DB Cooper

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

I haven't checked anything either. he is missing. here is the poster again....it's possible the FBI or US Marshal knew where he was at during the crime....don't know...

here - little larger readable for us geezars.

note that nice strong jaw, left eye lower than right. The
Coopers come in all shapes and sizes!

[smokin99 0]

georger

******

It's kind of interesting that no one in the thread has brought
Wild Bill forward? I think he looks EXACTLY like DB Cooper.

He evidently escaped Geoff Gray's attention in the files.

And his brother didn't go to 377 for a script! Daw di daw dit!


He escaped Tosaw's attention.

He escaped Sluggo's attention!

He escaped Meyer-Dvorak's attention!

He escaped Snowmman's search attention !!

I wonder if the Oregon Coopers and the MN Coopers are are
related? (Through the Richards-Coopers who settled the
Shenandoah Valley under mandate from King George). Some went to So Carolina, two to Ohio, and one to Minnesota.

I wonder if there is a Wild Bill/KC connection, through Mary Queen of Scotts ?

I'm sure titanium fits in there somewhere. Didn't Fuhrman say
the FBI failed to search Alaskan dog teams for titanium?

Did Janet know Wild Bill ?

I think you're probably making a joke, but I"ll bite. I actually thought this might be something to look into but I haven't done enough reading to say it out loud. Just going off the one article I read they said the physical description didn't fit but I haven't had time to do any digging to see what they based that on.
His basic profile is certainly intriguing. Hey if nothing else - I asked for something new to discuss and I got it. Thanks xyz and shutter.

Im just being an idiot - I think I read the same articles you did -
physical description didn't fit so once again the FBI cut bait.

Once again the FBI cuts bait based on a "physical description".
Makes you wonder what description they are using, but they
must have faith in it whatever description 'they' are using,
enough so to make or break an investigation ... and they move
on. That to me is interesting. What physical description are
they using? They must have faith in it (like Larry said)
whatever 'it' is.

A certain party has told me that Wild Bill was 'occupied and
elsewhere' on the day of the hijacking so along with physical
description he was dismissed rather quickly ?

However, I am 100% serious in the fact nobody apparently
except for locals in MN and WS, has brought Wild Bill forward
as a cult Cooper candidate. He didn't make the front page in
Cooper media tabloids? Ive never heard or seen his name in
any discussion group until now. And, I believe if Geoff had run
across Wild Bill while looking at FBI files, Wild Bill would be
mentioned in Geoff's book - he's just too colorful a character
not to include.

But, this phrase 'ruled out on the basis of physical description'
seems to be real, or it's a convenient ploy the FBI keeps
repeating over and over and over again...

They either have what they feel is a reliable physical
description that they use... or it's a catch phrase they continue
to use ...

It makes you wonder.

Yes it does. I've looked at a few random articles about so and so Last-name-Cooper getting questioned by the police but I've never heard of this guy until now. And like you said, maybe there's a reason for that - maybe for valid reasons he was immediately dismissed as a suspect.
regardless, I'm sure he will be the subject of quite a few google searches in the next couple of days.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

smokin99

*********

It's kind of interesting that no one in the thread has brought
Wild Bill forward? I think he looks EXACTLY like DB Cooper.

He evidently escaped Geoff Gray's attention in the files.

And his brother didn't go to 377 for a script! Daw di daw dit!


He escaped Tosaw's attention.

He escaped Sluggo's attention!

He escaped Meyer-Dvorak's attention!

He escaped Snowmman's search attention !!

I wonder if the Oregon Coopers and the MN Coopers are are
related? (Through the Richards-Coopers who settled the
Shenandoah Valley under mandate from King George). Some went to So Carolina, two to Ohio, and one to Minnesota.

I wonder if there is a Wild Bill/KC connection, through Mary Queen of Scotts ?

I'm sure titanium fits in there somewhere. Didn't Fuhrman say
the FBI failed to search Alaskan dog teams for titanium?

Did Janet know Wild Bill ?

I think you're probably making a joke, but I"ll bite. I actually thought this might be something to look into but I haven't done enough reading to say it out loud. Just going off the one article I read they said the physical description didn't fit but I haven't had time to do any digging to see what they based that on.
His basic profile is certainly intriguing. Hey if nothing else - I asked for something new to discuss and I got it. Thanks xyz and shutter.

Im just being an idiot - I think I read the same articles you did -
physical description didn't fit so once again the FBI cut bait.

Once again the FBI cuts bait based on a "physical description".
Makes you wonder what description they are using, but they
must have faith in it whatever description 'they' are using,
enough so to make or break an investigation ... and they move
on. That to me is interesting. What physical description are
they using? They must have faith in it (like Larry said)
whatever 'it' is.

A certain party has told me that Wild Bill was 'occupied and
elsewhere' on the day of the hijacking so along with physical
description he was dismissed rather quickly ?

However, I am 100% serious in the fact nobody apparently
except for locals in MN and WS, has brought Wild Bill forward
as a cult Cooper candidate. He didn't make the front page in
Cooper media tabloids? Ive never heard or seen his name in
any discussion group until now. And, I believe if Geoff had run
across Wild Bill while looking at FBI files, Wild Bill would be
mentioned in Geoff's book - he's just too colorful a character
not to include.

But, this phrase 'ruled out on the basis of physical description'
seems to be real, or it's a convenient ploy the FBI keeps
repeating over and over and over again...

They either have what they feel is a reliable physical
description that they use... or it's a catch phrase they continue
to use ...

It makes you wonder.

Yes it does. I've looked at a few random articles about so and so Last-name-Cooper getting questioned by the police but I've never heard of this guy until now. And like you said, maybe there's a reason for that - maybe for valid reasons he was immediately dismissed as a suspect.
regardless, I'm sure he will be the subject of quite a few google searches in the next couple of days.
Agree+++.

If he wasn't a candidate before he will be now!

The fact his body was never found adds to the mystery.

Later ...

[Amazon 7]

smokin99

******I'm just seeing Groucho Marx.
I'm also seeing, if those pictures on the right are of LD, in pictures taken at two different times in his life, he apparently had a thing for big sideburns. Those kind of sideburns just don't seem to be the type of style that a guy would wear on and off.
If you like that look on yourself, there's a reason - you probably think you see Elvis when you look in the mirror or something.

Ok.. I have to admit it... I have been saving it for all these years...

my 4th GrGrandfather was named Sam Cooper from South Carolina..

LOL...Busted!

You do realize that this makes makes you kinda sorta southern to boot. Howdy cuz
No kinda about it cuz... Look up Varina in Henrico VA.. I have 2 family lines going back to the 1620's when they first arrived in that area.

[georger 197]

Amazon

*********I'm just seeing Groucho Marx.
I'm also seeing, if those pictures on the right are of LD, in pictures taken at two different times in his life, he apparently had a thing for big sideburns. Those kind of sideburns just don't seem to be the type of style that a guy would wear on and off.
If you like that look on yourself, there's a reason - you probably think you see Elvis when you look in the mirror or something.

Ok.. I have to admit it... I have been saving it for all these years...

my 4th GrGrandfather was named Sam Cooper from South Carolina..

LOL...Busted!

You do realize that this makes makes you kinda sorta southern to boot. Howdy cuz
No kinda about it cuz... Look up Varina in Henrico VA.. I have 2 family lines going back to the 1620's when they first arrived in that area.
Try John Richards + Sarah Cooper. Star Tannery VA will have to
look up the date. Mandate from King George, settled 26 families
(Cartmell's History of the Shenandoah Valley). All on my mother's side.

Why did Cooper pick his name, of all the names to pick!

[mrshutter45 21]

Sluggo_Monster

All,

As I have mentioned before, my web-site generates a lot of “leads” into the attempt to identify Cooper. Most of them are from family members who think a relative was DB. Sometimes I get a “lead” from someone who has stumbled onto a suspect (in their mind) from something they read.

This morning I was researching a lead on one “William (Wild Bill) Cooper”. I found two “Wild Bill Coopers” and I thought I would share with the forum and see if anyone here thinks either one (or both) are worth further consideration. Here are the two “Wild Bills”:


Milton William Cooper

Story HERE

The son of a U.S. Air Force officer, Bill graduated in 1961 from Yamato High School in Japan, and enlisted in the U.S. Air force. He was honorably discharged in 1965. December of the same year he enlisted in the U.S. Navy. He served in Vietnam, rising to the rank of petty officer. Cooper was awarded the Navy Commendation Medal with combat V and the Navy Achievement Medal with combat V. He was honorably discharged in 1975.

Cooper's earliest notoriety developed among UFO enthusiasts, as he promoted UFO conspiracy theories, Kennedy assassination theories, and theories about a New World Order. Cooper became a popular speaker on the UFO lecture circuit, and expanded his account into the book Behold a Pale Horse.

YouTube - William Cooper died November 5 2001




William Lloyd David Cooper

William Lloyd David Cooper (more commonly known as Wild Bill and a string of alias') formerly of Willow River, MN was once one of the US Marshals’ 15 most-wanted criminals in the country, convicted of importing large quantities of marijuana from Mexico into the United States, among other crimes. {Photo Attached.}

Before he became a fugitive, he was an adventurer, leading two widely publicized snowmobile expeditions — one from Willow River to Anchorage, Alaska, in 1971, and another from Forrest Lake to the northern tip of Greenland in 1972 and ’73.

In Willow River, Cooper is still fondly remembered as the former owner of the Squirrel Cage and a great friend to many. Some say he’s still alive and running free, though U.S. Marshals are convinced he was killed in 1977.

Cooper was shot by Mexican Federal Judicial Police conducted a raid at an airstrip outside Senoyta in the Mexican province of Sonora August 20, 1977.

Steven K. Swensen, a supervisory deputy for the U.S. Marshals Service, District of Minnesota, was the lead investigator of a multi-agency task force that worked on Cooper’s case in the late 1980s.

Cooper was born and raised in Canada, and made many return trips in the 1970s, both by snowmobile and airplane. But Deputy Steve Mason, another U. S. Marshal for the District of Minnesota who is currently working on the case, dismisses rumors that Cooper was living in Canada during the 1980s as “not credible.” (Technically, the case will remain open until a body or remains are found, says Mason, who, like Swensen, believes Cooper is no longer alive.)

Story HERE


Any discussions on either “Wild Bill Cooper?”

William Lloyd David Cooper
Known “Bad Guy.”
Born and lived in Canada.
Able to finance (expensive) adventures in 1971 and 1972.
Once lived in Portland, OR.
Had reconstructive surgery on his face (confirmed).

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

***All,

As I have mentioned before, my web-site generates a lot of “leads” into the attempt to identify Cooper. Most of them are from family members who think a relative was DB. Sometimes I get a “lead” from someone who has stumbled onto a suspect (in their mind) from something they read.

This morning I was researching a lead on one “William (Wild Bill) Cooper”. I found two “Wild Bill Coopers” and I thought I would share with the forum and see if anyone here thinks either one (or both) are worth further consideration. Here are the two “Wild Bills”:


Milton William Cooper

Story HERE

The son of a U.S. Air Force officer, Bill graduated in 1961 from Yamato High School in Japan, and enlisted in the U.S. Air force. He was honorably discharged in 1965. December of the same year he enlisted in the U.S. Navy. He served in Vietnam, rising to the rank of petty officer. Cooper was awarded the Navy Commendation Medal with combat V and the Navy Achievement Medal with combat V. He was honorably discharged in 1975.

Cooper's earliest notoriety developed among UFO enthusiasts, as he promoted UFO conspiracy theories, Kennedy assassination theories, and theories about a New World Order. Cooper became a popular speaker on the UFO lecture circuit, and expanded his account into the book Behold a Pale Horse.

YouTube - William Cooper died November 5 2001




William Lloyd David Cooper

William Lloyd David Cooper (more commonly known as Wild Bill and a string of alias') formerly of Willow River, MN was once one of the US Marshals’ 15 most-wanted criminals in the country, convicted of importing large quantities of marijuana from Mexico into the United States, among other crimes. {Photo Attached.}

Before he became a fugitive, he was an adventurer, leading two widely publicized snowmobile expeditions — one from Willow River to Anchorage, Alaska, in 1971, and another from Forrest Lake to the northern tip of Greenland in 1972 and ’73.

In Willow River, Cooper is still fondly remembered as the former owner of the Squirrel Cage and a great friend to many. Some say he’s still alive and running free, though U.S. Marshals are convinced he was killed in 1977.

Cooper was shot by Mexican Federal Judicial Police conducted a raid at an airstrip outside Senoyta in the Mexican province of Sonora August 20, 1977.

Steven K. Swensen, a supervisory deputy for the U.S. Marshals Service, District of Minnesota, was the lead investigator of a multi-agency task force that worked on Cooper’s case in the late 1980s.

Cooper was born and raised in Canada, and made many return trips in the 1970s, both by snowmobile and airplane. But Deputy Steve Mason, another U. S. Marshal for the District of Minnesota who is currently working on the case, dismisses rumors that Cooper was living in Canada during the 1980s as “not credible.” (Technically, the case will remain open until a body or remains are found, says Mason, who, like Swensen, believes Cooper is no longer alive.)

Story HERE


Any discussions on either “Wild Bill Cooper?”

William Lloyd David Cooper
Known “Bad Guy.”
Born and lived in Canada.
Able to finance (expensive) adventures in 1971 and 1972.
Once lived in Portland, OR.
Had reconstructive surgery on his face (confirmed).

Sluggo's dates for the above from Mar 12, 2010 ... whole series of posts!

Good searching Shutter.

[377 20]

Quote

Snowmman and 377 were seeking "proof" of such missions
involving the 727 specifically. What surprised me was that
anyone would question it or that the 727 had been involved?
Those rear stairs on the 727 are an automatic tipoff! I mean
anyone just seeing a 727 and those rear stairs could deduce the
opportunity for 'parachuting' mout the back of one of those
airplanes, using the rear stairs. You didn't have to have
Classified information to see the potential opporunity.

I was an avid skydiver and airplane nut in 1971. I also owned a huge 727 flight manual then. I couldn't see any way to jump from a 727. The flight manual gave no hints that the rear stairs could be safely deployed in flight. I assumed that they couldn't. I figured there must be a locking system that prevented the stairs from deploying after takeoff. Most airliners have "squat switches" that are triggered by landing gear strut compression and can be used to disable or enable systems.

I had no idea that a stock airline 727 could be jumped in 1971. Jo had insisted to me that 727s were jumped in SE Asia. I was sceptical but did some searching and made contact with Dr. Joe Leeker at Univ of TX who had tons of info on CIA and Air America ops in that area. He confirmed the use of 727s for test airdrops over Thailand. Leeker had fantastically detailed records of CIA aircraft and ops during the Viet Nam war. He was very gracious about sharing info. Jo was right about 727s.

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/

I still think Cooper must have known that a 727 could be jumped. Without that knowledge he was very possibly entering an aluminum jail cell that would prevent his escape until landing. With my 727 knowledge and skydiving experience in 71 I never wound have tried what Cooper did because I could not be sure I could get out of the plane in flight.

Not any of the cockpit crew nor anyone at NWA ops could could determine whether the plane could be safely flown stairs down. They had to call Boeing. Turns out Boeing knew because they had done extensive flight tests probably for the CIA.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[testxyz 0]

Attached is a clean shaven Wild Bill derived from his wanted poster and a comparison to DB Cooper original sketch wanted poster.

No Ears for Wild Bill. None shown on his wanted poster.

[mrshutter45 21]

377

Quote

Snowmman and 377 were seeking "proof" of such missions
involving the 727 specifically. What surprised me was that
anyone would question it or that the 727 had been involved?
Those rear stairs on the 727 are an automatic tipoff! I mean
anyone just seeing a 727 and those rear stairs could deduce the
opportunity for 'parachuting' mout the back of one of those
airplanes, using the rear stairs. You didn't have to have
Classified information to see the potential opporunity.

I was an avid skydiver and airplane nut in 1971. I also owned a huge 727 flight manual then. I couldn't see any way to jump from a 727. The flight manual gave no hints that the rear stairs could be safely deployed in flight. I assumed that they couldn't. I figured there must be a locking system that prevented the stairs from deploying after takeoff. Most airliners have "squat switches" that are triggered by landing gear strut compression and can be used to disable or enable systems.

I had no idea that a stock airline 727 could be jumped in 1971. Jo had insisted to me that 727s were jumped in SE Asia. I was sceptical but did some searching and made contact with Dr. Joe Leeker at Univ of TX who had tons of info on CIA and Air America ops in that area. He confirmed the use of 727s for test airdrops over Thailand. Leeker had fantastically detailed records of CIA aircraft and ops during the Viet Nam war. He was very gracious about sharing info. Jo was right about 727s.

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/

I still think Cooper must have known that a 727 could be jumped. Without that knowledge he was very possibly entering an aluminum jail cell that would prevent his escape until landing. With my 727 knowledge and skydiving experience in 71 I never wound have tried what Cooper did because I could not be sure I could get out of the plane in flight.

Not any of the cockpit crew nor anyone at NWA ops could could determine whether the plane could be safely flown stairs down. They had to call Boeing. Turns out Boeing knew because they had done extensive flight tests probably for the CIA.

377

the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed. it appears that Boeing did do testing on the stairs while in flight, but how much of this was made public or how many in the company were aware of the testing? would this have been a well guarded secret, or would the typical guy on the manufacturing line know this?

do we have to automatically expect Cooper to of known the stairs would deploy in flight? testing and criminal active share a certain bond, the word "hope" plays a role in testing and criminal activity. I know the stairs have accidentally opened in flight, but not sure on the date. if he read this he could of got his answer as well?

the 727 that left DA Nang was so overloaded and damaged it shouldn't have been able to fly, but it did.

I thought I saved the PDF I found while looking for the spacing and tire size, it did show a chart of what speed the stairs could be safely deployed and when they shouldn't. I have not been able to find this PDF. been looking off and on since I lost the data I can't remember what term I used in my search....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

377

Quote

Snowmman and 377 were seeking "proof" of such missions
involving the 727 specifically. What surprised me was that
anyone would question it or that the 727 had been involved?
Those rear stairs on the 727 are an automatic tipoff! I mean
anyone just seeing a 727 and those rear stairs could deduce the
opportunity for 'parachuting' mout the back of one of those
airplanes, using the rear stairs. You didn't have to have
Classified information to see the potential opporunity.

I was an avid skydiver and airplane nut in 1971. I also owned a huge 727 flight manual then. I couldn't see any way to jump from a 727. The flight manual gave no hints that the rear stairs could be safely deployed in flight. I assumed that they couldn't. I figured there must be a locking system that prevented the stairs from deploying after takeoff. Most airliners have "squat switches" that are triggered by landing gear strut compression and can be used to disable or enable systems.

I had no idea that a stock airline 727 could be jumped in 1971. Jo had insisted to me that 727s were jumped in SE Asia. I was sceptical but did some searching and made contact with Dr. Joe Leeker at Univ of TX who had tons of info on CIA and Air America ops in that area. He confirmed the use of 727s for test airdrops over Thailand. Leeker had fantastically detailed records of CIA aircraft and ops during the Viet Nam war. He was very gracious about sharing info. Jo was right about 727s.

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/

I still think Cooper must have known that a 727 could be jumped. Without that knowledge he was very possibly entering an aluminum jail cell that would prevent his escape until landing. With my 727 knowledge and skydiving experience in 71 I never wound have tried what Cooper did because I could not be sure I could get out of the plane in flight.

Not any of the cockpit crew nor anyone at NWA ops could could determine whether the plane could be safely flown stairs down. They had to call Boeing. Turns out Boeing knew because they had done extensive flight tests probably for the CIA.

377

I have the conversation about the calls to Boeing in the summer of 1968. It took several calls to get an engineer who would talk. At that time there were rumors of jumps, but nothing confirmed. Stairs down was stable. Jumping was an unknown and McCoy would not risk it until Weber made his jump. Because Duane went down head first and got hurt, Mac backed down and went off like a scuba diver would. THAT is first hand information and not speculation. Ask the sources yourself. They might even snicker. Not.

[mrshutter45 21]

you didn't do anything Bob, stop adding to your story as you always do. Marla has now taken your story. perhaps we can get you into the spot light now. you are being whooped by a woman HA HA.......

she is also claiming Nixon and airport security...look out buddy, the competition is moving in on ya....better go public......

I'm sure it won't take long for reporters to see your story as well as Marla's. better speak up before they find you hiding.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

mrshutter45

you didn't do anything Bob, stop adding to your story as you always do. Marla has now taken your story. perhaps we can get you into the spot light now. you are being whooped by a woman HA HA.......

she is also claiming Nixon and airport security...look out buddy, the competition is moving in on ya....better go public......

I'm sure it won't take long for reporters to see your story as well as Marla's. better speak up before they find you hiding.

I did not do anything then, except take notes for McCoy's defense. I doing something now, I'm telling Mac's story. Get a life. FBI has already blown her out of the water. The truth is the truth. Half truth is still a falsehood. I'm not available to reporters except Gray, Pasternak, and Hume as they have a correct perspective.

[377 20]

Quote

the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed. it appears that Boeing did do testing on the stairs while in flight, but how much of this was made public or how many in the company were aware of the testing? would this have been a well guarded secret, or would the typical guy on the manufacturing line know this?

All good points Mr. Shutter. Sheridan Peterson who worked in technical documentation at Boeing arguably could have gained access to the flight test reports. He was a smoke jumper, expert skydiver, had made night jumps and had a huge grudge against the US Govt which he holds to this day.

He just doesn't seem like a guy who would threaten to kill people just for money. He witnessed atrocities in Nam and abhors violence. His main screen name is Peacenik Pete.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more qualified DBC as far as skills go AND he had at least some inside access to Boeing tech docs. The FBI interviewed him twice and only quit when his DNA didn't match the same they believe is Cooper's.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BobKnoss 0]

377

Quote

the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed. it appears that Boeing did do testing on the stairs while in flight, but how much of this was made public or how many in the company were aware of the testing? would this have been a well guarded secret, or would the typical guy on the manufacturing line know this?

All good points Mr. Shutter. Sheridan Peterson who worked in technical documentation at Boeing arguably could have gained access to the flight test reports. He was a smoke jumper, expert skydiver, had made night jumps and had a huge grudge against the US Govt which he holds to this day.

He just doesn't seem like a guy who would threaten to kill people just for money. He witnessed atrocities in Nam and abhors violence. His main screen name is Peacenik Pete.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more qualified DBC as far as skills go AND he had at least some inside access to Boeing tech docs. The FBI interviewed him twice and only quit when his DNA didn't match the same they believe is Cooper's.

377

If they actually had Cooper's DNA it would have matched Duane Weber. Who was it said they couldn't direct traffic at a Red Sox game? Mrs.Hutter? Ask Nick O'Hara to 'fess up. Be honest. Tell the truth. Be a man.

[mrshutter45 21]

Bob, you have been asked many times to "fess up" why have someone else do it. as soon as Marla's story gains public knowledge of a possible cover up, you can rest assure I will alert every news outlet known of your little story.

go ahead and wait it out, I'm in no rush

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

377

Quote

the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed. it appears that Boeing did do testing on the stairs while in flight, but how much of this was made public or how many in the company were aware of the testing? would this have been a well guarded secret, or would the typical guy on the manufacturing line know this?

All good points Mr. Shutter. Sheridan Peterson who worked in technical documentation at Boeing arguably could have gained access to the flight test reports. He was a smoke jumper, expert skydiver, had made night jumps and had a huge grudge against the US Govt which he holds to this day.

He just doesn't seem like a guy who would threaten to kill people just for money. He witnessed atrocities in Nam and abhors violence. His main screen name is Peacenik Pete.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more qualified DBC as far as skills go AND he had at least some inside access to Boeing tech docs. The FBI interviewed him twice and only quit when his DNA didn't match the same they believe is Cooper's.

377

why did he have trouble with the stairs? it's a simple lever. the directions clearly show how easy it is?
if he had access to documents, he shouldn't of had a problem?

the questions come up again about knowledge of jumping. could Peterson of done this, sure, but would he have jumped the way Cooper did. (clothing) did he take the dummy chute to fool people? if he had a knife which obviously he did to cut the cord. why didn't he cut open the dummy chute according to reports a white canopy was inside. if he realized the chute was not operable why did he take it? I'm so on the fence about his knowledge...let me ask you this, would you have noticed the dummy chute? if I didn't know much about jumping I might have taken it by mistake. Matt told me a while back that a lot of jumpers don't use them, so we go in circles once again on his knowledge....the odds are 50/50 of him taking it by mistake or having knowledge it was inoperable???

BK I don't need a response on this...call Marla up and start matching your story to hers, you guys would make a good team......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

On January 18, 1996 the Boston Globe, a daily newspaper published in Boston, Massachusetts carried a small article with the headline "Jet Stairs Deploy in Flight." A Reuters news item with a dateline of San Antonio, Texas gave a brief amount of the unusual in-flight incident:

A Trans World Boeing 727 with 72 people aboard landed at San Antonio International Airport Tuesday night after the aircraft's rear stairs deployed in flight. TWA Flight 199 was flying from St. Louis to San Antonio when a cockpit warning light indicated that the stairs under the jet's tail engine had become unlocked, an airline spokesman said....

The pilot descended to 3,000 feet and depressurized the cabin so that the stairs, which are behind a bulkhead door in the rear of the aircraft, could be retracted. "A crew member reached around, grabbed the handle, and pulled, raising the stairs hydraulically," [the spokesman] said. A rope was tied around the handle to keep the stairs raised.... TWA policy requires that the rear stairs be lowered when an aircraft is on the ground as a safety precaution, and crews use the stairs to gain access.

The airline is reviewing maintenance operations at St. Louis-Lambert International Airport. The jet was back in service yesterday.

did we have complete failure. was the Cooper Vein on this as well?

http://www.aero.com/publications/parachutes/9602/pc0296.htm

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Why did Cooper pick his name, of all the names to pick!

Read ALL you can find about the Missoula fire and you will know why the Cooper name was chosen!

An old teaching from the indians - "Lie down in the fire". When I read about the teachings of surving a fire, I knew where DUANE WEBER got that expression. He mentioned the indians and remember the survior who survived only because he laid down in the fire. Duane actually told me this on our 1979 trip...it would be yrs later before I would find verification of this in my research.

The teachings came not only from the indians, but from a man in history dating way back. His name was COOPER! Had his teachings been taught to the fire fighters - many would have survived fires they did not.

The man who survived Missoula by lieing down in the fire - knew the teaching of this man. I forget the names now, but I have copies of the writings and somewhere in this thread I made the quotes from the book. I do not remember the name of the book right now.

As I have said I am loosing details I have held on to many yrs - so you guys will have to do the research on your own or get it from the guy who gets all of my reseach information when I am gone.

The teachings of Cooper could have saved many lives. Duane claimed to have known a couple of the guys who were at Missoula. It seemed a very emotional thing for him. He told me this story as we drove along the highway on our way to WA. We did NOT go to Missoula, but he told me the story! You see I do NOT forget things like this - I remember. Just a stange quirk I share with other members of my family...only I am not the best at recall - my brother is as was my father.

Also men who change names and use alias often use the same initials.

Duane was John C. Collins and other variations of that name. His brother's name was John. John Dusty Collins is how he is listed on the Missouri file and Dusty is give as nickname in other senarios. Dusty Collins a name he used. Dusty was Tattooed on his arm and is listed in the encarceration at Folsom/SanQuentin. Do not know if this tattoo is listed on early arrests prior to that - such as McNeil as the detailed records had been destroyed.

Remember this when I met Duane that first time - I did NOT use my married name as it was very common and I was tired of hearing "Sure Baby, Sure".

I started using my given name and it intrigued Weber. He was more interesterd in my family history than he was me. He specifically asked me when I told him I was from KY if my fathers name was John. It told him know but my Grandfathers name was John.

Yrs later - 1990 when Duane tried to obtain and DID obtain a FL drivers license under an alias he had used John C. Collins that I started to think my marriage to him was a shield.
The patrol thought because the van was register to me that the man they were looking for was my father.

He seemed surprised when I told him "No, that is my husband, he is 17 yrs older than myself". You know the rest of the story.

Using the same initial such as DC makes it easier to remember your fake ID's. Dusty Collins, John C. Collins, Dan Cooper. Duane Weber.
Remember if he slipped and said D and didn't finish it he could easily go from saying Duane to Dan. C was easy because his father and brother use Claude and Claudian (not sure I spelled those right, but do not feel like looking them up).

This is the story behind the name Dan Cooper. One can also make a K out of the C - he had to have names that follow the thougt path so he could always cover up if he slipped up on his name. Do you think he gave his real name to all of the Women he swindled and stole from?

It was the pattern - Easy to slip from Dddd to Dan or Duane. Same with Colllins - easy to slip from Collins to Cooper, to Kooten, to Cotton.

I mention Cotton because that is an alias Clare mentioned. One used in the book, but only becuase Clara told Max Gunther that Cooper used sound alike name to his own during the yrs she knew him 1962 to 1972. He was by profession a "Crook" and Crooks used names they can remember.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

On January 18, 1996 the Boston Globe, a daily newspaper published in Boston, Massachusetts carried a small article with the headline "Jet Stairs Deploy in Flight." A Reuters news item with a dateline of San Antonio, Texas gave a brief amount of the unusual in-flight incident:

A Trans World Boeing 727 with 72 people aboard landed at San Antonio International Airport Tuesday night after the aircraft's rear stairs deployed in flight. TWA Flight 199 was flying from St. Louis to San Antonio when a cockpit warning light indicated that the stairs under the jet's tail engine had become unlocked, an airline spokesman said....

The pilot descended to 3,000 feet and depressurized the cabin so that the stairs, which are behind a bulkhead door in the rear of the aircraft, could be retracted. "A crew member reached around, grabbed the handle, and pulled, raising the stairs hydraulically," [the spokesman] said. A rope was tied around the handle to keep the stairs raised.... TWA policy requires that the rear stairs be lowered when an aircraft is on the ground as a safety precaution, and crews use the stairs to gain access.

The airline is reviewing maintenance operations at St. Louis-Lambert International Airport. The jet was back in service yesterday.

did we have complete failure. was the Cooper Vein on this as well?

http://www.aero.com/publications/parachutes/9602/pc0296.htm

Was the Cooper Vane only retrofitted to the 727s that were already in service or was it also incorporated into the production of new 727s?

It would seem to be more logical to design an electrical switch to prevent the deliberate deployment of the stairs in flight in new production 727s.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

377

Quote

Snowmman and 377 were seeking "proof" of such missions
involving the 727 specifically. What surprised me was that
anyone would question it or that the 727 had been involved?
Those rear stairs on the 727 are an automatic tipoff! I mean
anyone just seeing a 727 and those rear stairs could deduce the
opportunity for 'parachuting' mout the back of one of those
airplanes, using the rear stairs. You didn't have to have
Classified information to see the potential opporunity.

I was an avid skydiver and airplane nut in 1971. I also owned a huge 727 flight manual then. I couldn't see any way to jump from a 727. The flight manual gave no hints that the rear stairs could be safely deployed in flight. I assumed that they couldn't. I figured there must be a locking system that prevented the stairs from deploying after takeoff. Most airliners have "squat switches" that are triggered by landing gear strut compression and can be used to disable or enable systems.

I had no idea that a stock airline 727 could be jumped in 1971. Jo had insisted to me that 727s were jumped in SE Asia. I was sceptical but did some searching and made contact with Dr. Joe Leeker at Univ of TX who had tons of info on CIA and Air America ops in that area. He confirmed the use of 727s for test airdrops over Thailand. Leeker had fantastically detailed records of CIA aircraft and ops during the Viet Nam war. He was very gracious about sharing info. Jo was right about 727s.

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/

I still think Cooper must have known that a 727 could be jumped. Without that knowledge he was very possibly entering an aluminum jail cell that would prevent his escape until landing. With my 727 knowledge and skydiving experience in 71 I never wound have tried what Cooper did because I could not be sure I could get out of the plane in flight.

Not any of the cockpit crew nor anyone at NWA ops could could determine whether the plane could be safely flown stairs down. They had to call Boeing. Turns out Boeing knew because they had done extensive flight tests probably for the CIA.

377

Thank YOU so very much for explaining this to the posters so that they have a grasp of WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. When I try to defend myself - the nay-sayers win and NOT Jo. The ones who are the hype posters rarely read back to look at the research that has already been done before.

So glad you still post here or all reason of logic would just go out the window! Some posters prefer their own versions of the facts and not the REAL facts.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***On January 18, 1996 the Boston Globe, a daily newspaper published in Boston, Massachusetts carried a small article with the headline "Jet Stairs Deploy in Flight." A Reuters news item with a dateline of San Antonio, Texas gave a brief amount of the unusual in-flight incident:

A Trans World Boeing 727 with 72 people aboard landed at San Antonio International Airport Tuesday night after the aircraft's rear stairs deployed in flight. TWA Flight 199 was flying from St. Louis to San Antonio when a cockpit warning light indicated that the stairs under the jet's tail engine had become unlocked, an airline spokesman said....

The pilot descended to 3,000 feet and depressurized the cabin so that the stairs, which are behind a bulkhead door in the rear of the aircraft, could be retracted. "A crew member reached around, grabbed the handle, and pulled, raising the stairs hydraulically," [the spokesman] said. A rope was tied around the handle to keep the stairs raised.... TWA policy requires that the rear stairs be lowered when an aircraft is on the ground as a safety precaution, and crews use the stairs to gain access.

The airline is reviewing maintenance operations at St. Louis-Lambert International Airport. The jet was back in service yesterday.

did we have complete failure. was the Cooper Vein on this as well?

http://www.aero.com/publications/parachutes/9602/pc0296.htm

Was the Cooper Vane only retrofitted to the 727s that were already in service or was it also incorporated into the production of new 727s?

It would seem to be more logical to design an electrical switch to prevent the deliberate deployment of the stairs in flight in new production 727s.

Robert99


Douglas DC 9 aircraft with ventral stairs were also equipped with Cooper vanes. The DC 9-21 used for skydiving at the 2006 World Free Fall Convention in Rantoul, Illinois had one installed, but since the rear pressure bulkhead door and the stairs had been removed to facilitate fast jumper exits, the vane, which was left in place, did not prevent jumps

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed.

Think about what you just said. The testing was done - the aft door was NOT removed just the stairs so they could slide the cargo out. In fact they could have had a slide over the stairs.

The complete Aft way was NOT removed - just modified or altered to accommodate cargo going out the door and putting jumpers out the door faster!

WHO did the modification. The authorities, Boeing and who were the mechanics who did the work for the modification? A lot of people involved in a lot of different ways.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

skyjack71

Quote

the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed.

Think about what you just said. The testing was done - the aft door was NOT removed just the stairs so they could slide the cargo out. In fact they could have had a slide over the stairs.

The complete Aft way was NOT removed - just modified or altered to accommodate cargo going out the door and putting jumpers out the door faster!

WHO did the modification. The authorities, Boeing and who were the mechanics who did the work for the modification? A lot of people involved in a lot of different ways.

Jo, you can clearly see in the video the back part where the stairs are supposed to be are no longer there. it appears it was a voided area. they could close the bulkhead door and pressurize the plane when needed. I will get a pic for you.....

if the stairs were in place, you would see them below the aircraft.....I believe several steps where part of the plane, while the rest where part of the door. this is why a ramp is seen.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

377

You'd be hard pressed to find a more qualified DBC as far as skills go AND he had at least some inside access to Boeing tech docs. The FBI interviewed him twice and only quit when his DNA didn't match the same they believe is Cooper's.

377

There was Boeing advisor who was a friend of Duane's brother who received a phone call before the crime.
The call was put thur because he thought it had been cleared. The question asked of this man was about the aft stairs. He later went to the authorities fearful of his position thinking he may have provided Cooper with the knowledge (and or verification of) to commit the crime. I forget the man's name now. BUT some place his story was told...after he retired.

These are the LITTLE things that so many of the investigator have ignored.
The man thought the voice sounded like someone he knew. Probably because it sounded like John who was Duane's brother.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber