swoosh 0 #1 April 22, 2004 Found this while surfing Yahoo tonight, comments?? http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2004-04-22/feature.html/1/index.html[url] The Sky is NOT the Limit, the Dirt Is!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #2 April 22, 2004 Quote "Anyone who says skydiving is safer than driving a car is a nutcase. There are about 40,000 skydivers in the U.S. and 30 to 40 deaths a year. I don't think one out of every thousand people getting in a car ends up dead." I'm glad somebody in the media finally got this right. I need both hands and then some to count the people I know who ended up in the hospital last year. How many of those accidents happened outside of skydiving? If you guessed zero, you win! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #3 April 22, 2004 a pretty good, honest article. and its got some funny shit in there too. clicky http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2004-04-22/feature.html/1/index.html MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shunkka 0 #4 April 22, 2004 good one thanks for sharing ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark135 0 #5 April 22, 2004 actually the statistics show that if you drove 10,000 miles per year, you were more likely to die in an automobile accident than if you were to make up to 17 skydives a year. so i guess for almost all of us skydiving is more dangerous. but you can still say that you are more likely to die in a car than making "A" skydive._______________ "It seemed like a good idea at the time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #6 April 22, 2004 QuoteFound this while surfing Yahoo tonight, comments?? Man I wish I was back there again...Eloy, I miss you!!! --- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #7 April 22, 2004 Quoteactually the statistics show that if you drove 10,000 miles per year, you were more likely to die in an automobile accident than if you were to make up to 17 skydives a year The article that started this thread was amazing! For anybody who hasn’t checked it out, do click on the link and read it. Now, onto the above quote from mark135. This issue has been discussed more times on drop zone.com than I can count, yet the message of accuracy always seems to get lost. This notion of ‘some number of jumps being equal to some number of miles’ is an easy way to prove a point, but it never includes an accurate statistic, and there is never a source for the data. It always seems to be a number drawn out of a hat around a drop zone campfire someplace, and has no relationship to reality. If you are going to offer statistics, pleas include a source. The national driving fatality rate is 1.56 per 100 million vehicle miles, as listed in “2003 Injury Facts” compiled by the National Safety Council. That number is based on 2002 data. NSC also reports a driving fatality rate of 15.7 per 100,000 population. The national skydiving fatality rate is 25 per 2 million jumps, as reported by USPA for 2003. That’s 1,250 skydiving fatalities per 100 million jumps. USPA data also shows 25 jumpers died among 32,628 USPA members, giving a fatality rate of about 77 fatalities per 100,000 population. Here is another way to look at USPA data from last year: We had 1 fatality for every 1,100 members, and 1 fatality for every 83,468 jumps. Sorry about hijacking the thread, but inaccurate numbers should not be allowed to stand without comment. Now, click on http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2004-04-22/feature.html/1/index.html and read an amazing article about Skydive Arizona. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) S&TA Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #8 April 22, 2004 Good article, I love Eloy, but I found the following the saddest comment on the current state of our sport: QuoteMany of the people roaming the drop zone in brightly colored jumpsuits are actually doctors, lawyers and engineers in the real world, people who can afford to support a regular skydiving habit -- which easily costs more than $10,000 annually for the recreational jumper. "This is an expensive sport," Barnhouse explains. "So many of these people had lucrative careers." QuoteLuckily, he had the money to make his dream happen in short order. A silver spoon can be a fast track to the higher echelons of this sport, provided focus and talent are also present. QuoteHe briefly considered selling the car for a stack of $18 jump tickets at the end of March, when he compromised between living the dream and affording to jump. Certainly not a new development, but what started as a sport done by young soldiers, ex-soldiers, poor college students, and a few rugged individualist thrill seekers has become a rich man's sport. If you can't afford to buy your way into it you either have to sell everything you own or get a job at the dropzone to afford it. I know a lot of enthusiastic young people who would love to skydive but as the sport has evolved they have been priced out of it. That's a shame. Wish we as a community could figure out a way to bring costs down. CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #9 April 22, 2004 QuoteCertainly not a new development, but what started as a sport done by young soldiers, ex-soldiers, poor college students, and a few rugged individualist thrill seekers has become a rich man's sport. If you can't afford to buy your way into it you either have to sell everything you own or get a job at the dropzone to afford it. I know a lot of enthusiastic young people who would love to skydive but as the sport has evolved they have been priced out of it. That's a shame. Wish we as a community could figure out a way to bring costs down. I dont know about that.... I just think that the goal set by the best jumpers is so much higher now. Think about it. 30 years ago (dont quote me on the exact number of years, I'm just a wiper snaper), simply passing a baton between 2 jumpers was considered the mastery of the sport. Yes, you needed to be good for that, but it wasnt something you needed 1,000 jumps for. Now, if you wanna be the best you do need these 1,000 jumps. And then some.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #10 April 22, 2004 QuoteNow, if you wanna be the best you do need these 1,000 jumps. And then some. No argument there, what I am talking about is: Quotepeople who can afford to support a regular skydiving habit -- which easily costs more than $10,000 annually for the recreational jumper. I agree that to get to championship level takes a heavy investment. What bothers me is that the costs to just get into the sport, own your own gear, and be an active recreational jumper have become prohibitively high for the average young person. CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #11 April 22, 2004 I think the definition of a "moderate" level have changed a lot. A lot of people used to do 150 jumps a year, jump used gear, and get coaching from whoever. A lot of people are doing 300 jumps a year, tunnel time/training, getting video of their coached jumps. The new 'moderate" level has raised the bar, but all these optional training aids are expensive. 10 years ago, there was no tunnel time for newbies (I'm jealous). The widespread use of helmet cams has made the dissection of each jump possible. One big difference that I see is that people are buying new gear instead of used gear as often. A new rig with a cypres is definitely more expensive than a ragged out wonderhog with 1500 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #12 April 22, 2004 QuoteWhat bothers me is that the costs to just get into the sport, own your own gear, and be an active recreational jumper have become prohibitively high for the average young person. I dont think this has changed much since I’ve been around, inflation non withstanding. 10 000 $ is about 500 jumps at US$20 per jump. That’s a lot of jumps for the average recreational jumper (even more at $17 per jump). Say another US$4000 for a rig that lasts, say, 4 years (and lets just split the $4000 even on the 4 years for simplicity sakes) , that’s still 450 jumps at $20 per. Still more then what I have ever done in a year paying all my jumps and being a weekend jumper in the north. I don’t think its any more ate less expensive then when I started 14 years ago, and I was in University at the time. Yes, if you want to jump your ass off, it’s pricey. I think its always been, but I'm sure some one who has ben around for donkey's years can fill us in more accurately.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #13 April 22, 2004 QuoteThe new 'moderate" level has raised the bar Agreed. Thats one of the reason why I'm still on the fence about spending loads of cash on tunnel time. Yes, it makes you a better flyer, no argument there. But I skydive to skydive (if that makes sense).Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #14 April 22, 2004 QuoteThis prompted NIDA to launch a television campaign hoping to turn young thrill seekers on to extreme sports like skydiving or bungee jumping instead of cocaine or acid. Yeah, our government, the pusher. "Don't use those drugs! Use these drugs!" Why can't they have a federal campaign to encourage more women to start jumping?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #15 April 22, 2004 quick break down of getting into the sport (please feel free to add to or disagree with .. gear numbers will be mine) skydive Chicago AFP course (18 jumps training) $1800-2000 depending on how you pay and if you have to repeat any jumps 7 more jumps to get your A (min) do them over 2 days at $75/day for gear thats 150, plus $15 per jump for the ride up..thats 120 required packing course $45 now you buy your own gear USED container $400 +90 for new kill line pilot USED Reserve $600 NEW MAIN (couldn't find what I wanted used) $1600 USED Helmet $40 USED wrist Alti $80 USED Cypres $600 Used Jumpsuit $50 Reserve inspection/pack (nice rigger also hooks up main and inspects all gear ..damn nice guy) $50 rough total $5800 thats to get started say minimum to stay current is 3 repacks per year (no reserve rides) and 2 jumps/month at MINIMUM so just to stay jumping and only get 24 jumps/year you pay 150+ 360 in jumptickets so 510 thats no new gear, no reserve rides no extra classes and a minimum number of jumps .. no not a cheep hobby Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sasteam 0 #16 April 22, 2004 Hmm... the problem here is that most of us do both (drive and skydive)! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raftman 12 #17 April 22, 2004 Jeeez, can't they ever get the terminology right: It's "Airgasm" not "orgasm"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,146 #18 April 22, 2004 Some comparison. I bought my first gear 27 years ago; that was 2 years and 35 jumps after I'd started (also a poor college student). FJC: $40 Student jumps: I think $15 with gear rental, $10 without, $2 extra for an AAD, normally only used for first couple of freefalls (25-30 student jumps). Experienced jumps: $8 to 12,500 Jumpsuit: $20 used Altimeter: $75 new (and I'm still using it) Rig: $400 for used gear; I used it for about 300 jumps Coaching: didn't exist Licenses: first got my C to get a JM ticket Reserve repack: $5 (but it was every 60 days) So the cost for startup, to include 100 jumps in the first year (not a bad rate in those days -- not great, but not bad), would have been a little over $1500. While some things have definitely gotten to be more expensive, others haven't. But one thing is that even 25-30 years ago, while $10 was more money relatively speaking, it didn't sound like that much more. $40 (cost of a jump with gear now) just plain sounds like more money. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 April 22, 2004 QuoteSome comparison. I bought my first gear 27 years ago; that was 2 years and 35 jumps after I'd started (also a poor college student). FJC: $40 So... 27 years ago, did you have airplanes then? At that time, the FJC was S/L. The AFF cost is a lot higher. Do you know what the cost for a S/L is now? I saw something posted by Wendy a while back, but can't find it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #20 April 22, 2004 I am greatly disappointed in the article. Much of what was written is pure fabrication. Many of the statements never happened, situatons never happened....facts changed to make for a "good" story. And so it goes with some media.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #21 April 22, 2004 Quotequick break down of getting into the sport (please feel free to add to or disagree with .. gear numbers will be mine) skydive Chicago AFP course (18 jumps training) $1800-2000 depending on how you pay and if you have to repeat any jumps 7 more jumps to get your A (min) do them over 2 days at $75/day for gear thats 150, plus $15 per jump for the ride up..thats 120 required packing course $45 now you buy your own gear USED container $400 +90 for new kill line pilot USED Reserve $600 NEW MAIN (couldn't find what I wanted used) $1600 USED Helmet $40 USED wrist Alti $80 USED Cypres $600 Used Jumpsuit $50 Reserve inspection/pack (nice rigger also hooks up main and inspects all gear ..damn nice guy) $50 rough total $5800 thats to get started say minimum to stay current is 3 repacks per year (no reserve rides) and 2 jumps/month at MINIMUM so just to stay jumping and only get 24 jumps/year you pay 150+ 360 in jumptickets so 510 thats no new gear, no reserve rides no extra classes and a minimum number of jumps .. no not a cheep hobby What about the cost of Beer?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #22 April 22, 2004 I KNEW I missed something.. but if your keeping to the minimums (and not having any reserve rides as you can only pay for 3 repacks a year your not gonna have too many firsts or be rapidly reaching jumps ending in 00 much less 000 but to be fair Beer $200-year (ok maybe thats high.... or low depending on who you are and what you drink) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 April 22, 2004 Damnit, that's not helping me trying to talk myself out of moving to CA or AZ to jump and live on a DZ for a couple of years...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 April 22, 2004 QuoteQuote "Anyone who says skydiving is safer than driving a car is a nutcase. There are about 40,000 skydivers in the U.S. and 30 to 40 deaths a year. I don't think one out of every thousand people getting in a car ends up dead." Ah, but it's not that much better: one in six thousand or so. That's not even an order of magnitude better. 2002 numbers - 38,309 dead, for rate of .1485 / 1000 population. Translates to 1 in 6730. I imagine that if you asked people what they though the difference was between driving and the various recreational sports we do was, they'd expect it to be much greater. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #25 April 22, 2004 QuoteHmm... the problem here is that most of us do both (drive and skydive)! Well, I plan to die anyway. Not soon, and not by any particular method, but I reckon most of us don't skydive to not die, we skydive to live. (Or to put it less zealously, "we skydive to have fun"). Although, if it were possible to live forever by skydiving, I would sign up for that. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
