DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

I have the software to enhance the pic enough to see what the gauges are...but need an original image larger in size than 30kb. Not enough image data to enhance properly.

I've had the pic for some time know. I have no idea where it came from. it was on a site that had 6 or 7 FBI pics. I think it had something to due with them ending the search.closing the camp down in 72


Testxyz.....this would be a question for the jumpers on here. I'm not to familiar with the DC-8. I don't know if you can safely jump from the side. the right speed I'm sure it's possible.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

***All,

As I have mentioned before, my web-site generates a lot of “leads” into the attempt to identify Cooper. Most of them are from family members who think a relative was DB. Sometimes I get a “lead” from someone who has stumbled onto a suspect (in their mind) from something they read.

This morning I was researching a lead on one “William (Wild Bill) Cooper”. I found two “Wild Bill Coopers” and I thought I would share with the forum and see if anyone here thinks either one (or both) are worth further consideration. Here are the two “Wild Bills”:

Milton William Cooper

Story HERE
........................................................

YouTube - William Cooper died November 5 2001

William Lloyd David Cooper
............................................................

Story HERE

Any discussions on either “Wild Bill Cooper?”

William Lloyd David Cooper
Known “Bad Guy.”
Born and lived in Canada.
Able to finance (expensive) adventures in 1971 and 1972.
Once lived in Portland, OR.
Had reconstructive surgery on his face (confirmed).

Okay. I think I remember this post of Sluggo's (I left out parts in interest of space - anyone interested can read MrShutter's post for full post).
Don't know if it got much discussion then. I'll have to do a search and see. Thanks Shutter.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

I have the software to enhance the pic enough to see what the gauges are...but need an original image larger in size than 30kb. Not enough image data to enhance properly.

I found the site where I got the pics....

http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/d-b-cooper-40-years-later-1322067445-slideshow/d-b-cooper-photo-1322066420.html

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

testxyz

Anyways......Can one safely jump from a commercial DC-8? It appears the doors wouldn't want to come open in mid-flight. Plus a parachuter might hit the pesky tail in the back.

Safely? No way. But one hijacker survived a jump from a DC-10 (I think it was) over Indiana one night. If I remember correctly, he lost all of his clothes plus the money bag. He jumped through one of the over wing exits but the irritated pilot had made it a point to be doing about 100 MPH faster than the hijacker had specified.

He stole some clothes from a home or somewhere but was arrested within a day or two. A neighboring farmer found the money bag in his bean field the next day and had some trouble with the police when he insisted on keeping it.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

***I have the software to enhance the pic enough to see what the gauges are...but need an original image larger in size than 30kb. Not enough image data to enhance properly.

I found the site where I got the pics....

http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/d-b-cooper-40-years-later-1322067445-slideshow/d-b-cooper-photo-1322066420.html

The FBI pictures I saw were on this thread and appear to have been of somewhat better quality, or at least larger, than the ones found by Shutter on another site.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

******I have the software to enhance the pic enough to see what the gauges are...but need an original image larger in size than 30kb. Not enough image data to enhance properly.

I found the site where I got the pics....

http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/d-b-cooper-40-years-later-1322067445-slideshow/d-b-cooper-photo-1322066420.html

The FBI pictures I saw were on this thread and appear to have been of somewhat better quality, or at least larger, than the ones found by Shutter on another site.

Robert99

do you think those gauges can be found? I don't really understand the need for them if they were trying to replicate the actions? why not use the gauges in the cockpit as the pilot did? I'm sure they marked those readings as well. unless these were different from the panel gauges?????

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

*********I have the software to enhance the pic enough to see what the gauges are...but need an original image larger in size than 30kb. Not enough image data to enhance properly.

I found the site where I got the pics....

http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/d-b-cooper-40-years-later-1322067445-slideshow/d-b-cooper-photo-1322066420.html

The FBI pictures I saw were on this thread and appear to have been of somewhat better quality, or at least larger, than the ones found by Shutter on another site.

Robert99

do you think those gauges can be found? I don't really understand the need for them if they were trying to replicate the actions? why not use the gauges in the cockpit as the pilot did? I'm sure they marked those readings as well. unless these were different from the panel gauges?????

Apparently the FBI wanted to get several things on the same photograph related to the stair position and what was on the stairs. So they positioned the instruments so that they would appear in the photo and they probably used time as shown on the clock to make some estimates about the boxes, stair position, etc..

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

Haven't looked on the thread yet to see where the conversation about him went in 2010, but I did find out that he was indicted in Butte Montana in Feb 1970 for interstate transportation of a stolen tractor from Seattle to Anaconda.
Haven't found anything about whether it went to trial or not. Lots of stuff about the court cases on the smuggling, and being a fugitive. stuff about the documentary on his team's attempted snowmobile run from Minneapolis to Moscow. "Wild Bill's Run" is on Facebook.

Couple of pictures from early 70s. The one in the airport is 72 or 73. I think he's the one with the ........yep...............briefcase!
I think we might be on to something..... then those flippin hazel eyes ruin everything. .

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

I don't know if you saw this video of Wild Bill.....

http://www.wildbillsrun.com/#photos

scroll down on the front page.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

I don't know if you saw this video of Wild Bill.....

http://www.wildbillsrun.com/#photos

scroll down on the front page.....

Yeah that's the documentary that the facebook page is about. Interesting life to say the least.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

***I don't know if you saw this video of Wild Bill.....

http://www.wildbillsrun.com/#photos

scroll down on the front page.....

Yeah that's the documentary that the facebook page is about. Interesting life to say the least.

that damn music gets stuck in my head from that video

did it say what year the pic was at the airport...note wearing NWO colors, but flying Eastern
he is about the right size in that pic, 1972 looks rather large....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

according to Duane's prison record his arms were full of them...

yea, sure. I was only kidding - of course I know where his TWO tattoos were and there was no scarring from having any removed.

Evidently he did add to or change one of them due to what the record stated.
NO mention of EDNA which was in one of the tattoos. That was the name of the mother of his child Zona.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

***


Georger I was just kidding around - can't be serious every moment. I have had that record since 1998 or there abouts. Doug Pasternak acquired it for me back then when the FBI refused to send me anything. I have the dated copy he received and it is the very same file. You probably got that one from Sluggo.

He saw them and anyone who investigated Weber saw them. Some of the things Shutter found - NO one had seen - like the Jefferson pictures.

After all I could NOT prove I was the widow of John Collins and the FBI REFUSED me those files. Wonder WHY considering the mug shot?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

"
After all I could NOT prove I was the widow of John Collins and the FBI REFUSED me those files. Wonder WHY considering the mug shot?"


if that was the case, they might not of had the files, only the record of John Chalk Collins. did they say they had his picture?

if they had the file it clearly states T.N. (true name) Duane Lorin Weber alias John Chalk Collins

well Webber

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

smokin99

Haven't looked on the thread yet to see where the conversation about him went in 2010, but I did find out that he was indicted in Butte Montana in Feb 1970 for interstate transportation of a stolen tractor from Seattle to Anaconda.
Haven't found anything about whether it went to trial or not. Lots of stuff about the court cases on the smuggling, and being a fugitive. stuff about the documentary on his team's attempted snowmobile run from Minneapolis to Moscow. "Wild Bill's Run" is on Facebook.

Couple of pictures from early 70s. The one in the airport is 72 or 73. I think he's the one with the ........yep...............briefcase!
I think we might be on to something..... then those flippin hazel eyes ruin everything. .

Would you know the names of all of the guys in the picture. When was this picture made. What do you know about this picture. What assignment were they going on and where to.

The guy with the glasses they are all looking at - so makes me think they are funning around doing a Cooper things at the airport with the glasses.

Curious who all of the guys are. Was on of them a musician later in life? Not famous but played bars with a steel guitar and/or.live in Colorado in 1979.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

mrshutter45

"
After all I could NOT prove I was the widow of John Collins and the FBI REFUSED me those files. Wonder WHY considering the mug shot?"


if that was the case, they might not of had the files, only the record of John Chalk Collins. did they say they had his picture?

if they had the file it clearly states T.N. (true name) Duane Lorin Weber alias John Chalk Collins

well Webber

During the yrs I was communicating with Jefferson - they had the files and then they didn't have the files. We made arrangements for my party to pick up the files and he was denied.
We had everything in order. First they have the files and then they didn't have the files. I still have the communications but of course not the phone conversation between the prison and myself.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I tried to go to the Wild Bill site, because I wanted to hear the music that was mentioned. That man I asked about - who knows his name.

The one messing with the Glasses they were ALL looking at! They were clowning around and that was obvious as the one with the glasses they were all looking at.

What was the name of the people involved in 1972 and what happened to them? Where did they live? What did they do after the artic trip and what was their professions.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[sailshaw 0]

mrshutter

You ask why DB needed help with the door for the airstairs. I have a good friend that was a Flight Attendant in those days and she says a slight pressure differential between the cabin and outside pressure could have given DB a problem, but when the Flight Attendant helped, it was no problem. The Attendants work with those things daily and and know what to do even if it is not covered by the flight manual. This was probably the first time DB had used an actual airstair even though he worked in the Manuals and Handbooks group at Boeing. He did have access to the actual designers of the airstairs and that helped him to know they could be opened in flight. As far as Sheridan not being able to indanger people, he was a machine gunner in the Marines during WWII and was a trained killer. He had a very polite personality and was a real charmer with the ladies. He had all the capabilities and the "perfect alibi" that he was in Nepal. Too perfect and the FBI should have seen through it. The DNA the FBI has of DB's is not at all good and they know it. However, the DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent by DB after Norjak could quickly solve this crime. However, the FBI is like the rest of our government (fixed mind sets and not willing to do the obvious thing to solve the crime).

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[mrshutter45 21]

sailshaw

mrshutter

You ask why DB needed help with the door for the airstairs. I have a good friend that was a Flight Attendant in those days and she says a slight pressure differential between the cabin and outside pressure could have given DB a problem, but when the Flight Attendant helped, it was no problem. The Attendants work with those things daily and and know what to do even if it is not covered by the flight manual. This was probably the first time DB had used an actual airstair even though he worked in the Manuals and Handbooks group at Boeing. He did have access to the actual designers of the airstairs and that helped him to know they could be opened in flight. As far as Sheridan not being able to indanger people, he was a machine gunner in the Marines during WWII and was a trained killer. He had a very polite personality and was a real charmer with the ladies. He had all the capabilities and the "perfect alibi" that he was in Nepal. Too perfect and the FBI should have seen through it. The DNA the FBI has of DB's is not at all good and they know it. However, the DNA under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent by DB after Norjak could quickly solve this crime. However, the FBI is like the rest of our government (fixed mind sets and not willing to do the obvious thing to solve the crime).

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

one would think if they had access to these files the testing would show some sort of problem with the stairs release in flight. the article I posted a page or so back had the stairs pop open at 35,000. this was
also said in the article..."There is a lock that is supposed to prevent [the door opening]....the stairs sometimes get stuck, requiring service before the plane leaves the gate, but [the TWA spokesman] says he doesn't know of another in- flight problem with the stairs." was the cause of Cooper's problem ever said by Tina or anyone else as to what his problem actually was other than he seems to be have trouble with the stairs? did he pull the lever and the stairs dropped 2 feet and he said WTF thinking they would go all the way down? anyone have this answer? I don't recall reading it anywhere......

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

sailshaw

As far as Sheridan not being able to indanger people, he was a machine gunner in the Marines during WWII and was a trained killer.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

Your calling a US Marine a "trained killer", and by implication everyone who has served in the US Military, is beyond the pale.

Did you, or any of your relatives, serve in the US Military at any point or did you just sit on you lazy ass and live off the efforts of other people?

Do you have any proof that the Marine in question ever killed any human or even a wild animal?

Robert99

[georger 197]

Robert99

*********I wonder how much difference there was with thew filming of the movie where the stuntman jumped off the stairs. the plane was going about 150. don't know if they were talking knots or MPH.

I'm sure they did several jumps. here is a pic of the stuntman jumping. note they put the ripcord on the right...

Were the stairs locked or unlocked during these jumps?

Was there turbulence to match the turbulence/icing Rataczak
testified to?

In other words, are the conditions the same. That is crucial.
The oscillations of unlocked stairs everyone testified to the
night of 11-14-71 were real. That condition was not fully
duplicated, could not be duplicated, by the post-hijacking
tests - (people are quick to point that out to me).

they were unlocked, you can see them retract up, but not all the way up. Robert99 says this is due to the slower speed. seems to be a plausible answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ov77VMDy0

Georger, Let me say first that I agree with 377 in that Cooper KNEW that the 727 could be jumped.

Cooper also KNEW that the airliner could take off from Seattle with the stairs unlocked and partly down (despite the claim otherwise by the flight crew). Cooper had an argument with Rataczak over that point and finally said to just take off with the stairs up and locked. But he immediately told Tina (according to Tosaw's book) that he KNEW the aircraft could take off with the stairs unlocked and slightly down.

The severity of the weather in the Portland area has been VASTLY overstated for the period of the hijacking. The aircraft was flying at night, at 10,000 feet, in a relatively stable air mass. If the airliner was flying in something approaching a thunderstorm when Cooper jumped, as implied by Himmelsbach, then that weather would have to be above the 10,000 foot level. And no such weather is mentioned in any report.

In the general area west of Portland on the evening of the hijacking, there is no convection (or vertical air currents such as those found in thunderstorms) producing meteorological conditions indicated in any report. There is mention in the weather hourly sequence reports of about three cloud layers with the top one being an overcast at 5000 feet.

Such stable cloud layers support the existence of a stable air mass in general, that is, only minimal turbulence. The only other turbulence producing capability is that caused by the mountains during high winds aloft conditions which is known as wave turbulence. Neither the winds aloft or the geography on the west side of the Portland area support the possibility of wave turbulence that evening.

The hijacked airliner was basically flying on the "backside of the power curve" during the trip to Reno. This is a less stable area of operation than higher speeds. Consequently, the airliner (which was being hand flown) would wander about their desired "bug" speed but this was not caused by turbulence.

The opening between the bottom of the stairs and the fuselage would undoubtedly vary as a function of the airspeed and wandering around that the airliner was doing. Plus, of course, the position of Cooper on those stairs. In my judgment, it would be a really BAD idea for Cooper to jump from about half way up the stairs since they might move upwards fast enough to strike him before he cleared the aircraft.

Shutter, Some time back some FBI pictures taken during the post-hijacking flight tests were posted here. One of those pictures was taken facing the rear of the airliner and showed the stair area and also a panel of instruments mounted between the pressure vessel and the stair area. The instruments on that panel were exceedingly hard to read. If you can find those pictures again, you might be able to work your magic on the instruments and read what they were actually showing. If one was an airspeed indicator, then that should provide some information about the speeds used in the FBI tests.

Robert99

The turbulence story could be part of H's cover to have Cooper
dead - corpse vanishes in the ... turbulence/vortex.

Will do a "Blevins" and divert away from the stair retraction
issue for the moment until Ive had time to put something
together. Will return to that ...

Here I think are the test photos you are speaking of - maybe
you or shutter can glean something from these ... the dials are
difficult to read but maybe their morphology means something
to someone.

[georger 197]

mrshutter45

******are you speaking of this photo?

Yes. Do you see that black panel with three instruments on it which is mounted on the right side (looking to the rear) and which appears in the top center of the picture?

Is it possible to enlarge that panel enough to read those instruments? I think one of them is going to be a clock (12 numbers) but I was never able to make sense of the other two.

Robert99

Yes, I'm doing this right now, but the best I can do (probably) is show what they read. impossible to read the gauges numbers......


here is one pic.... the bottom gauge (needle) appears to be black or a different color than the two above? still working on different things with the pic...

will try that too -

[georger 197]

smokin99

Haven't looked on the thread yet to see where the conversation about him went in 2010, but I did find out that he was indicted in Butte Montana in Feb 1970 for interstate transportation of a stolen tractor from Seattle to Anaconda.
Haven't found anything about whether it went to trial or not. Lots of stuff about the court cases on the smuggling, and being a fugitive. stuff about the documentary on his team's attempted snowmobile run from Minneapolis to Moscow. "Wild Bill's Run" is on Facebook.

Couple of pictures from early 70s. The one in the airport is 72 or 73. I think he's the one with the ........yep...............briefcase!
I think we might be on to something..... then those flippin hazel eyes ruin everything. .

That photo of the Soggy Bottom Boys is great!

Here! Alison Krauss & Union Station Band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBVnKYOvWcs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALcdFAAojt4

[mrshutter45 21]

I have a little better pic from my last one. looks like the top gauge is a clock. it seems to read 4:56:15 the other two gauges I'm not sure, but Robert99 possibly has some answers....

movie version.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdgrfr0Bkk

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

mrshutter45

I have a little better pic from my last one. looks like the top gauge is a clock. it seems to read 4:56:15 the other two gauges I'm not sure, but Robert99 possibly has some answers....

movie version.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifdgrfr0Bkk

Here is my guess - repeat guess - about the gages. The top one is a clock. Notice that it has 12 numbers (modulo 12) with what appears to be hour, minute, and second hands. There appears to be a knob at the 7 or 8 o'clock position which could be the means to set the clock.

The middle one is a rate of climb indicator. Note that it appears to have only one needle showing and that needle is pointing to what would be the 9 o'clock position if this were a modulo 12 instrument (which it is apparently not). Climb indicators do not have a means to "zero" them and none is visible here. That also rules out a "g meter" which does have a button to "zero" it.

The bottom one appears to be an altimeter with two needles, one showing thousands of feet and the second one showing hundreds (and fractions of hundreds) of feet. But altimeters have knobs for adjusting the barometric pressure and no knob is shown here as far as I can see.

Robert99