turtlespeed 212 #26 May 16, 2015 Suslique ************I say we give him Chems to stay alert and awake, and dissect him into as many pieces as there are number of injured and dead. I suspect this is just angry talk, which I understand. This was a horrible crime. But just wondering, would you really support the United States government injecting this guy with chemicals and then cutting off body parts to make him suffer? Should this punishment be codified into law? I wasn't really serious. But I would like to see him subjected to Brittany spears songs at high volume for long periods of time. Now that's brutal. I might prefer dismemberment Purely as a side-issue, I wonder how long it would take to drive someone insane if you confined them in a small area, and played any sort of music at loud volume at them 24/7? Ask Guantanamo management, they know all about that.Re the topic, I don't see a point in wasting taxpayers money on certain monsters. Mass murderers/serial killers, paedophiles, rapists-- they don't change, why release them back to society or keep them in their solitary confinements for decades? I see no point. I am unclear, are you saying they should be put to death?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #27 May 16, 2015 Suslique...I don't see a point in wasting taxpayers money on certain monsters. Mass murderers/serial killers, paedophiles, rapists-- they don't change, why release them back to society or keep them in their solitary confinements for decades? I see no point. Life without parole is significantly cheaper than a death sentence. As is pretty clear from some of the responses, it's far more a "revenge" thing."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #28 May 17, 2015 wolfriverjoe***...I don't see a point in wasting taxpayers money on certain monsters. Mass murderers/serial killers, paedophiles, rapists-- they don't change, why release them back to society or keep them in their solitary confinements for decades? I see no point. Life without parole is significantly cheaper than a death sentence. As is pretty clear from some of the responses, it's far more a "revenge" thing. A revenge in the cases mentioned above should never be underestimated. It is a very important moment for a victim or victims family, it is a psychological closure that they always desperately need. "Let him rot in the prison" doesn't work the same way a DP works since human can adapt to any life conditions, in 20 years he'll get used to solitary confinement, food that someone cooks and brings to him, the fact that he always has clean clothes and other nonsense. I do understand that not everyone supports DP as a punishment and I'm not intending to cause an argument, just expressing my point of view. Turtlespeed, You think that scum of the earth learn their ways and are safe to be sent back to society? 90% of convicted pedophiles go back to prison after committing the same kind of crimes again. Why would anyone want them to be free?? Do you have a family? Do u use that "find a sexual predator" app to see who is potentially capable of atrocities in your neighbourhood? I find the whole thing sick and twisted. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #29 May 17, 2015 Quote Turtlespeed, You think that scum of the earth learn their ways and are safe to be sent back to society? 90% of convicted pedophiles go back to prison after committing the same kind of crimes again. Why would anyone want them to be free?? Do you have a family? Do u use that "find a sexual predator" app to see who is potentially capable of atrocities in your neighbourhood? I find the whole thing sick and twisted. Before your train derails, I only said I was unclear, and asked if you would want the. To receive the death penalty. Take a deep breath. Relax. I don't think a sexual predator should ever be free to victimize another. I also am a vocal proponent for the death penalty. Even if it is more expensive, it is worth it in some or even most cases. I was just trying to clarify your position on the issue. There is no need to be defensive, or aggressive.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #30 May 17, 2015 "We hate killing so much we're gonna kill this cunt"cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #31 May 17, 2015 AndyBoyd *********I say we give him Chems to stay alert and awake, and dissect him into as many pieces as there are number of injured and dead. I suspect this is just angry talk, which I understand. This was a horrible crime. But just wondering, would you really support the United States government injecting this guy with chemicals and then cutting off body parts to make him suffer? Should this punishment be codified into law? I wasn't really serious. But I would like to see him subjected to Brittany spears songs at high volume for long periods of time. Now that's brutal. I might prefer dismemberment Purely as a side-issue, I wonder how long it would take to drive someone insane if you confined them in a small area, and played any sort of music at loud volume at them 24/7? 24 - 36 hours typically, from what I'm told. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #32 May 17, 2015 I have to say that I'm really surprised that the anti-death penalty crowd hasn't really taken up arms in this thread yet. Could it be that Dzhokhar's crimes were that serious? Or is it that in this case we've had a chance to see the victims and what he's done to Boston. Typically, after the murder, you never here about the victim again. I think it was a little different with this case....That said I agree with Doc Holiday in Tombstone. Some people are just looking for revenge for being born and sometimes the most merciful thing you can do is put them down. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #33 May 17, 2015 wmw999Maybe even give him a computer with Internet, but every link is a rickroll. Better yet: Computer with Internet, but make anything he writes (e-mails, forum posts, YouTube comments, Wikipedia edits, etc.) show up to himself as though it posted, but not actually go anywhere so no one else ever sees or responds to anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 May 17, 2015 jgoose71 ************I say we give him Chems to stay alert and awake, and dissect him into as many pieces as there are number of injured and dead. I suspect this is just angry talk, which I understand. This was a horrible crime. But just wondering, would you really support the United States government injecting this guy with chemicals and then cutting off body parts to make him suffer? Should this punishment be codified into law? I wasn't really serious. But I would like to see him subjected to Brittany spears songs at high volume for long periods of time. Now that's brutal. I might prefer dismemberment Purely as a side-issue, I wonder how long it would take to drive someone insane if you confined them in a small area, and played any sort of music at loud volume at them 24/7? 24 - 36 hours typically, from what I'm told. " There's no discharge from the war" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #35 May 17, 2015 jgoose71 ************I say we give him Chems to stay alert and awake, and dissect him into as many pieces as there are number of injured and dead. I suspect this is just angry talk, which I understand. This was a horrible crime. But just wondering, would you really support the United States government injecting this guy with chemicals and then cutting off body parts to make him suffer? Should this punishment be codified into law? I wasn't really serious. But I would like to see him subjected to Brittany spears songs at high volume for long periods of time. Now that's brutal. I might prefer dismemberment Purely as a side-issue, I wonder how long it would take to drive someone insane if you confined them in a small area, and played any sort of music at loud volume at them 24/7? 24 - 36 hours typically, from what I'm told. If I remember correctly, when I played my record player it usually took less than 3 minutes for my dad to go crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #36 May 17, 2015 Suslique A revenge in the cases mentioned above should never be underestimated. It is a very important moment for a victim or victims family, it is a psychological closure that they always desperately need. "Let him rot in the prison" doesn't work the same way a DP works since human can adapt to any life conditions, in 20 years he'll get used to solitary confinement, food that someone cooks and brings to him, the fact that he always has clean clothes and other nonsense. I do understand that not everyone supports DP as a punishment and I'm not intending to cause an argument, just expressing my point of view. I have some real problems with state sponsored vengeance. Vengeance and the hatred that causes it are very destructive. Perfectly understandable, but very destructive. When the state starts doing it, then where does it stop? And yes, I'm perfectly aware that many prosecutors and cops operate on a "get even with the bad guy" mentality. LWOP ensures that the perpetrator will never be free again. Society will be protected, and despite any "adaptability", the knowledge that he will never again be a free man is a pretty strong punishment. Victims Rights is one thing. But granting them 'closure' by allowing them to vent their vengeance is another. Should we allow them to push the button on the "death machine"? Should we allow them to be a part of the firing squad? How about giving them a baseball bat and tying the guy down so they can cave his skull in? Where should it stop?"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37 May 17, 2015 wolfriverjoe*** A revenge in the cases mentioned above should never be underestimated. It is a very important moment for a victim or victims family, it is a psychological closure that they always desperately need. "Let him rot in the prison" doesn't work the same way a DP works since human can adapt to any life conditions, in 20 years he'll get used to solitary confinement, food that someone cooks and brings to him, the fact that he always has clean clothes and other nonsense. I do understand that not everyone supports DP as a punishment and I'm not intending to cause an argument, just expressing my point of view. I have some real problems with state sponsored vengeance. Vengeance and the hatred that causes it are very destructive. Perfectly understandable, but very destructive. When the state starts doing it, then where does it stop? And yes, I'm perfectly aware that many prosecutors and cops operate on a "get even with the bad guy" mentality. LWOP ensures that the perpetrator will never be free again. Society will be protected, and despite any "adaptability", the knowledge that he will never again be a free man is a pretty strong punishment. Victims Rights is one thing. But granting them 'closure' by allowing them to vent their vengeance is another. Should we allow them to push the button on the "death machine"? Should we allow them to be a part of the firing squad? How about giving them a baseball bat and tying the guy down so they can cave his skull in? Where should it stop? The only thing an eye for an eye accomplishes are a lot of blind people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #38 May 17, 2015 jgoose71I have to say that I'm really surprised that the anti-death penalty crowd hasn't really taken up arms in this thread yet. The state shouldn't be in the business of killing. It makes the state no better than the criminal.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suslique 0 #39 May 17, 2015 Amazon****** A revenge in the cases mentioned above should never be underestimated. It is a very important moment for a victim or victims family, it is a psychological closure that they always desperately need. "Let him rot in the prison" doesn't work the same way a DP works since human can adapt to any life conditions, in 20 years he'll get used to solitary confinement, food that someone cooks and brings to him, the fact that he always has clean clothes and other nonsense. I do understand that not everyone supports DP as a punishment and I'm not intending to cause an argument, just expressing my point of view. I have some real problems with state sponsored vengeance. Vengeance and the hatred that causes it are very destructive. Perfectly understandable, but very destructive. When the state starts doing it, then where does it stop? And yes, I'm perfectly aware that many prosecutors and cops operate on a "get even with the bad guy" mentality. LWOP ensures that the perpetrator will never be free again. Society will be protected, and despite any "adaptability", the knowledge that he will never again be a free man is a pretty strong punishment. Victims Rights is one thing. But granting them 'closure' by allowing them to vent their vengeance is another. Should we allow them to push the button on the "death machine"? Should we allow them to be a part of the firing squad? How about giving them a baseball bat and tying the guy down so they can cave his skull in? Where should it stop? The only thing an eye for an eye accomplishes are a lot of blind people. It is a complex issue with lots of important moments there is no doubt about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave.' George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #40 May 17, 2015 The state should not be in the business of creating martyrs, either. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #41 May 17, 2015 DanGThe state should not be in the business of creating martyrs, either. Yup.. Why give him what he wants...... I would like to see him have a long life... buried somewhere in a super-max contemplating being a dumbass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #42 May 17, 2015 Re: state sponsored vengeance. Look at what happens when state sponsored vengeance is being used to soak the rich with taxes. It starts there. That's exactly why the Constitution was amended to permit an income tax that was only tk be used on the very wealthy and only a few percent of their earnings. Look where it has gone. To the point where people suggest that billionaires should pay the same tax rates as the mail room clerks. Vengeance is the initial justification. But when vengeance is the political motivation the vengeance will remain after the subject has been punished. And so vengeance just finds another target. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #43 May 17, 2015 You're pretty weird sometimes, y'know?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #44 May 17, 2015 It's interesting how you label the death penalty as cruel bloodthirsty christian vengeance, yet consider your idea of torment and life-long prison justice as mere punishment.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #45 May 17, 2015 Your mirrors not working in your home? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #46 May 17, 2015 The whole thread is distasteful - and 95% about people's visceral feelings. So you know any response is already flawed from the start Pro DP - we need revenge Anti DP - make him suffer forever closure for the families - they are already victims - it's up to them how they recover, justice isn't about those families, it's about everyone. I'm still looking for the others that don't care if "he" feels or "thinks" about anything: Pro DP - Calmly and dispassionately remove this threat from society by humanely assassinating the threat. Anti DP - Calmly and dispassionately remove this threat from society by humanely imprisoning him for life You see no where in either position should we care one bit about Tsarnaev's experience..... I was aghast at all the news coverage trying to discern if he felt any 'remorse' - this is entirely unimportant. It's about protecting society, not Tsarnaev's. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #47 May 17, 2015 grue"We hate killing so much we're gonna kill this cunt" Its not justice its retribution and personally I don't have a problem with that.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #48 May 17, 2015 rehmwa Anti DP - Calmly and dispassionately remove this threat from society by humanely imprisoning him for life. I've made it pretty clear in other threads that's where my position is. You can judge the civilization of a society by the treatment of their prisoners, IMO.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #49 May 18, 2015 jgoose71I have to say that I'm really surprised that the anti-death penalty crowd hasn't really taken up arms in this thread yet. Could it be that Dzhokhar's crimes were that serious? Or is it that in this case we've had a chance to see the victims and what he's done to Boston. I'm firmly against the death penalty regardless of how horrible the crime was. I am against the DP in this case. I suspect the reason the folks who are against the DP haven't chimed in here is because you have to pick your battles. DP opponents know they will have more success arguing a case like Willingham in Texas than this one. As far as the side-issue Turtle and I raised about loud music as torture, some posters noted that this has been done in Git-mo. I looked into it and, yeah, this has been done. Apparently, they are blasting hard-core death-metal (i.e., Deicide) at these prisoners. I dig that stuff, but too much of that at too loud a volume would drive anyone off their rocker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1d2rzm8w1A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #50 May 18, 2015 DanG The state should not be in the business of creating martyrs, either. This shouldn't even be taken into consideration. 1st, it doesn't matter what we do, the bad guys will always spin what we do to meet their agenda. If we let him live, America is weak, attack! If we execute him, remember the martyr Dzhokhar, Attack! For this reason you shouldn't concern yourself with what the enemy thinks. 2nd, one of the stated goals of terrorism is to influence your enemies behavior. If you start worrying about what your enemy thinks of your actions and you start allowing that to influence your behavior, they have succeeded in one of their goals. Last but not least, what did your parents teach you about peer pressure?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites