What will it take to "win" Monday's debate?

[PhreeZone 15]

What are the expectations on what it will take to win the debate on Monday?

I actually think no matter what Clinton will lose unless there is an epic meltdown from Trump. This is because the expectations that have been laid out for him to this point are so low that as long as he does not openly threaten to start a nuclear war on his first day in office he might be the winner of the debate. The expectations for Clinton are so high due to her previous background that she has to clear a much higher bar. Trump can wonder around topics and spout off about anything close to the topic and he will be OK but if Clinton is either too precise or too vague in any answer it is going to come off as a wrong answer.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Elisha 1]

Good point...but I don't think so.

His base (such that he threatening to start nuclear war) is too small in comparison to $Hillary's and the "undecideds" are not as easily convinced that Trump isn't crazy.

I think to "win" the debate (which Frankly, almost every candidate has been in denial that they might have "lost" a debate), Trump will need to be on his 'A' game, by which I mean good behavior and precise in his talking points (e.g. making sense). I don't see it happening though.

But since I don't have cable, I don't plan to watch anyways nor do I think Trump will rise to the occasion and "win" (the debate or election). Just my $0.02.

[billvon 2,404]

>I actually think no matter what Clinton will lose unless there is an epic meltdown
>from Trump. This is because the expectations that have been laid out for him to
>this point are so low that as long as he does not openly threaten to start a nuclear
>war on his first day in office he might be the winner of the debate.

Agreed. They are held to different standards, and there will be no fact-checking in the debate itself. If Trump simply "looks presidential" and does not call her a cunt, then he wins no matter what he says. If Clinton spends the whole debate laying out her policy plans, she will lose because she will look like she's sick, or she looks too healthy so obviously it's makeup, or she wasn't assertive enough, or she was too assertive, or she wasn't wearing the right skirt or flag pin, or she was too mean to Trump, or not mean enough.

[rehmwa 2]

I am so excited about this debate. Finally, we'll get to hear each candidate:

1 - outline their own policy hopes and intentions so each viewer can just compare their answers without any jabs or digs
2 - of course they won't strawman the other person and argue against false claims, rather they'll stick to their own platform
3 - there won't be any personal insults
4 - I'm sure Hillary won't even mention Donald.....and vice versa
5 - and the moderators,,, giving policy questions without bias or attempts to titillate the audience with leading or emotional twists and turns. AND the lack of bias for sure....

and the crowds inside and outside the building will quietly listen in a thoughtful manner and be so respectful of others with sincere alternate opinions and philosophies



can't wait...

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,404]

Quote

1 - outline their own policy hopes and intentions so each viewer can just compare their answers without any jabs or digs
2 - of course they won't strawman the other person and argue against false claims, rather they'll stick to their own platform
3 - there won't be any personal insults
4 - I'm sure Hillary won't even mention Donald.....and vice versa
5 - and the moderators,,, giving policy questions without bias or attempts to titillate the audience with leading or emotional twists and turns. AND the lack of bias for sure....

If that ever happened (which is unlikely) most of the media outlets the next day would declare it a total failure and instead run clips of famous Trump outbursts and Clinton denials. The NPR wonks would go on and on about the policy comments and the BBC would praise both candidates, but CNN, MSNBC and FOX would lament the lack of excitement, controversy and ratings.

[Channman 2]

billvon

>I actually think no matter what Clinton will lose unless there is an epic meltdown
>from Trump. This is because the expectations that have been laid out for him to
>this point are so low that as long as he does not openly threaten to start a nuclear
>war on his first day in office he might be the winner of the debate.

Agreed. They are held to different standards, and there will be no fact-checking in the debate itself. If Trump simply "looks presidential" and does not call her a cunt, then he wins no matter what he says. If Clinton spends the whole debate laying out her policy plans, she will lose because she will look like she's sick, or she looks too healthy so obviously it's makeup, or she wasn't assertive enough, or she was too assertive, or she wasn't wearing the right skirt or flag pin, or she was too mean to Trump, or not mean enough.

WOW...I suppose some people will need to wear their Baby Panties so they don't wet themselves during the debate. I think one of the ways Trump could lose is if Clinton collapses on the stage and stops breathing and Trump rushes over to give her month to month.

The out cry from the LEFT will be damning...look at that, he is sexually assaulting her, "sexist pig"!!...looked like he was giving her the tongue.

If Clinton begins having a coughing fit and can't stop for several minutes...Lester Holt will be taken to the Wood Shed for not breaking and going to a commercial. Lester will be dealt with much like Matt Lauer who made a potential career suicide blunder by asking Hillary a real question...Damn that BASTARD.

Lester's only hope is to say..."but the rule said No Brakes, was I suppose to brake the rules for her???" YES DAMNIT...there are two different standards, didn't you get the memo?"

[winsor 186]

PhreeZone

What are the expectations on what it will take to win the debate on Monday?

I actually think no matter what Clinton will lose unless there is an epic meltdown from Trump. This is because the expectations that have been laid out for him to this point are so low that as long as he does not openly threaten to start a nuclear war on his first day in office he might be the winner of the debate. The expectations for Clinton are so high due to her previous background that she has to clear a much higher bar. Trump can wonder around topics and spout off about anything close to the topic and he will be OK but if Clinton is either too precise or too vague in any answer it is going to come off as a wrong answer.

A pundit (Buchanan?) noted that all Trump has to do is beat the point spread.

There is nothing she is going to say that will bring around people who have learned to loathe her over the last quarter of a century or more.

On the other hand, if he can come across as plausibly presidential at all, there will be people on the fence who will be less scared of him, and will vote for him in the hope that it will send Hillary back to the shadows.

He will have to work long and hard to earn the same level of hatred as has Hillary, though I suspect he is up to the task.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I am so excited about this debate. Finally, we'll get to hear each candidate:

1 - outline their own policy hopes and intentions so each viewer can just compare their answers without any jabs or digs
2 - of course they won't strawman the other person and argue against false claims, rather they'll stick to their own platform
3 - there won't be any personal insults
4 - I'm sure Hillary won't even mention Donald.....and vice versa
5 - and the moderators,,, giving policy questions without bias or attempts to titillate the audience with leading or emotional twists and turns. AND the lack of bias for sure....

and the crowds inside and outside the building will quietly listen in a thoughtful manner and be so respectful of others with sincere alternate opinions and philosophies



can't wait... SmileSmile

Sounds like you've been ingesting some pretty magical stuff. Can I have some, please?

We are all engines of karma

[kelpdiver 2]

PhreeZone

What are the expectations on what it will take to win the debate on Monday?

The polling towards the end of next week will announce the winner, regardless of what Fox, the WP, NYT, CNN say afterwards (MSNBC lost their right to have a vote).

Clinton needs to avoid the mistake that Gore made in 2000, showing his arrogance and utter contempt in having to debate a man of Bush's caliber. She has the same problem, and needs to avoid another cookies/deplorable type remark.

Trump has to act like a man that doesn't have ADD and a twitter obsession, and show he can talk in complete sentences without making shit up. Stay on target. He got all the votes he can possibly get for being an immature dumbass; they aren't enough to win. He needs to convince undecided or fearful potential voters that he's capable of the job. The nearly equal dislike for Clinton means there are votes out there to get.

If I'm Clinton, I'm trying to bait the Donald into being himself, starting with the Iraq lie.

If I'm Trump, I'm highlighting her history of poor transparency and regard for the rules, somehow without people noticing a similar history.

[billvon 2,404]

>If I'm Clinton, I'm trying to bait the Donald into being himself, starting with the Iraq
>lie.

>If I'm Trump, I'm highlighting her history of poor transparency and regard for the
>rules, somehow without people noticing a similar history.

Good summary. Yeah, in many ways, Clinton's best approach is to just let Trump be himself.

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

Hi kelp,

Quote

dislike for Clinton means there are votes out there to get.

I doubt that I have any more insight/knowledge than you do. However, I do not think that there are very many 'more' votes to get. Some small percentage but IMO not enough to change things; unless a major gaffe occurs during the debates. Like Ford when he said that Poland was not under Soviet domination.

Quote

If I'm Clinton, I'm trying to bait the Donald

And I am thinking that she can.

Monday evening should be interesting,

Jerry Baumchen

[kelpdiver 2]

JerryBaumchen

I doubt that I have any more insight/knowledge than you do. However, I do not think that there are very many 'more' votes to get. Some small percentage but IMO not enough to change things; unless a major gaffe occurs during the debates. Like Ford when he said that Poland was not under Soviet domination.

traditionally, after Labor Day perhaps 10% remain available, though in recent years the electorate has been so polarized towards party lines that it has been closer to 5% that were gettable at all.

But this year we have the two most negatively rated candidates in history, I believe. Clinton, through a combination of personal faults and an aggressive GOP vendetta has struggled to even win the nomination, and only because there was no viable alternative (Sorry, Bernie) this time. Her perm negative rating will always be > 40%. However, she's running against a guy that ~70% see as unqualified to be President. He got the nomination with that 30%, but now he has to win the votes of some women and hispanics (I think we have to concede on the black vote). Many prominent GOP leadership have stated an intent to vote for Clinton, and I'm sure many voters in that party would rather retry in 2020 then take the party damage the Don would be in the White House.

But...if he can present himself as a non bozo, he can get many of those votes back, as well as voters who hate Clinton but prefer her to him.

Remember how Gore lost what should have been a slam dunk in 2000. It wasn't from any key fuckup - he killed himself with a thousand cuts. One of them was the debate.

I think I do have to side with the OP in thinking that Clinton probably can't gain much out of the debate. It is, though, another opportunity, to put the Don to bed. So far she's failed to take advantage of many such opportunities.

[normiss 622]

Re-elect Gore in '04!

[billvon 2,404]

>And I am thinking that she can.

Perhaps. That's about all that will work for her. Just staying on policy won't, nor will pointing out that almost everything Trump says is a lie - because that won't make her "appealing" (as women have to be in our society.)

From NBC's Andrea Mitchell:

=======
ANDREA MITCHELL: [Trump] could go 90 minutes, misstating facts let's say, but looking smooth, being the performer, and she is the studious schoolmarm constantly saying you're wrong about that, that's a lie. It’s not an appealing persona.
=======

[ryoder 1,390]

How do you debate a gasbag who makes no distinction between fact and fiction?

Clinton should have required the debate to have realtime fact-checking.
Otherwise she was a fool to agree to participate.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 622]

He can't make it through 10 minutes of teleprompter without cutting off his own pecker with his foot in his mouth, 90 minutes just might be entertainingly embarrassing.
I'm considering drinking games.

[headoverheels 291]

normiss

I'm considering drinking games.

Probably the best idea. I'll be doing mine without watching the debates.

[turtlespeed 212]

PhreeZone

What are the expectations on what it will take to win the debate on Monday?

I actually think no matter what Clinton will lose unless there is an epic meltdown from Trump. This is because the expectations that have been laid out for him to this point are so low that as long as he does not openly threaten to start a nuclear war on his first day in office he might be the winner of the debate. The expectations for Clinton are so high due to her previous background that she has to clear a much higher bar. Trump can wonder around topics and spout off about anything close to the topic and he will be OK but if Clinton is either too precise or too vague in any answer it is going to come off as a wrong answer.

I am curious to find out what medical ailment will arise.

One "episode" like she has had in the past and its over.

They may know that already and plan on her bowing out that way for medical reasons anyway.

Should be interesting.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jclalor 12]

This whole thing is going to be bizarre, with Mark Cuban and Jennifer flowers sitting in the front row, these are strange days indeed.

[tkhayes 128]

Fox Oreilly Hannity and Rush will all claim Trump won. Trump will claim that Trump won of course because he is all that. "I'm the best debater, I have the greatest debates...no one debates better than me..."

MSNBC, Rachel, CNN, PP and Hillary will claim that she won because she was calm cool collected and stuck to the facts and the debate points.

And I doubt that anyone will change their vote at this point based on a presidential debate. She is still going to win the election by a large margin and Trump is still going to claim that 3700 county election offices in 50 states rigged the election.

I am not watching the debates, not any speeches, as they all just talk and talk and pontificate, and none of it really means anything IMO

[turtlespeed 212]

tkhayes

Fox Oreilly Hannity and Rush will all claim Trump won. Trump will claim that Trump won of course because he is all that. "I'm the best debater, I have the greatest debates...no one debates better than me..."

MSNBC, Rachel, CNN, PP and Hillary will claim that she won because she was calm cool collected and stuck to the facts and the debate points.

And I doubt that anyone will change their vote at this point based on a presidential debate. She is still going to win the election by a large margin and Trump is still going to claim that 3700 county election offices in 50 states rigged the election.

I am not watching the debates, not any speeches, as they all just talk and talk and pontificate, and none of it really means anything IMO

You should.

You should drink a beer every time she goes into bobble head mode.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,634]

jclalor

This whole thing is going to be bizarre, with Mark Cuban and Jennifer flowers sitting in the front row, these are strange days indeed.

It won't be a debate. Debate has a specific meaning, and this will not be consistent with that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,915]

Quote

It won't be a debate. Debate has a specific meaning, and this will not be consistent with that.

I'd call it a Candidate's Confrontation. Not a debate, but a drama. I'll be in America, driving south on US 61 in northern MO about that time. On my way to Guntown, MS. I guess I'll listen, at least for a while. Satellite radio is such a "gift".

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[nolhtairt 0]

jclalor

This whole thing is going to be bizarre, with Mark Cuban and Jennifer flowers sitting in the front row, these are strange days indeed.

I just want to see Hillary's reaction when she sees Gennifer in the front row.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I just want to see Hillary's reaction when she sees Gennifer in the front row.

I realize Trump supports think this is the height of wit, but it is seriously some juvenile, unpresidential behavior.

When President Trump has a press conference with some foreign leader is he going to fly in an embarrassment from that leader past to rile him? WTF?

If he can't debate her on the issues without resorting to this grade school bullshit he can't be President, period.

- Dan G