Russiagate

[SkyDekker 1,155]

You agreed with Rush that my post was delusional.

Now you are arguing the intent is difficult to prove and has to be specific. Clearly indicating that one can obstruct justice without completing the termination. Which is pretty much what I said.

Again, please feel free to explain how that is delusional. Or I guess just indicate you don't understand what delusional means.

[ryoder 1,412]

Did Trey Gowdy just grow a spine?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/28/gowdy-mueller-republicans-russia-probe-373866

Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," Rep. Trey Gowdy said he supports Mueller “100 percent.”

“I told my Republican colleagues, ‘Leave him the hell alone,’ and that’s still my advice,” Gowdy said.
...
“This memo is nothing but the distilling, a reducing of thousands of pages of documents provided to us by the [Justice] Department and the bureau," Gowdy said. "There is nothing in this memo that the department is not already aware of.”

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DanG 1]

Looks like the 2018 Midnight Massacre has begun. McCabe just got canned.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Looks like the 2018 Midnight Massacre has begun. McCabe just got canned.

Reports are his name is featured widely in the house intelligent report that's going to come out this week.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,476]

>Looks like the 2018 Midnight Massacre has begun. McCabe just got canned.

Trump is running scared. Look for more firings soon.

[DJL 232]

SkyDekker

You agreed with Rush that my post was delusional.

Now you are arguing the intent is difficult to prove and has to be specific. Clearly indicating that one can obstruct justice without completing the termination. Which is pretty much what I said.

Again, please feel free to explain how that is delusional. Or I guess just indicate you don't understand what delusional means.

I'm not addressing the issue of being delusional. I'm agreeing with Rush that there isn't any teeth to an accusation that Trump ordering someone fired is indictable as obstruction. Trump can yell and cry all he wants about who he wants to fire and in the case of Comey he can even fire that person but it's EXTREMELY difficult to tie the intent to obstruction. Trumps lawyer threatened to quit because in the case of Meuller it becomes very difficult for his lawyer to defend him from obstruction. Still, having that conversation and throwing a tantrum doesn't equate to obstruction. The conversation could very well have gone like this:

Trump: I want this thing to stop, I want my own person in charge of the investigation.

Lawyer: I advise against it.

Trump: No, I'm in charge, cry cry cry, etc etc.

Lawyer: You're to closely associated with being the subject of this investigation and executing this order may cause you to be indicted for obstruction.

Trump: I'm the damn President and you need to make this happen in a way that doesn't put me at risk!

Lawyer: That's impossible, I will resign before I do that in your interest and because of my inability to defend you.

Trump: Ok. Hey, let's go play golf.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jakee 1,280]

rushmc

Reports are his name is featured widely in the house intelligent report that's going to come out this week.

An actual report, or the memo Nunes wrote on his own?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,476]

>An actual report, or the memo Nunes wrote on his own?

It's an actual 100% official report that Nunes wrote on his own. It's absolutely full of facts, but no one can see it because reasons. Why won't democrats release it?

[billvon 2,476]

A blast from the past. RushMC:

>Even Flynn did nothing illegal.
>The sound of the deflation is going to be defining when this dry's up and goes away

This, of course, was before Flynn pled guilty to "willfully and knowingly making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements” about his dealings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

I expect many more such "inconvenient facts" to come out.

[DJL 232]

billvon

>An actual report, or the memo Nunes wrote on his own?

It's an actual 100% official report that Nunes wrote on his own. It's absolutely full of facts, but no one can see it because reasons. Why won't democrats release it?

My political group text thread is asking the exact same thing in the most mustache twisting sort of way.

Anyway here's a writeup from the National Review that the conspiracy theory set can sink their teeth into. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454493/steele-dossier-fbi-trump-should-disclose-warrant-applications

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Looks like the 2018 Midnight Massacre has begun. McCabe just got canned.

Trump is running scared. Look for more firings soon.

You now appear to have multiple alternative universes that you live in...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

billvon

A blast from the past. RushMC:

>Even Flynn did nothing illegal.
>The sound of the deflation is going to be defining when this dry's up and goes away

This, of course, was before Flynn pled guilty to "willfully and knowingly making materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements” about his dealings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

I expect many more such "inconvenient facts" to come out.

The traps of a process crime Bill. Nothing more.

I to expect more inconvenient facts to come out. Only the left is going to be the side that squealing.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wolfriverjoe 1,371]

DJL

Regardless of what you think of Trump's intent, and we all know that it was to hamper the investigation, there's nothing to legally hang your hat on...

Well, yes and no.

Apparently, Trump told a minion to fire Mueller. The minion said he would quit before doing so.

This, all by itself is not 'obstruction of justice.'

Just like the firing of Comey wasn't, all by itself.

BUT...

If Trump intended to hamper, or eliminate altogether, the investigation into Russia's interference with the election and the collusion of the Trump campaign with Russian nationals, then it is obstruction.

Seeing as Trump asked Comey specifically to 'make the investigation go away' and fired him when he wouldn't, that would go a long way towards proving obstruction.

If Trump can be shown to say anything like "I want that investigation stopped. Fire Mueller so that the investigation goes away", then that would go a long way towards proving intent.

One or two instances of this sort of behavior, one or two witnesses testifying that Trump made incriminating statements will not prove intent or obstruction.

However, I have a 'funny feeling' that there will be a lot more than 'one or two.'

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phil1111 943]

Report: Trump called Andrew McCabe’s wife a “loser” in a bizarre call
"Multiple people told NBC News’s Carol E. Lee that Trump called McCabe the day after Comey’s firing; he was reportedly furious that Comey took a government-funded plane back from Los Angeles to Washington, DC, after he was let go. (Comey is said to have learned from TV coverage that he was out of a job.) According to NBC:

Trump demanded to know why Comey was allowed to fly on an FBI plane after he had been fired, these people said. McCabe told the president he hadn’t been asked to authorize Comey’s flight, but if anyone had asked, he would have approved it, three people familiar with the call recounted to NBC News.

This answer apparently didn’t sit well with the president, as according to NBC, he went “silent for a moment” and then laid into McCabe, “suggesting he ask his wife how it feels to be a loser.” The dig was an apparent reference to his wife, Jill McCabe, and her failed Democratic campaign for Virginia state legislature in 2015.

McCabe responded “Okay, sir.” Trump reportedly hung up on him."
https://www.vox.com/2018/1/29/16947842/trump-andrew-mccabe-jill-mccabe

trump creating a new definition of loser, every day.

[billvon 2,476]

>The traps of a process crime Bill. Nothing more.

Flynn lied, intentionally, under oath, to FBI investigators in order to cover up his collusion with the Russian ambassador. He has admitted this in his guilty plea. It is a matter of public record now; denying it just makes you look delusional.

You have reached the point where you are trying to explain away the actions of admitted, and convicted, criminals. Pretty sad. I have no doubt you will be doing that a lot in the coming months. (At least until you give up and switch exclusively to the "but Clinton did it first" defense.)

When Trump was elected, did you ever think you'd get to this point? Trying to defend Trump's national security advisor, who was convicted of lying about his associations with Russia? Well, practice your spinning, because you're going to need it - more are coming.

[billvon 2,476]

>he went “silent for a moment” and then laid into McCabe, “suggesting he ask
>his wife how it feels to be a loser.”

Guy is losing it. Can you imagine what will happen to this country if anything really bad happens, and an intelligent decision has to be made by the president?

When you get to the point where a large percentage of the US hopes that the US military will disregard orders issued during a Trump tantrum, you know the US is in trouble.

[jakee 1,280]

rushmc

The traps of a process crime Bill. Nothing more.

Rush, being questioned by the FBI is not a trap. It's what they have to do when there is reasonable suspicion that crimes may have been committed.The FBI didn't make him lie, he decided to lie to them - knowing full well it was illegal.

Why do you hate law enforcement?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***The traps of a process crime Bill. Nothing more.

Rush, being questioned by the FBI is not a trap. It's what they have to do when there is reasonable suspicion that crimes may have been committed.The FBI didn't make him lie, he decided to lie to them - knowing full well it was illegal.

Why do you hate law enforcement?

You better have a good fucking memory then. Because if you tell him one thing today and something different tomorrow even a little bit they can charge you with lying to the FBI. And it does not have to be under oath.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>The traps of a process crime Bill. Nothing more.

Flynn lied, intentionally, under oath, to FBI investigators in order to cover up his collusion with the Russian ambassador. He has admitted this in his guilty plea. It is a matter of public record now; denying it just makes you look delusional.

You have reached the point where you are trying to explain away the actions of admitted, and convicted, criminals. Pretty sad. I have no doubt you will be doing that a lot in the coming months. (At least until you give up and switch exclusively to the "but Clinton did it first" defense.)

When Trump was elected, did you ever think you'd get to this point? Trying to defend Trump's national security advisor, who was convicted of lying about his associations with Russia? Well, practice your spinning, because you're going to need it - more are coming.

Intentionally lied huh? I guess your mind reader and you know more people are thinking than they do themselves bill. But that's typical! I've seen you spin tactics here many times.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,476]

>Intentionally lied huh? I guess your mind reader

Nope. Just a regular old reader.

He is guilty of intentionally lying to the FBI. If it had been unintentional his lawyer would have gotten him off. Intent is required to prove the crime.

I am sorry this is upsetting you, but them's the facts. You can deny them all you like (and I am sure you will.)

[yoink 321]

rushmc

You better have a good fucking memory then. Because if you tell him one thing today and something different tomorrow even a little bit they can charge you with lying to the FBI.

Well, yes, sort of. But (as usual) you're missing the subtleties.

Telling the FBI different stories necessarily means one of them (at least) is false.

But the FBI isn't a machine. If you told them in one interview that you went to the market and bought beans and toast, then later changed it to beans and potatoes they're not going to charge you with lying to the FBI. But if you said 'I had no connection with the Russians' in a russian-linked crime then said 'actually, I might have done. There were those 3 weekend getaways. And the reacharound from Putin,' THAT'S when they charge you with lying.

[normiss 644]

Or money laundering for Russian mobs.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Intentionally lied huh? I guess your mind reader

Nope. Just a regular old reader.

He is guilty of intentionally lying to the FBI. If it had been unintentional his lawyer would have gotten him off. Intent is required to prove the crime.

I am sorry this is upsetting you, but them's the facts. You can deny them all you like (and I am sure you will.)

Upset? No bill, not upset at all. I'm just amazed by how well you follow the talking points.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

yoink

***

You better have a good fucking memory then. Because if you tell him one thing today and something different tomorrow even a little bit they can charge you with lying to the FBI.

Well, yes, sort of. But (as usual) you're missing the subtleties.

Telling the FBI different stories necessarily means one of them (at least) is false.

But the FBI isn't a machine. If you told them in one interview that you went to the market and bought beans and toast, then later changed it to beans and potatoes they're not going to charge you with lying to the FBI. But if you said 'I had no connection with the Russians' in a russian-linked crime then said 'actually, I might have done. There were those 3 weekend getaways. And the reacharound from Putin,' THAT'S when they charge you with lying.

Well you can only hope that you never put in the situation that you're talking about with some really tried and true lawyers. Because you can change is to of the and they'll call you a liar and charge you. That's the bullshit we're living with

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

It is now being reported that the inspector General's report, not the Nunez report, is a reason McCabe left.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln