DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***I have a little better pic from my last one. looks like the top gauge is a clock. it seems to read 4:56:15 the other two gauges I'm not sure, but Robert99 possibly has some answers....

movie version.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdgrfr0Bkk

Here is my guess - repeat guess - about the gages. The top one is a clock. Notice that it has 12 numbers (modulo 12) with what appears to be hour, minute, and second hands. There appears to be a knob at the 7 or 8 o'clock position which could be the means to set the clock.

The middle one is a rate of climb indicator. Note that it appears to have only one needle showing and that needle is pointing to what would be the 9 o'clock position if this were a modulo 12 instrument (which it is apparently not). Climb indicators do not have a means to "zero" them and none is visible here. That also rules out a "g meter" which does have a button to "zero" it.

The bottom one appears to be an altimeter with two needles, one showing thousands of feet and the second one showing hundreds (and fractions of hundreds) of feet. But altimeters have knobs for adjusting the barometric pressure and no knob is shown here as far as I can see.

Robert99

bottom gauge appears to also have number 1 thru 12...could it be reading 7,000???????

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

******I have a little better pic from my last one. looks like the top gauge is a clock. it seems to read 4:56:15 the other two gauges I'm not sure, but Robert99 possibly has some answers....

movie version.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdgrfr0Bkk

Here is my guess - repeat guess - about the gages. The top one is a clock. Notice that it has 12 numbers (modulo 12) with what appears to be hour, minute, and second hands. There appears to be a knob at the 7 or 8 o'clock position which could be the means to set the clock.

The middle one is a rate of climb indicator. Note that it appears to have only one needle showing and that needle is pointing to what would be the 9 o'clock position if this were a modulo 12 instrument (which it is apparently not). Climb indicators do not have a means to "zero" them and none is visible here. That also rules out a "g meter" which does have a button to "zero" it.

The bottom one appears to be an altimeter with two needles, one showing thousands of feet and the second one showing hundreds (and fractions of hundreds) of feet. But altimeters have knobs for adjusting the barometric pressure and no knob is shown here as far as I can see.

Robert99

bottom gauge appears to also have number 1 thru 12...could it be reading 7,000???????

At the moment, I can't think of any aircraft instrument, other than a clock, that uses a modulo 12 numbering system. So until I am proven wrong, I am going to stick with the bottom instrument being an altimeter.

But I do need to clarify my remarks above about the number of needles. If this instrument is a recent manufacture 1971 era altimeter, it should have THREE needles.

The needle not mentioned previously, makes one-tenth of a revolution for ever 10,000 feet of altitude change. This instrument is typically a thin needle with a small triangle on the rim of the scale. Its purpose is to help avoid altitude mistakes for aircraft that fly at high altitudes, say up to 40,000 feet and higher.

The short stubby needle makes one one-tenth of a revolution for ever 1,000 feet of altitude change. The third needle is relatively slender and makes one complete revolution for ever 1,000 feet of altitude change.

All three of these needles move proportionally as the altitude changes. For instance, say that the aircraft is at 35,520 feet ASL. The needle with the rim triangle would be slightly more than half-way between the 3 and 4 on the indicator face. The stubby needle would be just slightly past half-way between the 5 and 6. And the third needle would be exactly on the 520 increment.

A more understandable illustration is if the aircraft is at exactly 11,000 feet ASL. In this case the rim needle would be just slightly past the 1. The stubby needle would be exactly on the 1. And the third needle would be exactly on the 0 at the top of the instrument.

I can't decipher the picture in question very well at all. But if the needle pointing between the 5 and 6 is the stubby needle, and the needle pointing to about the 3 is the third needle, then the altitude would be about 5,300 feet ASL.

If the needles are transposed from the above, then the altitude would be about 3,550 feet ASL.

I don't see the rim needle anywhere.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

do you think these gauges can be found, or is it possible they made them for there test???

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

do you think these gauges can be found, or is it possible they made them for there test???

They were probably obtained from an instrument shop specifically for these tests. They are probably just standard instruments for the 1971 time frame.

Robert99

[georger 197]

Robert99

***do you think these gauges can be found, or is it possible they made them for there test???

They were probably obtained from an instrument shop specifically for these tests. They are probably just standard instruments for the 1971 time frame.

Robert99

One of those meters probably reads pressure of some kind.

I was looking for wires or a strain guage or sensor(s) ? There is a
vertical piece right side above the black meter panel and what
may be a wire or tube going from the black panel up to that
vertical piece? In the smaller photo the wire or tube is more sharply defined.

They would need time, pressure, and something to measure
force?

[skyjack71 0]

A retired law enforcement and his wife met with me today! It was a happen chance thing and not planned.

It was just meant to happen.

This man looked at the dates and the Jefferson file and the before and after pics and the composite. His reaction was one of disbelief although he said little.

I was told to GO public - that it was the only way to MAKE the government fess up to having made some errors in the Cooper investigation. If they don't - let the public decided!

NO QUESTION in anyones mind who has seen the composite, the Jefferson Intakes along with the pictures taken before and after. The daming comes from viewing the 1960 intake profile and release and then moving on down to the 1966 intake for Jefferson. Looking at the chin before 1966 and after 1966 tell the entire story right on to the 1977 pic which I took and from the angle a stewardess would have viewed Cooper.

There was astonishment expressed regarding the Jefferson file and why it was concealed from me. If CARR or any other agent actually viewed the photo and presented them with before and afters for those 1966 files, there is NO denying that Weber was Cooper and/or the most likely candidate ever.

Dirty politics and a poor investigation have taken 17 yrs of MY life! I decided to make the LEAP - and go forward. The FBI is going to deny deny deny, but the proof is in the pics!

VERY doubtful the witnesses were EVER show these pictures of Weber! In fact if anyone wants to make some bets - go for it. It is undeniable that someone missed a lot - on purpose or because NO one really cared. Negligence cost me 17 yrs and the government a lot of money! No one can give me back the yrs or my health.

No ONE expected technololgy and access to government files to reach the level it has now reached. The goverment nor the authorities are going to admit to errors, but let the public decide! When I kept harping on the Jefferson file - no one heard me except for Mrshutter and I think he only went there - hoping to help me find resolution and peace. NO ONE expected to find what was found! NO ONE other than those who claimed to have seen the Jefferson file - like LARRY CARR. I hope he rots in HELL! He only wanted to make a name for himself - he did not CARE about the people involved! NOT at all!

The other agents did NOT have the verbal /public access to me Carr did - therefore the axe falls on him!

I am sure someone will come up with a LOGICAL reason why all of this has been missed. WHY JT was allowed to harrass me and call me names!

I think a lot of people knew who Cooper was - but WHY keep it sealed? Now that is the FOCUS - WHY?

WHY was Jo Weber not given a polygraph in 1998? Why was her access to the active FBI limited?
Why was JO threatened regarding going to WA in 2010 - WHY did she feel she had to go in secret? BECAUSE Carr told me if I went to WA I would get in a lot of trouble! WHY would he tell me that.

Well, Jo is NOT delusional nor crazy nor off her rocker - and it looks like the FBI has a lot of explaining to do.


The details about Weber were concealed from me. Why hide the most daming file they had on Weber?

What the HELL was Weber involved in that would cause the FBI or anyone for that reason to withhold facts and files? Well, it would seem the answers wil be multiple. Covert or CIA or Neligence or just plain stupidity. Was the FBI so dis-allusioned about Cooper they would let a woman give up 17 yrs of her life to fight them.

IF the FBI had PROOF Weber was NOT Cooper - why didn't they discuss this with the family and explain it? WEll, the truth is they couldn't or didn't want to do so. WHY! I expect they are now in the process of trying to destroy or explain away the Jefferson file and any other blunders made over the last 41 yrs...or at least the last 17 yrs - dating to 1998 when they wrote the widow a cursory 2 paragraphs dismissing Weber based on fingerprints.

Then YRS later when NO DNA was left and the FBI not knowing if they even had Cooper's DNA - ask for his DNA and then sit on it from 2003 to 2007 - 5 fricking yrs and the only reason they did that was public pressure!

There are those who would like for Jo Weber to die and go way! It is NOT over until the FAT lady SINGS! I am not fat and I cannot sing - but I knew Duane Weber - not what he used to be but, what he became.

Heard another story about a fragment of one of the bills being sent to the FBI - do NOT know if this was true or not, but interesting if it is true and one has to wonder where this fragment was found. I think it is just another one of the multiple rumors that have circulated over the yrs.

There are still people out there who think the skunk story was real!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

sailshaw

mrshutter

You ask why DB needed help with the door for the airstairs. I have a good friend that was a Flight Attendant in those days and she says a slight pressure differential between the cabin and outside pressure could have given DB a problem, but when the Flight Attendant helped, it was no problem. The Attendants work with those things daily and and know what to do even if it is not covered by the flight manual. This was probably the first time DB had used an actual airstair even though he worked in the Manuals and Handbooks group at Boeing. He did have access to the actual designers of the airstairs and that helped him to know they could be opened in flight. As far as Sheridan not being able to indanger people, he was a machine gunner in the Marines during WWII and was a trained killer. He had a very polite personality and was a real charmer with the ladies. He had all the capabilities and the "perfect alibi" that he was in Nepal. Too perfect and the FBI should have seen through it. The DNA the FBI has of DB's is not at all good and they know it. However, the DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent by DB after Norjak could quickly solve this crime. However, the FBI is like the rest of our government (fixed mind sets and not willing to do the obvious thing to solve the crime).

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

Hogwash. Cooper (Weber) wasn't bright enough to do all the thinking. It was done for him by a very experienced pilot who worked for Northwest Airlines at the time, and fed to him one line at a time. You are off the mark, Bob, and seem to speak with unearned authority. You are simply wrong on your assumptions and deductions. Ask the 'boys' who ran the show. With all your connections, you should be able to pull those teeth, right? No biggie, the facts are all laying there for you to staple together. What keeps you from just doing it??? A paycheck?? A moral obligation? To whom? I think the public is supposed to be determining what is right here. Seems we have the table turned upside down. A few cover up the truth and lie like troopers to the public. Not my concept of apple pie and the American way. Bastards.

Norjak is only the tip of the iceberg.

[skyjack71 0]

Zero is the infomation you provided.
I was NEVER able to verify anything you ever said or claimed. NO one else could either. YOU professed to having records you never produced.

You took names and twisted and turned anything you could find on similar names and items you could find.

IF anyone is quilty of deception you are - you cost me a lot of yrs with your garbage....and you continue to spew garbage! You are the despicable part of this story! Sorry, I know how you BUILT your story and how you ride the coat tails of anyone who has ever talked about Cooper. You never met or knew Weber and if you did it was behind bars, at a bar or in a hospital...NOT one iota of proof you knew Weber and what you claim you created from things I used to bait your already unbelievable story back before 2000.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 3]

RobertMBlevins

Note: Even being a whuffo in the skydiving biz, I would bet good money that two of the gauges are a clock and an altimeter for sure. The third, I don't know.

Clock
VSI - tells how fast you're climbing or descending
Airspeed

Least, that's the way I see them.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mrshutter45 21]

quade

***Note: Even being a whuffo in the skydiving biz, I would bet good money that two of the gauges are a clock and an altimeter for sure. The third, I don't know.

Clock
VSI - tells how fast you're climbing or descending
Airspeed

Least, that's the way I see them.


the center gauge could be a VSI, but they look a little different from what is shown. the one on the plane looks like this (see photo) altitude I could see the FBI wanting, not sure about a VSI??? you would think at least one would be for pressure. if the center one is a VSI the plane is not level. the needle appears to be off from the 9 o'clock position?


would a VSI work in the reverse position?????

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

here is the pic we have showing with the gauges. I put an old VSI on the right and the one that is on the engineer's panel on the 727.

the FBI gauges, the center one appears to have more info on it vs a VSI?? another set of inner lines on the gauge? not sure yet.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

quade

***Note: Even being a whuffo in the skydiving biz, I would bet good money that two of the gauges are a clock and an altimeter for sure. The third, I don't know.

Clock
VSI - tells how fast you're climbing or descending
Airspeed

Least, that's the way I see them.

I think I have seen two needle Airspeed Indicators but that was eons ago. However, I don't think this is one.

Following WW2, things started to get standardized by the human factors people and the two needle airspeed indicators faded away.

Maybe they are just using an altimeter as a pressure gage to save a few bucks.

The three instruments on that panel should not cost more than about $200 in 1971 dollars in either new or freshly overhauled condition.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

******Note: Even being a whuffo in the skydiving biz, I would bet good money that two of the gauges are a clock and an altimeter for sure. The third, I don't know.

Clock
VSI - tells how fast you're climbing or descending
Airspeed

Least, that's the way I see them.


the center gauge could be a VSI, but they look a little different from what is shown. the one on the plane looks like this (see photo) altitude I could see the FBI wanting, not sure about a VSI??? you would think at least one would be for pressure. if the center one is a VSI the plane is not level. the needle appears to be off from the 9 o'clock position?


would a VSI work in the reverse position?????

Shutter, Remember that the TCAS was a long way in the future in 1971.

What do you mean by the VSI working in the reverse position?

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

"What do you mean by the VSI working in the reverse position?"


my mistake. I was thinking forward motion, not up and down.....disregard

in the process of going thru gauges....searching

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

I don't think we will find the gauges...here is what I found. the clock seems to be the closest found.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[sailshaw 0]

georger:

Notice in your attached pictures the jumper is facing forward while on the stairs as Blevin predicted DB must have backed down the stairs. That would have given DB the best view of where to jump and clear of windows etc...
Attached is a photo of Sheridan from one of two articles in the Boeing News prior to Norjak in November 1st 1962 issue. He was dressed just like DB including black suit, white shirt, black tie, and loafers. He was promoting the Boeing Skydiving Club.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[sailshaw 0]

Robert:

Yes and Sheridan also jumped in his suit, tie and loafers for a Boeing Skydiving Club demonstration all before Norjak. You have as closed a mind as the FBI and that is why they have not figured out the case. They came close but failed to follow through. Remember DB was only exposed to the elements for less than 3-4 minutes before he was on the ground. He did not need all the sports diving gear to make the jump and was used to night and bad weather jumping. Landing in the trees would have been no problem either as he was a trained Smoke Jumper. In the Marines in WWII he was a machine gunner (a trained killer) however he has a nice guy side also (especialy with the women). Could have Sheridan done the caper? I am sure he could and did it after planning it for ten years. Nepal was his "perfect alibi" and the FBI fell for it. Many things were done to cover the caper and that is why he could pull it off with out being caught.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[sailshaw 0]

Blevins:

You say:
"My opinion is that he's as innocent as the Virgin Mary on this one. Prove he ditched his new family and flew from Nepal to frickin' Portland and put on a suit to hijack a plane. Just try. Ain't going to be easy, my friend. Smile" :

I say:
"You are not a very good one to make your claim as you have been totally out to lunch with your candidate (KC) who is too short, wrong color of eyes, and white skin."
Yes the case can be closed very quickly if the FBI would test the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the Newspapers and compare with what they have of Sheridans DNA. They will find a match and the whole case will be blown open and solved. The Nepal alibi will be blown apart and the DNA is the "smoking gun" as it was the only thing that Sheridan could not have planned for as it was not used in those old days.
It is that easy, my friend (smile), but the FBI will never move to do it as they didn't think of how to solve the crime.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[mrshutter45 21]

The new DB Cooper wanted poster is out! due to popular demand.

so many people changing the descriptions, not getting the hair right etc. the FBI has now nailed down the composite as it should of been done over 40 years ago.

Thank You......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[quade 3]

A VSI indicates zero altitude gain/loss at the 9o'clock position. The one in the photo would be indicating a slight climb. Climb and decent would be important since the pressure on the bottom surface of the steps would be different in both regimes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vertical+speed+indicator&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mrshutter45 21]

quade

A VSI indicates zero altitude gain/loss at the 9o'clock position. The one in the photo would be indicating a slight climb. Climb and decent would be important since the pressure on the bottom surface of the steps would be different in both regimes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vertical+speed+indicator&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

yes that is correct on the VSI reading. now this triggered something I wasn't paying attention too. the picture shows someone at the bottom of the stairs. if this is a VSI, it's show how much the plane is pitching upward. this would be the reason for the photo?

my simulator doesn't do much when I drop the stairs. going to check something.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[quade 3]

mrshutter45

yes that is correct on the VSI reading.

Well, I'm glad you agree with me. It would be kind of a shock for me to find out I'd taught people how to fly and was wrong about that. ;)

Quote

now this triggered something I wasn't paying attention too. the picture shows someone at the bottom of the stairs. if this is a VSI, it's show how much the plane is pitching upward. this would be the reason for the photo?

my simulator doesn't do much when I drop the stairs. going to check something.....

Planes don't have to pitch up to gain altitude, especially the maybe 50 or so feet per minute being indicated there. I'm not going to get into the whole "pitch controls the airspeed and thrust controls climb" thing, but yeah, it does. Beyond that, it's entirely possible the pilot is anticipating for what would almost certainly be a pitch down as the stairs lower more with more weight on them. In any case, I wouldn't attach too much significance to the exact moment the photo was taken. It's entirely possible the stairs flopping around is causing the instruments to fluctuate as well.

Lastly, I doubt your simulator does much in the way of simulating the aerodynamics of the stairs in flight.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mrshutter45 21]

quade

***yes that is correct on the VSI reading.

Well, I'm glad you agree with me. It would be kind of a shock for me to find out I'd taught people how to fly and was wrong about that. ;)

Quote

now this triggered something I wasn't paying attention too. the picture shows someone at the bottom of the stairs. if this is a VSI, it's show how much the plane is pitching upward. this would be the reason for the photo?

my simulator doesn't do much when I drop the stairs. going to check something.....

Planes don't have to pitch up to gain altitude, especially the maybe 50 or so feet per minute being indicated there. I'm not going to get into the whole "pitch controls the airspeed and thrust controls climb" thing, but yeah, it does. Beyond that, it's entirely possible the pilot is attempting to pre-correct for what would almost certainly be a pitch down as the stairs lower more with more weight on them. In any case, I wouldn't attach too much significance to the exact moment the photo was taken. It's entirely possible the stairs flopping around is causing the instruments to fluctuate as well.

Lastly, I doubt your simulator does much in the way of simulating the aerodynamics of the stairs in flight.

I have a bad habit of saying that about the pitch. I drove Hominid nuts with that. still haven't learned. the aerodynamics of the simulator are pretty good, but doesn't really catch the stairs being down at any speed from what I remember in testing last year. I'm sure they skipped over that in programming the software.

we kinda take things and run with them. I doubt anything can be found evidence wise with the photo even if the gauges could easily be seen. but just another thing to check I am surprised the light didn't go off and on all the way down to Reno at some other point........

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[sailshaw 0]

Blevins:

You say:
"Of course he could. Now you must prove that he did, right? You have zip on this so far. People slam on Christiansen sometimes because he had 'hazel' eyes and Cooper's were reported as brown. Sheridan's are BLUE."

I say: "I don't have to prove anything. All we need is for the FBI to look at the last remaining evidence (stamps/envelope flaps for Cooper DNA from the four letters t the newspapers) and compare to what they have already on Sheridan. Case could be closed very quickly. It is the smoking gun and all that.
However, it is interesting that Sheridan shows up on his facebook page with the picture you reference and it looks like his eyes have changed to blue or is that blue contacts to make his brown eyes look blue? He seems to be flaunting his eyes in the photo as if he wants us to think the eyes are actually blue. Why is he doing that? Are we too close to him being the top candidate? His eyes were BROWN the whole month he stayed at my home in Seattle. Interesting that he put that photo on his facebook page.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[sailshaw 0]

Robert99
You say:
"Did you, or any of your relatives, serve in the US Military at any point or did you just sit on you lazy ass and live off the efforts of other people?"

I say:
I served four years in the Millitary (1952 to 1956) during the Korean War and was not sitting on my lazy ass as you state. Possibly, you are talking about your own lack of serving our country during war time. I used my G.I. Bill to get a BSEE from the UofW following my service time and post graduate at UCLA thanks to Boeing.

All Marines are trained to kill the enemy and remember their slogan in Boot Camp while holding their riffle with one hand and their crotch with their other hand) "this is my riffle, this is my gun, one is for killing and the other is for fun". They are trained killers whether it is politically correct to say so in present days.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]