Robert99 37 #41276 June 28, 2013 skyjack71 *** Jo, Nothing I have written above supports your idea that the money at Tina Bar was buried by a human. And you have no proof of any kind as to the exact dates the money arrived at the location where it was found. But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it. Robert99 I have my memory and my word - that is NOT proof, but Duane went down the River at Tena's bar and he took something with him and then he threw a bad out at the Red Lion. He also took something down to the river across from the PDX and just West of the PDX. Duane was a litter bug I guess - maybe he was burying candy wrappers! You know Robt YOU make judgementa you should never MAKE - WHAT if I have already PUT Weber on the damn PLANE! YOU have NO idea what I sent to the FBI - none of you have seen the items and you probably never will. A positive ID after 42 yrs will be difficult unless it is something so unforgettable the witness remembers it when placed in front of her.Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41277 June 28, 2013 RobertMBlevinsRobert99 ALSO says in part: Quote'He (Tom Kaye) shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet...' I don't suppose anyone wonders whether all the bills in each packet were assembled in perfect, face-up order? Perhaps a few were upside down the whole time within some of the ransom packets? Although the money had been previously 'set aside' by the bank, no one said the money was stored pre-packed in bundles of roughly a hundred bills each and bound with rubber bands. The bills were probably wrapped originally with the standard paper bands, but during assembly of the packets, it was done rather hastily I would assume. It's very possible some ended up facing this way, others the opposite way, during the assembly process and the adding of the rubber bands. It's known that during the assembly process they tried to fool the hijacker into believing the money wasn't being marked or recorded by varying the size of the bundles. I doubt anyone involved in preparing the bundles for delivery cared which way the individual bills faced. The main goal would be to put them together as quickly as possible and get them to the airport before the hijacker decides to blow up the jet. Blevins, Go to Tom Kaye's web page and read his analysis about the money. What you have written above doesn't make sense to me but it does indicate you didn't understand what I was saying in the original post. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41278 June 28, 2013 Robert99*** The evidence reported by Tom Kaye is that at least one packet of the money found at Tina Bar had been exposed to a "torque" while on the river bank. This torqueing, plus the height above sea level (and river level) at which the money was found, suggests that the money was in the process of ENTERING the Columbia River. In plain English, the Tina Bar money had never been in the Columbia itself in the first place. Quote Torqueing ? Has Tom revised his website/analysis? Guess I will have to find out for myself. This is news to me. Any photos of torque? Measurements? Georger, Take a look in the "Money Find" section, "Money Analysis" subsection, of Tom Kaye's web page. As of February 22, 2013, on his web page, Tom had a Figure 7 in the "Money Analysis" subsection that illustrates the positions of some of the bills while buried. He shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet. I described this movement as being the result of having a counter-clockwise "torque" applied to the packet. The physical force required to produce this torque is water running down the bank and into the Columbia River. I suggest that you read the entire "Money Find" section and "Money Analysis" subsections again. The above was discussed, or at least I wrote about it, on this thread several weeks ago. Robert99Quote Ok, so rotation not torque. Makes sense now. Ive seen that illustration. Tom presents that illustration then later talks about 'perfect alignment' ? Ink bleeding through due to bills being in 'perfect alignment'? That there was not perfect alignment of the bills stacked might mean something in terms of the forces acting on the bills in situ but beyond that I see no deep meaning in this ... the Ingrams took no photos of the bills when found, as they were removing them, when they were at their apartment being pulled apart and sorted in the kitchen .... etc. The first photos of the bills I know of were with H at the Portland office, laid out on a table in piles for the press event. We know the Ingrams tried to separate and soak and pull and clean as many bills as possible at their apartment - their first intent was to redeem the bills for cash at a bank. How the bills got put back together to take to the FBI office or were sorted into piles and laid out for the press event at the office ... I do not know. In fact, Mrs Ingram is still alive and might remember ... but she seldom talks to anyone directly - everything always comes through Brian. I just dont get Tom saying 'perfect alignment' on the one hand then showing an illustration proving non-perfect alignment. I thought 'perfect alignment' was being used to support hand burial as opposed to natural forces. Then it turns out there is non-perfect alignment which would tend to support mixed natural forces. And you speculate the direction of force was from above (further up the bank), ie rain and melt water. Let me leave it at that for the time being. Thanks for clarifying 'torque'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #41279 June 28, 2013 mrshutter45 'All of that was based on the original search area announced." the original search area they couldn't even search from the air correctly due to cloud coverage. someone sent me documents pertaining to the issues the SR-71 had trying to photograph the drop zone. he gave permission to post them....thanks SM The SR 71 docs were one of many amazing finds by Snowmman. I wish Quade would lift the ban. Snowmman probably already had all the NSA documents that Snowden thought he was releasing for the first time. The designers of server processor chips have incredible opportunities for mischief. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41280 June 28, 2013 RobertMBlevinsThe rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in. Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled. Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant. And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place. Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page. I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41281 June 28, 2013 377 ***'All of that was based on the original search area announced." the original search area they couldn't even search from the air correctly due to cloud coverage. someone sent me documents pertaining to the issues the SR-71 had trying to photograph the drop zone. he gave permission to post them....thanks SM The SR 71 docs were one of many amazing finds by Snowmman. I wish Quade would lift the ban. Snowmman probably already had all the NSA documents that Snowden thought he was releasing for the first time. The designers of server processor chips have incredible opportunities for mischief. 377 Quade, I want to second 377's request for lifting the ban on Snowmman. Don't be like one of the current posters whose candidate for D.B. Cooper is a fellow who stiffed him out of $5 rent more than 50 years ago. That poster remembers ever single "slight" and there is no forgiveness as far as he is concerned. Quade, you are bigger than that poster. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41282 June 28, 2013 Robert99***The rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in. Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled. Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant. And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place. Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page. I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times. Robert99Quote location, location, location. forget the epicycles! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41283 June 28, 2013 RobertMBlevinsWell, if the bills didn't come from the water and the water was only a few feet away from where they were found... They didn't quite make it but other packets of the bills, and Cooper himself, may have made it into the Columbia. If they did, their remains may have made a few circuits of the Pacific by now. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41284 June 28, 2013 mrshutter45the 205 bridge was completed in 83 I believe. this is almost 7 miles east of the flight path. what would be the reason for mentioning the bridge? or purpose so far away from the known flight path? The only reason to mention the bridge is say it was NOT there in 1979, but it was there in 2010. Since someone else was doing the driving for the documentary in 2001 - I do NOT know it is was there in 2001, but you say it was. I only was trying to relay it was not there in 1979. All I was trying to do was relay what I remembered. I have not gone back to review the post..my energy is currently being use to try to stay out of the hospital.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41285 June 28, 2013 Quote if you don't have the proper maps, how can you be so critical about things when speaking? same with the population growth. I believe I probably stated I was working thur my memories of the trip. I did NOT need a map to recall my memories - but memories can be random. I have some maps from 2010 I purchased and others that Sluggo gave me. The map he provide zero in on my memories, but I have a hard time reading maps - always have. Amazing - huh! I can remember what I see but I can no longer balance my check book to the penny and I still have a very hard time with maps. The old maps are great - the new maps are too cluttered and too difficult to read. Quote If I find something wrong with the path you can rest assure I will advise the proper people of the findings and not just claim them on here. currently I'm am having issue's from Toledo to Merwin. the time is not lining up, but you don't see me telling everyone the path is wrong. the testing takes time to insure everything is correct. I don't have 20 hours a week to work on the project so it takes longer than expected... That is the way it should be done and I commend you with the details you address. YOU are not just SHUTTER man - who are you really?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41286 June 28, 2013 skyjack71Roads and subdivisions: I do NOT have a Portland map from 1971, but what I remember from 1979 was the remarks that Duane made. The current 205 bridge was NOT there. . I just quoted my comment on the bridge - I even have the number wrong and what I was referring to was the new bridge they built (the big one) - it was NOT there in 1979. It was there on my 2010 trip because I used it to get to and from the airport...if it was finished in 2001 when I went - I do not remember the documentary crew using it - perhaps it was still under construction! I am NOT trying to confuse any issues. In 2001 I was at the mercy of students hired to act as quides for the crew and myself - the guide / driver had ONLY BEEN living in WA for 2 yrs! I hate CAMERAS and I was very nervous about so many people and they did everything very fast. Had it not have been for some people who took me in - for a couple of days and actually lived in the area and showed me the places AFTER the crew left - the trip would have been for ought! They did MORE damage to the investigation than good. Remember JT's 2 page newpaper spread he go about the TAXI driver. After that he dissed every suspect that came along - He wasted 4 plus yr discrediting me in every way he could. But, I had trusted him with the same information I have told in this thread - then he came to this thread 6 yrs plus after I severed contact with him and dissed me in the thread - NOW you know the motive. He and I have made peace but I will never ever forgive him. Big diffence between peace and forgiving...they do NOT always go hand in hand.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41287 June 29, 2013 Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. OLD lady common sense. Make fun of it but, I was with him the day he took a walk down to the beach at Tena's bar and told me to stay in the car. he had on a blue nylon wind breaker - the pocket were large enough to hold several bundles of banded money. When he got back in the car is when he put a paper sack near his gas pedal foot and then that is when I ASKED him what the bag was for and he told me it was trash he was going to get rid of at the next stop. That next stop was THE RED LION INN! Give me a lie detector test - have me swear under oath - anything - whatever it takes. Even a truth serum if the Dr.s will allow it for me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41288 June 29, 2013 it's my understanding they believe the bills were there for about a year. "The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar." Sept 79 to Feb 80 is 5-6 months???????????????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41289 June 29, 2013 skyjack71 Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. Jo, The money was reportedly found in a flat position with only one layer. If some of the money was buried in a more or less vertical position, then that would have been evident to who pulled it out of the ground, rather than just brushed the sand off of it. And that rules out your suggestion. My use of the term "torque" is correctly stated but the term "rotation" may make more sense to you. Basically, the bills shown in the referenced sections of Tom Kaye's web page indicate that one end of the packet of bills stayed close to its original position while the other end of the packet spread out. This is somewhat like what you do when you are holding a hand of cards (poker, bridge, etc.). If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41290 June 29, 2013 mrshutter45it's my understanding they believe the bills were there for about a year. "The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar." Sept 79 to Feb 80 is 5-6 months??????????????? The terminology used was LESS than a yr. ALSO we do NOT know where the money was stored prior to 1979. Duane kept a metal file box in the trunk and it was locked---I would later learn that was were he kept his old tax report (they did NOT fill up that file box), He may have had contained the old magazines and the ticket and other momentos from his past and his family. I think he retrived the money from were ever he went for 5 1/2 hours that morning he disappeared...at THE DALLES. He also disappeared the entire afternoon before our last night in Seattle. I have thought perhaps he was NOT with the other agents and he rented a room to check out his package and found some of it was still good, but part of it was not spendable. Remember he went to supposedly see the wife of a friend in The Dalles area, but he was dead and she supposedly asked him to move something in the shed. His explanation for being soiled when he returned to the motel in The Dalles. Since I do NOT know were he was during those 2 time spans - what I have stated is PURE theory. I have stated this many time. The money may have already been in a deterioated condition created in the storage area with mold or mildew or mite or silverfish or what-ever other culprits existed in the areas. Those holes in the money could have come from the "storage" place. When he disappeared in Seattle, I did ask him were he had been because he was NOT with the other agents. They had not seen him since noon. Duane said he had looked up an old friend, but never told me who that friend was. I think it was another hotel room. We were late for the banquet and I did NOT address the problem the next day - I already knew NOT to ask too many questions and he didn't ask me about my prior marriage - outside of when he first met me and when we went to see my family who retired to FL.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41291 June 29, 2013 Robert99 If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 Robert: I have dial up and can view very little other than searches - no videos nor get the news. I do NOT use public equipment because I require a specific set up with my seating and the distance the screen is from my face and how high it is....NO need to explain that any further. Thank you for a decent explanation of torgue. That could also happen if he had them in his pockets - or when he took them out of the bag or put them in the bag or retrived them from where ever they were hidden.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41292 June 29, 2013 Robert99 *** Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. Jo, The money was reportedly found in a flat position with only one layer. If some of the money was buried in a more or less vertical position, then that would have been evident to who pulled it out of the ground, rather than just brushed the sand off of it. And that rules out your suggestion. My use of the term "torque" is correctly stated but the term "rotation" may make more sense to you. Basically, the bills shown in the referenced sections of Tom Kaye's web page indicate that one end of the packet of bills stayed close to its original position while the other end of the packet spread out. This is somewhat like what you do when you are holding a hand of cards (poker, bridge, etc.). If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 one could wonder about a plant, but only if someone was hot on your trail. Cooper was 8 years old and a very cold case. why would he plant the money to throw them off the trail....what trail???? putting the money in containers? why, what was then purpose of the crime.....kicks? doubtful. like most unsolved cases we have a "Government cover up" will surface in these cases simply because no answers have been found. The Government would have never done the operation in this manor leaving the case wide open for pot shots year after year. they would either quickly capture him, or find him dead very soon after the crime or "operation" I see lot's of "could be" and "what if's" turn into facts? I wonder how many people email and call the FBI about Cooper on a daily or weekly basis thinking they have the answers? my guess would be none....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41293 June 29, 2013 about one year Jo.....that would be 10-12 months. not 4 or 5! do you have any pictures or anything showing you were in Washington in 1979?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41294 June 29, 2013 Robert99 Jo, Nothing I have written above supports your idea that the money at Tina Bar was buried by a human. And you have no proof of any kind as to the exact dates the money arrived at the location where it was found. But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it. Robert99 Well, Robert99 - the ONLY people who can state that would be FBI or some other government organization.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41295 June 29, 2013 mrshutter45about one year Jo.....that would be 10-12 months. not 4 or 5! do you have any pictures or anything showing you were in Washington in 1979? Less than a yr - who are you quoting Kaye or Palmer? Palmer said less than a yr! I have negatives of The Market, but that was the only place I took pics, beside the room. It was raining and the pics of the Market Place were bad - but I never destroy negatives. Duane was at a manager's meeting for Family Life Ins and I am not sure I kept the news letter. After Duane died I threw away lots of things. At one time I had the flyer they gave us to find the site of the meetings. It maybe with the 1979 tax reports. I have the pics made in the room and I am sure the hotel probably has some of the decor of past days in pictures with the history of the building. This is where Duane bought me the pinky ring - an old black hills gold ring at the Eye of the Needle after dinner one night. I expect there might be something with the tax records. If you are inferring I made up the trip - you would have to be out of your mind. NO way! We toured the new MASSIVE computer they had put in and were so proud of. The president of the company was McMillian and we called him Max. I forget his first name right now. Max and Duane engaged in a conversation about the bridge being out after the flood. Max told him he still had to take the ferry over. Max noted that Duane knew a lot about WA. I was surprised at Duane's answer - how very appropriate now that I know is past. "I spent some time here!" and I think he stated a time frame but my mind will not let me remember the details of the conversation. Max and Duane talked in detail about Seattle, but someone engaged me in conversation so I did not hear everything that was said. Remember I was reading the direction flyer for on of the parties and the gave us a Seattle map. I told Duane he was not going the right way and he said this is just a short cut. Yea, a short cut it was not it was a detour to the airport and this is when he told me the fence was not like he remembered it...(it did change). He did NOT mention that was a sight of plane that had been hijacked. The pointed to a building on street over that was 2 storys tall and told me it used to be a motel, but now it was office building. SO he knew WA and obviously he was there before and after the motel became an office. Geeze - you asked a simple question and I just couldn't shut up! I get on a roll and I just keep on rolling.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41296 June 29, 2013 "Less than a yr - who are you quoting Kaye or Palmer? Palmer said less than a yr!" the quote came from you. "The terminology used was LESS than a yr." The oxidation of sulfur in rubber bands is a well understood process and in fact, the first experiments to detect ozone in Los Angeles used rubber bands around jars [5]. The dual experiments performed here under conditions that are thought to be close analogues of for the bundles on Tena Bar, place an upper limit of about a year on the survivability of the Cooper rubber bands. The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar why would Duane bury the money? how do you explain his expenses in the past that you said probably wasn't from stealing? it doesn't make sense. you claim is was broke but bought lots of things, but also buried the money in a pail/milk can/plastic container? went back dug it up and threw it in the river. I'm a little confused on this...... why would you not have evidence available showing you were in Washington? might have, maybe? yes it should be on the taxes. these are things important in proving something."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41297 June 29, 2013 skyjack71Max and Duane engaged in a conversation about the bridge being out after the flood. Jo, What bridge are you talking about, what were the dates of the flood, and what were the dates that you were there? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41298 June 29, 2013 this is where things really get confusing Jo. a couple hours ago you stated this: "OLD lady common sense. Make fun of it but, I was with him the day he took a walk down to the beach at Tena's bar and told me to stay in the car. he had on a blue nylon wind breaker - the pocket were large enough to hold several bundles of banded money." July 3, 2008 you said this. OK. Duane went NO WHERE near Tena's bar. The closest we got was the Red Lion Inn at the bridge. this doesn't sound good here Jo???? here is the post...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41299 June 29, 2013 Remember what we have learned in the last few yrs about Duane Weber. He usually made a mistake and ended up in prison! If the money was damaged - you can bet the places he told me to stay in the car or went on ahead of me - he got rid of the evidence. Remember how GIDDY he was when her returned from were ever he had spent the afternoon. Just like he was on that damn plane when they delivered the money. Duane made lots of mistakes in his life - he was always looking over his shoulder...the way his eyes would dart around the room - either casing out a hit or afraid there was someone in the room who might recognize him and rat him out to me. We didn't argue and we enjoyed each others companionship, he was a GOOD father, handyman around the house (nothing he couldn't fix or repair). No one including me could find the repaired chair - that is how good he was. Duane made compulsive decisions and he did some really stupid things from what I have found about his past. I expect when he told me about the guy who was arrested in St.Pete and when asked his occupation he said "Crook I guess". My comment was with a laugh "That was Stupid!" Then just about 3 yrs ago you guys came up with the Treasure Isle arrest when the FBI had NEVER EVEN told me about this - why? I learned about the Treasure Isle incident on a public thread and THAT is WHEN I REALIZED Duane Weber had told me about his life in third person. That was the moment that all of the stories he had told me about knowing a boy or use to know a guy who did this or that - he WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF! This was when the pieces of the puzzle started to just fall into place over and over. My mind started to remember the 3rd person stories...and they just kept coming. Suddenly my life with Duane Weber started to make sense. The man without a past had something to hide. 12 yrs of marriage I didn't know he was an excon until 1995. When we had only been together for a few month and living in CO. Duane had the night mare about the Aft stairs - waking up screaming and reaching up in to the air. "I'm going to Die, I left my prints on the aft stairs". He had been mumbling in his sleep just before he made the statement and then the BLOOD CURDLING SCREAM!. He got up had some Brandy - he was shaking. HE also took a pill, but I do not know what it was. I asked him what was Aft stairs and he said it was the stairs in a jail. I remember I was getting scared and repeated "Jail" with a little alarm in my voice. He quickly made it sound like he was real young and he got into some trouble with a couple of boys - made it sound like a county reformatory. I asked what Aft stairs was - and he just said it was the stairway in the jail. I didn't know any differnce - I took his word. Part of why when I was reading MAX's book in 1996 and found the plane stair way was called Aft Stair that I freaked and was on the phone to the FBI. I do NOT remember how many times I called them that night but it was at least 3 times. What does any of the above have to do with The Idiot Plant? I know, but for right now I will keep it to myself. If you want to get rid of evidence - you deep six it!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41300 June 29, 2013 Robert, do you know how wide V-23 is considered to be?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1647 1648 1649 1650 1651 1652 1653 1654 1655 1656 1657 Next Page 1652 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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377 21 #41279 June 28, 2013 mrshutter45 'All of that was based on the original search area announced." the original search area they couldn't even search from the air correctly due to cloud coverage. someone sent me documents pertaining to the issues the SR-71 had trying to photograph the drop zone. he gave permission to post them....thanks SM The SR 71 docs were one of many amazing finds by Snowmman. I wish Quade would lift the ban. Snowmman probably already had all the NSA documents that Snowden thought he was releasing for the first time. The designers of server processor chips have incredible opportunities for mischief. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41280 June 28, 2013 RobertMBlevinsThe rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in. Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled. Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant. And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place. Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page. I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41281 June 28, 2013 377 ***'All of that was based on the original search area announced." the original search area they couldn't even search from the air correctly due to cloud coverage. someone sent me documents pertaining to the issues the SR-71 had trying to photograph the drop zone. he gave permission to post them....thanks SM The SR 71 docs were one of many amazing finds by Snowmman. I wish Quade would lift the ban. Snowmman probably already had all the NSA documents that Snowden thought he was releasing for the first time. The designers of server processor chips have incredible opportunities for mischief. 377 Quade, I want to second 377's request for lifting the ban on Snowmman. Don't be like one of the current posters whose candidate for D.B. Cooper is a fellow who stiffed him out of $5 rent more than 50 years ago. That poster remembers ever single "slight" and there is no forgiveness as far as he is concerned. Quade, you are bigger than that poster. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41282 June 28, 2013 Robert99***The rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in. Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled. Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant. And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place. Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page. I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times. Robert99Quote location, location, location. forget the epicycles! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41283 June 28, 2013 RobertMBlevinsWell, if the bills didn't come from the water and the water was only a few feet away from where they were found... They didn't quite make it but other packets of the bills, and Cooper himself, may have made it into the Columbia. If they did, their remains may have made a few circuits of the Pacific by now. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41284 June 28, 2013 mrshutter45the 205 bridge was completed in 83 I believe. this is almost 7 miles east of the flight path. what would be the reason for mentioning the bridge? or purpose so far away from the known flight path? The only reason to mention the bridge is say it was NOT there in 1979, but it was there in 2010. Since someone else was doing the driving for the documentary in 2001 - I do NOT know it is was there in 2001, but you say it was. I only was trying to relay it was not there in 1979. All I was trying to do was relay what I remembered. I have not gone back to review the post..my energy is currently being use to try to stay out of the hospital.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41285 June 28, 2013 Quote if you don't have the proper maps, how can you be so critical about things when speaking? same with the population growth. I believe I probably stated I was working thur my memories of the trip. I did NOT need a map to recall my memories - but memories can be random. I have some maps from 2010 I purchased and others that Sluggo gave me. The map he provide zero in on my memories, but I have a hard time reading maps - always have. Amazing - huh! I can remember what I see but I can no longer balance my check book to the penny and I still have a very hard time with maps. The old maps are great - the new maps are too cluttered and too difficult to read. Quote If I find something wrong with the path you can rest assure I will advise the proper people of the findings and not just claim them on here. currently I'm am having issue's from Toledo to Merwin. the time is not lining up, but you don't see me telling everyone the path is wrong. the testing takes time to insure everything is correct. I don't have 20 hours a week to work on the project so it takes longer than expected... That is the way it should be done and I commend you with the details you address. YOU are not just SHUTTER man - who are you really?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41286 June 28, 2013 skyjack71Roads and subdivisions: I do NOT have a Portland map from 1971, but what I remember from 1979 was the remarks that Duane made. The current 205 bridge was NOT there. . I just quoted my comment on the bridge - I even have the number wrong and what I was referring to was the new bridge they built (the big one) - it was NOT there in 1979. It was there on my 2010 trip because I used it to get to and from the airport...if it was finished in 2001 when I went - I do not remember the documentary crew using it - perhaps it was still under construction! I am NOT trying to confuse any issues. In 2001 I was at the mercy of students hired to act as quides for the crew and myself - the guide / driver had ONLY BEEN living in WA for 2 yrs! I hate CAMERAS and I was very nervous about so many people and they did everything very fast. Had it not have been for some people who took me in - for a couple of days and actually lived in the area and showed me the places AFTER the crew left - the trip would have been for ought! They did MORE damage to the investigation than good. Remember JT's 2 page newpaper spread he go about the TAXI driver. After that he dissed every suspect that came along - He wasted 4 plus yr discrediting me in every way he could. But, I had trusted him with the same information I have told in this thread - then he came to this thread 6 yrs plus after I severed contact with him and dissed me in the thread - NOW you know the motive. He and I have made peace but I will never ever forgive him. Big diffence between peace and forgiving...they do NOT always go hand in hand.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41287 June 29, 2013 Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. OLD lady common sense. Make fun of it but, I was with him the day he took a walk down to the beach at Tena's bar and told me to stay in the car. he had on a blue nylon wind breaker - the pocket were large enough to hold several bundles of banded money. When he got back in the car is when he put a paper sack near his gas pedal foot and then that is when I ASKED him what the bag was for and he told me it was trash he was going to get rid of at the next stop. That next stop was THE RED LION INN! Give me a lie detector test - have me swear under oath - anything - whatever it takes. Even a truth serum if the Dr.s will allow it for me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41288 June 29, 2013 it's my understanding they believe the bills were there for about a year. "The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar." Sept 79 to Feb 80 is 5-6 months???????????????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41289 June 29, 2013 skyjack71 Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. Jo, The money was reportedly found in a flat position with only one layer. If some of the money was buried in a more or less vertical position, then that would have been evident to who pulled it out of the ground, rather than just brushed the sand off of it. And that rules out your suggestion. My use of the term "torque" is correctly stated but the term "rotation" may make more sense to you. Basically, the bills shown in the referenced sections of Tom Kaye's web page indicate that one end of the packet of bills stayed close to its original position while the other end of the packet spread out. This is somewhat like what you do when you are holding a hand of cards (poker, bridge, etc.). If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41290 June 29, 2013 mrshutter45it's my understanding they believe the bills were there for about a year. "The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar." Sept 79 to Feb 80 is 5-6 months??????????????? The terminology used was LESS than a yr. ALSO we do NOT know where the money was stored prior to 1979. Duane kept a metal file box in the trunk and it was locked---I would later learn that was were he kept his old tax report (they did NOT fill up that file box), He may have had contained the old magazines and the ticket and other momentos from his past and his family. I think he retrived the money from were ever he went for 5 1/2 hours that morning he disappeared...at THE DALLES. He also disappeared the entire afternoon before our last night in Seattle. I have thought perhaps he was NOT with the other agents and he rented a room to check out his package and found some of it was still good, but part of it was not spendable. Remember he went to supposedly see the wife of a friend in The Dalles area, but he was dead and she supposedly asked him to move something in the shed. His explanation for being soiled when he returned to the motel in The Dalles. Since I do NOT know were he was during those 2 time spans - what I have stated is PURE theory. I have stated this many time. The money may have already been in a deterioated condition created in the storage area with mold or mildew or mite or silverfish or what-ever other culprits existed in the areas. Those holes in the money could have come from the "storage" place. When he disappeared in Seattle, I did ask him were he had been because he was NOT with the other agents. They had not seen him since noon. Duane said he had looked up an old friend, but never told me who that friend was. I think it was another hotel room. We were late for the banquet and I did NOT address the problem the next day - I already knew NOT to ask too many questions and he didn't ask me about my prior marriage - outside of when he first met me and when we went to see my family who retired to FL.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41291 June 29, 2013 Robert99 If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 Robert: I have dial up and can view very little other than searches - no videos nor get the news. I do NOT use public equipment because I require a specific set up with my seating and the distance the screen is from my face and how high it is....NO need to explain that any further. Thank you for a decent explanation of torgue. That could also happen if he had them in his pockets - or when he took them out of the bag or put them in the bag or retrived them from where ever they were hidden.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41292 June 29, 2013 Robert99 *** Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. Jo, The money was reportedly found in a flat position with only one layer. If some of the money was buried in a more or less vertical position, then that would have been evident to who pulled it out of the ground, rather than just brushed the sand off of it. And that rules out your suggestion. My use of the term "torque" is correctly stated but the term "rotation" may make more sense to you. Basically, the bills shown in the referenced sections of Tom Kaye's web page indicate that one end of the packet of bills stayed close to its original position while the other end of the packet spread out. This is somewhat like what you do when you are holding a hand of cards (poker, bridge, etc.). If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 one could wonder about a plant, but only if someone was hot on your trail. Cooper was 8 years old and a very cold case. why would he plant the money to throw them off the trail....what trail???? putting the money in containers? why, what was then purpose of the crime.....kicks? doubtful. like most unsolved cases we have a "Government cover up" will surface in these cases simply because no answers have been found. The Government would have never done the operation in this manor leaving the case wide open for pot shots year after year. they would either quickly capture him, or find him dead very soon after the crime or "operation" I see lot's of "could be" and "what if's" turn into facts? I wonder how many people email and call the FBI about Cooper on a daily or weekly basis thinking they have the answers? my guess would be none....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41293 June 29, 2013 about one year Jo.....that would be 10-12 months. not 4 or 5! do you have any pictures or anything showing you were in Washington in 1979?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41294 June 29, 2013 Robert99 Jo, Nothing I have written above supports your idea that the money at Tina Bar was buried by a human. And you have no proof of any kind as to the exact dates the money arrived at the location where it was found. But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it. Robert99 Well, Robert99 - the ONLY people who can state that would be FBI or some other government organization.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41295 June 29, 2013 mrshutter45about one year Jo.....that would be 10-12 months. not 4 or 5! do you have any pictures or anything showing you were in Washington in 1979? Less than a yr - who are you quoting Kaye or Palmer? Palmer said less than a yr! I have negatives of The Market, but that was the only place I took pics, beside the room. It was raining and the pics of the Market Place were bad - but I never destroy negatives. Duane was at a manager's meeting for Family Life Ins and I am not sure I kept the news letter. After Duane died I threw away lots of things. At one time I had the flyer they gave us to find the site of the meetings. It maybe with the 1979 tax reports. I have the pics made in the room and I am sure the hotel probably has some of the decor of past days in pictures with the history of the building. This is where Duane bought me the pinky ring - an old black hills gold ring at the Eye of the Needle after dinner one night. I expect there might be something with the tax records. If you are inferring I made up the trip - you would have to be out of your mind. NO way! We toured the new MASSIVE computer they had put in and were so proud of. The president of the company was McMillian and we called him Max. I forget his first name right now. Max and Duane engaged in a conversation about the bridge being out after the flood. Max told him he still had to take the ferry over. Max noted that Duane knew a lot about WA. I was surprised at Duane's answer - how very appropriate now that I know is past. "I spent some time here!" and I think he stated a time frame but my mind will not let me remember the details of the conversation. Max and Duane talked in detail about Seattle, but someone engaged me in conversation so I did not hear everything that was said. Remember I was reading the direction flyer for on of the parties and the gave us a Seattle map. I told Duane he was not going the right way and he said this is just a short cut. Yea, a short cut it was not it was a detour to the airport and this is when he told me the fence was not like he remembered it...(it did change). He did NOT mention that was a sight of plane that had been hijacked. The pointed to a building on street over that was 2 storys tall and told me it used to be a motel, but now it was office building. SO he knew WA and obviously he was there before and after the motel became an office. Geeze - you asked a simple question and I just couldn't shut up! I get on a roll and I just keep on rolling.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41296 June 29, 2013 "Less than a yr - who are you quoting Kaye or Palmer? Palmer said less than a yr!" the quote came from you. "The terminology used was LESS than a yr." The oxidation of sulfur in rubber bands is a well understood process and in fact, the first experiments to detect ozone in Los Angeles used rubber bands around jars [5]. The dual experiments performed here under conditions that are thought to be close analogues of for the bundles on Tena Bar, place an upper limit of about a year on the survivability of the Cooper rubber bands. The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar why would Duane bury the money? how do you explain his expenses in the past that you said probably wasn't from stealing? it doesn't make sense. you claim is was broke but bought lots of things, but also buried the money in a pail/milk can/plastic container? went back dug it up and threw it in the river. I'm a little confused on this...... why would you not have evidence available showing you were in Washington? might have, maybe? yes it should be on the taxes. these are things important in proving something."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41297 June 29, 2013 skyjack71Max and Duane engaged in a conversation about the bridge being out after the flood. Jo, What bridge are you talking about, what were the dates of the flood, and what were the dates that you were there? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41298 June 29, 2013 this is where things really get confusing Jo. a couple hours ago you stated this: "OLD lady common sense. Make fun of it but, I was with him the day he took a walk down to the beach at Tena's bar and told me to stay in the car. he had on a blue nylon wind breaker - the pocket were large enough to hold several bundles of banded money." July 3, 2008 you said this. OK. Duane went NO WHERE near Tena's bar. The closest we got was the Red Lion Inn at the bridge. this doesn't sound good here Jo???? here is the post...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41299 June 29, 2013 Remember what we have learned in the last few yrs about Duane Weber. He usually made a mistake and ended up in prison! If the money was damaged - you can bet the places he told me to stay in the car or went on ahead of me - he got rid of the evidence. Remember how GIDDY he was when her returned from were ever he had spent the afternoon. Just like he was on that damn plane when they delivered the money. Duane made lots of mistakes in his life - he was always looking over his shoulder...the way his eyes would dart around the room - either casing out a hit or afraid there was someone in the room who might recognize him and rat him out to me. We didn't argue and we enjoyed each others companionship, he was a GOOD father, handyman around the house (nothing he couldn't fix or repair). No one including me could find the repaired chair - that is how good he was. Duane made compulsive decisions and he did some really stupid things from what I have found about his past. I expect when he told me about the guy who was arrested in St.Pete and when asked his occupation he said "Crook I guess". My comment was with a laugh "That was Stupid!" Then just about 3 yrs ago you guys came up with the Treasure Isle arrest when the FBI had NEVER EVEN told me about this - why? I learned about the Treasure Isle incident on a public thread and THAT is WHEN I REALIZED Duane Weber had told me about his life in third person. That was the moment that all of the stories he had told me about knowing a boy or use to know a guy who did this or that - he WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF! This was when the pieces of the puzzle started to just fall into place over and over. My mind started to remember the 3rd person stories...and they just kept coming. Suddenly my life with Duane Weber started to make sense. The man without a past had something to hide. 12 yrs of marriage I didn't know he was an excon until 1995. When we had only been together for a few month and living in CO. Duane had the night mare about the Aft stairs - waking up screaming and reaching up in to the air. "I'm going to Die, I left my prints on the aft stairs". He had been mumbling in his sleep just before he made the statement and then the BLOOD CURDLING SCREAM!. He got up had some Brandy - he was shaking. HE also took a pill, but I do not know what it was. I asked him what was Aft stairs and he said it was the stairs in a jail. I remember I was getting scared and repeated "Jail" with a little alarm in my voice. He quickly made it sound like he was real young and he got into some trouble with a couple of boys - made it sound like a county reformatory. I asked what Aft stairs was - and he just said it was the stairway in the jail. I didn't know any differnce - I took his word. Part of why when I was reading MAX's book in 1996 and found the plane stair way was called Aft Stair that I freaked and was on the phone to the FBI. I do NOT remember how many times I called them that night but it was at least 3 times. What does any of the above have to do with The Idiot Plant? I know, but for right now I will keep it to myself. If you want to get rid of evidence - you deep six it!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41300 June 29, 2013 Robert, do you know how wide V-23 is considered to be?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1647 1648 1649 1650 1651 1652 1653 1654 1655 1656 1657 Next Page 1652 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Robert99 37 #41283 June 28, 2013 RobertMBlevinsWell, if the bills didn't come from the water and the water was only a few feet away from where they were found... They didn't quite make it but other packets of the bills, and Cooper himself, may have made it into the Columbia. If they did, their remains may have made a few circuits of the Pacific by now. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41284 June 28, 2013 mrshutter45the 205 bridge was completed in 83 I believe. this is almost 7 miles east of the flight path. what would be the reason for mentioning the bridge? or purpose so far away from the known flight path? The only reason to mention the bridge is say it was NOT there in 1979, but it was there in 2010. Since someone else was doing the driving for the documentary in 2001 - I do NOT know it is was there in 2001, but you say it was. I only was trying to relay it was not there in 1979. All I was trying to do was relay what I remembered. I have not gone back to review the post..my energy is currently being use to try to stay out of the hospital.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41285 June 28, 2013 Quote if you don't have the proper maps, how can you be so critical about things when speaking? same with the population growth. I believe I probably stated I was working thur my memories of the trip. I did NOT need a map to recall my memories - but memories can be random. I have some maps from 2010 I purchased and others that Sluggo gave me. The map he provide zero in on my memories, but I have a hard time reading maps - always have. Amazing - huh! I can remember what I see but I can no longer balance my check book to the penny and I still have a very hard time with maps. The old maps are great - the new maps are too cluttered and too difficult to read. Quote If I find something wrong with the path you can rest assure I will advise the proper people of the findings and not just claim them on here. currently I'm am having issue's from Toledo to Merwin. the time is not lining up, but you don't see me telling everyone the path is wrong. the testing takes time to insure everything is correct. I don't have 20 hours a week to work on the project so it takes longer than expected... That is the way it should be done and I commend you with the details you address. YOU are not just SHUTTER man - who are you really?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41286 June 28, 2013 skyjack71Roads and subdivisions: I do NOT have a Portland map from 1971, but what I remember from 1979 was the remarks that Duane made. The current 205 bridge was NOT there. . I just quoted my comment on the bridge - I even have the number wrong and what I was referring to was the new bridge they built (the big one) - it was NOT there in 1979. It was there on my 2010 trip because I used it to get to and from the airport...if it was finished in 2001 when I went - I do not remember the documentary crew using it - perhaps it was still under construction! I am NOT trying to confuse any issues. In 2001 I was at the mercy of students hired to act as quides for the crew and myself - the guide / driver had ONLY BEEN living in WA for 2 yrs! I hate CAMERAS and I was very nervous about so many people and they did everything very fast. Had it not have been for some people who took me in - for a couple of days and actually lived in the area and showed me the places AFTER the crew left - the trip would have been for ought! They did MORE damage to the investigation than good. Remember JT's 2 page newpaper spread he go about the TAXI driver. After that he dissed every suspect that came along - He wasted 4 plus yr discrediting me in every way he could. But, I had trusted him with the same information I have told in this thread - then he came to this thread 6 yrs plus after I severed contact with him and dissed me in the thread - NOW you know the motive. He and I have made peace but I will never ever forgive him. Big diffence between peace and forgiving...they do NOT always go hand in hand.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41287 June 29, 2013 Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. OLD lady common sense. Make fun of it but, I was with him the day he took a walk down to the beach at Tena's bar and told me to stay in the car. he had on a blue nylon wind breaker - the pocket were large enough to hold several bundles of banded money. When he got back in the car is when he put a paper sack near his gas pedal foot and then that is when I ASKED him what the bag was for and he told me it was trash he was going to get rid of at the next stop. That next stop was THE RED LION INN! Give me a lie detector test - have me swear under oath - anything - whatever it takes. Even a truth serum if the Dr.s will allow it for me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41288 June 29, 2013 it's my understanding they believe the bills were there for about a year. "The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar." Sept 79 to Feb 80 is 5-6 months???????????????"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41289 June 29, 2013 skyjack71 Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. Jo, The money was reportedly found in a flat position with only one layer. If some of the money was buried in a more or less vertical position, then that would have been evident to who pulled it out of the ground, rather than just brushed the sand off of it. And that rules out your suggestion. My use of the term "torque" is correctly stated but the term "rotation" may make more sense to you. Basically, the bills shown in the referenced sections of Tom Kaye's web page indicate that one end of the packet of bills stayed close to its original position while the other end of the packet spread out. This is somewhat like what you do when you are holding a hand of cards (poker, bridge, etc.). If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41290 June 29, 2013 mrshutter45it's my understanding they believe the bills were there for about a year. "The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar." Sept 79 to Feb 80 is 5-6 months??????????????? The terminology used was LESS than a yr. ALSO we do NOT know where the money was stored prior to 1979. Duane kept a metal file box in the trunk and it was locked---I would later learn that was were he kept his old tax report (they did NOT fill up that file box), He may have had contained the old magazines and the ticket and other momentos from his past and his family. I think he retrived the money from were ever he went for 5 1/2 hours that morning he disappeared...at THE DALLES. He also disappeared the entire afternoon before our last night in Seattle. I have thought perhaps he was NOT with the other agents and he rented a room to check out his package and found some of it was still good, but part of it was not spendable. Remember he went to supposedly see the wife of a friend in The Dalles area, but he was dead and she supposedly asked him to move something in the shed. His explanation for being soiled when he returned to the motel in The Dalles. Since I do NOT know were he was during those 2 time spans - what I have stated is PURE theory. I have stated this many time. The money may have already been in a deterioated condition created in the storage area with mold or mildew or mite or silverfish or what-ever other culprits existed in the areas. Those holes in the money could have come from the "storage" place. When he disappeared in Seattle, I did ask him were he had been because he was NOT with the other agents. They had not seen him since noon. Duane said he had looked up an old friend, but never told me who that friend was. I think it was another hotel room. We were late for the banquet and I did NOT address the problem the next day - I already knew NOT to ask too many questions and he didn't ask me about my prior marriage - outside of when he first met me and when we went to see my family who retired to FL.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41291 June 29, 2013 Robert99 If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 Robert: I have dial up and can view very little other than searches - no videos nor get the news. I do NOT use public equipment because I require a specific set up with my seating and the distance the screen is from my face and how high it is....NO need to explain that any further. Thank you for a decent explanation of torgue. That could also happen if he had them in his pockets - or when he took them out of the bag or put them in the bag or retrived them from where ever they were hidden.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41292 June 29, 2013 Robert99 *** Quote Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now. Robert99 Well, Robert why don't you be MORE specific with your use of torqued. If the money was placed in a hole on the beach beneath or under a shed - just how would one propose the hole be dug if the perpetrator carried NO instrument with which to dig - other than his own gloved hands. If one is placing something on a beach how would you propose a person do this. Assuming a person did do this. If one reachs down and digs a hole in the sand - they used their fingertip or gloved hand. The bottom of the hole will be more narrow than the top. If your reference to Torgue is twisted - THINK! The first roll would be bent to fit down in the hole and the other packets would lie flat. Jo, The money was reportedly found in a flat position with only one layer. If some of the money was buried in a more or less vertical position, then that would have been evident to who pulled it out of the ground, rather than just brushed the sand off of it. And that rules out your suggestion. My use of the term "torque" is correctly stated but the term "rotation" may make more sense to you. Basically, the bills shown in the referenced sections of Tom Kaye's web page indicate that one end of the packet of bills stayed close to its original position while the other end of the packet spread out. This is somewhat like what you do when you are holding a hand of cards (poker, bridge, etc.). If you can't view Tom Kaye's page on your computer, then go to your local public library and plug in the web page address on one of their public computers. Despite all your claims, you have access to just about everything, if not everything, on the Internet. So no more excuses about your computer equipment please. Robert99 one could wonder about a plant, but only if someone was hot on your trail. Cooper was 8 years old and a very cold case. why would he plant the money to throw them off the trail....what trail???? putting the money in containers? why, what was then purpose of the crime.....kicks? doubtful. like most unsolved cases we have a "Government cover up" will surface in these cases simply because no answers have been found. The Government would have never done the operation in this manor leaving the case wide open for pot shots year after year. they would either quickly capture him, or find him dead very soon after the crime or "operation" I see lot's of "could be" and "what if's" turn into facts? I wonder how many people email and call the FBI about Cooper on a daily or weekly basis thinking they have the answers? my guess would be none....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41293 June 29, 2013 about one year Jo.....that would be 10-12 months. not 4 or 5! do you have any pictures or anything showing you were in Washington in 1979?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41294 June 29, 2013 Robert99 Jo, Nothing I have written above supports your idea that the money at Tina Bar was buried by a human. And you have no proof of any kind as to the exact dates the money arrived at the location where it was found. But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it. Robert99 Well, Robert99 - the ONLY people who can state that would be FBI or some other government organization.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41295 June 29, 2013 mrshutter45about one year Jo.....that would be 10-12 months. not 4 or 5! do you have any pictures or anything showing you were in Washington in 1979? Less than a yr - who are you quoting Kaye or Palmer? Palmer said less than a yr! I have negatives of The Market, but that was the only place I took pics, beside the room. It was raining and the pics of the Market Place were bad - but I never destroy negatives. Duane was at a manager's meeting for Family Life Ins and I am not sure I kept the news letter. After Duane died I threw away lots of things. At one time I had the flyer they gave us to find the site of the meetings. It maybe with the 1979 tax reports. I have the pics made in the room and I am sure the hotel probably has some of the decor of past days in pictures with the history of the building. This is where Duane bought me the pinky ring - an old black hills gold ring at the Eye of the Needle after dinner one night. I expect there might be something with the tax records. If you are inferring I made up the trip - you would have to be out of your mind. NO way! We toured the new MASSIVE computer they had put in and were so proud of. The president of the company was McMillian and we called him Max. I forget his first name right now. Max and Duane engaged in a conversation about the bridge being out after the flood. Max told him he still had to take the ferry over. Max noted that Duane knew a lot about WA. I was surprised at Duane's answer - how very appropriate now that I know is past. "I spent some time here!" and I think he stated a time frame but my mind will not let me remember the details of the conversation. Max and Duane talked in detail about Seattle, but someone engaged me in conversation so I did not hear everything that was said. Remember I was reading the direction flyer for on of the parties and the gave us a Seattle map. I told Duane he was not going the right way and he said this is just a short cut. Yea, a short cut it was not it was a detour to the airport and this is when he told me the fence was not like he remembered it...(it did change). He did NOT mention that was a sight of plane that had been hijacked. The pointed to a building on street over that was 2 storys tall and told me it used to be a motel, but now it was office building. SO he knew WA and obviously he was there before and after the motel became an office. Geeze - you asked a simple question and I just couldn't shut up! I get on a roll and I just keep on rolling.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41296 June 29, 2013 "Less than a yr - who are you quoting Kaye or Palmer? Palmer said less than a yr!" the quote came from you. "The terminology used was LESS than a yr." The oxidation of sulfur in rubber bands is a well understood process and in fact, the first experiments to detect ozone in Los Angeles used rubber bands around jars [5]. The dual experiments performed here under conditions that are thought to be close analogues of for the bundles on Tena Bar, place an upper limit of about a year on the survivability of the Cooper rubber bands. The rubber band testing outlined in other parts of this research place a constraint of about one year for the bills to become buried on Tena Bar why would Duane bury the money? how do you explain his expenses in the past that you said probably wasn't from stealing? it doesn't make sense. you claim is was broke but bought lots of things, but also buried the money in a pail/milk can/plastic container? went back dug it up and threw it in the river. I'm a little confused on this...... why would you not have evidence available showing you were in Washington? might have, maybe? yes it should be on the taxes. these are things important in proving something."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41297 June 29, 2013 skyjack71Max and Duane engaged in a conversation about the bridge being out after the flood. Jo, What bridge are you talking about, what were the dates of the flood, and what were the dates that you were there? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41298 June 29, 2013 this is where things really get confusing Jo. a couple hours ago you stated this: "OLD lady common sense. Make fun of it but, I was with him the day he took a walk down to the beach at Tena's bar and told me to stay in the car. he had on a blue nylon wind breaker - the pocket were large enough to hold several bundles of banded money." July 3, 2008 you said this. OK. Duane went NO WHERE near Tena's bar. The closest we got was the Red Lion Inn at the bridge. this doesn't sound good here Jo???? here is the post...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41299 June 29, 2013 Remember what we have learned in the last few yrs about Duane Weber. He usually made a mistake and ended up in prison! If the money was damaged - you can bet the places he told me to stay in the car or went on ahead of me - he got rid of the evidence. Remember how GIDDY he was when her returned from were ever he had spent the afternoon. Just like he was on that damn plane when they delivered the money. Duane made lots of mistakes in his life - he was always looking over his shoulder...the way his eyes would dart around the room - either casing out a hit or afraid there was someone in the room who might recognize him and rat him out to me. We didn't argue and we enjoyed each others companionship, he was a GOOD father, handyman around the house (nothing he couldn't fix or repair). No one including me could find the repaired chair - that is how good he was. Duane made compulsive decisions and he did some really stupid things from what I have found about his past. I expect when he told me about the guy who was arrested in St.Pete and when asked his occupation he said "Crook I guess". My comment was with a laugh "That was Stupid!" Then just about 3 yrs ago you guys came up with the Treasure Isle arrest when the FBI had NEVER EVEN told me about this - why? I learned about the Treasure Isle incident on a public thread and THAT is WHEN I REALIZED Duane Weber had told me about his life in third person. That was the moment that all of the stories he had told me about knowing a boy or use to know a guy who did this or that - he WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF! This was when the pieces of the puzzle started to just fall into place over and over. My mind started to remember the 3rd person stories...and they just kept coming. Suddenly my life with Duane Weber started to make sense. The man without a past had something to hide. 12 yrs of marriage I didn't know he was an excon until 1995. When we had only been together for a few month and living in CO. Duane had the night mare about the Aft stairs - waking up screaming and reaching up in to the air. "I'm going to Die, I left my prints on the aft stairs". He had been mumbling in his sleep just before he made the statement and then the BLOOD CURDLING SCREAM!. He got up had some Brandy - he was shaking. HE also took a pill, but I do not know what it was. I asked him what was Aft stairs and he said it was the stairs in a jail. I remember I was getting scared and repeated "Jail" with a little alarm in my voice. He quickly made it sound like he was real young and he got into some trouble with a couple of boys - made it sound like a county reformatory. I asked what Aft stairs was - and he just said it was the stairway in the jail. I didn't know any differnce - I took his word. Part of why when I was reading MAX's book in 1996 and found the plane stair way was called Aft Stair that I freaked and was on the phone to the FBI. I do NOT remember how many times I called them that night but it was at least 3 times. What does any of the above have to do with The Idiot Plant? I know, but for right now I will keep it to myself. If you want to get rid of evidence - you deep six it!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41300 June 29, 2013 Robert, do you know how wide V-23 is considered to be?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
