ident" were normal and used during handoffs from one controller to another. All the ident function does is cause the image of the specific aircraft to enlarge on the controller's radar so he can be certain he is looking at the image of the desired aircraft.

The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen".

If the radar return from the airliner's transponder was "lost" due to terrain issues, then pressing the "ident" button on the transponder would not have any effect at all on what the radar was seeing or not seeing.

In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable.

The purpose of the CVR and FDR recordings were to assist in accident investigations. The FAA has come down hard on some airline pilots who pulled the circuit breakers to retain data on such things as incidents with air traffic controllers. Apparently the FAA wants the recorders to continue to run until some metal gets bent.

There is little possibility that voice or aircraft recorder data was used in the hijacking "incident" investigation.

Robert99


what about the FBI document stating data was recovered from the recorder? was it minimal information at best for 1971? it was relatively new to the industry during this time period. or is it possible they are talking about radio transmissions?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen"...'

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying.

You literally don't know what you are yammering about or
anything about this!

[mrshutter45 21]

georger

***Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen"...'

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying.

You literally don't know what you are yammering about or
anything about this!




he needs to correct his own problems. website still full of error's, but as usual he must correct everyone here, or try to.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

Interesting stuff found on the thread......

Sluggo wrote:

Let me try to add something to this discussion that will (may) remove one tiny piece of uncertainty. Some may call it anecdotal, if so, I’m not offended. I’m in the same boat with the rest of you, too many statements and not enough “facts”.

In a phone conversation with Ralph Himmelsbach on March 6th, 2009. While sitting in my car outside the Conestoga Steak House in Dothan, AL. I asked Ralph, point blank; “Where did the data for the flight path, shown on the 1970s era Seattle sectional (do you know the one I mean?, Ralph says “yes”) come from?” “Do you know who produced (drew) the map itself?”

Ralph replied (without hesitation); “I DON’T KNOW!”

What I should have (additionally) asked was; “Were you aware of the map BEFORE your retirement?” I will be talking to him next week and I will ask that question then.

Maybe we can figure out the origin of the document that we (I) have put so much faith in.

Sluggo_Monster

Exempt from the “something to this discussion that will (may) remove one tiny piece of uncertainty” statement above:

Aditionally, there is an aviation professional that I am aware of but have not yet been able to contact (but I am trying) who was an eye-witness, and disputes Ralph’s claim about the deviation toward Troutdale (the town, not the airport).

Jerry Thomas:

Your question very good one.So I called Ralph a few minutes ago and ask him. This is what he said, The FBI agents that interviewed the pilots were not pilots themselves and questions a pilot would have asked were not. The airline pilots assumed that the FBI new they were to the east. It wasn't untill Ralphs retirement party that Rat and Ralph talked about this.Then it was realized. Now for the flight map.The map came from NW Airlines engeneers and was at best a guess aparently they hadn't talked to the pilots either.



Snowman:

"I also find it odd that it is mentioned the plane was not "on radar"? What is that supposed to mean as ATC radar beams don't decide to randomly "ignore" a plane. The transponder can probably be turned off on the plane which aids ATC (assuming they had those then anyway)."

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Also several "ident requests" were given by Seattle ARTCC.

The transponder lost, happened well south of PDX. (in time).

Jerry/Himmelsbach's comment about no radar is wrong.

Now there is a valid question about whether radar data was stored and used in the flight path map. The '72 DZ map implies that radar from McChord was used along with flight recorder data.
That means flight recorder data was recovered.

Now McChord implies military radar, not Seattle ARTCC.

So it's confusing.

But the questions are more subtle than what Jerry is proposing.

Sluggo's results with H were no surprise. This is "sacred cow"
stuff and I almost hate to get involved but:

1. H was not in charge of the case.
2. H did not have jurisdiction in the case.
3. Jurisdiction and all case-work command and control was out
of the Seattle office and other offices including the FAA, NWA,
McChord, FBI/DC etc ... H was not involved in any of this so far
as the historical records shows, thus far ... why would he be?
... and he quite often was not even informed! H would not have
received updated information until 'after the fact', if at all.

The very fact that he does not apparently know who or what
made the first flight path 'data set', is either a bald faced lie on
his part, or, it shows clearly just where in the pecking order he
was. As for Mr. Thomas, he is his own enigma.

The photo attached is one example. Is 'H' in this group of
people and if not why not, if he is central and important in this
part of FBI's work on this case? After all, we are told by the
myth makers, H's FBI credentials include 'expertise in aviation'
and that is why he was assigned to fill a central role in the
Portland office in the first place ... having had non combat P51
training and all, versus other agents with no or less 'aviation
expertise' !? I could toss some names out here to provide
context and perspective but I think the point is illustrated.

Troutdale Myth This red herring has been peddled by JT
forever. No proof whatever. Lots of counter proof. Well
researched by a number of good people. (we went straight to
the sources who would have known and been personally
involved and all of them say "total nonsense".)

Nothing in anyone's fp analysis points to Troutdale.

This has all been covered before in this thread!

Were proof that Troutdale was involved suddenly come to light
by some means I can't even imagine (at this stage) then lots of
other information-history-testimony would suddenly be in
jeopardy ... and need revising. I don't think that's going to
happen; Jerry Thomas and Himmelsbach and RobertMBlevins
notwithstanding! And Aamazon too!

I really wish the Troutdale 'gobblewobble' could be put to rest
once and for all - forever!

One might as well claim it was Jerry Thomas and Ralph
Himmelsbach who were - and still are! - in charge of the DB
Cooper case, and all other documentation in the case is wrong!

Nuff saide.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen"...'

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying.

Blevins, The post I quoted said well south of Portland.

Robert99

[Hominid 0]

Robert99

In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable.

Robert99

How is it that you know what FDRs all planes had in '71?

[EVickiW 0]

mrshutter45

******Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen"...'

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying.

You literally don't know what you are yammering about or
anything about this!




he needs to correct his own problems. website still full of error's, but as usual he must correct everyone here, or try to.....




Or take the time to respond to a question that was previously asked by MarkBennett. I asked the same question on January 9th.

Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?

MarkBennett

***
Very difficult. You would have to contact the available - and best - witnesses and then approach them with pictures of your suspect, etc. Try Florence Schaffner, some of the passengers perhaps. We're currently running up a package for a guy who lives in Springfield, OR who sat across the aisle from Cooper. If you need their addresses, PM me...that is unless you've already blocked me from PM's because I'm so dangerous. (*laughs*)

Just curious, Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?

It is a simple question. Answer it.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

************Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen"...'

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying.

You literally don't know what you are yammering about or
anything about this!




he needs to correct his own problems. website still full of error's, but as usual he must correct everyone here, or try to.....




Or take the time to respond to a question that was previously asked by MarkBennett. I asked the same question on January 9th.

Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?

MarkBennett

***
Very difficult. You would have to contact the available - and best - witnesses and then approach them with pictures of your suspect, etc. Try Florence Schaffner, some of the passengers perhaps. We're currently running up a package for a guy who lives in Springfield, OR who sat across the aisle from Cooper. If you need their addresses, PM me...that is unless you've already blocked me from PM's because I'm so dangerous. (*laughs*)

Just curious, Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?

It is a simple question. Answer it.

NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening.

Frankly, some of you can't be trusted. Others I have no problem with. The 'others' group is much larger, fortunately. You may contact me by email, but then I will have to verify your identity and obtain a Confidentiality Agreement from you to release anything. Sorry, but that's the way it goes. Besides, I have to verify certain info.

Also, the reason I haven't adjusted the AB website page is because we are having some tech issues getting access. We recently bought a dot com for BG Housecleaning and linked editing with the AB site. So now...I had to send in a tech request because we can access BG for editing, but not AB. I am working on this and I WILL adjust the DB Cooper Page as soon as I can get access to editing. I think putting the same email address to both sites for editing access may be causing login problems. Trying to reset the password gets the BG site, but not AB. Webs.com is aware of this problem and they will get back to me on Monday.

On the other subject: 'Well south of Portland'. Okay, so what? I'm pretty sure by that time Cooper was long gone, since the airstairs indicator light only flashed the one time and then stayed on for good all the way to Reno. So after the point Cooper jumped, the only thing relevant about 305 was that it was an unscheduled flight.

Here's a little song I wrote
You might want to sing it note for note
Don't worry, be happy
In every life we have some trouble
But when you worry you make it double
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy now

Ain't got no place to lay your head
Somebody came and took your bed
Don't worry, be happy
The landlord say your rent is late
He may have to litigate
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

[EVickiW 0]

RobertMBlevins

***


Or take the time to respond to a question that was previously asked by MarkBennett. I asked the same question on January 9th.

Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?



******
Very difficult. You would have to contact the available - and best - witnesses and then approach them with pictures of your suspect, etc. Try Florence Schaffner, some of the passengers perhaps. We're currently running up a package for a guy who lives in Springfield, OR who sat across the aisle from Cooper. If you need their addresses, PM me...that is unless you've already blocked me from PM's because I'm so dangerous. (*laughs*)

Just curious, Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?

It is a simple question. Answer it.

NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening.

Frankly, some of you can't be trusted. Others I have no problem with. The 'others' group is much larger, fortunately. You may contact me by email, but then I will have to verify your identity and obtain a Confidentiality Agreement from you to release anything. Sorry, but that's the way it goes. Besides, I have to verify certain info.



Then why bring it up in the first place if you do not intend to expand on it? Your response could have been as easy as: Yes....he received it and I have been in contact with him. Or.....No, wrong person.

If you are not comfortable sharing it on the forum then say nothing. We all would appreciate it.

I guess we will all wait in the fetal position until your new book is released, re-written and given away as a free PDF.

Yawn..

BTW....It wasn't an open ended question. I was only expecting a yes or no answer.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[mrshutter45 21]

EVickiW

******


Or take the time to respond to a question that was previously asked by MarkBennett. I asked the same question on January 9th.

Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?



******
Very difficult. You would have to contact the available - and best - witnesses and then approach them with pictures of your suspect, etc. Try Florence Schaffner, some of the passengers perhaps. We're currently running up a package for a guy who lives in Springfield, OR who sat across the aisle from Cooper. If you need their addresses, PM me...that is unless you've already blocked me from PM's because I'm so dangerous. (*laughs*)

Just curious, Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent?

It is a simple question. Answer it.

NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening.

Frankly, some of you can't be trusted. Others I have no problem with. The 'others' group is much larger, fortunately. You may contact me by email, but then I will have to verify your identity and obtain a Confidentiality Agreement from you to release anything. Sorry, but that's the way it goes. Besides, I have to verify certain info.



Then why bring it up in the first place if you do not intend to expand on it? Your response could have been as easy as: Yes....he received it and I have been in contact with him. Or.....No, wrong person.

If you are not comfortable sharing it on the forum then say nothing. We all would appreciate it.

I guess we will all wait in the fetal position until your new book is released, re-written and given away as a free PDF.

Yawn..

BTW....It wasn't an open ended question. I was only expecting a yes or no answer.


not only does he refuse to 'release" anything. he fails to manage his own site that is full of errors for his little KC groupies to believe off of. hundreds and hundreds of people contact him about this case. lol.

lots of true facts, just like DB Cooper the true story lol. I think it's time to make a You Tube channel providing all the false information about his suspect. might even leave a special spot for the filthy comments to be posted.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[EVickiW 0]

RobertMBlevins

Exactly, baby.

Don't worry and be happy.

Edit: I did not see the previous post, only Georger's usual 'let's copy over song lyrics' stuff.

What is the big deal? No one here even suspects that KC could be Cooper. So why keep asking about him? I'm trying to avoid bringing him up, which is why I keep posting on OTHER subjects. I get 20-30 emails a week regarding him already. These days, the last thing I feel like doing is shoving more KC posts onto Dropzone. I say we make an agreement here. No one asks me questions about him, and I won't bring him up anymore.

However, you brought the witness up and then we asked the questions regarding the witness. Then you use the same deflection techniques to bring KC into the conversation. Again, we were asking if the witness received the package...I asked NOTHING about KC. However, I think you realize that.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[mrshutter45 21]

"What is the big deal? No one here even suspects that KC could be Cooper. So why keep asking about him?"


you put this crap on here for years and then whine that people come down on you about KC?

It's because of the way you investigated it, very poorly might I add. you kept pushing and pushing KC after everyone was tired of it. it's time to reverse it. how many times do you think you posted the top 10/25 list? I'll bet 60 to 100 times.


I mean....Really?


I think it's you that people don't trust on here if you ask me!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[EVickiW 0]

RobertMBlevins

Exactly, baby.

Don't worry and be happy.

Edit: I did not see the previous post, only Georger's usual 'let's copy over song lyrics' stuff.

What is the big deal? No one here even suspects that KC could be Cooper. So why keep asking about him? I'm trying to avoid bringing him up, which is why I keep posting on OTHER subjects. I get 20-30 emails a week regarding him already. These days, the last thing I feel like doing is shoving more KC posts onto Dropzone. I say we make an agreement here. No one asks me questions about him, and I won't bring him up anymore.

Okay, to be fair to Vicki...YES the package was sent. I already knew it was going to the right person, since I verified his contact info first. But that's all I'm saying on it.

Good thing I scrolled back..I would have never seen your "re-edited" or "revised" information which does not answer the question anyway.

Can you try to respond directly to somebody without editing one of your prior posts?

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening.

Ok, I'll ask the question....then why are you posting here, Robert? This is a DB Cooper discussion forum. What is to be gained by waiting until your book "Cooperland" comes out? You say it is only going to be tangentially about the Cooper case, but more about the personalities of the folks who follow the case.

So, you find information about the case, but you won't post it. But, you will post about the Seahawks game, your cleaning business your Sci-Fi books and lots of other topics.

You can talk about what you want...but if that's what you want to talk about, why are you doing it here?

[EVickiW 0]

MarkBennett

***

NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening.

Ok, I'll ask the question....then why are you posting here, Robert? This is a DB Cooper discussion forum. What is to be gained by waiting until your book "Cooperland" comes out? You say it is only going to be tangentially about the Cooper case, but more about the personalities of the folks who follow the case.

So, you find information about the case, but you won't post it. But, you will post about the Seahawks game, your cleaning business your Sci-Fi books and lots of other topics.

You can talk about what you want...but if that's what you want to talk about, why are you doing it here?


+1

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

matthewcline

***Jo,

The info that you say came

Quote

Source Unknown - sent to me by a very old aeronautical engineer - I cannot say who he worked for.

is straight word for word in Wikipedia.

***en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
The ability to intercept communications depends on the medium used, be it radio, ... During World War II and through the 1950s, high-frequency ("short-wave") radio was widely used for military and diplomatic communication, and could be ...

377

Another confirmation on a theory.

Matt

Matt you have confirmed ZERO.
I explained it was sent to me by someone else and received after the thread took a positive direction. No need to cause interference with your repeated pattern that is ONLY for the purpose of discrediting anything I say.

I have stayed out of the conversation, but it is things like your post above that inflames me....and causes me to make a rebuttal to defend myself.

I think everyone on here would appreciate you NOT make any remarks to inflame me and cause me to have to make a post like this one.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

MarkBennett

***

NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening.

Ok, I'll ask the question....then why are you posting here, Robert? This is a DB Cooper discussion forum. What is to be gained by waiting until your book "Cooperland" comes out? You say it is only going to be tangentially about the Cooper case, but more about the personalities of the folks who follow the case.

So, you find information about the case, but you won't post it. But, you will post about the Seahawks game, your cleaning business your Sci-Fi books and lots of other topics.

You can talk about what you want...but if that's what you want to talk about, why are you doing it here?


possibly notoriety since he has everything linking to him. when he is not advertising he throws a wrench into everything said on this thread as inaccurate or plain out wrong. then he wants everyone to know that he doesn't really follow the case much in order to make it look as if he can discuss the case standing on his head. his percentage of inaccuracies go off the chart. even with his investigation into KC, but this doesn't stop him from correcting others. anyone see a problem with this?

how many times has Robert said he was leaving the form, or finished with the thread? many times over I believe. then he repeats the same pattern claiming he will not respond to Georger anymore. that's the one up thingy. the guy has issues no doubt.

to date, it's been almost a month since the error's were noticed on his website which he has chosen to ignore, but wants to see proof from others when they speak?????

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

On the other subject: 'Well south of Portland'. Okay, so what? I'm pretty sure by that time Cooper was long gone, since the airstairs indicator light only flashed the one time and then stayed on for good all the way to Reno. So after the point Cooper jumped, the only thing relevant about 305 was that it was an unscheduled flight.

Blevins, You obviously didn't bother to read the post that I quoted and to which I was replying.

Your "so what" above brings up the obvious question of why you even replied to my post in the first place? Or was it just another of your knee-jerk replies to keep up your pretense of being a "leading Cooper researcher"?

Confidentiality Agreements to cover up your own demonstrated incompetence with the KC book? That's the best laugh I have had since lunch.

How much of your forthcoming "Cooperland" masterpiece will you be stealing from DZ and the other posters on this thread? Just asking.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***

On the other subject: 'Well south of Portland'. Okay, so what? I'm pretty sure by that time Cooper was long gone, since the airstairs indicator light only flashed the one time and then stayed on for good all the way to Reno. So after the point Cooper jumped, the only thing relevant about 305 was that it was an unscheduled flight.

Blevins, You obviously didn't bother to read the post that I quoted and to which I was replying.

Your "so what" above brings up the obvious question of why you even replied to my post in the first place? Or was it just another of your knee-jerk replies to keep up your pretense of being a "leading Cooper researcher"?

Confidentiality Agreements to cover up your own demonstrated incompetence with the KC book? That's the best laugh I have had since lunch.

How much of your forthcoming "Cooperland" masterpiece will you be stealing from DZ and the other posters on this thread? Just asking.

Robert99


he also uses the excuse of not trusting people. this has nothing to do with trusting people on this thread. it's a question asked by people who expect answers. it doesn't make sense.

He uses the "source please" every time something comes into question, but ask him about something and it turns into a trust issue. the trust is not in the question asked by someone, it's in the answer! that's trust.

Reality Hotel insert thingy

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

RobertMBlevins

*********

On the other subject: 'Well south of Portland'. Okay, so what? I'm pretty sure by that time Cooper was long gone, since the airstairs indicator light only flashed the one time and then stayed on for good all the way to Reno. So after the point Cooper jumped, the only thing relevant about 305 was that it was an unscheduled flight.

Blevins, You obviously didn't bother to read the post that I quoted and to which I was replying.

Your "so what" above brings up the obvious question of why you even replied to my post in the first place? Or was it just another of your knee-jerk replies to keep up your pretense of being a "leading Cooper researcher"?

Confidentiality Agreements to cover up your own demonstrated incompetence with the KC book? That's the best laugh I have had since lunch.

How much of your forthcoming "Cooperland" masterpiece will you be stealing from DZ and the other posters on this thread? Just asking.

Robert99


he also uses the excuse of not trusting people. this has nothing to do with trusting people on this thread. it's a question asked by people who expect answers. it doesn't make sense.

He uses the "source please" every time something comes into question, but ask him about something and it turns into a trust issue. the trust is not in the question asked by someone, it's in the answer! that's trust.

Reality Hotel insert thingy

This is a public forum. You may not believe it, but MOST people who ask me for this or that go through my email. They don't ask me to post everything up publicly just so THEY can read it here. The confidentiality agreement isn't official. If you are requesting something, then all I ask is for you to put your true name and contact info into the main body of the message and then say you won't post any part of our email communications publicly on the internet.

Then...if you do...I just put your email address on the spam list and leave it at that...and then post up your promise online that came with your email request to show publicly you are a liar. Which would also have your contact info. I would not do this at Dropzone, of course, (it's against the rules) but elsewhere. That is MORE than fair. It also keeps people honest.

Sent to Mitchell: Four pictures and a cover letter. The cover discusses the DB Cooper page at AB and where he can look at the KC report. The fix on the house price is a minor thing and I will get around to it as soon as Webs.com fixes our little access problem. In the cover letter I did not tell Mitchell that KC paid cash-in-full for the house. Mainly it was a request to examine pictures anyway. Pictures have captions and notes on the back.

Stick to the topic then. As you say, per the forum rules you know.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

the questions asked are mostly ones that have history through your thousands of KC postings. now you want to play the confidential game? what ever dude.

seems you had no problems dishing it out, but can't seem to handle the truth of a large portion of your so called evidence.

website down lol good move..

the trust lies with you pal, not the posters asking questions...old school term would be a cop out.


make sure you get the last word in on this!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

skyjack71

******Jo,

The info that you say came

Quote

Source Unknown - sent to me by a very old aeronautical engineer - I cannot say who he worked for.

is straight word for word in Wikipedia.

***en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
The ability to intercept communications depends on the medium used, be it radio, ... During World War II and through the 1950s, high-frequency ("short-wave") radio was widely used for military and diplomatic communication, and could be ...

377

Another confirmation on a theory.

Matt

Matt you have confirmed ZERO.
I explained it was sent to me by someone else and received after the thread took a positive direction. No need to cause interference with your repeated pattern that is ONLY for the purpose of discrediting anything I say.

I have stayed out of the conversation, but it is things like your post above that inflames me....and causes me to make a rebuttal to defend myself.

I think everyone on here would appreciate you NOT make any remarks to inflame me and cause me to have to make a post like this one.

I have confirmed much, and many agree with me.
I hope your health is better.
I truly think you're on a wild goose chase.
I also think your medical issues, and their treatments, are causing you to act irrational, and to an outsider it would give the impression of dementia or other mental illness.

I truly hope 2014 is better for you. I think you could aid that by focusing on health instead of a fiction.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

Here are some simple questions that need a reply of ONLY Yes or No.

1) did KC purchase his home for $16,500
2) do you have proof other than words that Kenny loaned $5,000
3) do you have proof the person who received the loan purchased a home in 1972.
4) does it make sense that Kenny loaned out $5,000 to someone, but couldn't afford his own home for cash.
5) do you think there is a logical explanation why Kenny had so much money towards the end of his life.
6) do you find it odd that Kenny would have trouble with the stairs.
7) did you notice on your website you have a picture of Kenny beside the FBI sketch.
8) did you notice just under the Kenny beside the sketch you show how descriptions can be wrong.
9) do you think Kenny paid $10 for a piece of property.
10) do you find it odd that someone who knows Kenny ID'd the clip but not the black tie he seems to have worn during work?
11) do you have any proof showing Kenny had an expensive stamp/coin collection. (paper trail)
12) do you understand deception can be found in some of the people you trust and call "witnesses"
13) do you have any real proof linking Kenny to being DB Cooper other than what people told you.
14) do you find it odd that Kenny could loan $5,000, but fail to pay off $7,000 in the same time period.
15) do you honestly think Kenny would risk being seen doing this crime.
16) do you think Cooper would have known it was ok to start spending the cash a short time after the crime.


yes/no answers ONLY......

You may pick up your pencil...

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI