DB Cooper

Robert99 · December 3, 2013

RobertMBlevins

Both you and Robert99 have demonstrated a fear of the truth on the Cooper case. You are afraid that Kenny might actually be the hijacker.

And by the way...I never said Kenny was not gay. It was in the original article by Geoff Gray, and covered reasonably well...

Blevins, As I told you several years ago just before blocking your PMs, KC is not a viable candidate for being Cooper for a large number of reasons.

As I remember also, you told me that if KC wasn't Cooper then you didn't know who it could be. Additionally, you also told me at that time that you were considering withdrawing your KC book. Unfortunately, you didn't.

Do you blame snow in Seattle on Geoff Gray? Even if he hasn't mentioned anything about snow there?

You seem to attribute statements to other writers only when you have been caught with egg on your face. Do you know what quotation marks are for and how references to other people's work is handled?

Finally, would you know a "fact" if it bit you in the butt?

Robert99

skyjack71 · December 3, 2013

Quote
Short answer: What is required is hard evidence. Physical
evidence from the crime and/or person. Unimpeachable hard
testable evidence.

If the FBI had asked the right questions to the right people maybe just maybe there would be evidence. If the FBI had told me when I contacted them - to give them the names of people they need to requestion - Maybe there would have been evidence.

Example the girl who worked the garage sale - what did she do with the book that was NOT a book that Duane Told her to SET ASIDE. A book with a hollowed out center with papers in it. What happened to those papers and what happened to that book?

Weber Confessed to the crime - that is something the "others" did NOT do and the "OTHERS" did not come to the surface until "OTHERS" decided there was MONEY & fame in declaring their suspect as Cooper. Jo Weber only spoke with the FBI and friends for several yrs after she contacted the FBI. She looked at, but rejected the offers - WHY? Because she wanted to know the truth!

As for circumstancial Evidence - had the FBI approached Weber in earnest - they might have found evidence. Such as the BANK DEPOSIT box in OMAHA...just proof of its existence would have helped - but Carr said it COULD NOT BE DONE! Well, if the FBI had provided me with the JEFFERSON file I as his wife could have done so. BUT, the FBI chose to deny me the PROOF I needed to prove JOHN C. COLLINS was DUANE L. WEBER. 377 is an attorney - why don't you ask him about this.

I did NOT have the money to pay an ATTORNEY to preserve my right and to go up against the FBI.

Jo WEBER does NOT participate in FRAUD or Fabricate "stuff". SHE has sought the truth since day one, but the FBI provided NO evidence or records to facilitate an earnest search in 1996. The widow as at their mercy. She called and actually endangered her own life contacting one person from Weber's life who threatened her.
The FBI was informed of that contact and what the man said to her.

I do agree there are those who have facilitated and fabricated so called 'proof' their suspect was actually a suspect. I did NOT do that! I have tried to research Weber's past against all odds and risking my integrity and life in the process. Intergrity and honesty are 2 things I judge myself by. Without that - then life is a lie.

Jo Weber has PROMOTED nothing and has not made one red cent off of this - and in the process sacrificed certain aspects of her life - financially and mentally and physically. WHY, because I need to know the truth about the man I spent 17 yrs with. I HELD the proof in my hands in 1994 - but THE DUMB BUNNY I AM - didn't know what I had discoverd just a few months before Weber died.
Damn Me! SO DAMN STUPID!

You are damn right I have used my age & illness because I have nothing left with which to fight the battle. WHY the hell do you think I exposed myself to this thread in 2006. Go back to the first post I made in the first thread. I wanted to know the truths about Weber and who the hell I was married to for 17 yrs. I certainly didn't do this for fame or money! I did not write a book or make a movie! I promote absolutely ZERO and have offered the bulk of anything that could result - to make changes in the penal system. Hoping beyond all hope it might save another man from making drastic decisions and bad decisions that harm the lives of others.

I could care less about the flight path - it means nothing to me and if it did I am not skilled enough to understand it...I have exhausted my life and my livelyhood into doing what I could do. I am not the FBI - I do NOT have their records - INVESTIGATING Weber is what the FBI should have done.

JO is one person and without the funds or skills to have lauched her own investigation other than the way she had done so - enlisting the help of the DZ and others.

Hell, now I am speaking of myself in third person and second person.
I jump from speaking of myself in the second person to the first person or is that a third person also. THIS journey has been COSTLY in terms of my health, my mind and my resources - but I do NOT regret it. IT does make me ANGRY that some individuals think this is just a play ground and it is a hobby with them.

This is a personal JOURNEY for me and it has been costly - but, I do NOT regret the JOURNEY nor the cost. I regret there have been so many Jerks along the way and so many Cooper wannabe's given birth to who did NOT really care about solving the crime. They wanted to hear themselves talk and to created a suspects of their own to benefit financially. THAT was not my goal....THERE have been offers!

Robert99 · December 3, 2013

***

I could care less about the flight path - it means nothing to me and if it did I am not skilled enough to understand it...[
/quote]

Jo, Since you get hysterical when anyone suggests that the airliner did not pass east of Portland (and it didn't), your claim above is nonsense. You do understand that your candidate for Cooper absolutely requires a flight path east of Portland.

I may just be getting jaded, but I am no longer surprised that the people who claim to "just want to know the truth" (Jo and Blevins) are also the same ones who put out about half of the posts on this thread and change their statements as often as is necessary to support their Cooper candidates and to cover up their errors.

Robert99

BruceSmith · December 3, 2013

Report on the Symposium and Ariel

Monday, 8:30 pm. Decemeber 2, 2013.

Just got in from dropping Vicki Wilson off at Sea-Tac. It’s been a wild, long, lovely weekend. Here is my report:

Going back to Friday night, about ten of us went to the Swiss Tavern, one block south of the WSHM and UP THE HILL! Finally Robb Heady and I had a quiet moment to say hello and get a read on how public he wanted to be with his skyjacking past. Robb looked a little overwhelmed, with a blank look on his face, but as we talked he brightened and seemed reassured that I was fine with him saying any and all that he chose to disclose. I was a bit surprised but honored that he was concerned about spilling my scoop on his story, or that any thing he might say would take away from the impact of my book. I assured him that I had utmost confidence in the power of my story, and that the evening – and the weekend – was his to find the most comfortable spot for him to be.

I told him that I thought he had a very special story to tell, and that so far everyone that I knew, such as 377, Georger, Sail and the Cooper crew around Puget Sound were very respectful of him, his story, and his awareness of how he came to skyjack a plane in 1972. I felt proud of our Cooper gang and their level of maturity and compassion. I think Robb took that to heart.

Soon, we were joined at a row of tables by Geoff Gray, Doug Crispin-Kenck and Meyer Louie. I’ve got to say that when they joined us, it was one of the finest moments in my Cooper experience. Everyone told Robb that they wanted to hear his story, to whatever degree that he could tell it. Geoff and Doug also said that they would like him to join the panel discussion at the end of the symposium on Saturday. The level of respect and sensitivity was beautiful.

Robb mulled the invitation and in the course of the evening the request got refined and more defined, and he eventually agreed to a format where he and I would join Geoff on stage and GG would interview us together. It seemed liked an ideal plan, and it worked superbly.

Further down the table, but far enough away to form their own little circle was Mark Bennett, Vicki Wilson, Doug’s Kick-Ass crew, such as Melissa the Super Intern and a couple other student-looking types from Portland. I think a couple folks from the WSHM also stopped by along with a familiar face or two from GG’s talk in the afternoon.

But my little group covered a wide range of topics. Robb expanded on the actual mechanics of his jump, and I realized the whole process of jumping from a 727 is much more complex than anyone has ever discussed before.

Robb said that if DB Cooper was a skilled skydiver, such as he was, he would be best served if he jumped like Robb: Jump from the bottom step, arch your way through the tumble as you encountered the slip-stream – and Robb said his 727 was probably going at 350 mph, so the whole notion of using Cooper metrics didn’t seem so important.

Robb stressed that once you stabilize, you will soon be moving at terminal velocity, about 120 mph, which makes the whole issue of too much stress on parachutes to be mute. Robb jumped with a 24-foot reserve chute that had a round canopy. He wore it under clothes and the flight crew never saw it.

When he jumped, he knew the pilots weren’t following his flight plan and he was far from his intended LZ, so he had to dive toward Washoe Lake and his car and went into a tuck that reached about 220 mph, he estimated. He got to the edge of Washoe Lake, but the western shore and not the eastern one where his car was parked.

Robb pulled at 1,000 feet above the ground as he saw it rush up. He had no goggles and seemed surprised that we asked.

He got really hammered when the chute opened, and since he was so close to the ground he had only about 5 seconds before he hit, too soon to get his bearings.

As it turned out he landed on a highway near the lake shore. Since he was using a reserve and it was sitting on his abdomen, the risers were in front of him and not behind, so he was leaning a little backwards when he hit the ground. As a result he was a little off balance and he fell backwards hard, banging his elbow. The hard landing made it hard to walk, too.

He estimated that he was about two miles away from his car, but it took about six hours to walk there through the woods and not be detected.

He could see the search lights of the cops and he knew he was surrounded and that his gig was up. He was a bit surprised that so many cops showed up so fast since he jumped about ten minutes after take-off.

“They would have gotten me anyway,” Robb said, “even if I had been able to get to my car and drive away. They had road blocks up right away, and they would have interviewed all the skydivers in the area, and my name would have come right up. Then they would have asked me where I was, what I was doing that night, and who could corroborate my alibi. I’m sure they would have found a gap in my story right away. I think most hijackers are like that – they don’t think the whole thing through.”

Robb also said that he spent about three weeks planning his hijacking. He also expanded on his motivations. What I heard was that his world view changed radically because his experiences in Vietnam, and that he felt that all fortunes were made by “committing some crime.” He continued and said that if you didn’t have any money - if you hadn’t made your fortune - then you were a loser and a victim of those who do have great wealth, make the laws, hire the police, form armies and invade countries. So, for Robb, the hijacking was just my way of "getting mine." Getting $200,000 was a good deal compared to robbing a bank and getting eight thousand.

“I don’t feel that way anymore, though,” he told us. Robb seemed world-weary when he shared these insights.

Robb also told us how his life was after serving six years in Lompoc prison. He got a CPA degree, but found it difficult to make a career in the field because of his criminal background. As a result, he formed a business and now owns a parking lot cleaning company and runs two trucks and crew.

Our circle listened attentively and respectfully. It was one of our finest moments.

In addition, Geoff was exceptionally courteous to me, which I valued. I didn’t know how he would receive me with my many words of concern about his behaviors with the FBI in August 2011- the timing of his book, the Marla flap, and his special access to FBI files.

Moving along, Doug surprised me by announcing that he still corresponds with Marla and said that The Blonde One has written her book, which is titled “A Hijacked Heart,” according to Vicki, who checks in with Marla at Facebook. However, it is not in print currently. Maybe soon, though.

Doug also said that Marla has a new guy in her life and he is subsidizing her writing and marketing efforts. Doug also said that TBO is developing contacts in Hollywood and that her story may be heading to the screen.

Speaking of Hollywood, earlier at his talk, Geoff had told us that “Skyjack” has been optioned by CBS for a movie, but he has no idea with how it is going and has only spoken to the scriptwriter once.

“He’s a nice guy, though,” Geoff told us.

Saturday

The opening workshops on Saturday were atrocious, but very telling about what is really going on at the WSHM.

Gwen Perkins opened the festivities and appeared lost and confused. Plus, I found her casual dress unprofessional. But her remarks were even worse. She basically delivered a book report on “The Skies Belong to Us – Love and Tragedy in the Golden Age of Skyjacking,” which I enjoyed when I read it, but it is not central to Norjak.

Gwen has a master’s degree in military history and it showed. She was utterly oblivious to why people were in her audience and what they wanted to hear. No one wanted to hear about the history of airline safety or inconsequential skyjackings in 1955. Rather, everyone wanted to hear the inside scoop on DB Cooper – they wanted the Beef of the Case, sink their teeth into new facts, and get closer to solving it.

But Gwen was undeterred. Even nasty loud remarks from Sail on how ridiculous her presentation was didn’t seem to blunt her focus.

And that obtuse perspective is the hallmark of the COOPER exhibit at the WSHM. It doesn’t touch anything controversial and only presents information that is sanctioned by the FBI.

As bad as Gwen was, Doug Crispin-Kenck was ten times worse. He gave a stand-up comedy routine on Sir Walter Raleigh, and delivered a simplistic and incomplete presentation on the history of tobacco and Raleigh cigarettes. Most disappointingly, Doug failed to mention that Raleighs were a status symbol of Airborne troops in WW II because of a fascinating dynamic in military supply distribution.

Cigarettes were given free to all troops in large quantities by the manufacturers, and the Navy personnel who shipped them to theaters of war got first pick. They took Camels.

Then, the Army drivers who drove the freight trucks to regional distribution warehouses near the front took the Lucky Strikes.

Locals invariably got their hands in there at this point, snagged the Pall Malls, and by the time cigarettes made their way to the front lines, where the best troops were positioned, such as the 101st Airborne Division, all that was left were the cheap, stinky Raleighs. Thus, the dregs of the tobacco industry became an identifying icon for airborne troopers, just like bloused trousers.

Robb confirmed this characterization in private talks, and it has been told sublimely in the book, “Band of Brothers,” the story of Company C of the 101st Airborne during WW II.

Doug was clueless, though, and his hamming bluster from the stage was exceptionally offensive.

When Crispin-Kenck finished, Sail was so upset he was choking. I thought he was about to have a stroke. Fortunately his wife was sitting next to him, and calmed him a bit. To further relieve his distress, and everyone’s outrage over the stupidity of the previous two hours, I assured our little circle of Meyer, Sail, Sails’ wife, Vicki and a few others that they just had a personal experience of being part of a spin job, and that the tragically lame presentations were probably a purposeful effort from the Powers That Be to tamp down interest in the DB Cooper case. After sitting through the first half of the symposium, no one in the audience would want to confront the King Country Sheriff’s Office on the current status of the Earl Cossey homicide, or ask anyone at WSHM why they never mentioned Coss’ murder. An oversight? Hardly. Intentional? I think so, but since no one at the WSHM talks to me maybe someone else should discuss the Cossey issue with them.

Maybe the next time Doug talks about cigarettes he will simply say that the fact that Cooper smoked Raleighs may mean that he was a seasoned trooper of the 82nd or 101st Airborne.

After the debacle of the first half, we went to see a Cooper re-enactor.

He was terrible, and didn’t care much about America’s only unsolved skyjacking. He didn’t even shave his beard for his 20-minute presentation, held on the aft stairs in the exhibit. Our Cooper crew should have dragged him into the bathroom and shaved him clean. He should also lose about thirty pounds, as he was far above Cooper’s 175. He should also read a book about DB Cooper and learn the interesting details on his character, such as some of Cooper’s idiosyncratic lingo – “No Funny Stuff or I’ll do the job.”

Gawd, if Danny C was in the audience he probably would have done the job right there in the exhibit.

After a lovely indoor picnic provided by Meyer, we headed back for panel discussions. First up were two very experienced skydivers from I-Fly of Tukwila.

The first to speak was John Mitchell, who learned how to skydive in Salt Lake City. He pursued that lead and talked mostly about Richard McCoy, which was disappointing as I was hoping for a more detailed analysis of DB Cooper and his jump.

Nevertheless, it was good to hear confirmation that McCoy had about 40 jumps under his belt before he hijacked his plane in April 1972. Even though Mitchell had personal knowledge of McCoy, most of us in the audience knew more about the McCoy skyjack than he did. Sail was really worked up with this further disappointment and really hammered the skydivers with questions about pull-offs from the stairs.

However. Robb loved having kindred spirits in the auditorium and beamed.

Next up was Rick Mangan, who struck closer to home and said that he skydived at Issaquah and knew Earl Cossey. However, he overstated the nature of his relationship with Coss, and when I questioned him about Cossey pronouncements of owning the chutes and the NB-6- slash NB-8 controversy, he appeared flustered.

However, they had an NB-6 with them and showed us the little pouch that the rip cord handle fits into, and it showed the ludicrous nature of Cossey’s comments to me that his modification to the NB-8 that Cooper used would have a rip cord too hidden for a whuffo like DBC to find the rip cord handle. Total BS.

Mangan and Mitchell also confirmed that many skydivers have jumped naked from altitudes of at least 14,000 feet, so the notion of jumping in November in freezing temps is not too extreme.

They also talked about waiting until terminal velocity and then pulling was preferable to pulling-off the aft stairs and entering the slip stream at 200 mph.

Then it was show time for Robb and me. Robb was superb, and Geoff was the exquisite host. Robb spoke for about 20 minutes and the room was as still as choir basement at midnight. He gave a synopsis of all that he has shared before, plus a detailed assessment of PTSD and the dynamics of his time in Vietnam, including the callous treatment he received from his command when he suffered from malaria and had a critical loss of red blood cells.

As for me, Geoff asked me to speak about a range of topics and we covered some great stuff – where is the case going, the money find, and flight path.

I had a great time and am very grateful to Geoff for inviting me to speak in such a public venue.

Thank you, Geoffella.

Afterwards, it was off to Ariel. Robb drove me and Vicki down in his rental car. We talked the whole time, and Robb got really animated about baseball and Jack Reacher novels. We had a great time.

Details tomorrow…..

skyjack71 · December 3, 2013

377

Meanwhile the diversions and distractions from the suspect marketeers here have some entertainment value if nothing else. I just can't get too worked up about them. It's pretty harmless in my view.

377

Nice to know YOU have been entertained! Entertainment is NOT part of my vocabulary, but finding the truth about Weber/Cooper is.

My story is first hand and not fabricated as some seem to attest to.
There has been no fabrication, but lots of exploration into reasoning and cause and results.

The efforts of the contributors to this thread has aided and hindered, but every fragment of the past that comes my way regarding Weber is important and worthy of exploring.

The Jefferson pics and files are the highlights of what the thread has produced...Thanks to Mrshutter. It was the one thing others and myself had spent a lot of time trying to obtain and something even the FBI would NOT give me access to.

The FBI not producing that file - is a puzzle and actually leads me to believe the FBI was concealing something - One has to wonder WHY! ????

Snowmman produced something none of you are even aware of and I would love to meet him or to at least know who he REALLY was. He seems to have been forgotten lately and I wish him well.

georger · December 3, 2013

RobertMBlevins

******

I could care less about the flight path - it means nothing to me and if it did I am not skilled enough to understand it...[
/quote]

Jo, Since you get hysterical when anyone suggests that the airliner did not pass east of Portland (and it didn't), your claim above is nonsense. You do understand that your candidate for Cooper absolutely requires a flight path east of Portland.

I may just be getting jaded, but I am no longer surprised that the people who claim to "just want to know the truth" (Jo and Blevins) are also the same ones who put out about half of the posts on this thread and change their statements as often as is necessary to support their Cooper candidates and to cover up their errors.

Robert99

More baloney. If you believe the flight path was WEST of Portland...then PROVE it. The map the FBI still keeps on their website says otherwise. In other words, put up or forever hold your peace.

Check-in Time at the Reality Hotel: The Citizen Sleuths concluded that the flight path forwarded by the FBI was correct. There is also the map, which says Flight 305 did NOT pass over Tena Bar. Just because you say it did, doesn't make it so.

And by the way, claiming you 'want to know the truth' (as you quoted me as saying) is NOT a bad thing.

And You have whined More baloney so many times, while
producing nothing but snarling nonsense and total fabrications
yourself, you have no Credibility whatever.

Yours is a howling in the dessert.

I crown thee - Sir Blev-a-lot.

georger · December 3, 2013

BruceSmith
Report on the Symposium and Ariel

Monday, 8:30 pm. Decemeber 2, 2013.

Just got in from dropping Vicki Wilson off at Sea-Tac. It’s been a wild, long, lovely weekend. Here is my report:

Going back to Friday night, ...

. . .

I had a great time and am very grateful to Geoff for inviting me to speak in such a public venue.

Thank you, Geoffella.

Afterwards, it was off to Ariel. Robb drove me and Vicki down in his rental car. We talked the whole time, and Robb got really animated about baseball and Jack Reacher novels. We had a great time.

Details tomorrow…..

Snipped above but means no disrespect Bruce. This is a pretty
good report. I have similar reports from reps who were there
(to satisfy Blev-a-lot and Weber's curiosity) ...

You attribute the paucity in exhibits and symposia presentations
to ... tight control from the gods who control Cooperland ? I see
another cause, the same old cause, raising its ugly persistent
head again ... ie a lack in hard info about the crime, that
ordinary people can process and make connections with. Plus,
no new media driven information has been added in the last
year or more -

This would be hard info from the FBI and from the better
researchers, and not knowing what to do or how to connect
with the info that does exist makes it difficult to "present"
anything. I could elaborate. Note Tom gave a talk earlier ...
but while well given and received it seems to have fallen on
deaf ears, for lack of vital connecting tissue...

It's that Cooper 'vacuum' again! (not some gods controlling the
fates of mortals).

Does this make sense from your perspective, my take on this?

Thanks for a nice report -

G.

skyjack71 · December 3, 2013

Robert99
***

I could care less about the flight path - it means nothing to me and if it did I am not skilled enough to understand it...[
/quote]

Jo, Since you get hysterical when anyone suggests that the airliner did not pass east of Portland (and it didn't), your claim above is nonsense. You do understand that your candidate for Cooper absolutely requires a flight path east of Portland.

I may just be getting jaded, but I am no longer surprised that the people who claim to "just want to know the truth" (Jo and Blevins) are also the same ones who put out about half of the posts on this thread and change their statements as often as is necessary to support their Cooper candidates and to cover up their errors.

Robert99

DO not get hysterical - just contradicts what the Co-pilot told me. As long at the path has some reasonability for Cooper to have landed near the areas Duane mentioned and for him to have had access to reach certain area.
I definitely do NOT know were Cooper landed. I just know the places Duane spoke about and showed me. The little senario I wrote about what I thougt - means nothing....it was places he talked about and places he took me.

You can bet if Cooper landed WEST of Battleground or WEST or near La Center - there are witnesses who will put you to shame that are still living.

If it makes you feel better - Duane told me about a cemetary not to far from La Center and he also told me about Paradise Park and Toutle ,

It is a given the placard landed near Toutle and that Cooper could have landed between Amboy and Chelatchie. He could also have landed closer to Yale which would explain the Yale/Cougar siting.

Even there the would have walked east and away from where they would be looking for him.He still went right back at them, but without the package - and with a change of closes he was ok.

TOO many WITNESS - claimed the plane was over head an Below as it approached and area just BELOW Amboy. If anything Cooper was headed to a car left at Homan or another area near there. You are NOT aware that where the Pomerory Living Farms are located was an excellent place for Cooper to land. but once on land it was Go EAST Young man.

I didn't get to all of the places,One palace had 4 witness's I he jumped at taht poing then ther put him drifiting To tired to talk about somehtin I know little I no about.

I am falling asleep on the computer'
FbY seeya later. HE still spent a night neaf at a tower off of Basketflight Road

BruceSmith · December 3, 2013

georger
***Report on the Symposium and Ariel

Monday, 8:30 pm. Decemeber 2, 2013.

Just got in from dropping Vicki Wilson off at Sea-Tac. It’s been a wild, long, lovely weekend. Here is my report:

Going back to Friday night, ...

. . .

I had a great time and am very grateful to Geoff for inviting me to speak in such a public venue.

Thank you, Geoffella.

Afterwards, it was off to Ariel. Robb drove me and Vicki down in his rental car. We talked the whole time, and Robb got really animated about baseball and Jack Reacher novels. We had a great time.

Details tomorrow…..

Snipped above but means no disrespect Bruce. This is a pretty
good report. I have similar reports from reps who were there
(to satisfy Blev-a-lot and Weber's curiosity) ...

You attribute the paucity in exhibits and symposia presentations
to ... tight control from the gods who control Cooperland ? I see
another cause, the same old cause, raising its ugly persistent
head again ... ie a lack in hard info about the crime, that
ordinary people can process and make connections with. Plus,
no new media driven information has been added in the last
year or more -

This would be hard info from the FBI and from the better
researchers, and not knowing what to do or how to connect
with the info that does exist makes it difficult to "present"
anything. I could elaborate. Note Tom gave a talk earlier ...
but while well given and received it seems to have fallen on
deaf ears, for lack of vital connecting tissue...

It's that Cooper 'vacuum' again! (not some gods controlling the
fates of mortals).

Does this make sense from your perspective, my take on this?

Thanks for a nice report -

G.

Was the WSHM-based symposium a lame affair because the organizers were clueless in Seattle, or because of other dynamics, such as a dearth of substantive information and facts?

I say no. Plus the debacle in Tacoma begs bigger questions: why was such inadequacy tolerated? We have basic crapola going on with this exhibit in all areas

Besides one of the prime curators, Gwen What’s-her-name schlepping around like she wished she was somewhere else and didn't have professional attire to wear, her partner in creating the exhibit, Fred Poynter, didn't even show up! Plus, when I talked with Gwen and her associates, such as Susan Rohrer, and introduced myself, they had no clue who I was despite my many unanswered emails and phone calls to them, even when I reminded them that they stole part of their exhibit from me off the Mountain News (two pix - one of the rigging card and one of Norman).

Further, didn't Gwen and her crew even care their re-enactor had a beard? Geez.

And Doug spent 30 minutes giving us a campy historical rendition of the tobacco industry? Hunh? What was that about? Doug couldn't find any cool Cooper stuff to talk about, so he was forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel and make unfunny jokes about a 15th Century tobacco merchant? I don't think so.

Maybe Doug Crispin-Kenck is just a misguided historian who really wishes he was a stand-up comic working Vegas? Maybe. So, why doesn't someone buy him a Greyhound ticket to the comedy club of his choice and say goodbye to the Kick-Ass travesty that has no kick and ought to avoid all butts, unless they're Raleighs with 42 year-old dried saliva on them.

And if a presenting parachute expert says he is a good friend of Earl Cossey, then he better be ready to talk about his buddy's murder.

And if another presenter wants to talk about Richard McCoy at a DB Cooper symposium, he ought to know the exact airport where McCoy exchanged his passengers for half a mil (San Francisco and not LAX) and how much the duffle of money really weighed. Hint, it wasn't 70 pounds.

The real question is why people chose to not adequately educate themselves when they agree to talk to the public about a major crime, and why professional historians accept their ineptitude.

georger · December 3, 2013

BruceSmith
******Report on the Symposium and Ariel

Monday, 8:30 pm. Decemeber 2, 2013.

Just got in from dropping Vicki Wilson off at Sea-Tac. It’s been a wild, long, lovely weekend. Here is my report:

Going back to Friday night, ...

. . .

I had a great time and am very grateful to Geoff for inviting me to speak in such a public venue.

Thank you, Geoffella.

Afterwards, it was off to Ariel. Robb drove me and Vicki down in his rental car. We talked the whole time, and Robb got really animated about baseball and Jack Reacher novels. We had a great time.

Details tomorrow…..

Snipped above but means no disrespect Bruce. This is a pretty
good report. I have similar reports from reps who were there
(to satisfy Blev-a-lot and Weber's curiosity) ...

You attribute the paucity in exhibits and symposia presentations
to ... tight control from the gods who control Cooperland ? I see
another cause, the same old cause, raising its ugly persistent
head again ... ie a lack in hard info about the crime, that
ordinary people can process and make connections with. Plus,
no new media driven information has been added in the last
year or more -

This would be hard info from the FBI and from the better
researchers, and not knowing what to do or how to connect
with the info that does exist makes it difficult to "present"
anything. I could elaborate. Note Tom gave a talk earlier ...
but while well given and received it seems to have fallen on
deaf ears, for lack of vital connecting tissue...

It's that Cooper 'vacuum' again! (not some gods controlling the
fates of mortals).

Does this make sense from your perspective, my take on this?

Thanks for a nice report -

G.

Was the WSHM-based symposium a lame affair because the organizers were clueless in Seattle, or because of other dynamics, such as a dearth of substantive information and facts?

I say no. Plus the debacle in Tacoma begs bigger questions: why was such inadequacy tolerated? We have basic crapola going on with this exhibit in all areas

Besides one of the prime curators, Gwen What’s-her-name schlepping around like she wished she was somewhere else and didn't have professional attire to wear, her partner in creating the exhibit, Fred Poynter, didn't even show up! Plus, when I talked with Gwen and her associates, such as Susan Rohrer, and introduced myself, they had no clue who I was despite my many unanswered emails and phone calls to them, even when I reminded them that they stole part of their exhibit from me off the Mountain News (two pix - one of the rigging card and one of Norman).

Further, didn't Gwen and her crew even care their re-enactor had a beard? Geez.

And Doug spent 30 minutes giving us a campy historical rendition of the tobacco industry? Hunh? What was that about? Doug couldn't find any cool Cooper stuff to talk about, so he was forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel and make unfunny jokes about a 15th Century tobacco merchant? I don't think so.

Maybe Doug Crispin-Kenck is just a misguided historian who really wishes he was a stand-up comic working Vegas? Maybe. So, why doesn't someone buy him a Greyhound ticket to the comedy club of his choice and say goodbye to the Kick-Ass travesty that has no kick and ought to avoid all butts, unless they're Raleighs with 42 year-old dried saliva on them.

And if a presenting parachute expert says he is a good friend of Earl Cossey, then he better be ready to talk about his buddy's murder.

And if another presenter wants to talk about Richard McCoy at a DB Cooper symposium, he ought to know the exact airport where McCoy exchanged his passengers for half a mil (San Francisco and not LAX) and how much the duffle of money really weighed. Hint, it wasn't 70 pounds.

The real question is why people chose to not adequately educate themselves when they agree to talk to the public about a major crime, and why professional historians accept their ineptitude.

Do you think the $10 buck entrance fee denied the public
access as Blev-a-lot claims?

What "rules" (Blevins claim) screwed things up? What "rules" is
Blevins talking about?

Bruce, maybe there aren't that many real experts on the Cooper
case anymore? It sounds like people who do know something
about the case weren't part of the presentation ? (Tom gave a
talk and Geoff was there...)

It sounds like you are saying the wrong people were in charge
of this.

I will say I have a report that there were some good private
side discussions between people who didn't announce
themselves and werent part of the program ...

MarkBennett · December 3, 2013

georger

Do you think the $10 buck entrance fee denied the public
access as Blev-a-lot claims?

I think that $10 claim is a bit misleading. Not sure where the $10 came from, but I paid $15 for Geoff's talk on Friday, the symposium and access to the exhibit. The really was for access to the exhibit, so it's unfair to say that was a charge for the symposium.

I saved the program from the 2011 symposium and the difference in presenters was striking.

377
Geoff
Doug Crispen-Kenck (although his presentation was the same type as this year)
Ron and Pat Foreman
Marla Cooper

plus, Himmelsbach was scheduled to attend, but declined due to illness.
Brian Ingram was there and answered questions.
Jerry Thomas was there and severed on a panel discussion at the end.
Bruce was there, although he didn't present.

There was just a lot of Cooper talent there -- in the audience and on stage. There may be a couple of others, but I don't have my program here so I'm doing it from memory (not memory from 2011, but from looking at the program last night).

The dearth of informed speakers was the real problem. So, RobertMBlevins, I see you confronting the same problem if you try to hold an event in Auburn. Who can you get to come? And, not trying to be confrontational, but only raise a point, but you've burned a lot of bridges here and might have a hard time getting some local people to show up.

sailshaw · December 3, 2013

Bruce: Your comment is just not true

You say:
"But Gwen was undeterred. Even nasty loud remarks from Sail on how ridiculous her presentation was didn’t seem to blunt her focus."

I did not say anything to Gwen as I could not understand her because she mumbled and did not use the microphone correctly. Your statement is totally false and is not like the Bruce I have come to know.

When we were at lunch with our small group (Gwen not there) I did mention that the first two hours were a waste of time and hoped the afternoon would improve and it did.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

'

Trader Feedback · December 3, 2013

It is beyond dispute that FAA ATC radar can paint echoes of jumpers exiting aircraft. Guru (a skydiver and jumpship pilot) has confirmed it. I talked at length with a skydiver and jumpship pilot whose day job is an FAA controller. He confirmed it also and said that many times he could accurately count the number of jumpers who had exited. Ranges where jumpers were painted by ATC radar were in the 20-40 mile range but nobody really knew the outer limit. The ATC guy I spoke with said unless a controller had a DZ in his area he might not know that his radar was capable of this or even recognize a jumper echo if he saw it.

Laymen think only metal gives a good radar reflection Not so. Objects with differing densities from air generate echoes. Birds are not radar stealthy at all. Tuna boats use S Band "Bird Radars" just to see them at a distance. Birds swarming at sea over a stationary spot are often feeding on baitfish which attract tuna. I have seen many birds on fishing boat radar displays. It's very common. A jumper is a far better radar target than a bird.

There are two kinds of radar data:

1. Raw video (actual recordings of echo signals and a track with azimuth data to record antenna position).

2. Processed video (what is displayed on the radar screen) which is often "cleaned up" by various filtering techniques to remove noise, clutter and to facilitate the insertion of alphanumeric data next to the target echoes.

Raw data from FAA ATC radar is usually recorded (on tape back in 1971).

It was SOP even in 1971 to preserve raw radar recordings after an aviation accident/incident where radar might provide useful evidence. It is hard to believe that this was not done after NORJACK, especially when there was such intense interest in the flight path. Is it possible that the FBI and FAA just looked at the airliner track and never thought to scrutinize the raw video for a telltale jumper exit echo? Might the tape still exist?

Originally I held out great hope that the SAGE networked radar system would have displayed Cooper's exit echo. Snow put me in touch with a group of retired SAGE operators and technicians and also directed me to rich sources of technical data on the SAGE system architecture.

I corresponded with several SAGE techs who told me that it was very unlikely that the SAGE display would have showed Cooper's exit echo because the display blanked out a rectangular area immediately surrounding a target to provide a clean image and to insert alphanumeric data. SAGE terminal display data was recorded on 35 MM film but I could find nothing that mentioned SAGE's preservation of raw radar data from the various networked sites.

It's frustrating to think that the FAA may have had evidence of Cooper's exit point and never thought to look for it. You probably could have even determined whether Cooper did a stair pull, hop and pop or freefall by looking at forward speed decay by analysing the rate of separation between the 727 and the jumper echo.

Maybe somewhere, deep in that Raiders of the Lost Ark govt warehouse, lies a reel of magnetic recording tape with proof positive as to where Cooper exited.

By now there is a good possibility that the magnetic recording iron oxide is flaking off the plastic tape but I am an optimist.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Robert99 · December 3, 2013

RobertMBlevins
******

I could care less about the flight path - it means nothing to me and if it did I am not skilled enough to understand it...[
/quote]

Jo, Since you get hysterical when anyone suggests that the airliner did not pass east of Portland (and it didn't), your claim above is nonsense. You do understand that your candidate for Cooper absolutely requires a flight path east of Portland.

I may just be getting jaded, but I am no longer surprised that the people who claim to "just want to know the truth" (Jo and Blevins) are also the same ones who put out about half of the posts on this thread and change their statements as often as is necessary to support their Cooper candidates and to cover up their errors.

Robert99

More baloney. If you believe the flight path was WEST of Portland...then PROVE it. The map the FBI still keeps on their website says otherwise. In other words, put up or forever hold your peace.

Check-in Time at the Reality Hotel: The Citizen Sleuths concluded that the flight path forwarded by the FBI was correct. There is also the map, which says Flight 305 did NOT pass over Tena Bar. Just because you say it did, doesn't make it so.

And by the way, claiming you 'want to know the truth' (as you quoted me as saying) is NOT a bad thing.

Blevins, In you haste to be the "first responder" to posts by others, you apparently only glance at those posts before going into your KC defense mode. And that is certainly the case here.

Starting with your last sentence above, your reply suggests that I don't want to know the "truth" and that I am implying that the "truth" is a bad thing. What I actually said is that people (such as you and Jo) who claim to seek only the "truth" and then go out of their way to deny anything and everything that contradicts their version of the "truth" in order to keep their Cooper stories alive, are drags on solving the Cooper hijacking.

Flooding the Cooper thread with fairy tales about KC and Jo's claims of what a great man Duane was and all the people he knew and the famous crimes he participated in do not add any validity to your posts. They are and remain pure bunk.

Now to the umpteenth discussion of the so-called "FBI Maps" which both the FBI and Himmelsbach apparently have stated they don't know where the maps came from.

Blevins has claimed knowledge that NWA prepared those maps. But as is his usual case, Blevins doesn't have any proof to support his claim. Nor does he have any proof that the maps were actually for NWA 305.

NEVERTHELESS, somewhere out there in Cooperland and probably on Sluggo's web page, is a copy of a map that indicates a segmented track on the west side of Portland. That particular map by itself disproves the claims of Blevins and Jo that the airliner DID NOT pass on the WEST side of Portland. Assuming, of course, that the so-called FBI maps represent the flight track of NWA 305.

But Blevins and Jo must continue to favor a flight path on the EAST side of Portland in order to keep their Cooper candidate stories alive. So this matter will continue to have a life of its own.

Robert99

sailshaw · December 3, 2013

Bruce:

You said: "But Gwen was undeterred. Even nasty loud remarks from Sail on how ridiculous her presentation was didn’t seem to blunt her focus."

I say: " At the Symposium you overheard what I was saying to my wife who sat to my left and you sat just in front of me".

However: What I said was not loud enough for Gwen to hear up on the stage or she would have talked into the mic and stopped mumbling. What I told my wife was that the presenter was mumbling and not correctly talking into the microphone. My hearing is typical for a person who worked in the aircraft industry for 34 years and will be 80 years old next year. We talk louder because our own voice does not sound too loud. My wife agrees with you that you could have heard my voide but not the presenter.

So, the "nasty loud remarks" were only heard by you and my wife. I am sorry you had to hear me, it was only intended for my wife. I don't think the remarks were nasty anyway and certainly not like those we see here in the DZ. Did you hear the nasty remarks to my wife I made about you when you were on the stage in the afternoon? I don't think so as you did a great job of making the too short afternoon session interesting.

Thanks Bruce for your report and I will guard my information better in the future knowing that I do talk louder to my wife.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

georger · December 3, 2013

RobertMBlevins

My offer to shift sci-fi to Cooper for next August at the Auburn Ave Theater has a limited window of opportunity. Without interest, I will gladly do the free sci-fi (and one other) film festival. I have to be CONVINCED, otherwise it is a no-go. We usually start planning meetings in January, and I am expected to present the general program for the theater at that time. Yes, they give us a modest budget.

Just saying.

Proposed sci-fi and other films for 2014 at the theater, biggest vote-getters, from suggestions:

Blade Runner - Director's Cut

Wild in the Streets

Animal House - Double Secret Probation Edition

Trust me. I am okay with this completely unless otherwise convinced something is better.

Remember? Sluggo called it the 'malady of central position'.

Blevins, In your haste to be the "first responder" chasing all
fires and emergency responder events . . . what on Earth
makes you qualified or even personally popular enough ... to be
"central position" with regard to any Cooper event, much less
a convention or symposium or gathering of people intelligent
and informed enough to be able to discuss the Cooper case,
with some hope of a positive outcome?

Moreover, you claim to be speaking for the people and officials
in Auburn, Washington ... which I happen to know you do not
speak for! [We know a few of those people. They never heard
of a RobertMBlevins!] You once boldly claimed that Auburn was
the birthplace of AIM - you are still living down that shameless
assertion, which is just one bogus claim of hundreds of your
bogus claims!

Geoff Gray can organise and get people to gather because of
who he is. You surely cannot claim a similar 'central position' ?

The FBI could get people to gather because of who they are.
Surely you are not claiming a similar 'central position', or are
you ?

You keep telling the world to "Check In At Reality Hotel'.
When if ever will you be checking into Reality Hotel ?

In fact, why should anyone read your posts at all? They are all
the same thing, which is: ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!

Are you a little like Jo Weber when it comes to personal
credibility?

Very likely, Mr. Blevins, people will just demur from
attending any Cooper event organised around - YOU - ME!
ME! ME!. But it did give you 500 posts at Dropzone clear
into next year!

Howza Gayla ?

BruceSmith · December 3, 2013

sailshaw
Bruce:

You said: "But Gwen was undeterred. Even nasty loud remarks from Sail on how ridiculous her presentation was didn’t seem to blunt her focus."

I say: " At the Symposium you overheard what I was saying to my wife who sat to my left and you sat just in front of me".

However: What I said was not loud enough for Gwen to hear up on the stage or she would have talked into the mic and stopped mumbling. What I told my wife was that the presenter was mumbling and not correctly talking into the microphone. My hearing is typical for a person who worked in the aircraft industry for 34 years and will be 80 years old next year. We talk louder because our own voice does not sound too loud. My wife agrees with you that you could have heard my voide but not the presenter.

So, the "nasty loud remarks" were only heard by you and my wife. I am sorry you had to hear me, it was only intended for my wife. I don't think the remarks were nasty anyway and certainly not like those we see here in the DZ. Did you hear the nasty remarks to my wife I made about you when you were on the stage in the afternoon? I don't think so as you did a great job of making the too short afternoon session interesting.

Thanks Bruce for your report and I will guard my information better in the future knowing that I do talk louder to my wife.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

BruceSmith · December 3, 2013

Quote
"...Do you think the $10 buck entrance fee denied the public
access as Blev-a-lot claims?

What "rules" (Blevins claim) screwed things up? What "rules" is
Blevins talking about?

Bruce, maybe there aren't that many real experts on the Cooper
case anymore? It sounds like people who do know something
about the case weren't part of the presentation ? (Tom gave a
talk and Geoff was there...)

It sounds like you are saying the wrong people were in charge
of this.

I will say I have a report that there were some good private
side discussions between people who didn't announce
themselves and werent part of the program ..."

Reply:

Yes, there were many wonderful side conversations at the Symposium, and that is a hallmark of these kinds of gatherings. No matter how sucky the official presentations may be, the side chatter afterwards may be worth the price of admission, and that was certainly the case in Tacoma this past weekend.

In short, indure the drek and savor the sweetness in the hallways and the Swiss Tavern.

Also, I acknowledge the fact that my loud, opinionated, and arrogant nature often keeps the quiet folks beyond my ears. Alas, it is the price of being me, I guess, and is grist for the mill that I grind with my psychoanalyst.

No, I don't think the ten dollar admission fee, nor ten dollar parking, kept anyone from attending. The lack of a program brochure announcing the specifics of who was talking and when, was much more of a deterrrent to people showing up and paying some money.

The Tacoma News Tribune called me days before the Symposium and asked if I could arrange for them to interview Robb. I was a bit surprised that they had gotten wind of his plans to attend, so clearly info is swirling around in the back hallways of news rooms and museums.

The TNT should have been calling the WSHM for that kind of access, and the WSHM could have called me to assist, as well. Clearly, the marketing division of the WSHM needs help beyond the young cutey voice that called me months ago seeking Cooper exhibit publicity on the Mountain News.

Yes, there aren't many true experts in Cooper World, those who have a comprehensive and substantive knowledge of the case. In fact, the irony of our era is that many of the folks sitting in the audience are better informed about the case than the people on the stage. Further, those audience folks are moving in the direction of enacting an end-run around the FBI and their Norjak investigation. We may truly solve the case before the FBI does.

Further, why does the FBI repeatedly refuse to show up at Cooper Symposiums (2011 and 2013) (Symposii)? That should be a topic to discuss from the stage at the next symposium!

Here's my view on the principals who could be involved in the next symposium.

Geoff is truly gifted. He is smart, sensitive and well-connected. However, I don't know his true agenda and interest in the case, as I have stated in many places. I like him and I am grateful to him for his many courtesies to me, but I don't fully trust him.

Doug is a nice guy who can't deliver. One-on-one he is a solid guy, but as an organizer and researcher he doesn't have what it takes. When he gets a microphone in his hands he acts like a jerk.

WSHM staff are bureaucratic functionaries. Poynter is the smartest. With proper supervision he could be a real assest in developing a Cooper Symposium worth attending. The rest can do the xeroxing and coffee runs.

Tom Kaye and the CS team seem to be busy elsewhere. I don't see them organizing anything, but they are certainly valueable presenters.

Who's left? You? Me? Galen? Coast to Coast radio? 60 minutes? The Cooper case needs more muscle in the symposium development arena, and maybe that is the next dimension to arise from the average joes and janes in Cooper World.

We need more independent professionals who can convince Larry Carr, John Detlor, Al Di and others to come out of the wood work and "get 'er done."

BruceSmith · December 3, 2013

I have an update on Twisty Butt.

According to Vicki, who sources this information to Facebook, Marla has finished her book, titled:

"DB's Niece - The Hijacked Heart in my Head."

It appears to be quite voluminous - 100,000 words and over 400 pages. Not currently available in paper. Not sure about e-editions.

On a professional level, I think Marla is quite clever to state her case as a personal memoir of what she remembers and how it affected her. She may do very well with this book, movie, docu, etc.....

skyjack71 · December 4, 2013

Having problems seeing the screen lately so reading the post is difficult.
Don't know if it is the medications or the other problems going on. In just a 3 wk period of time - the screen has become very difficult to read.

At first I thought the DZ had changed something, but then I noticed when I make a right turn in my car I am cutting the corner. Calling the eye doctor tomorrow for a quick look at my eyes - just had them examined about 6 months ago.

At any rate after reading all of the mumbo jumbo and bickering about opinions of who said what - glad I did not attempt to go nor was I invited. Beside everyone KNOWS I freeze in a crowd. Actually I go silent - surprised!

As VOCAL and LOUD as I get in the thread one would think otherwise. I hate crowds and do NOT speak publically other than in this thread.

When I TALK (vocalize) it is in ONE on ONE conversations. That is my LIMIT.

Seems from all of the postings that the symposium was NOT fruitful. If it was filled with misnomers - it is a waste of resources. Sound more like it was exchanges of a lot of inaccurate information and propaganda.

To anyone who is INTERESTED - JO WEBER does NOT give a HOOT were the plane was. I only tell what I know and what was told to me.

What Duane said - the places he talked about, the places he took me too - that is all I know. That would be the trip in 1979.

2001 with a documentary crew - who did not know the area...and had NO clue of the places I described nor time to investigate.

2010 - a 15 day trip by myself and rented a car for 14 days. That one was the eye opener.

Outside of this - is ALL I know other than the things I discovered about Weber in these 17 yrs....things he did NOT tell me.

I truely wish I was able to make another trip - but that will not be possible. I actually do not have much more to add and to those who think anything I have told depends on any of the proposed fight paths - as I said I know nothing about this and how it affects where Cooper landed or didn't land other than what has been proposed in this thread.

Has become too difficult and tedious for me to try to sort out all of the mumbo jumbo that has been exchanged over the yrs.

Regardless of the out come any of this has - I do want Duane's ashes dropped from a plane over the areas he told me so much about and the areas he took me to. For SOME REASON they were important to him.

I nor anyone else may ever know the answers and what I do have that NO ONE else has - is his confession.

Only my EARS heard it - but I cannot imagine anyone confessing to something they did NOT do - when DEATH was just around the corner.
When he told me - he had just removed himself from the machine and I was told he would pass in 5 days. I forget now how many days it took him to expire, but I have the old records of his hospital stays and the note I made in my planner as I sat by his bedside.

Before I could rattle off the dates and the times - but NO MORE. I am tired.

I have given it all I had to give and more. He has to KNOW I have NO more to give. I am very tired and it has become tedious and very tiring to continue to fight a battle I cannot win.

I TRIED! I HAVE NO MORE TO GIVE!
like the song he sang to me on our wedding night. YOU"LL NEVER KNOW IF YOU DON'T KNOW NOW

I have told all I know and I refuse to MAKE - UP stuff to satisfy those who want it to be more than what it really is.

I WOULD APPRECIATE IF NO COMMENTS WHERE MADE ABOUT THIS POST. IF YOU WISH TO EXCHANGE PERSONAL EMAILS AND DEMEAN ME - PLEASE DO SO IN PMS...NOT ON THE THREAD.

Most of you KNOW no more than I do about the facts of the case. U may possess knowledge that gived you an edge (like being a pilot or living in WA), but that does NOT make any of your opinions more valid than those made by others......NONE of YOU were ON THAT PLANE nor did YOU witness anything on the ground.

All anyone has is whatever the authorities have felt needed to be made public....and fragments of things from the media. The media dresses their articles - each trying to out do the other - yet things did filter down thru the media NOT in any reports ever made public by the FBI.

IF anyone feels I should know - I would appreciate a copy of the FBI file's that were recently made public.

Remember I am COMPUTER illiterate when it come to more than a simple search or posting on this thread or doing email.

Thank YOU Shutter for the PRISON photo. I think I will remember that until the day I close my eyes for the last time....even when I can no longer remember - I will have that - and it is something I can hold in my hands.

What Duane Weber was and what he became! Maybe that is all that is IMPORTANT.

Duane in his last acceptance speech took no credit for his success, but let everyone know it was the GUYS who the Manager of the YR award belonged. Not a dry eye in the room that night.

skyjack71 · December 4, 2013

We are still trying to connect to the Anglin sister - there are 2 of them. There has been NO results from the COLD CASE files and they were NOT interested enough to present the picture of Ed to them or acknowledge the request.

If ANYONE can find a phone number or address for either sister - please provide it. I want them to have the picture of Ed from 1983. Wonder what the post mark was on the 2 cards they received after the escape? I think they should be the judge - not someone who never knew John who filters any information or leads they might like to have.

I want them to SEE the picture and the relate the story of how Ed said he knew Duane. Period - it will be up to them to investigate it further. There are or were people still alive who knew John and went to his funeral in MS.
He left behind a long time companion who was still alive 2 yrs ago.

All I can do is provide them with contact numbers of individuals who knew ED - if they think the man in that picture was their brother.

I have exhausted all I can to find them. Maybe someone else can get their contact information. They are in the 80's and were alive 2 yrs ago.

They will know who ZONA was as that was the tattoo on Clarence's arm. Zona is a rare name Duane said his daughter was named Zona.

Duane ASKED Ed how ZONA was that first time I met him in Denver, CO. At that time I did NOT know DUane's daughters name was Zona and to this day do NOT know if he really had a daughter named Zona. Born approx 1943....mother's name supposedly Edna....at least that was his explanation for the tattoo on his arm. Who was the Zona that Clarence knew and cared enough about to tattoo her name on his arm?

My memory wants to say it was Tommy who Duane asked about Zona....but in 1983 I knew Duane's daughter was named Zona (so he had told me). Therefore it is logical that Ed was the one he inquired about Zona with. If it had been Tommy - I think I might have asked questions in regards to Zona.

This again is one of my life experiences with the man I knew as Duane L. Weber also know as John Collins from 1962 to 1968.

The information I relate regarding Duane Weber is true and NOT fabricated - if anyone can help me contact the Anglin sisters - PLEASE help.

BruceSmith · December 4, 2013

You have to Fight for Your Right to Party! - 2013 Edition:

***************************

On the way to Ariel, Robb Heady drove Vicki and me down in a little, cute red rental. Robb and I were gabbing the whole way, and Robb is a huge baseball fan, heading down to Arizona for a few pre-season games and then in the season, going over to Coors Field in Denver for the Rockies vs. Anybody.

I was surprised to find out that the Rockies are like the Mariners in Seattle- a magnet team that attracts lots of baseball fans who don’t necessarily root for the home team.

“Yeah, when the Cardinals are in town, the stands are filled with red hats – the same when the Cubs are playing,” Robb said.

“’Cept then, the hats are blue,” I chided.

Robb and I are also huge fans of the Jack Reacher novels, although we can’t remember any of the titles. He loved my story of attending a book signing by the Reacher author, Lee Child, and how I was way out-numbered by female Reacher fans who were telling me that they wanted more sex scenes in the book, which I was happy to pass on to Child during the Q & A, adding that the gals around me were too chicken to tell him themselves…

Vicki was in the back seat and was busy with her electronic devices, giving us updates from the DZ on her smart phone and looking for Cooper super witness, Bill Mitchell.

Before we left Tacoma, I was able to weasel Mitchell’s name from Geoff, but it turned out the phone was disconnected. The staff at the WSHM refused to intercede for Vicki in helping her get to Bill, so that he could see what Mel looks like.

For those new to the case, Vicki’s father, Mel Wilson, disappeared from her family on September 15, 1971. His photos bear some resemblance to the composite sketches, particularly Composite A.

Jerry Thomas is a big proponent of Mel, and JT talks up Mel Wilson in many Cooper places. In fact, Vicki told me she got a phone call from Curtis Eng based upon prodding from JT, so the ol' boy has some influence at the Seattle FO.

I was also surprised to find out from Vicki that the federal law enforcement apparatus has a very large division helping folks like Vicki find their missing loved ones. Not surprisingly, Vicki told me that her federal case agent gets as much run-around from her supposed colleagues in other LE agencies. Sad but true. The FBI won’t even talk to the FBI liaison at Vicki’s DOJ division.

A few miles from Ariel we stopped at our Bed and Breakfast, the Lewis River B&B, which is a superb place to stay. Barb and Darrell are great hosts and poured us a bottle of fine Cabernet and we chatted for a bout an hour with the Formans, who had just arrived before us.

Around 6 pm we headed up to the tavern and found the Tacoma gang anchoring one end of the bar – Meyer, Doug, Mark Bennett, and the whole Oregon History Kick-Ass crew. Of course we joined them, and within seconds the beer joined the wine in my innards. Already ecstatic from getting stage time in Tacoma, and buzzed from non-stop yakking with Robb, I was zooming. The alcohol tasted so good and went down so easy, Soon, I had one beer in each hand and began to make friends at every turn.

When I spotted DB Cooper memorial “T” shirts in the merchandise section, I immediately bought one, stripped off my shirts (without nary a whisper or comment from the room full of bar patrons) and donned the shirt. Then I hunted up a Sharpie and began soliciting signatures from Cooper World.

At each encounter we had heart-to-heart talks. Meyer, Robb, Dona Elliott and Cindy her bar maid, Vicki, Melissa the super intern from Kick Ass, and on and on.

In the course of events I came upon a guy about 40 dressed in a green army coat and wearing jeans. He introduced himself as Paul Geivet, pronounced Ghee-Vet. He spoke a somewhat recognizable form of English, but I generally had no idea what he said or what he meant. He also had a fistful of books that he has written, which I honor as a remarkable achievement.

I thought he was selling me one, but he was actually telling me he was giving it to me. I thanked him, but then he asked me to sign it, which I did with my Sharpie, and he signed my shirt in multiple places, as the pix will attest.

Then Paul took the book back and added it to his stack.

"I guess I ain’t getting one," I thought.

I was correct in my assumption and Paul breezed away into the crowd.

Mark Bennett then came by and asked me where Grey Cop was. I pointed to Paul and said, “I think that’s your man!”

But Paul was heading towards the memorabilia corner in the Ariel Tavern and was swallowed by the crowd of about 50 revelers. Therefore I had to guide Mark across the dance floor to Paul/Grey Cop. After they made contact I quickly left. I went outside and dropped to my knees, made the sign of the cross and said a Hail Mary for Mark.

About ten minutes later, Vicki announced that she was going to rescue Mark, so that shows that prayer does work, particularly from an inebriated lapsed-Catholic in the rain.

I understand from Mark’s posting here at the DZ that Vicki was successful. Thank Gawd.

Paul/Grey Cop continued cruising and I saw him later with a phone-video camera out on the dance floor where Pat Forman and I were twirling each other. Vicki later showed us the YouTube clip of Paul’s creation.

Thank you Paul for getting me and my friends on YouTube!

By then Robb had retreated to the merch room and settled in with cute coeds and other university-looking young people.

There, I too found a beautiful woman - and she looks exactly like Christie from last year. We shocked each other when she announced that in fact her name is Christie – but not the old Christie who can really dance and has Parkinson’s.

However, new Christie refused to dance with me. I then asked her friend Alyssa to dance with me, and she too refused. Undaunted, I asked Christie’s husband to please speak to his wife about dancing with me, but he hedged. So, I talked to his best friend who was standing near them, and he said it was above his pay-grade.

I understand that dilemma so I moved on, but right about then I had my ass pinched by the waitress who was carrying a half-dozen bottles of beer out to the crowd in the street. It was the first time my ass has gotten pinched by a woman since I was a shopping mall Santa Claus and the secretaries would come down on their lunch hour and render my butt as red as my suit. Hence, I followed the waitress out to the street, and by the time I got to her she was lighting a cigarette. So, I took a deep breath and kissed her on the mouth. She seemed surprised.

Robb was getting concerned that I was over-consuming and announced that he was hungry, too, so we headed out to get some food with Vicki. We eventually found a casino that had a great Chinese/Asian restaurant and catered mostly to Asian folks who were really animated when they gambled. It was our kind of place, and we ate heartily.

After we finished we headed back to the B&B and the next day I had a hang over for the first time in ten years. It felt so strange.

Oh well, No pain, No Gain in Cooper sleuthing.

More yakking ensued and the Formans gave Robb the total low-down on Barb. After a great breakfast with fresh-baked everything, Robb, Vicki and I headed back to Tacoma.

After saying goodbye to Robb who was heading off to Sea-Tac, Vicki and I went over to her old motel and used the wi-fi to search for Bill Mitchell. AS I mentioned before, the number from Geoff was disconnected, but we learned it was a cell phone in Auburn.

However, a few hours of Googling and Internet searching proved unsuccessful, so we went up to Auburn and bounced about the coffee shops looking for a 62 year-old guy who sat next to DB Cooper 42 years ago.

We didn’t find Billy, but we made a lot of new friends who are now reading "Sky Thief."

Eventually, Vicki and I headed home and she stayed with my neighbors. I staggered into my little abode, and the next day I took her up to Sea-Tac for her return to the Minnie Apple.

I had a great time. I love you, DB Cooper!

smokin99 · December 4, 2013

skyjack71
We are still trying to connect to the Anglin sister - there are 2 of them. There has been NO results from the COLD CASE files and they were NOT interested enough to present the picture of Ed to them or acknowledge the request.

If ANYONE can find a phone number or address for either sister - please provide it. I want them to have the picture of Ed from 1983. Wonder what the post mark was on the 2 cards they received after the escape? I think they should be the judge - not someone who never knew John who filters any information or leads they might like to have.

I want them to SEE the picture and the relate the story of how Ed said he knew Duane. Period - it will be up to them to investigate it further. There are or were people still alive who knew John and went to his funeral in MS.
He left behind a long time companion who was still alive 2 yrs ago.

All I can do is provide them with contact numbers of individuals who knew ED - if they think the man in that picture was their brother.

I have exhausted all I can to find them. Maybe someone else can get their contact information. They are in the 80's and were alive 2 yrs ago.

They will know who ZONA was as that was the tattoo on Clarence's arm. Zona is a rare name Duane said his daughter was named Zona.

Duane ASKED Ed how ZONA was that first time I met him in Denver, CO. At that time I did NOT know DUane's daughters name was Zona and to this day do NOT know if he really had a daughter named Zona. Born approx 1943....mother's name supposedly Edna....at least that was his explanation for the tattoo on his arm. Who was the Zona that Clarence knew and cared enough about to tattoo her name on his arm?

My memory wants to say it was Tommy who Duane asked about Zona....but in 1983 I knew Duane's daughter was named Zona (so he had told me). Therefore it is logical that Ed was the one he inquired about Zona with. If it had been Tommy - I think I might have asked questions in regards to Zona.

This again is one of my life experiences with the man I knew as Duane L. Weber also know as John Collins from 1962 to 1968.

The information I relate regarding Duane Weber is true and NOT fabricated - if anyone can help me contact the Anglin sisters - PLEASE help.

Sent you a pm Jo.

On another note -- Found this newspaper article - Seattle times. Nov 25, 1971. I'm sure we've probably seen it before but the pic of the passengers didn't look familiar so I'm attaching it again.

Oh well...too large. if you're interested it's here.... viewing the pdf worked best for me.

https://archive.org/details/229921-cooper-1971

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

georger · December 4, 2013

skyjack71
We are still trying to connect to the Anglin sister - there are 2 of them. There has been NO results from the COLD CASE files and they were NOT interested enough to present the picture of Ed to them or acknowledge the request.

If ANYONE can find a phone number or address for either sister - please provide it. I want them to have the picture of Ed from 1983. Wonder what the post mark was on the 2 cards they received after the escape? I think they should be the judge - not someone who never knew John who filters any information or leads they might like to have.

I want them to SEE the picture and the relate the story of how Ed said he knew Duane. Period - it will be up to them to investigate it further. There are or were people still alive who knew John and went to his funeral in MS.
He left behind a long time companion who was still alive 2 yrs ago.

All I can do is provide them with contact numbers of individuals who knew ED - if they think the man in that picture was their brother.

I have exhausted all I can to find them. Maybe someone else can get their contact information. They are in the 80's and were alive 2 yrs ago.

They will know who ZONA was as that was the tattoo on Clarence's arm. Zona is a rare name Duane said his daughter was named Zona.

Duane ASKED Ed how ZONA was that first time I met him in Denver, CO. At that time I did NOT know DUane's daughters name was Zona and to this day do NOT know if he really had a daughter named Zona. Born approx 1943....mother's name supposedly Edna....at least that was his explanation for the tattoo on his arm. Who was the Zona that Clarence knew and cared enough about to tattoo her name on his arm?

My memory wants to say it was Tommy who Duane asked about Zona....but in 1983 I knew Duane's daughter was named Zona (so he had told me). Therefore it is logical that Ed was the one he inquired about Zona with. If it had been Tommy - I think I might have asked questions in regards to Zona.

This again is one of my life experiences with the man I knew as Duane L. Weber also know as John Collins from 1962 to 1968.

The information I relate regarding Duane Weber is true and NOT fabricated - if anyone can help me contact the Anglin sisters - PLEASE help.

"Having problems seeing the screen lately so reading the post is
difficult. Don't know if it is the medications or the other
problems going on. In just a 3 wk period of time - the screen
has become very difficult to read."

Hmmm. Didn't see to bother you writing a thousand + words?
Or do you copy and pastes scripts like Blevins?

georger · December 4, 2013

RobertMBlevins
Georger says in part:

Quote
'Remember? Sluggo called it the 'malady of central position'.

Blevins, In your haste to be the "first responder" chasing all
fires and emergency responder events . . . what on Earth
makes you qualified or even personally popular enough ... to be
"central position" with regard to any Cooper event, much less
a convention or symposium or gathering of people intelligent
and informed enough to be able to discuss the Cooper case,
with some hope of a positive outcome?

Moreover, you claim to be speaking for the people and officials
in Auburn, Washington ... which I happen to know you do not
speak for! [We know a few of those people. They never heard
of a RobertMBlevins!] You once boldly claimed that Auburn was
the birthplace of AIM - you are still living down that shameless
assertion, which is just one bogus claim of hundreds of your
bogus claims!...

More baloney. I mistakenly thought once that MADD started in Auburn, due to a very famous accident where a drunk lady killed three kids here who were riding their bikes. My mistake. And I have NOT made 'hundreds of bogus claims' either. You want to call me a liar? Give specific examples and allow me to defend myself. Otherwise it is just cheap slander on your part. You can put that in your hat, as far as I'm concerned.

If I REALLY considered myself some type of Cooper royalty, or any kind of 'Cooper Leader' I would have showed up to the symposium or at least to Ariel. I just don't care that much about it anymore, to be frank. And the museum is about twenty minutes from my office. I haven't even seen the display yet. So your assumption is dead wrong.

Where do you get this stuff you simply spout from the top of your head? I never said I 'spoke for Auburn officials'.

I said this:

I humbly serve on the Organizing Committee for the annual Auburn Days Festival that happens on the second weekend of August. That's ALL. And in all of that, I only have TWO main responsibilities: Helping to hang the banners, and deciding on how we use the Auburn Ave Theater each year. That's all. Nothing else, nada, negatory on additional responsibilities. In fact, my actual 'boss' for this is not the mayor, but the director of the festival. She is a good friend and one of the nicest people I've ever met.

You rattle on and on with these assumptions about me and yet you really know nothing. You haven't met me, you never attend the recent Cooper events as far as I know, and yet you have the LARGEST opinions on them. Why is that? In addition, you've been caught name-dropping known Cooper folk and crediting them with negative statements about me...and yet those people deny saying those things when I ask them about it. So that makes either YOU or THEY a LIAR. I think that's simple enough. So I don't really listen to you.

To Everyone else: After reviewing the previous posts regarding the Symposium and this year's Ariel celebration, I would say the Symposium was a modest success and that Ariel was just as big a hit as it has ever been. This is better than I expected, and my congratulations to the organizers.

I think some of you are missing the main point on what a Symposium should be about. It's simple. A symposium is where you have a good venue, a packed house of Cooper fans, and you present an event where the Cooper Folk participants interact with the public attendees. In simpler terms, you can bring all the Cooper folk you wish, but without a fat audience it is mostly a convention, not a real public event. That has what has been missing so far. I wouldn't even agree to doing anything Cooper-related at the theater unless I felt good that all or most of the 220 seats would be filled with both the public and some members of the media. Otherwise, the festival committee would hit me with two points: You couldn't fill the seats this year, and you made it into a private convention. Neither of those things is acceptable to either me or the rest of the committee. The reason they picked me for this job originally was because the festival program at the theater had been an abject failure for several years. The first year I ran it, I allowed the current program to run. It failed. The next year, I did the KC slideshows. It was a modest success. They wanted me to try it again the following year. I said no. Then, we finally came to the idea of the Book Swap (hundreds of books on tables in the lobby, you bring your own and swap out for ones you want) and running films. Big hit. We didn't quite pack the house, but it was a big improvement. So the plan is to move this to Friday afternoon/evening, and again all-day Sunday. I will have to be convinced to change this program. I have to think of the general public and my responsibilities to the festival, the budget they grant me, etc. (Have to pay licensing fees to show films, pay for the free snacks, etc)

I don't have time to organize a Cooper event at the Auburn Ave Theater, nor would I want to. I only offered a better venue for one. A place where there are things going on besides Cooper, where the parking is free and so is the admission. The movie screen, PA system, the free snacks, the Book Swap, and the nice seats certainly are a help. But it is much easier and cheaper for me to simply say, 'We're running movies again this year...' instead of throwing open the doors for a Cooper event.

Now next year....they have allowed me to decide which days the theater will run movies. (so far, unless something changes). Usually we do it on Saturday. But...Saturday is also the day the parade happens, so we couldn't get an audience until around 2PM. So, I have shifted the movies to Friday and Sunday only, leaving Saturday for the literary event run by the White Water Poets and the other poetry guys. Most of the people who attend that event are not interested in the parade. So...Friday evening and Sunday-All-Day it is.

My current position on the whole thing is that if there is no interest we do the same stuff as last year. Run three or more films on Sunday, and others on Friday evening. If I receive SERIOUS inquiries on using the theater for Cooper, then we would do that on Sunday, and run movies Friday afternoon into the evening. I've considered the idea of running Cooper-related films on Friday, though...should there even BE a Cooper event. Otherwise, normal films. And really...running the normal film event is much easier for me. Trust me, I'm not going to care if no one is interested. Just makes my job easier. Movies were very popular last year, even though we did nothing on Friday and ran the films on Saturday after the parade. Once people hear we're shifting the films to Friday and Sunday, we will probably pack the house.

Im sorry Blev-a-lot. I just finished reading Bruce's backstory
above your ... whatever you've said ... gimme three days to
recover from Bruce's story .... and I'll ge6t back to ya ...
Blev-a-lot.

If you are posting about your convention/sympisium/ etc ...
good luck to ya on that.

I want to go back up the page and read Bruce's Ariel story
again! Damn that kid can write!

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