Trump tax plan

[gowlerk 1,913]

Quote

Well, I don't know all the details, but promises aren't always, if rarely kept. Congress writes the bills, not Trump. He can sign the bill into law or veto it.

Good point. It's not really a Trump tax plan. It's more a Ryan/McConnell plan.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi John,

Quote

I bet you had a mortgage that was a larger % of your income than our national debt is as a % of GDP.

I'll take that bet. I have never had a mortgage that was more than my annual income.

I do realize that I am probably in the less than 0.0001% of people in this country.

It's all about money management.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I actually built my own house; did about 85+% of the actual labor. Today, that house is worth about $500,00; but, I no longer own it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Bill,

Quote

significant tax breaks to real estate companies

So much for helping Joe SixPack.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/orrin-hatch-fesses-special-break-gop-tax-bill-set-alarms-n830931

What was it, Make America Great Again.

Great for who?

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,400]

Lawyers and CPA's are already drooling over this tax bill. Since it was written in such a hurry there are a lot of loopholes, and lawyers will be paid tens of thousands to reduce rich people's taxes by millions by exploiting mistakes and gaps (often referred to as "glitches") in the tax bill. There are even more incentives to take business outside the US.

From a report by a dozen tax scholars who have analyzed the latest version of the bill:

Earlier this month, we posted a report identifying key weaknesses in the Senate and House tax
bills.1 Unfortunately, many of the same basic weaknesses still exist in the newly released
conference bill (also known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act or TCJA). While some issues were
addressed, others were made worse, and the new bill introduces fundamental—and in our view
insurmountable—structural problems to the income tax.

[Loopholes include:]

C-corporations will be used to shelter income from the top ordinary income rate

The conference bill will allow well-advised taxpayers to circumvent the limitations on eligibility for the special tax treatment of pass-through businesses. The pass-through provision allows eligible taxpayers to reduce their taxable business income by 20%, and the complex rules involved will invite plenty of gaming opportunities. There is no particular logic to who clearly fits into the preferred categories, and the game will be to get within the haphazard lines. In fact, the conference bill, while adopting much of the Senate’s proposal, worsens matters along an important dimension. The conference bill allows owners of firms with no wages whatsoever, and just certain kinds of property, to take advantage of the lower rate.

The conference bill will invite a variety of tax planning and avoidance opportunities for taxpayers with international operations. For instance, taxpayers may seek to claim the lower export rate when they sell products abroad even when those products are sold right back into the United States.

We expect 2018 to be something of a “wild west” for well-advised taxpayers and their advisors,
who will rush to create “facts on the ground” that would hinder IRS efforts to reverse some of
the gaming.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4332263/The-Games-They-Will-Play-Update.pdf

==================
Republicans Already Say They’ll Need Another Bill To Fix Their Tax Mistakes

Normally, you’d want to fix problems before passing a law, not after.

Arthur Delaney and Jonathan Cohn
REUTERS

WASHINGTON ― Republicans wrote their massive tax legislation in such a rush that even before they’ve sent it to the president’s desk, they’re already talking about writing another bill to fix all the mistakes in the first one.

Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas), the lead author of the tax legislation in the House of Representatives, said Friday that he expected Congress would need to draft another bill to make “technical corrections.”

“I can’t imagine any major undertaking like this that doesn’t require technical corrections in the future,” Brady told reporters.

Republicans have repeatedly adjusted major provisions of their legislation over the past several weeks. The final version of the bill released Friday contained yet more significant changes to a business deduction that tax experts have warned could result in a lot of creative accounting and unintended consequences.
=====================

[kallend 1,623]

Iago

Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

*** Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

kallend

*** Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Phil1111 911]

rushmc

****** Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

Sure, that makes perfect sense. Money spent on education, roads,LE and other infrastructure. Is better spent on deductible breaks for billionaire property developers. While borrowing billions more from China to pay for it. Then passing the debt onto American children.

Americans should be stupid,afraid of crime, in the dark, digging coal and hiding behind walls.

[billvon 2,400]

>It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

You've got that backwards. The red states are the welfare states; the blue states pay more to the Fed than they get from it. We've been subsidizing your entitlements for years.

[billvon 2,400]

> I'd rather have simpler legislation that people can read and understand.

How would that help the big GOP donors?

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

You've got that backwards. The red states are the welfare states; the blue states pay more to the Fed than they get from it. We've been subsidizing your entitlements for years.

Nope, I got it right. By removing the state tax deductions from the federal income tax those in the Democratic states such as California and New York will now have to pay their fair share of federal taxes. About time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Rick 67]

kallend

*** Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

We can deduct some expenses and no not personal expenses but all profit is treated as pass through income as if we drained our company bank account at the end of every year.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[jakee 1,255]

rushmc

***>It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

You've got that backwards. The red states are the welfare states; the blue states pay more to the Fed than they get from it. We've been subsidizing your entitlements for years.

Nope, I got it right. By removing the state tax deductions from the federal income tax those in the Democratic states such as California and New York will now have to pay their fair share of federal taxes. About time

And yet we know that blue states are already overwhelmingly the net contributors to the national budget through Federal income tax, despite that tax being artificially low. So if under the Trump tax plan those federal income taxes are going to go up, it will only emphasise just how much the blue states subsidise the welfare dependent red states that can't stand on their own two feet. Hmm, it almost sounds like you're making the argument that higher tax rates... work. Is that what you're doing?

And since state income taxes aren't going to go away, and you're saying that Federal income taxes (in blue states anyway) are going to go up... your argument relies on saying that Trump's tax plan will increase the overall income tax burden on American families. Is that what you're saying, Rush? Is Trump's tax plan an income tax hike?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Phil1111 911]

rushmc

***>It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

You've got that backwards. The red states are the welfare states; the blue states pay more to the Fed than they get from it. We've been subsidizing your entitlements for years.

Nope, I got it right. By removing the state tax deductions from the federal income tax those in the Democratic states such as California and New York will now have to pay their fair share of federal taxes. About time

So you're saying that:

"New York sent nearly $41 billion more to Washington than it received back in federal spending — more than double the gap four years ago, according to a report released on Tuesday."
https://nypost.com/2017/10/03/new-york-gives-billions-more-than-it-gets-in-federal-spending/

"That same year, California paid about $369 billion in total federal tax -- or about $13 billion more than it received -- according to the Internal Revenue Service Data Book, 2014.

Another widely-cited study from 2007 says California received only 78 cents for every dollar it paid in federal taxes.
http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2017/feb/14/does-california-give-more-it-gets-dc/

Just 14% of CEOs surveyed by Yale University said their companies plan to make large, immediate capital investments in the United States if the tax overhaul passes. Capital investments, like building plants and upgrading equipment, can lead to hiring...

Only a slim majority of the CEOs, 55%, said the Republican tax package should be signed into law....

Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, who leads the Yale CEO Summit, said in an interview that it's "astounding" how few companies plan to reinvest their tax savings.

He called the idea of a jobs boom from the tax plan "a lot of smoke and mirrors," especially because the unemployment rate is just 4.1% and companies already have plenty of cash to make investments.

Sonnenfeld declined to name the CEOs who participated in the poll. He said it included "Trump supporters" and former members of the president's now-defunct advisory councils of business leaders."
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/19/investing/tax-plan-jobs-trump-ceo-yale-survey/index.html

What is most interesting about the above story. Is that 45% of CEO's that took place in the aforementioned survey. Took the position of US national interests are more important than their own companies. That their own stock bonuses, options and corporate profits are less important than the US national interest. In rejecting this tax "relief" bill.

Since fact matters so little to you, FOX and Breitbart. Perhaps you could work part time for them as a fact checker?

[kallend 1,623]

Rick

****** Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

We can deduct some expenses and no not personal expenses but all profit is treated as pass through income as if we drained our company bank account at the end of every year.

What you are allowed to do and what some small business owners actually do are quite different things.

Back when the IRS was still funded adequately to have a compliance operation, the highest level of tax cheating was consistently found among small business owners.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

***>It's way past time for the federal government to stop subsidizing Democratic states High tax rates

You've got that backwards. The red states are the welfare states; the blue states pay more to the Fed than they get from it. We've been subsidizing your entitlements for years.

Nope, I got it right. By removing the state tax deductions from the federal income tax those in the Democratic states such as California and New York will now have to pay their fair share of federal taxes. About time

WRONG.

AGAIN.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,122]

I actually looked at which states had income tax and which didn't, as compared with their "recipient vs. donor" on the national level status. Didn't see much association. Especially when comparing rates.

But I didn't go very far, other than finding a couple of throw-down websites, copying the numbers, and sorting them this way and that.

Man, I'm on a roll today; three posts!

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Rick 67]

kallend

********* Guido's Pizza on the corner and the local Quicky Mart are probably LLCs and the money goes on the owners personal tax filing at regular income rates.

So? It's not like they can't deduct all their expenses (and knowing a lot of small business owners, I'm pretty sure they deduct a lot of personal expenses too).

We can deduct some expenses and no not personal expenses but all profit is treated as pass through income as if we drained our company bank account at the end of every year.

What you are allowed to do and what some small business owners actually do are quite different things.

Back when the IRS was still funded adequately to have a compliance operation, the highest level of tax cheating was consistently found among small business owners.

I get what you are saying. We MAY have operated that way at one time but we try to stay legit as we are growing.
I was more commenting on the pass through. I pay taxes every year on my share of the company profits as pass through income. Realistically we are not pulling all the profit out of the company every year so I don't really see that money that I am paying personal taxes on.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[billvon 2,400]

>Nope, I got it right.

Nope. Red states are, in general, the welfare states; blue states pay for them. Some facts:

Percentage of federal taxes paid by state:
Blue 39%
Purple 36%
Red 34%

Percentage of federal money taken by state:
Blue 30%
Purple 33%
Red 36%

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/17/red-states-tax-takers-blue-states-tax-makers/

But if this sort of freeloading makes you feel bad, feel free to send a few billion to states like California to pay us back.

It would be fascinating to see where you got that misinformation.

[Phil1111 911]

This is by far the best analysis of the new tax legislation. It should be required reading.

Two days before Congress gave final approval, a group of 13 tax law experts released the most incisive critique of the tax bill to date, a 30-page document called “The Games They Will Play: An Update on the Conference Committee Tax Bill.”


News Posted on December 15, 2017
Professor Shanske’s Tax Reform Paper Draws Massive Downloads, Coverage in Forbes, New Republic, Wall Street Journal

A research paper co-authored by Professor Darien Shanske and other leading tax law scholars has been downloaded more than 29,000 times since being published online on December 7 and drawn extensive media coverage including articles in Forbes, New Republic, McClatchy News Service, Slate, Bloomberg BNA, Politico, CALmatters, the Wall Street Journal, and Financial Times, among many others.
https://law.ucdavis.edu/news/news.aspx?id=8769
^^^^^^^^^
This link will take you to a review of this 30 page report which in turn has links to about a dozen news analysis of the tax reports. With all kinds of tips on how to avoid tax and prepare for the new legislation.

The paper, “The Games They Will Play: Tax Games, Roadblocks, and Glitches Under the New Legislation” is already among the most downloaded of any paper published during 2017 on the Social Sciences Resource Network (SSRN), an online repository for scholarly works. In the paper, Shanske and his co-authors criticize the bill as the product of a “rushed and closed process, without adequate regard for the intricacies of the tax law and the risk of unintended consequences.” They point out potential loopholes that are likely to result in reduced revenues and increased deficits.

The primary authors of the report — Ari Glogower, David Kamin, Rebecca Kysar, and Darien Shanske — describe the legislation as “a substantial blow to the basic integrity of the income tax” that will “advantage the well-advised in ways that are both deliberate and inadvertent.”

This is the abbreviated NYT story link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/opinion/republican-tax-bill-trump-corker.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

This is the whole 30 page report link:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3089423

[rushmc 18]

It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win. God it's got to be hard for you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mistercwood 287]

rushmc

It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win. God it's got to be hard for you

Dude the numbers are there in black and white. The average Joe is going to get a small tax reprieve for a few years and then their taxes will go up. The wealthy will get a BIG tax cut that doesn't expire. And it's going to cost over a trillion taxpayer dollars.

How on earth can you consider that a win, are you mental???

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[billvon 2,400]

>It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win.

It sure is funny to watch you swallow every talking point Trump hands you and regurgitate it unadulterated by consideration.

[jakee 1,255]

rushmc

It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win.

How do the people of the US win? You just said that you think income taxes are going up.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>It sure is fun to see Trump and the people of the United States win.

It sure is funny to watch you swallow every talking point Trump hands you and regurgitate it unadulterated by consideration.

The irony in your post is very clear.

Trump and the people of this country keep winning. I look forward to the next 7years of a Trump presidency

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln