Trump tax plan

[Faicon9493 114]

How do you successfully push a tax cut bill with a 26% approval rating and tell the truth at the same time?

[Phil1111 911]

Faicon9493

How do you successfully push a tax cut bill with a 26% approval rating and tell the truth at the same time?

You check to make sure that the checks from the lobbyists have cleared your accounts. You double check to make sure office staff has the talking points straight to lie about the facts.

Beyond that, the approval ratings don't take into account the majority of people, That haven't fully considered the personal implications of whats to come.

[billvon 2,400]

>How do you successfully push a tax cut bill with a 26% approval rating and tell the truth
>at the same time?

What is this "truth" thing you speak of? Trump is the least honest president the US has ever had; most of his statements are lies.

[ryoder 1,384]

Ann Coulters response to Rubio:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/941710865467871232
Not sure if serious.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,255]

ryoder

Ann Coulters response to Rubio:
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/941710865467871232
Not sure if serious.

Random Twitterer's response to Coulter:

It's ok Ann. One day you'll find another person that's a knockoff leather handbag full of scorpions and copies of Mein Kampf

Definitely serious.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[lummy 4]

I couldn't stop laughing from reading Frederick Douglass' replies

"Will you marry me? I'm dead for real and you're dead on the inside. I think it will work"

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[normiss 622]

the correction is even better:

*you're. Sorry about that, Ann. I know how you're a grammar nazi. And also, just, like, well a regular nazi.

[headoverheels 291]

billvon

>How do you successfully push a tax cut bill with a 26% approval rating and tell the truth
>at the same time?

What is this "truth" thing you speak of? Trump is the least honest president the US has ever had; most of his statements are lies.

His promise to get rid of the carried interest b.s. was a lie, as was his promise (in the form of proposed brackets) to get rid of the marriage penalty.

[billvon 2,400]

A good graphic to show how the GOP convinced principled, ethical senators (like, say, Bob Corker) to vote for the tax bill:

(from http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/swamping-the-drain-with-senator-bob-corker-and-the-republican-tax-bill)

[billvon 2,400]

>Are people expecting to see MORE of an income boost with larger tax credits and
>lower brackets and they're just disappointed that it's not THOUSANDS more bucks
>over the current rules?

?? No. Current tax rules seem pretty fair. What I am worried about is the trillion or so this will add to the debt.

I know, some people think a trillion isn't that much money, as long as republican contributors get the tax cut they paid for. But a trillion here and a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking real money.

[normiss 622]

It bugs me to hear it referred to as a "Tax Plan".
It's actually a Wealthy Entitlement Bill.

[Phil1111 911]

Iago

I'm really not sure what everyone expects to see out of this 'tax reform.' Under the 2017 rules Mom, Dad, and two kids doesn't owe any fed until they hit about $50k AGI (assuming not itemized and no State/Property tax.) Below that they will receive an income boost due to the refundable $1000 a kid tax credit.

Are people expecting to see MORE of an income boost with larger tax credits and lower brackets and they're just disappointed that it's not THOUSANDS more bucks over the current rules?

How Trump’s Tax Plan Could Hose Working-Class Parents
By Jordan Weissmann
Dec. 15, 2017, 2:13 PM
As per revised, current tax proposal in the combined house and senate bill.

Consider a married couple with two children earning $50,000. Today, they’d be allowed to take the standard deduction, worth $12,700, plus four personal exemptions, worth $16,200—bringing their tax-exempt income all the way up to $28,900. Under the Trump plan, they’d only have a single $24,000 deduction. As a result, they’d end up paying $888 more in taxes, as University of Chicago Law School’s Daniel Hemel and Kyle Rozema noted in a blog post Thursday. ...

“The key takeaway is that all working-class couples with children whose adjusted gross incomes fall between $24,000 and $60,000 will pay more in taxes under the Trump plan than under the current tax system,” they write.
https://slate.com/business/2017/12/the-gop-tax-plan-could-raise-taxes-on-single-moms-and-working-class-couples.html

Family Credits and Deductions
These changes would expire in 2025....

Beginning in 2019, the inflation gauge used to index the standard deduction will change in a way that is likely to accelerate bracket creep (see below)....

The bill would retain the current structure of seven individual income tax brackets,
The changes would be temporary, going into effect in 2018 and expiring after 2025, as would be the case with most personal tax breaks included in the bill.

Corporate Tax Rate
The bill would set the corporate tax rate at 21%, beginning in 2018, and repeal the corporate alternative minimum tax. Unlike tax breaks for individuals, these provisions would not expire.
https://www.investopedia.com/news/trumps-tax-reform-what-can-be-done/

As a frequent poster here likes to say: "The Government shouldn't pick winners and losers".

Uh yeah. Favorable provisions for families and those earning under 100K ALL EXPIRE! For corporations, no expiration.

A majority of Americans say that President Trump’s policies have not helped middle-class families, according to a new Monmouth University poll.

Though Trump has touted the GOP tax plan as a “gift” to middle class families, 53 percent of respondents said that middle class families have benefited “not at all” from his policies.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/365422-poll-majority-says-trump-policies-have-not-helped-middle-class

Cost of GOP tax plan could exceed $2 trillion
By Naomi Jagoda - 12/18/17 01:32 PM EST

The GOP tax bill would cost significantly more if tax cuts that are temporary in the legislation are eventually made permanent, according to two new reports.

Most of the bill's changes for individuals sunsets in 2025, even as a cut to the corporate rate from 35 percent to 21 percent is made permanent.

If future Congresses decide to extend the lower tax rates for individuals and families rather than allow them to expire, and also extends other temporary provisions, the bill will end up costing $2 trillion to $2.2 trillion, according to a report by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a nonpartisan deficit hawk group.

Even accounting for economic growth, it predicts the bill would add $1.5 trillion to $1.7 trillion to the debt — bringing debt levels close to 100 percent of the nation's GDP.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/365446-analyses-cost-of-gop-tax-plan-could-exceed-2-trillion-if-made-permanent

[rushmc 18]

normiss

It bugs me to hear it referred to as a "Tax Plan".
It's actually a Wealthy Entitlement Bill.

You don't leave any of the Kool-Aid for anybody do you...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JoeWeber 2,299]

rushmc

***It bugs me to hear it referred to as a "Tax Plan".
It's actually a Wealthy Entitlement Bill.

You don't leave any of the Kool-Aid for anybody do you...

Great obfuscation, thanks. Did you know that No license is an anagram for insolence, no silence and also, interestingly, senile con. Weird, huh?

[mistercwood 287]

normiss

It bugs me to hear it referred to as a "Tax Plan".
It's actually a Wealthy Entitlement Bill.

Pssssst. Can't use that word anymore, dontchaknow??

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[normiss 622]

So you haven't read even a piece of the bill I see.

Enjoy your temporary bribe, I mean tax break.
Debt our grandchildren will inherit.
It's flat out criminal.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Iago

I'm still not seeing the problem for the 'working class heros' in the equation, which seems to be a large focus for the media.

It's really not a big deal for the working class.

It's a huge deal for the rich and for businesses.

Why do you think that Wall St has gone ape in recent weeks?

They know that they will be able to make much bigger profits (and pay more dividends) because they will be getting huge tax breaks.

And the deficit will rise.

A lot.

Coming from the party that shut the government down a few years ago because they didn't want Obama to increase the deficit, it's hilarious.

It's pretty clear that this tax bill, along with the passing of "net neutrality" is nothing more than the politicians doing their master's bidding.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Iago,

Quote

not seeing the problem for the 'working class heros'

I accept that it is subjective, but I see it in the deficit increases.

IMO we cannot simply 'kick this can' down the road for future generations to pay for.

IMO we should have lowered the corp. rate only slightly, and increased the taxes on the middle class about 1/2%; just enough to get some more money coming in without a large impact on their finances.

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,623]

JerryBaumchen

IMO we cannot simply 'kick this can' down the road for future generations to pay for.

The USA has been doing it since 1835. Why stop now?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi John,

Quote

Why stop now?

For me, it is because it is now too much of our ( national ) net worth.

A deficit is not all bad. You can use it for those lean years, war years, etc, yet pay it back when you have good years.

Sort of like my credit card; I never let it get to the amount that I cannot comfortably pay off at the end of each month. That means I often forego some purchase(s) until later.

One very basic problem today, is that we ( the American people ) do not want to give up anything during our war years. It's the old guns vs butter dilemma.

No two of us see any fiscal policy the same; you, me, or the next guy in line.

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,623]

JerryBaumchen

Hi John,

Quote

Why stop now?

For me, it is because it is now too much of our ( national ) net worth.

A deficit is not all bad. You can use it for those lean years, war years, etc, yet pay it back when you have good years.

Sort of like my credit card; I never let it get to the amount that I cannot comfortably pay off at the end of each month. That means I often forego some purchase(s) until later.

One very basic problem today, is that we ( the American people ) do not want to give up anything during our war years. It's the old guns vs butter dilemma.

No two of us see any fiscal policy the same; you, me, or the next guy in line.

Jerry Baumchen

I bet you had a mortgage that was a larger % of your income than our national debt is as a % of GDP.

I certainly did. And I managed to pay it off, which is not a requirement for the national debt.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,255]

Did you keep remortgaging every year though?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,623]

Iago

******

I'm still not seeing the problem for the 'working class heros' in the equation, which seems to be a large focus for the media.

It's really not a big deal for the working class.

It's a huge deal for the rich and for businesses.

Why do you think that Wall St has gone ape in recent weeks?

They know that they will be able to make much bigger profits (and pay more dividends) because they will be getting huge tax breaks.

And the deficit will rise.

A lot.

Coming from the party that shut the government down a few years ago because they didn't want Obama to increase the deficit, it's hilarious.

It's pretty clear that this tax bill, along with the passing of "net neutrality" is nothing more than the politicians doing their master's bidding.

Ah, very good point. Well, I can say that I'm with you and I don't like large deficits. I wouldn't mind giving 'average joe' people a few hundred extra bucks in their pockets since in the end the amount of money involved is miniscule compared to the size of the Federal budget.

I don't have a personal problem with the GOP's tax bill.

What I really object to are the lies, lies and more lies the GOP has used to get it passed.

It is NOT simplification,
it is NOT a great benefit to the middle class and poor,
it IS a giveaway to the wealthy,
it DOES increase the deficit...

all contrary to the promises on which Trump and the GOP were elected.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

jakee

Did you keep remortgaging every year though?

No, but then I have a finite lifespan but a nation, in principle at least, does not.

If considered as a continuing FAMILY then yes, our family has continuously had mortgage debt for well over 100 years that I am aware of, and continues to do so in my kids generation...

I suggest that a nation is more akin to a family than like an individual.

Taken over a large enough family I expect it would look like this:
mathworld.wolfram.com/Convolution.html

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nolhtairt 0]

headoverheels

***>How do you successfully push a tax cut bill with a 26% approval rating and tell the truth
>at the same time?

What is this "truth" thing you speak of? Trump is the least honest president the US has ever had; most of his statements are lies.

His promise to get rid of the carried interest b.s. was a lie, as was his promise (in the form of proposed brackets) to get rid of the marriage penalty.

Well, I don't know all the details, but promises aren't always, if rarely kept. Congress writes the bills, not Trump. He can sign the bill into law or veto it.