Trump tax plan

[rushmc 18]

mistercwood

***It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win. God it's got to be hard for you

Dude the numbers are there in black and white. The average Joe is going to get a small tax reprieve for a few years and then their taxes will go up. The wealthy will get a BIG tax cut that doesn't expire. And it's going to cost over a trillion taxpayer dollars.

How on earth can you consider that a win, are you mental???

Yes. The numbers are very clear.

You need to find the real numbers.

No tax cut in history lowered the dollars received by the treasury. That is fact.

Spending is the issue.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

Which one of these is you, Marc?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

******It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win. God it's got to be hard for you

Dude the numbers are there in black and white. The average Joe is going to get a small tax reprieve for a few years and then their taxes will go up. The wealthy will get a BIG tax cut that doesn't expire. And it's going to cost over a trillion taxpayer dollars.

How on earth can you consider that a win, are you mental???

Yes. The numbers are very clear.



Like the CBO's numbers? Or Congress' nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation's numbers, which found that the tax bill will add over $1 TRILLION to the deficit over the next 10 years?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 911]

rushmc

******It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win. God it's got to be hard for you

Dude the numbers are there in black and white. The average Joe is going to get a small tax reprieve for a few years and then their taxes will go up. The wealthy will get a BIG tax cut that doesn't expire. And it's going to cost over a trillion taxpayer dollars.

How on earth can you consider that a win, are you mental???

Yes. The numbers are very clear.

You need to find the real numbers.

No tax cut in history lowered the dollars received by the treasury. That is fact.

Spending is the issue.

I have quoted your post but you need not reply directly as the quote reference was made solely for reference purposes.

What we learned from Reagan’s tax cuts
David Wessel
Friday, December 8, 2017

Q. Did the 1981 Reagan tax cut spur enough economic growth that it paid for itself?

A. When Ronald Reagan arrived in Washington in 1981, circumstances were very different than they are today. Inflation was nearly 10 percent. The Federal Reserve had pushed interest rates into double digits. The federal debt was about half what it is today, measured as a share of the economy. The Reagan tax cut was huge. The top rate fell from 70 percent to 50 percent. The tax cut didn’t pay for itself. According to later Treasury estimates, it reduced federal revenues by about 9 percent
in the first couple of years. In fact, most of the top Reagan administration officials didn’t think the tax cut would pay for itself. They were counting on spending cuts to avoid blowing up the deficit. But they never materialized.

Q. So the spending cuts never materialized, the deficit increased, and then what?

A. As projections for the deficit worsened, it became clear that the 1981 tax cut was too big. So with Reagan’s signature, Congress undid a good chunk of the 1981 tax cut by raising taxes a lot in 1982, 1983, 1984 and 1987. George H.W. Bush signed another tax increase in 1990 and Bill Clinton did the same in 1993. One lesson from that history: When tax cuts are really too big to be sustainable, they’re often followed by tax increases."
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/12/08/what-we-learned-from-reagans-tax-cuts/


"The Brookings Institution is a century-old American research group on Think Tank Row in Washington, D.C.[1] It conducts research and education in the social sciences, primarily in economics, metropolitan policy, governance, foreign policy, and global economy and development.[2][3] Its stated mission is to "provide innovative and practical recommendations that advance three broad goals: strengthen American democracy; foster the economic and social welfare, security and opportunity of all Americans; and secure a more open, safe, prosperous, and cooperative international system."[1]...

Brookings states that its staff "represent diverse points of view" and describes itself as non-partisan,[1][15] and the media sometimes describes Brookings as either "conservative",[16] "centrist"[17] or "liberal."[18] An academic analysis of Congressional records from 1993 to 2002 found that Brookings was referenced by conservative politicians almost as frequently as liberal politicians, earning a score of 53 on a 1–100 scale with 100 representing the most liberal score.[19] The same study found Brookings to be the most frequently cited think tank by the U.S. media and politicians.[19]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Institution

[wmw999 2,122]

You're close to Kansas. Do you have a good analysis for how the trickle-down-ization of its taxing has worked?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

And the CBO has been correct how many times in your lifetime?




Thanks John,
I needed that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

The Reagan years brought record revenues to the US treasury.

THAT is a fact!

You love your spin I see.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

You're close to Kansas. Do you have a good analysis for how the trickle-down-ization of its taxing has worked?

Wendy P.

The left has spent decades trying to show the Reagan cuts were bad,

Trickle down does and did work.

Longest growth period ever seen.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,400]

>The left has spent decades trying to show the Reagan cuts were bad

You didn't answer Wendy's question (probably because it would make your head explode.) So I'll answer it for you:
=======================
As Trump Proposes Tax Cuts, Kansas Deals With Aftermath Of Experiment

In 2012, Republican Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas pushed reforms through the Legislature that included across-the-board income tax reductions. But rather than boosting the economy, the cuts caused revenues to plummet. Lawmakers now seek to close a $900 million budget gap over the next two years.

October 25, 20172:55 PM ET
Jeremy Hobson NPR

Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback is notorious for what is known as the Kansas experiment, a bold effort to assert the power of limited government.

In 2012, the Republican governor pushed reforms through the state Legislature that dramatically cut income taxes across the board. Brownback boasted the plan would deliver a "shot of adrenaline" to the Kansas economy.

But the opposite happened.

Revenues shrank, and the economy grew more slowly than in neighboring states and the country as a whole. Kansas' bond rating plummeted, and the state cut funding to education and infrastructure.

Last year, the Republican-controlled state Legislature voted to roll back the tax cuts, but Kansas is still dealing with the aftermath of this bold experiment. State lawmakers are now seeking to close a $900 million budget gap over the next two years.
============================

>Trickle down does and did work.

Didn't work in Kansas. Didn't work for Reagan; he had to raise taxes shortly after his 'experiment' started. And during his presidency the national debt tripled, and the U.S. went from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation.

So if your goals are to dramatically increase debt I guess it did work.

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

No tax cut in history lowered the dollars received by the treasury.

But you just said this is a not a tax cut. You just said that people were going to pay more federal income tax now because their state tax deduction is gone.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>The left has spent decades trying to show the Reagan cuts were bad

You didn't answer Wendy's question (probably because it would make your head explode.) So I'll answer it for you:
=======================
As Trump Proposes Tax Cuts, Kansas Deals With Aftermath Of Experiment

In 2012, Republican Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas pushed reforms through the Legislature that included across-the-board income tax reductions. But rather than boosting the economy, the cuts caused revenues to plummet. Lawmakers now seek to close a $900 million budget gap over the next two years.

October 25, 20172:55 PM ET
Jeremy Hobson NPR

Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback is notorious for what is known as the Kansas experiment, a bold effort to assert the power of limited government.

In 2012, the Republican governor pushed reforms through the state Legislature that dramatically cut income taxes across the board. Brownback boasted the plan would deliver a "shot of adrenaline" to the Kansas economy.

But the opposite happened.

Revenues shrank, and the economy grew more slowly than in neighboring states and the country as a whole. Kansas' bond rating plummeted, and the state cut funding to education and infrastructure.

Last year, the Republican-controlled state Legislature voted to roll back the tax cuts, but Kansas is still dealing with the aftermath of this bold experiment. State lawmakers are now seeking to close a $900 million budget gap over the next two years.
============================

>Trickle down does and did work.

Didn't work in Kansas. Didn't work for Reagan; he had to raise taxes shortly after his 'experiment' started. And during his presidency the national debt tripled, and the U.S. went from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation.

So if your goals are to dramatically increase debt I guess it did work.

And we were in an Obama "recovery".

But I can see how the left would want to single source the issue..

and Obama added more to debet that all the other presidents combined.

and if spending levels are held, those numbers will look better.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,400]

>And we were in an Obama "recovery".

Right. And?

>and Obama added more to debet that all the other presidents combined.

Yep. And Trump will too - because inflation increases all financial numbers, and he's already signed a 1.5 trillion hit into the budget.

(BTW note that on a percentage basis, Reagan increased the debt by 186% - Obama by 82%. So Obama's still living in the shadow of the greatest debt raiser ever.)

Both Reagan and Obama spent billions on government programs during the recessions they inherited - Reagan on military, Obama on infrastructure. This is Kenseyan spending, based on the premise that if the government spends enough money, you can help the country recover from a recession.

Reagan had the fantasy that the economy would recover so much that tax receipts would go up and everyone would be happy. They went down instead. So he had to raise taxes later - and STILL tripled the deficit.

But that's OK in the long run, as long as you do both - lower taxes during recessions and raise taxes during good times to make up for the (new) debt.

We are now in a strong economy. It's insane to add $1.5 trillion to the debt to make it even stronger; we should be taking this opportunity to pay down the debt we incurred due to the recovery spending. What happens when the next recession comes?

(Trick question - the country will default on its loans and you will blame a democrat.)

[Faicon9493 114]

billvon

A good graphic to show how the GOP convinced principled, ethical senators (like, say, Bob Corker) to vote for the tax bill:

(from http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/swamping-the-drain-with-senator-bob-corker-and-the-republican-tax-bill)

I think the deal with Corker was simple greed or he was handed the manila folder containing things he didn't want the world (or his wife) to see.

[ryoder 1,384]

Faicon9493

***A good graphic to show how the GOP convinced principled, ethical senators (like, say, Bob Corker) to vote for the tax bill:

(from http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/swamping-the-drain-with-senator-bob-corker-and-the-republican-tax-bill)

I think the deal with Corker was simple greed or he was handed the manila folder containing things he didn't want the world (or his wife) to see.

Well, this article about Corker is quite interesting!

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-bob-corker-corrupt-what-a-surprise-w514493

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kallend 1,623]

Strange, don't you think, that Reagan cut taxes and increased the debt by 186%. Bush cut taxes and increased the debt by over 100% AND gave us the biggest recession since the 1930s.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

Strange, don't you think, that Reagan cut taxes and increased the debt by 186%. Bush cut taxes and increased the debt by over 100% AND gave us the biggest recession since the 1930s.

That didn't happen because of a lack of tax revenues

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

***Strange, don't you think, that Reagan cut taxes and increased the debt by 186%. Bush cut taxes and increased the debt by over 100% AND gave us the biggest recession since the 1930s.

That didn't happen because of a lack of tax revenues

Yes, the Deficit Fairy did it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 197]

kallend

******Strange, don't you think, that Reagan cut taxes and increased the debt by 186%. Bush cut taxes and increased the debt by over 100% AND gave us the biggest recession since the 1930s.

That didn't happen because of a lack of tax revenues

Yes, the Deficit Fairy did it.

So you think the tax cuts caused the recession?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 1,623]

Ryan and Trump promised a tax bill that would be so simple you could file your taxes on a postcard.

/www.washingtonexaminer.com/watch-trump-kisses-tax-return-postcard-after-republicans-unveil-new-tax-reform-plan/article/2639468

Why, then, are tax accountants suddenly in such high demand?

www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/im-a-rock-star-the-tax-bill-has-turned-americas-accountants-into-very-popular-people/2017/12/28/fd79c9b8-eb2c-11e7-b698-91d4e35920a3_story.html?utm_term=.62f09817db9b&wpisrc=nl_rainbow&wpmm=1

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.