DB Cooper

[georger 197]

5 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Georger. I vaguely remember you had some connection to linguistics along with your math background. This stylometry is basically part of forensic linguistics. Your input would be interesting. 

I am so long away from that I hesitate to say anything! Back in the sixties Bill Gibson, Robt Howren,  and I (at Wendel Johnson Speech & Hearing) tried to devise a sorting program looking for syntax indicative of the language acquisition period - in children. We examined a large amount of text taken from recordings of children etc. We had a number of people looking over our shoulders as we tried to develop this 'algorithm' - people in linguistics, neurology, education, ed-psych measurement etc. My wife was doing her student teaching at the Area Development Center in Davenport, Ia at the time so I went went with her and began recording the speech patterns of handicapped children. I was interested in comparing that population with samples from 'normal' non-institutionalized children. The fit was good. I decided to compare that data with a large sample of data from Downes clients, ages 2-25, and was surprised by the results. Our program suggested that the Downes clients were engaging in 'acquisition like' speech patterns skewed to ages 18-25! I consulted with the director of the center and she smiled and said: 'yes. its a syndrome we've seen for years...it usually stops by age 25'. A colleague Bob Wachal noted that he thought he had seen similar linguistic 'experimentation' in patients trying to recover from brain injuries... obviously there must be a neurological basis for anything like this regardless of the age and condition of people entering such a phase ? The whole thing became an interesting academic exercise. Bill Gibson and I were using PL1 ... about 1968. Work of this kind has advanced light years beyond where we were in those early years using PL1 ... I think Bob Wachal went further with his work on Aphasia. Its a neurological issue of importance for anyone who has a brain injury affecting language skills ...       

Edited March 11 by georger

[JAGdb 71]

Ryan, good discussion on Youtube the other day regarding whether or not Cooper was a pilot, Pat had some very insightful points in favor, Jersey girls brings it ! (couldn't really hear the lady from New Zealand very well). 

You guys touched on the fact that he seemed to not realize that flying dirty would limit the range of the air craft and make a non stop flight to Mexico impossible. This is what has always given me some pause as well, if he was a pilot with any substantial experience, you would think he should have known that.  I am in the camp that he just wanted to get the plane flying south also, and may not have really cared about ever getting to Mexico.  However, I am still not sure this dismisses him not anticipating that he might get called out on his request for a non stop flight to Mexico.  

Another less frequent item brought up by Pat I believe was the Benzedrine. I may have asked this before, but what is the origin of this ?  Was it in the FBI files or did it come from Tosaw or Grey ?

Unrelated to the pilot question, you guys also touched on one of his biggest blunders that could have done him in.  That being where he seems to have allowed for an opportunity for everyone to bug out and leave him on the plane by himself at Seatac.   As well as he seems to have planned out the "job", he wasn't perfect...but as they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky.  When I think about this, I wonder would Braden have made that mistake ?

BTW, here is the latest from Dr. Edwards in case folks haven't seen it yet:

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/24580716-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-lou-rucker

He seems to be trying to get some of the names and details for the people that were jumping out of the 727s for Air America/Southern Air Transport.  There was a blurb in the last FBI doc which indicates that the FBI was looking into a tip for someone who fit the hijacker's description and was part of these jumps:

[Redacted] has close associate known to [redacted] (LNU) [Last Name Unknown] of Ft. Hood, Texas, [redacted] at same time in nineteen sixty-four. [Redacted] made numerous sport jumps from rear of military equivalent to Norjak plane [Boeing 727-51]. Jumps were made from rear door in exactly same manner as unsub [unidentified subject] in instant matter. Also made numerous night jumps. [Redacted] described [redacted, four letters] (LNU) as being white male, olive complexion, five feet eleven inches, one seventy-five lbs., well educated, chain smoker, age [redacted], excellent sky diver from mid west.
... [Redacted] Portland, Oregon at telephone number [redacted] was shown composite of unsub [unidentified subject] and feels it would bear remarkable likeness to [redacted, four letters] (LNU) after having aged six or seven years.”

 

 

[CooperNWO305 146]

For those who listened to the Barb/Clara podcast. I’m curious to get your impression of what 97% match means. Marty has already explained, but I’d like to get other impressions. Do you compare it to something like a .970 batting average or 97% free throw percentage or 97% chance that a King high straight flush will win on the river  Kind of in your own words.

The DZ group for all its disagreement, does seem to have the most concentrated group of more experienced/educated etc. individuals. Higher ed is represented here, and even if not, there are mostly bright people here, even if we don’t all like eachother. And a good amount of you are not on the FB group. 

[JAGdb 71]

5 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

For those who listened to the Barb/Clara podcast. I’m curious to get your impression of what 97% match means. Marty has already explained, but I’d like to get other impressions. Do you compare it to something like a .970 batting average or 97% free throw percentage or 97% chance that a King high straight flush will win on the river  Kind of in your own words.

The DZ group for all its disagreement, does seem to have the most concentrated group of more experienced/educated etc. individuals. Higher ed is represented here, and even if not, there are mostly bright people here, even if we don’t all like eachother. And a good amount of you are not on the FB group. 

Full disclosure, I have no background in the discipline of Stylometry. 

But my immediate take on this topic is that the sample size is too small.  Could comparing one small letter be enough to draw the conclusions that were being made?  Questions popping into my head like if you took 100 or 1000 other comparable sized control letters and compared them to the same group of Barb's letters, would you get any other similar results i.e. 97% certainty.  Other questions I have are more generic to Stylometry and false positive statistics?  How does it compare to a DNA match which is typically 99% accurate ?  What are the odds of two people writing in a similar way both structurally and using a similar vocabulary catalog ?

I think more work needs to be done to validate the initial test.

One of the things I missed in the Youtube video, was how or why Barb Dayton became the target of the Stylometry exercise in the first place.  I am going to go back and watch it again.

[georger 197]

9 hours ago, JAGdb said:

Full disclosure, I have no background in the discipline of Stylometry. 

But my immediate take on this topic is that the sample size is too small.  Could comparing one small letter be enough to draw the conclusions that were being made?  Questions popping into my head like if you took 100 or 1000 other comparable sized control letters and compared them to the same group of Barb's letters, would you get any other similar results i.e. 97% certainty.  Other questions I have are more generic to Stylometry and false positive statistics?  How does it compare to a DNA match which is typically 99% accurate ?  What are the odds of two people writing in a similar way both structurally and using a similar vocabulary catalog ?

I think more work needs to be done to validate the initial test.

One of the things I missed in the Youtube video, was how or why Barb Dayton became the target of the Stylometry exercise in the first place.  I am going to go back and watch it again.

I think more work needs to be done to validate the initial test.

I agree. Samples matter. I would compare the Clara letters to Forman letters. If a positive match is found to one of the Formans ... then there is a potential problem. Likewise who were Dayton's associates independent of the Formans?  Maybe the whole circle of people around Dayton must be examined in addition to Dayton only. ..

Keep in mind we are dealing with syntactical structures vs phonology. Phonology has far more data points that can be quantified vs syntactical strictures. If we could compare a Dayton voice recording with a Clara call, the analysis would be on much firmer ground. I am assuming recordings of those voices dont exist?

If Kaczynsk's voice could have been compared to a sample of the Unabomber voice a phonological match could have been made very quickly, vs syntactical comparison. Its an issue of data and quantifiable data points in one method vs another.  

But, I think Andrade has done a marvelous piece of work with this.

Edited March 13 by georger

[Cola 26]

16 hours ago, JAGdb said:

Another less frequent item brought up by Pat I believe was the Benzedrine. I may have asked this before, but what is the origin of this ?  Was it in the FBI files or did it come from Tosaw or Grey ?

 

In all of the 302's a reference to Benzedrine only occurs one time in the records from a Newspaper article in the Oregonian on November 30th - 71 quoting Rataczak.

Rataczak is quoted making reference to a conversation Tina held with Cooper, where Coops made the request for food and indicated he had stimulants / Benzedrine for the crew.

The Portland office clipped the article, but there no indication that the article was shared with other field offices. There is nothing in the 302's indicating that this detail was followed up on and if  Tina, Rataczak or the Author were contacted to verity Coops indeed offered pills, stimulants or Benzedrine to the crew.

Although, it is always a possibility that any sharing of the article was pulled from the 302's being a duplicate copy and that within the 302's a record indicating this was followed up on or verified has yet to be released. Maybe it was just jotted down in agent notes and not added to the interviews. Who knows. 

Rataczak does make mention of Cooper having "some pills" in his NWO historical interview but he is prompted by the audience on this detail and affirms without ident. of Benzedrine specifically.

I try only to read 302's so I can't speak to this being referenced in either Tosaw's or Grey's book. Maybe someone else that has read these would care to chime in.

My doubt on this is that, had Coops offered pills to Tina, you woudl think she would have relayed this to Bill or a crew member directly. Bill's Oregonian quote comes off as second hand as if he had not heard this directly from Tina during the event but that it had been relayed to him after the fact. Further doubt on this is that the flight transcripts, handwritten notes and none of the witness interviews make mention of pills - stimulants or Benzedrine being offered to the crew. 

 

part 54 pg. 23008 

 

 

[georger 197]

51 minutes ago, Cola said:

 

In all of the 302's a reference to Benzedrine only occurs one time in the records from a Newspaper article in the Oregonian on November 30th - 71 quoting Rataczak.

Rataczak is quoted making reference to a conversation Tina held with Cooper, where Coops made the request for food and indicated he had stimulants / Benzedrine for the crew.

The Portland office clipped the article, but there no indication that the article was shared with other field offices. There is nothing in the 302's indicating that this detail was followed up on and if  Tina, Rataczak or the Author were contacted to verity Coops indeed offered pills, stimulants or Benzedrine to the crew.

Although, it is always a possibility that any sharing of the article was pulled from the 302's being a duplicate copy and that within the 302's a record indicating this was followed up on or verified has yet to be released. Maybe it was just jotted down in agent notes and not added to the interviews. Who knows. 

Rataczak does make mention of Cooper having "some pills" in his NWO historical interview but he is prompted by the audience on this detail and affirms without ident. of Benzedrine specifically.

I try only to read 302's so I can't speak to this being referenced in either Tosaw's or Grey's book. Maybe someone else that has read these would care to chime in.

My doubt on this is that, had Coops offered pills to Tina, you woudl think she would have relayed this to Bill or a crew member directly. Bill's Oregonian quote comes off as second hand as if he had not heard this directly from Tina during the event but that it had been relayed to him after the fact. Further doubt on this is that the flight transcripts, handwritten notes and none of the witness interviews make mention of pills - stimulants or Benzedrine being offered to the crew. 

 

part 54 pg. 23008 

 

 

Cooper's suggestion that the crew take drugs (benzene) was stupid on its face - precisely the kind of statement that Carr uses to claim Cooper was a rank moron/amateur who didnt know what he was doing.

One option is that Cooper himself or herself was on drugs at the time and didn't know the difference between day vs night!  Its like some people I know who keep claiming the facility they built is located 20 miles away from where it actually is - and even get news stations to advertise that nonsense! 

Was Cooper a barking dog that neighbors could not get anyone to SHUT UP! ?  Maybe animal control in some city knew who DB Cooper was because they had been dealing with him/it for years ?

 

[The Cooper Vortex 73]

New episode out now! DB Cooper isn't Clara with Chris Cunningham.

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-isnt-clara-chris-cunningham/

Enjoy!

[Cola 26]

5 hours ago, georger said:

Cooper's suggestion that the crew take drugs (benzene) was stupid on its face - precisely the kind of statement that Carr uses to claim Cooper was a rank moron/amateur who didnt know what he was doing.

 

As far as holding Coops out as a moron I just take that as a basic tenet of any law enforcement agency as classically:

The primary objective of the law  - is deterrence.

Investigation and prosecution are secondary and tertiary objectives when the primary objective of deterrence fails.

That's just the game..

 

[JAGdb 71]

14 hours ago, Cola said:

 

In all of the 302's a reference to Benzedrine only occurs one time in the records from a Newspaper article in the Oregonian on November 30th - 71 quoting Rataczak.

Rataczak is quoted making reference to a conversation Tina held with Cooper, where Coops made the request for food and indicated he had stimulants / Benzedrine for the crew.

The Portland office clipped the article, but there no indication that the article was shared with other field offices. There is nothing in the 302's indicating that this detail was followed up on and if  Tina, Rataczak or the Author were contacted to verity Coops indeed offered pills, stimulants or Benzedrine to the crew.

Although, it is always a possibility that any sharing of the article was pulled from the 302's being a duplicate copy and that within the 302's a record indicating this was followed up on or verified has yet to be released. Maybe it was just jotted down in agent notes and not added to the interviews. Who knows. 

Rataczak does make mention of Cooper having "some pills" in his NWO historical interview but he is prompted by the audience on this detail and affirms without ident. of Benzedrine specifically.

I try only to read 302's so I can't speak to this being referenced in either Tosaw's or Grey's book. Maybe someone else that has read these would care to chime in.

My doubt on this is that, had Coops offered pills to Tina, you woudl think she would have relayed this to Bill or a crew member directly. Bill's Oregonian quote comes off as second hand as if he had not heard this directly from Tina during the event but that it had been relayed to him after the fact. Further doubt on this is that the flight transcripts, handwritten notes and none of the witness interviews make mention of pills - stimulants or Benzedrine being offered to the crew. 

 

part 54 pg. 23008 

 

 

Thanks for the response Cola.  The reason the Benzedrine anecdote is interesting to me:

1) I think it is part of the pilot/military/aviation discussion.  Military personnel, particularly pilots were issued Benzedrine for long missions.  By 1971 I understand that amphetamines were common knowledge and in use among the public, but I still think if he did indeed offer them that it has it's root in mission based preparedness from prior military/aviation experience.   

2) From a strategic aspect, Cooper brought it up for one of two reasons:

- To really be used as an aid to the long flight to Mexico.

Or

- As a way to make everyone think they were in it for the long haul while he planned to exit the plane as quickly as possible and give himself a better chance at getting away.

I did a little bit of digging, just to kind of close the loop, found this article from Bruce back in 2013 where he says:

" According to Tosaw and Gray, Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert."

https://themountainnewswa.net/2013/02/06/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-who-was-cooper-what-is-known/

In the Vortex, Gray has been a somewhat well respected source.  I believe he had cooperation from the FBI for his book and access to the FBI files and evidence.  So he must have got it from this access.

Tosaw was FBI, so he had access to everything.

But as you mentioned, other than a news article, it is nowhere in the FBI files that have been released yet.  To your point, how could it not be ?  If it was part of any of the stewardess testimony, it should be all over that portion of FBI files. 

Edited March 14 by JAGdb

[olemisscub 466]

4 hours ago, JAGdb said:

 

But as you mentioned, other than a news article, it is nowhere in the FBI files that have been released yet.  To your point, how could it not be ?  If it was part of any of the stewardess testimony, it should be all over that portion of FBI files. 

I desperately seek to never be the "I have access to something you don't" guy, but I've got Benzedrine 100% confirmed straight from Tina's mouth. There's no need to debate the veracity of whether Cooper did or didn't have it. He absolutely did. It'll be in my book. Again, I apologize for being like that as I always try to share my data, but I did think I could at least help save us all from having to speculate about the Bennies. 

[JAGdb 71]

3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I desperately seek to never be the "I have access to something you don't" guy, but I've got Benzedrine 100% confirmed straight from Tina's mouth. There's no need to debate the veracity of whether Cooper did or didn't have it. He absolutely did. It'll be in my book. Again, I apologize for being like that as I always try to share my data, but I did think I could at least help save us all from having to speculate about the Bennies. 

No apology necessary, that's a great update and thanks for sharing !!! I think it is an important part of the suspect profile puzzle !

[olemisscub 466]

Chris Cunningham recently found these sunglasses on eBay. These appear to be the closest analog to Cooper's. They are called Solarama's and they were produced in the 60's. I believe he and I bought the only two pairs on eBay. The listing even said they have a green/brown tint to them, which is how several passengers described Cooper's shades as looking like. Bill called them a "honey brown" tint and said that the rims were "very dark."

When you search for these types of glasses from that era you rarely see them. Most sunglasses for men back then were expensive Italian type sunglasses, aviators, or the ubiquitous "bluesman" sunglasses. So because there were so few of these "proto-Oakleys" around at the time, these may actually be Cooper's sunglasses.

 

[CooperNWO305 146]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:07 AM, JAGdb said:

Full disclosure, I have no background in the discipline of Stylometry. 

But my immediate take on this topic is that the sample size is too small.  Could comparing one small letter be enough to draw the conclusions that were being made?  Questions popping into my head like if you took 100 or 1000 other comparable sized control letters and compared them to the same group of Barb's letters, would you get any other similar results i.e. 97% certainty.  Other questions I have are more generic to Stylometry and false positive statistics?  How does it compare to a DNA match which is typically 99% accurate ?  What are the odds of two people writing in a similar way both structurally and using a similar vocabulary catalog ?

I think more work needs to be done to validate the initial test.

One of the things I missed in the Youtube video, was how or why Barb Dayton became the target of the Stylometry exercise in the first place.  I am going to go back and watch it again.

On the percentages, if DNA is 99%, then there is no way Stylometry can be even close. Even in the Unabomber case which was more forensic linguistics as a whole versus the subset of Stylometry, they still needed a warrant once they had the analysis. The forensic linguistics helped get the warrant, but it took a lot more to solve the case. 
 

I’ll get into it later, but hypothesis testing is not proof per se like a blood test or DNA would be or a measurement of chemical makeup in a product. 
 

The 97% although understood by us in the statistics field, and those with schooling like Marty, has been misunderstood or misappropriated by others here in this situation. 97% would indicate something you would bet your whole pot in poker on. 

[Cola 26]

55 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

these may actually be Cooper's sunglasses.

 

Wow... double wow... congrats to Chris on that one.

I'm amazed they are not cracked after so long, at fist blush those are by far the closest I have seen and I love your "proto-Oakleys" description which is precisely what they are.

Would it be possible to post a few more photos of those. A shot of them relative to something that provides some scale. Maybe even flipped upside down lenses facing away from the shot at a slight elevation decline to the camera so we could observe the bridge.

I know you said your on the last chapter of the book, but any ball park ETA on the release?

 

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Chris Cunningham recently found these sunglasses on eBay. These appear to be the closest analog to Cooper's. They are called Solarama's and they were produced in the 60's. I believe he and I bought the only two pairs on eBay. The listing even said they have a green/brown tint to them, which is how several passengers described Cooper's shades as looking like. Bill called them a "honey brown" tint and said that the rims were "very dark."

When you search for these types of glasses from that era you rarely see them. Most sunglasses for men back then were expensive Italian type sunglasses, aviators, or the ubiquitous "bluesman" sunglasses. So because there were so few of these "proto-Oakleys" around at the time, these may actually be Cooper's sunglasses.

 

Olemiss, there was nothing unusual about the type of sunglasses that aviator's used from WW2 through 1971.  They all had metal frames and various tints with emphasis being on "true color" tints.  There was nothing exceptional about their prices either.

I have been wearing "aviator sunglasses" longer than I can remember, wore them yesterday, and will be wearing them again today if the sun is shinning when I go outside.

So please don't start claiming that Cooper had some exceptional or exotic sunglasses.  That is nonsense.

[olemisscub 466]

8 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Olemiss, there was nothing unusual about the type of sunglasses that aviator's used from WW2 through 1971.  They all had metal frames and various tints with emphasis being on "true color" tints.  There was nothing exceptional about their prices either.

I have been wearing "aviator sunglasses" longer than I can remember, wore them yesterday, and will be wearing them again today if the sun is shinning when I go outside.

So please don't start claiming that Cooper had some exceptional or exotic sunglasses.  That is nonsense.

But Cooper wasn't wearing "aviators" and those glasses I posted aren't aviators. I wear aviators myself. They're the only sunglasses I've worn as an adult.

These aren't aviators nor was Cooper wearing aviators. Aviators do not have thick plastic frames (Tina, Alice) nor do they have any hint of a horn rim (Alice, Gregory)

I defy you to find a photograph from WWII of anyone wearing sunglasses like those I posted. 

[Robert99 37]

5 hours ago, olemisscub said:

But Cooper wasn't wearing "aviators" and those glasses I posted aren't aviators. I wear aviators myself. They're the only sunglasses I've worn as an adult.

These aren't aviators nor was Cooper wearing aviators. Aviators do not have thick plastic frames (Tina, Alice) nor do they have any hint of a horn rim (Alice, Gregory)

I defy you to find a photograph from WWII of anyone wearing sunglasses like those I posted. 

You seem to be suggesting that we can rule out Cooper being an "aviator" and possibly being a "bluesman".  I have seen plenty of bluesmen wearing wrap-around dark colored glasses, but I wouldn't call them sunglasses since they usually only wore them on stage during performances in near pitch-dark clubs.

[olemisscub 466]

46 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

You seem to be suggesting that we can rule out Cooper being an "aviator" and possibly being a "bluesman".  I have seen plenty of bluesmen wearing wrap-around dark colored glasses, but I wouldn't call them sunglasses since they usually only wore them on stage during performances in near pitch-dark clubs.

Sweet Jesus…

[Chaucer 103]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Sweet Jesus…

So, Cooper didn't sing the blues?

[georger 197]

totem poles bake furiously

Edited March 15 by georger

[CooperNWO305 146]

Darren's latest podcast.  Some responses here.

Darren seems to have asked some harder questions this time. Good to see.  He seems less married to Barb being Clara now.  He also was skeptical about her traveling to send the letters.  I hope future podcasts have new material and are not just a better version of Facebook Live.  I think we may have just run out of solid material to work with. Good to see Darren maybe back in the Vortex.

Two podcasts in a row Darren and his guests said Vordahl was not close to being Cooper.  That seems to be lost on Nicky.

DNA.  Chris used the term "easy" as in testing the Gunther stamp for DNA.  He must know something I don't know.  Given that I'm the one who had the testing done, I'll elaborate.  You can't just take a stamp and test for STR and SNP at the same time.  Maybe if you had vial of blood to work with, but that is not the way it works.  My focus is SNP testing, not spending my money and time doing one of testing on a suspect like Barb who you guys have now invented a story behind and are adjusting things as you go.  

Also, just because DNA has been extracted does not mean it is in the right form, or that we have enough to go playing around with it.  Think like this. When you go to the doctor and they take blood, they take multiple vials for different tests.  The blood gets used up, just like the DNA.  I'm not using it up on Barb.  Come on.  What a joke.

I recommend that the Dayton team get Barb's DNA in SNP form and get that loaded into GED Match.  If they want to do STR, then go for it.  Don't say "we can do it" do it.  SNP is the best because if it is not Barb (which we know it won't be) or Smith or anyone else, we can still find out who.

If all else fails, I will work the STR angle.  However, if I rule out Smith, Clair, Gunther, etc, then I'm right where EU is if he does an STR profile. I have then test every male's DNA who was alive in 1972.  Yes I have Smith relatives ready to test, but I prefer a male child, which he does not have.

In terms of me not wanting to give the results if it is Barb or someone else.  I get it, I know how Chris operates, I got the backhanded comment. He dropped the underhanded comment that Nicky would tell us if he had exculpatory evidence on Vordahl, like he has some sort of integrity.  We already have plenty that rules him out, but Nicky keeps going.  Vordahl used hair gel in high school, was on the rifle team, wrote a few letters to the newspaper (that's what people did back then, now they tweet and use Facebook), etc. etc.  You threw a softball question at him at CC and set it up that he was a good guy for coming off Klansnic because of the blue eyes and mole. Nicky came off Klansnic just like he came off Rackstraw, to go to a new suspect.  A guy that fakes being a nurse to catfish someone is not someone who would normally rate the word integrity.  Nicky's whole life in the Vortex for the past few months has been discrediting Smith and Gunther.  He's got some followers, but luckily you guys spend most of your time talking about other things.  At least you stand for something.  But I get it, you guys are now all friendly with Smith's daughter and in contact and Nicky is the mascot of the group, nice to everyone. Like Eddie Haskell. I think he's just an internet troll. We have a few of those.

I'm not dropping Smith.  I was ready before CC to slow down, but given the ridiculous rebuttals from that camp, I am pushing ahead in earnest.  I don't need the Vortex to give approval on my approach, what matters is what the DNA shows, what the FBI, IRS, and Treasury think, and what the public thinks, to include the media, not the echo chamber in the group. I offered to address things one on one behind the scenes, but all bets are off now.

As for people willing to pay for DNA testing.  Right now the bill is $3000.  That will continue to go up. So if you want to take a dent out of things, hit me up offline.  A $20 donation is not going to cut it.  The technology is advancing, I have a number of options, but some will take time, and may involve me going out of the country to get done.

Chris claimed that EU can only get STR and not SNP data.  False.  EU may only be trying to get STR.  However, even with three profiles, it is technically possible.  However, this costs money, and may require advancements in technology, not to mention getting around a lot of rules/laws/procedures.

Good to see you are still on the money theory that it landed and then got washed into a flood. I'm ok with that.  It's odd that you take Marty's analysis as gospel, but not Tom's diatom research.

Peer reviews are done before you present evidence. Not after.  Who do you have in mind for peer reviews? I've been in contact with the creator of the Signature program, does that count?

Nice lovefest too.  Half the podcast was telling us how great certain people in the Vortex are.  The buddy buddy social club you guys have makes it so no one ever questions anything.  I get it, some people are smart, some people are good guys.  Let's talk data and reality.  You used to stand for neutrality and critical thinking, what happened?

Had to throw in the anti EU stuff too.  Calling out Vince Peterson.  I know EU does not check here or waste is time with podcasts, oh well.  Your group is clearly anti-EU, yet he is the one getting publicity for the case.

And last but not least, you called for peer review on the Barb letters, but continued to say multiple times how you think the analysis is good and is accurate.  FYI, it's dead in the water.  I'll get a video out on it, or a paper.  I just would like to know once it's debunked, will people go back to saying Gunther made it up?  Will Marty go back to thinking LeClair is Cooper? My guess is people will keep pushing Barb, and slink away from the letters, or all of a sudden agree that there are multiple issues with the analysis.

I like Marty's approach.  I'm in a STEM field, and appreciate how he thinks.  His mistake was letting the Vortex push him into putting something out that was not ready for primetime.  I'd reccomend in the future to vett something like that through someone like Georger, or Flyjack, or Tom Kaye. I'd say me too, but I get it, people wanted to use it to discredit Smith.

Hint, doing some Google searches should tell you the sample size is too small, regardelss of if it is in Polish or English.  Fun fact, posts on DZ and the Cooper Forum are not too short in aggregate.  I did some fun testing and did find a perfect match for two posters on the old Cooper Forum.  Multiple screen names with many posts.

I'll get my video out soon, I hope.

 

 

Edited March 15 by CooperNWO305
Spelling

[Cola 26]

 

I hate to be meme, but I think we could all let some steam out

 

 

 

[DanCooperHimself 9]

On 3/14/2024 at 2:46 PM, olemisscub said:

I desperately seek to never be the "I have access to something you don't" guy, but I've got Benzedrine 100% confirmed straight from Tina's mouth. There's no need to debate the veracity of whether Cooper did or didn't have it. He absolutely did. It'll be in my book. Again, I apologize for being like that as I always try to share my data, but I did think I could at least help save us all from having to speculate about the Bennies. 

Agreed! From some chats I’ve had - Benzedrine was passed around like M&Ms at recreational DZs and passed out among the military. The mantra seemed to be, “if Uncle Sam gives it to his men we can have it to”. It didn’t stop a massive cocaine influx when Wee Pablo got a foothold into America in the early 70s. The more vault papers are coming out, the more Agent Tosaw’s book (as Bill refers to him as), is pretty spot on.

[CooperNWO305 146]

1 hour ago, DanCooperHimself said:

Agreed! From some chats I’ve had - Benzedrine was passed around like M&Ms at recreational DZs and passed out among the military. The mantra seemed to be, “if Uncle Sam gives it to his men we can have it to”. It didn’t stop a massive cocaine influx when Wee Pablo got a foothold into America in the early 70s. The more vault papers are coming out, the more Agent Tosaw’s book (as Bill refers to him as), is pretty spot on.

It’s awesome if Ryan or someone is in contact with Tina. Huge win.