Jumping with tandem

[Sled14 0]

Probably a dumb question, but I was wondering say when I have at least an A license or B and I got my sibling or friend to go on a tandem, how do you guys think most instructors would feel about letting me jump with them, not taking them but acting like camera guy, just freefalling with them.

The reason I ask this is because some of my friends want to do a tandem and asked me if I could jump with them.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Depends on your DZ. At mine, if the TM has seen you jump, and knows your reputation, and you have good jumps, he will let you. You have to use your head, and realize that 3 or 4 lives depend on you being safe, and slowly moving to the tandem while on level, and never above or below. You also have to plan on breaking off around 6500 or so b/c the tandem usually deploys at 5500, and you cannot be anywhere around it when it does. If you meet all that, then there is a chance you will get to jump.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[skybytch 259]

Depends. I doubt that any tandem instructor out there would want a fresh A or B license holder anywhere near them in the air - you just won't have the skills needed to fly safely with a tandem pair yet.

RWS (manufacturer of the Vector/Sigma tandem systems) says that anyone jumping with a tandem (including camera fliers) needs to have, IIRC, 500 RW jumps or an AFF or tandem rating. There's a good reason for that - a tandem is NOT just another skydive.

Best bet would be to tell your friends that you can be on the same plane with them, they can watch you exit, do their skydive and you'll meet them in the landing area.

[Kris 0]

Ditto what Lisa stated. A tandem is not just another skydive.

There was an incident that happened with a lurker a while back. He collided with the tandem pair and killed his own mother who was the tandem passenger.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Don't listen to the people saying you might be able to find someone who will do it. If you look, none of them will have a tandem rating. If you try to go with your friend, you are doing him a disservice. If you do find someone who will do it, they have bad jugdement, and I wouldn't let a friend of mine jump with them. Read the incident report from one of the tandem fatalities this year.

[skinnyshrek 0]

great response please listen this is the best advice you will get. You may think your ready but your not

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[Ron 7]

Quote

Probably a dumb question, but I was wondering say when I have at least an A license or B and I got my sibling or friend to go on a tandem, how do you guys think most instructors would feel about letting me jump with them, not taking them but acting like camera guy, just freefalling with them.

The reason I ask this is because some of my friends want to do a tandem and asked me if I could jump with them.

I would not let you. People have killed their friends doing just that.

http://www.skydivingfatalities.info/search.asp?MinDate=12%2F14%2F1995&MaxDate=12%2F31%2F1998&Place=Maricopa&State=AZ&Country=&Category=&MinAge=17&MaxAge=78&UnknownAge=on&MinJumps=0&MaxJumps=15000&UnknownJumps=on&AAD=&RSL=&Description=video+tandem+christmas&DescriptionOperator=OR&Lessons=&LessonsOperator=OR

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[bob.dino 0]

For the record, the Australian Op Regs codifies some minimums:

Quote

5.4.7. A parachutist shall not engage in relative work with a Tandem-Master carrying a student unless he or she is the holder of at least a Certificate "C", and has the authorisation of the DZSO and the Tandem-Master for that descent. (See also 5.8.11.)

5.8.11. A Tandem-Master carrying out a tandem descent shall not engage in contact relative work unless he or she has made at least 50 descents as a Tandem-Master since gaining his or her tandem endorsement. (See also 5.4.7.)

You can gain a C licence at 100 jumps. Our DZ has additional requirements:

• 200 jump minimum


• At least 100 jumps in the last year


• CI (~= DZO) sign-off


• TM sign-off for every jump

edit: I should be able to spell codifies correctly the first time.

[NickDG 23]

Have we changed things here in the USA? I thought (technically) you needed an AFF rating to follow or dock on a tandem. Maybe it has changed since USPA took over. I always thought the original standard was weird as I've been donked and crashed into by more than one video person with no ratings at all . . .

NickD BASE 194

[AggieDave 6]

To go along with what everyone else has said, I have no magic jump number. If you have 2000 jumps but I don't know you and have no idea of your awareness or ability on your belly, then sorry but you're not going, although you could ask another one of the TIs. Basically no one with sub 500 jumps is going, since all of my hard work and money for my ratings or my life aren't worth loosing for someone to go geek their friend on a tandem jump. There have been a couple of exceptions in the past, such as the AFF-I, SDU coach with 400 jumps that is a badass flier, he would go lurk tandems with me fairly often. Then again, back when he had even just 300 jumps he could and would fly circles around me on skydives, just one very very good and heads up jumper.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[itllclear 1]

Even if the jumper in freefal with the tandem is highly experienced, stuff happens:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1716271;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

(anyone know how to make this a "clicky?"

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[JohnMitchell 14]

I know where you're coming from, but it's just not safe. You can watch your friend jump out, cout to 6 or 7, then do your jump, and stay the hell away, or better would be to ride up in the plane with them, but get out ahead of them. You're still "jumping" with tehm, but much safer. I've regretted a couple of people I've let follow me on a tandem.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

The DZ where I do most of my jumps will NOT let me jump with tandems because I'm not a tandem rated instructor nor am I an AFF instructor. Yes my last 600 jumps have predominately been hop n' pops where I've been working on my swooping. But my first 750 or so jumps were mainly freefly jumps. But that still isn't good enough to let me jump with tandems.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Travman 6]

Read this and think about it

Quote

Reported by: Becky Freemal
Web produced by: Neil Relyea
Photographed by: 9News
7/4/2005 7:46:13 PM
He was an expert skydiver with 2,300 jumps under his belt, a 4.0
doctoral student at the University of Dayton, a husband and the father
of two young children.

Sean Crossman, 37, of Lebanon, died over the weekend doing what he
loved.

9-news spoke with Crossman's friends who say, through all his
accomplishments, what they remember most is Sean's smile.

They say Sean jumped for fun as well as an instructor.

His friend and pilot Mark Essex says everyone loved jumping with him,
whether for instruction or for simply recreation.

Sean was jumping tandem with one of his students on Saturday when
something went wrong.

When Sean's parachute opened it flew up in front of the cameraman who
was recording the jump, obscuring the view and resulting in a collision.

Andys Note> Trap for new players - Never get in the way of an opening
tandem or the drogue!!! I am sure the did not "fly in front of the
cameraman" but rather the cameraman was in the wrong place at the wrong
time.

The student landed in a field and was able to walk to a farmhouse and
call for help.

Both the cameraman, Jason Yasuda, of Cincinnati, and the student had to
be hospitalized.

Sean Crossman leaves his wife Maureen, a daughter and an eight-month-old
baby boy.

From http://www.wcpo.com/news/2005/local/07/04/fatal_jump_folo.html

[2fat2fly 0]

I've followed lots of friends on tandems but I'll give standard separation and just watch them. Doing this, you are setting yourself up for a crappy spot but it may be an option if the TM doesn't mind and ours know that they can trust me to be nowhere near their skydive.

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[LawnDart21 0]

I'm getting in on this thread alittle late, but I concur with the majority, you'd be hard pressed to find any instructor willing to let you jump with them as a freshly licensed jumper, and if you did find one, they need to have their ratings pulled.

It great you want to jump with your friends, and in time you will be ready. Just keep jumping and jumping and some day you'll get there.

As for me, I will only let someone swoop my tandems if:
1) They have an instructoral rating
or
2) I'm married to them.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Yea Shrek, but for some reason I had a lapse in judgement and let you shoot video on some of my tandems.

[EvilLurker 2]

Better if you ask if you can follow them. I've followed a bunch of tandems, but the TMs know me, discuss the separation time/opening altitudes before the jump, and I ask for feedback after we land. If you're cool, they seem to be okay with it. I doubt they would want you to dock on them with your (or my) jump numbers unless they had a very good idea of your RW skills.

[OzKieran 0]

After doing more than 1200 tandems the people I will NOT let jump with me anymore are the old school old timers that think they know what the hell they are doing! I have had near misses with them and also while doing camera they don't track away and stay on top watching me fall and stay under the tandem! They also have a tendancy to go low so trying to track in shorts (I just use a camera jacket) to get away from them and being low really sucks!!!

The low time jumpers (100+) that I have let come with me I have briefed first and they have done a great job and usually stay more on the preservative side and too scared to f--k up. Was very impressed with them. But I sussed them out big time first and make sure I know who they are/skills etc.

Jump numbers don't mean you are a safe or smart skydiver, it's wether you can plan the jump, jump the plan and stick with. Thinking you know better and changing your mind half way through the jump is what will kill. Fom what I have seen, (so called) experienced jumpers are just as bad if not worse!

My advice to tm's - doesn't matter how many jumps they have, make sure everyone is briefed and does their job and make sure they understand, don't be relaxed with the experienced jumpers also. If someone has 10,000 jumps and doesn't stick with the plan then chew their arse as well!!! IT'S NOT JUST ANOTHER SKYDIVE!

[sundevil777 94]

Don't consider it for at least a couple hundred jumps or so, you don't even know what you don't know.

But, it is a lot of fun to fly with tandems, especially with friends/family, and students that are really digging the experience. I've probably jumped with 30 tandems and docked on most of them, if the conditions are right, it is really a kick for the student. Sometimes the drogue or the student will cause some instability where docking isn't a good idea. Sometimes the fall rate just is so fast or slow that it can be difficult, so you never can be too determined that you must dock.

Be patient, just getting video will give your friends the experience of someone being near or docking on them.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skinnyshrek 0]

Quote

Yea Shrek, but for some reason I had a lapse in judgement and let you shoot video on some of my tandems.

Well i hear you have retired from the sport Jeff i jope that is not true

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[skydiverton 0]

Yep, it's already said.
Whatever rating or jump number you have. The TM is responsible for the safety of the passenger and he can always refuse to allow jumpers or videomen to jump with him.

It's you who has to aniticipate to the high/low falrate and or backslipping tandem.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[riggerrob 558]

Generally, if you have to ask, you are not ready.
At Pitt Meadows only the owner or the senior tandem instructor (me) an approve anyone to jump with a tandem, because we consider it a "high risk, low return."
Normally we only approve a handful of videographers who already have plenty of experience.
The last two people who followed me were Kelly and Gretchen Dunn. Both are old-school skydivers. Kelly helped "invent" the PFF progam and has a chestful of gold and silver medals from world meets. Gretchen is no slouch either. Both of them had recently participated in a 300+ world record formation.