Which is the greater killer, skydiving or base jumping

[Kris 0]

You! Less talking, more jumping!

Sorry, I have to agree with Tom and Bill. I'm friends with a couple of BASE jumpers and there's really no comparison. Besides the fact they both use parachutes, there's no comparison.

Baseball and Cricket both use bats, but they're two different sports.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[MarkM 0]

The comparison I've been told is:

Skydiving: Low chance of dying, small chance of injury requiring long term hospitalization, you'll likely have light injury at some point requiring a short hospital trip.

Base: Decent chance of dying, you'll likely have an injury requiring long term hospitalization, pretty much guaranteed to have a light injury at some point requiring a short hospital trip.

[The111 0]

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eh? A passenger jet pilot has at least one other pilot next to him. His job requires much more skill/training than a cager on the road, but the numbers show it's not riskier.

All variables the same, Joe Schmoe would be much safer behind the wheel of a car than in the cockpit of a jet. The act of driving a car is safer than the act of piloting a jet.

The fact that jet pilots go through so much training and have a backup pilot just reinforces that it is inherently risky. All those precautions make it safer in practice, which is the exact point I was making, and as you said the numbers back that up. If automobile drivers took all the same training/precautions, the numbers would reflect that as well.

My point was the incident ratios of BASE vs skydiving (or anything vs anything else) do not necessarily show with activity is inherently safer. They show which is being practiced more safely, on average.

Example:
Take 100 morons and give them an easy task to do, and 50 of them fail.
Take 100 geniuses and give them a hard task to do and 10 of them fail.
Does that mean the hard task was easier?
No, it just means the hard task got done better in that case study.
(I'm not calling anyone morons or geniuses, just making a point).

I would hope and do assume most BASE jumpers are more cautious than most skydivers, because their sport is more inherently risky. Whatever the numbers would say if we had them, would only tell us which sportsmen are being safer, not necessarily which sport is safer. My point is you can't use statistics to argue how inherently risky something is, you have to use logic. And for many reasons already explained in this thread, BASE is obviously more inherently risky than skyjumping...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mdrejhon 8]

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Baseball and Cricket both use bats, but they're two different sports.

Funny, that was the comparision I was thinking of...and you just answered that. I think Baseball vs Cricket is a more understandable analogy than baseball/pinball. The bats used are somewhat different, just like the parachutes used are somewhat different.

Someday, I do want to try BASE -- but I'm now convinced to wait a long time, plenty of time under an accuracy canopy, do BASE school, and try a jump such as Bridge Day.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You! Less talking, more jumping!

Work won't pay me to jump! And it's raining. But hopefully can get out Thursday afternoon for nightjumping at the NorCal boogie.

And just because you Sooners are having a bad year doesn't mean college football has been cancelled! (sorry, can't resist)

I do accept cricket/baseball as a decent comparison.

[Kris 0]

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Work won't pay me to jump! And it's raining. But hopefully can get out Thursday afternoon for nightjumping at the NorCal boogie.

And just because you Sooners are having a bad year doesn't mean college football has been cancelled! (sorry, can't resist)

I do accept cricket/baseball as a decent comparison.

Damn.... You just had to bag on my Sooners... It's okay, they're sucking this season.

As for the comparison, thanks, I was suddenly inspired.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[goose491 0]

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Likewise, BASE and skydiving have a common ancestry but have gone in different directions.

So you'll yield the common ancestry.

Moreso then common acestry, BASE is Skydiving's ancestry. The first parachutes were taken off objects long before they were tried out of airplanes.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[pirana 0]

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>Does that make the two like baseball and softball?

More like baseball and pinball. They both use balls, and you hit them and they roll and (sometimes) fly, but the similarity ends there.

Oh, oh, oh! I got it! It's like heterosexual and homosexual. And also like Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley. Yeah, that's it!

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[tomvailco 0]

I agree diablo, Damn skydiving and base jumping are about living not dying.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

Or Sharkfucking VS Fishing
Or Headbanging VS Gangbanging
Or...

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[RayLosli 11]

Or 10-way speedstar -Vs- 160 ft. freefall
-
Or turning points on a 4-way -Vs- Going out @ 2 AM with your buddy's and do a Rope assent to gain access to a flight of stairs. Quietly climbing for 1/2 hour. Then waiting for 2 hours while laying on your belly on cold concrete. So you can exit @ the first beam of sun-light in the morning. Then making your way stealthy to the vehicle for a speedy get-away.
.
Or

[billvon 2,400]

>The first parachutes were taken off objects long before they were
> tried out of airplanes.

Have to disagree with you there. The first parachutes were taken out of aircraft (balloons.) Earlier 'tower jumpers' used devices that were as close to parachutes as umbrellas are, and their survival was dependent on low exits and good PLF's more than significant aerodynamic deceleration.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Vs- Going out @ 2 AM with your buddy's and do a Rope assent to gain access to a flight of stairs. Quietly climbing for 1/2 hour. Then waiting for 2 hours while laying on your belly on cold concrete. So you can exit @ the first beam of sun-light in the morning. Then making your way stealthy to the vehicle for a speedy get-away.

You definitely earn your jumps. My buddy has told me the steps to do a simple antenna jump and it's almost comical. I also think about how hard it is to say no to marginal conditions after that much effort.

April 1st is the opening day for sport abalone fishing in Northern California and some people drive 10+ hours to get their. The waves might be breaking 10ft and the water viz making it braille diving, but people go in. A few are sacrificed.

Hopefully the softening of attitudes at the NPS continues.

[freeryde13 0]

yo ....tom, bill and kelp, i've just gotta know. are you guys serious or just fucking around? please tell me your kidding around this whole time.

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[RayLosli 11]

Kelp
..."but people go in. A few are sacrificed."
-

That is not even a close analogy of BASE jumping. It's not about Cheating Death after every jump.
That type of mentality only applies to just a hand full of sick fucks who BASE jump.
-
>>>>>>>>>>>

Kelp
..." I also think about how hard it is to say no to marginal conditions after that much effort. "
-

That observation is pretty good though.
Sometimes it is very hard to step-back and keep your brain in control so you don't do something stupid in BASE.
BUT
In skydiving Usually you can just catch the next turnaround load if you got some dificulties.
Also the DZ owner usually will usually keep you in line to ( His Way of Thinking ) - because He Owns Your Elevator. and the FAA and Insurance costs owns his Ass and also he has love of the sport.

Now Kelp You need to understand. That Shit does NOT apply in BASE. The BASE jumpers Exits are only limited to that individuals Drive and Imagination + Skill.
Nobody tells you No except yourself. That my friend Escalates the danger factor through the fucking roof.

-
As far as the original Q. of Which has the greater casualty ratio? BASE or Skydive.
The ONLY thing they have in common is that the Jumper of both is in control of his or her choices.
Each jumper can also can make the Jump as difficult and Dangerous as he wants BUT the price for failure to complete the end result can lead to cratering-in & a dirt-nap for each.
Dude you wont understand BASE until you just go out and make a few hundred BASE jumps but to the experienced jumper they are Very Different.
The odds for the Dirt-Nap Increase Rapidly Higher if you BASE.
.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Kelp
..."but people go in. A few are sacrificed."
-

That is not even a close analogy of BASE jumping. It's not about Cheating Death after every jump.
That type of mentality only applies to just a hand full of sick fucks who BASE jump.

No analogy was intended. Just noting how well a different sport handles the challenge of knowing when to say no. It's a problem in mountaineering too.

[HydroGuy 0]

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I'm curious if you've ever swum competitively or played water polo?

Yep... In college I only played polo though.

I have never, ever seen anybody use water polo in an analogy or hypothetical comparison before now.

Swimmers are pussies.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[Witelli 0]

I don't know which one has a higher casualty ratio, but there's really no way to tell which is more dangerous. Let's try it this way.

SKYDIVER: Has to jump from an airplane at 14,000 feet and can't pull his chute until he's at 500 feet and only 50 feet from a cliff wall. (This would be considered skydiving)

BASE JUMPER: Has to jump from a 14,000 foot bridge. (This would be considered base jumping)

We have just made skydiving more dangerous. That is, if you want it to be.

[Trae 1]

Hard to answer this definitively without proper access to accurate statistics regarding base deaths and injuries.

A lot of base incidents go unreported and a lot of skydiving incidents get over-reported.

Way more people skydive than Base jump.

Both sports can get an individual the same amount of dead or injured.

From general experience I'd say that Base jumping woud be the more dangerous and provide the more deaths /injuries on a per jump basis.

Being in general a shorter more close to the ground type experience base jumping SHOULD be more dangerous.....it is certainly less forgiving of stupid mistakes than skydiving is.

Most of the skydivers I've known that have died while doing either skydiving or base jumping died base jumping rather than while skydiving .... so that may colour my judgement a little.


That said if you learn Base jumping from the true experts ( not the weekend warriors) you should be able to enjoy a long if not completely injury free career.

• Quote

[kleggo 138]

As for base versus skydiving, base IS skydiving,
__________________________________________________
WOW
You certainly have opportunities to learn, ( as do we all).
I hope you decide to get a bit more open minded if you want to stay alive.

use of aerodynamic deceleration devices to ensure continued participation, does not mean that they are equivalent activities.

learn
be safe

kleggo

[kelpdiver 2]

you're a week late. Hope you managed to read the rest.

[remko 0]

www.dictionary.com is your friend!
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1 entry found for BASE jump:
A parachute jump from high structures and precipitous earth formations, typically from heights of 305 meters (1,000 feet) or less.
[b(uilding) + a(ntenna tower) + s(pan)1 + e(arth) + jump.]BASE-jump v.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

1 entry found for base jumping:
The extreme sport of parachuting from the tops of very tall manmade or natural objects
Etymology: BASE is acronym for building, antenna, span, earth

Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.6)
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2 entries found for skydiving:
To jump and fall freely from an airplane, performing various maneuvers before pulling the ripcord of a parachute.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

OR:

skydiving:
Performing acrobatics in free fall before pulling the ripcord of a parachute

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
parachute:
Rescue equipment consisting of a device that fills with air and retards your fall.

parachuting
Descent with a parachute; "he had done a lot of parachuting in the army" [syn: jump]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

par·a·chute:
1. An apparatus used to retard free fall from an aircraft, consisting of a light, usually hemispherical canopy attached by cords to a harness and worn or stored folded until deployed in descent.
2. Any of various similar unpowered devices that are used for retarding free-speeding or free-falling motion.

par·a·chut·ed, par·a·chut·ing, par·a·chutes:
To drop (supplies or troops, for example) by means of a parachute.
To descend by means of a parachute.

[French : para(sol), parasol; see parasol + chute, fall; see chute.]para·chutic adj.
para·chutist or para·chuter n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
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1 entry found for paraglide:
To pilot a large parafoil aircraft from the harness, to pilot a paraglider
Etymology: para- `dropped by parachute' + glide

Source: Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.6)
=================================================================

Here comes my interpretaion :-)

Skydiving is only the free-fall part of a jump, not necessarily from an aircraft. `Diving trough the sky'. The `dive' in there suggests `headfirst' but can also just mean `submerged' (in air). Parachuting is the part of the jump that you are actually under a parachute, again, not necessarily originating from an aircraft, although it is suggested, depending on the source.

Interesting to note is that a parachute is a drag device and a parafoil a non-rigid wing. So flying a square canopy is not `parachuting' (falling under a parasol). Bottom line is, we all JUMP, FALL or FLY (without and with parafoil or parachute) and LAND (even the paragliders) does it really matter in what discipline?

PS: This was a linguistic approach, anybody feels like diving into the legal interpretation?

--
Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.

[DZJ 0]

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Here comes my interpretaion :-)

Skydiving is only the free-fall part of a jump, not necessarily from an aircraft.

For me skydiving implies a freefall descent from an aircraft, simply because no matter how high a BASE structure is, a jumper's feet are still on solid ground (of one sort or another) at the point of exit (an therefore not in the sky), while a parachutist jumping from an aircraft is unquestionably airborne.

[mjosparky 3]

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Interesting to note is that a parachute is a drag device and a parafoil a non-rigid wing.

The ram-air canopy, while a semi- rigid wing, is still classified as an aerodynamic deceleration devise.

Sparky

http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~adstc/PUBLICATIONS/tofc1st.html

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[remko 0]

You are saying that the `sky' is always above us, as seen from the earth, and that we need an aircraft to enter it, to be able to dive into it. That's an interesting observation.
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sky:
The expanse of air over any given point on the earth; the upper atmosphere as seen from the earth's surface.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
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So:
BASE-jumpers are not skydivers, but they can be free-fallers. They are parachutists if they jump a round and canopy pilots if they jump a non-rigid wing.

Aircraft-jumpers are skydivers, free-fallers, parachutists if they jump a round and canopy pilots if they jump a non-rigid wing.

--
Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation.