Indiana law prompts pizzeria to state they will deny catering to gays/lesbians

[rushmc 18]

Driver1

******The thing is that it's pretty universally ok to hate on Nazis; it's one of the few "everyone does it so it's ok" things out there in America. Used to be ok in the south and some parts of the north to hate on blacks; in other parts, to hate on orientals; WW2 made it just fine to hate on Japanese.

But we're pluralistic enough, and big enough, now, that there is a significant population of nearly all of these groups, or of people who don't think it's ok to hate on them.

So people who define who they are by saying who they aren't, and who then want to legitimize that by hating on those not like them, are kind of fucked.

It's what we get for being a nation of immigrants n the first place.

Wendy P.

Hey Wendy
I was wondering if you seen or read the interview in total?

The girl said they serve anyone who comes into the store
She said it would be wrong not to serve them based on their beleifs
She said that they would not cater a same sex wedign as that is not what they believe

Just wondering if you had seen this

Isn't that what the original news story mentioned? Will serve gays for lunch/dinner in the restaurant but not cater their weddings.

No
She left the service part out
That has since come out

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

normiss

What if we throw an all male topless party and order 200 pizzas?


Why anyone cares what anyone else does with their own genitalia is beyond me.
Waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond my ability to logic that out.

MEH
They dont need your hate money any more

http://www.abc57.com/story/28700443/go-fund-me-account-raises-thousands-for-memories-pizza

They are coming up on $300K!!

When added to the other support sights!!!

I love the USA!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

There are other supports to be seen?
Huh.
I missed that part.

[Channman 2]

> who'll give them extra business for being bigots

Is it possible, that the Gay community might themselves be Bigoted and or Christian phobic...should this behavior be more protected than the other?

Secular Progressives, a few who might visit and post from time to time on DZ.Com might hold or do hold that Christian's are free to live out their faith, vote their faith, take a stand in relation to their faith as long as it can be privately engaging, other wise it should remain socially irrelevant. However this is not a practice they themselves are held to.

The statement, "....,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." seems in this case to be prohibitive.

The reporter had to go out of her way to entrap one women naïve enough to think she was exercising a freedom only to be subjected to Death treats, hate speech from what appears to be from a large group of supposedly outraged individuals who themselves suffer from a different form of Bigotry.

[wmw999 2,122]

When I posted what I did, I had seen that interview. I also had heard the interview with the (very nice and polite) Baptist minister also, who really thinks that business entities and religious entities are one and the same. I don't think that anyone wants a Baptist church to be forced to consecrate their marriage (well, not if they want support). That's seriously against the free practice of religion by a religious institution.

The free practice of religion by an individual has to be balanced against the rights of the people that the individual expects to conform to his or her religious requirements. In the US, in a business setting, those are pretty severely limited, if you're conducting a business that deals with the public. In part because of a fairly shameful use of those types of arguments to discriminate against ethnic and religious minorities in the past.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

what the bitch that interviewed

Didn't you just claim that conservatives don't hate people?

I guess this is where you say you are really a libertarian

[Channman 2]

wmw999

When I posted what I did, I had seen that interview. I also had heard the interview with the (very nice and polite) Baptist minister also, who really thinks that business entities and religious entities are one and the same. I don't think that anyone wants a Baptist church to be forced to consecrate their marriage (well, not if they want support). That's seriously against the free practice of religion by a religious institution.

The free practice of religion by an individual has to be balanced against the rights of the people that the individual expects to conform to his or her religious requirements. In the US, in a business setting, those are pretty severely limited, if you're conducting a business that deals with the public. In part because of a fairly shameful use of those types of arguments to discriminate against ethnic and religious minorities in the past.

Wendy P.

Hey girl...you going to be at the DZ on Friday...I'm flying in to fix my paraglider wing line set. Wanted to post the article which I thought might add to this topic.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/saletan/2014/03/07/gay_marriage_and_religious_freedom_don_t_stereotype_the_christian_wedding.html

[normiss 622]

Apparently a LOT of people simply do not understand how GoFundMe works.



Here's the part a BUNCH of folks are missing:

Lawrence Billy Jones III
This person will receive your donation directly.
All payments are final and cannot be refunded.
Only give to people you know and trust.


It appears he has nothing to do with the pizza business.
But he is quit accomplished with "the business".

[billvon 2,400]

>Is it possible, that the Gay community might themselves be Bigoted and or
>Christian phobic.

Some gays are, some gays aren't - just like every other group out there. However, LGBT groups as a whole are pretty welcoming to everyone, since they know what it's like to be on the other side of the fence.

>The reporter had to go out of her way to entrap one women naïve enough to
>think she was exercising a freedom only to be subjected to Death treats, hate
>speech from what appears to be from a large group of supposedly outraged
>individuals who themselves suffer from a different form of Bigotry.

If you had a store down the street that said "no blacks allowed" would you patronize it?

If you refused to patronize it, would you be a bigot?

[jakee 1,254]

CygnusX-1

You see, you can't be uncertain. Because they are exactly the same thing. On one hand you agree that people shouldn't be forced to put "Happy Kristallnacht anniversary!" on a cake, but then question refusal to put to brides on top of a wedding cake. Or maybe even a better example is if someone wanted to buy a cake saying "Happy Anniversary, Neil and Bob". Does the owner get to refuse to make a cake for Neil and Bob?

It's not exactly the same thing. You don't have to provide the message but you do have to provide the service.

You don't have to sell Neil and Bob a cake that says "Happy Anniversary, Neil and Bob*", you do have to sell Neil and Bob a cake.



* Actually, given the comma I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with that message - it implies the cake is a gift to the couple celebrating the anniversary from Neil and Bob. If it was Neil and Bob's anniversary it would say "Happy Anniversary Neil and Bob" wouldn't it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[grue 1]

CygnusX-1

Quote

I can absolutely understand not putting a certain message on a cake, e.g., if you're a jewish baker and someone wants a cake that says "Happy Kristallnacht anniversary!", or whatever.

***HOWEVER, I'm uncertain...

You see, you can't be uncertain. Because they are exactly the same thing. On one hand you agree that people shouldn't be forced to put "Happy Kristallnacht anniversary!" on a cake, but then question refusal to put to brides on top of a wedding cake. Or maybe even a better example is if someone wanted to buy a cake saying "Happy Anniversary, Neil and Bob". Does the owner get to refuse to make a cake for Neil and Bob?

He should be able to refuse to put ANY message on a cake. My question is, can he refuse ALL business with a customer, even when he's not making a message?

cavete terrae.

[normiss 622]

I'm still not understanding if you're running a business to sell things, why in the world would you refuse to sell things to customers?
How do you know what I do with my tallywhacker?
Why the hell do you care???

[Bolas 5]

wmw999

The thing is that it's pretty universally ok to hate on Nazis; it's one of the few "everyone does it so it's ok" things out there in America. Used to be ok in the south and some parts of the north to hate on blacks; in other parts, to hate on orientals; WW2 made it just fine to hate on Japanese.

But we're pluralistic enough, and big enough, now, that there is a significant population of nearly all of these groups, or of people who don't think it's ok to hate on them.

So people who define who they are by saying who they aren't, and who then want to legitimize that by hating on those not like them, are kind of fucked.

It's what we get for being a nation of immigrants n the first place.

Wendy P.

Nazi, like religion, is a group choice. All those others are race based. DNA based discrimination (race, gender, orientation) is different and should not be tolerated.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,400]

>I'm still not understanding if you're running a business to sell things, why in
>the world would you refuse to sell things to customers?

If you were in the sign business, would you sell "God hates fags" signs to the Westboro Baptists?

I can see why people might refuse to sell something they find distasteful. Which I think is fine - as long as they're not refusing service to an entire class of people (i.e. all Christians.)

[normiss 622]

I'd kindly decline the request to bid.
I'm really too busy to take on another sign right now.

[cvfd1399 0]

I think its their choice not to serve someone.

If this was apple or some clothes store, and you chose to not sell something already premade that was sitting on a shelf that would be wrong.

Cakes, special made items, and special events are put on by artists. Would it be right for the government to force an artist to make a offensive stone sculpture or painting that someone wanted that the artist thought would reflect poorly on him?

If you were a special event organizer and the gathering of the juggalos wanted to use your event hall, should the government be getting in the way of that owner making the decision to accept that customer?

[grue 1]

cvfd1399

=
If you were a special event organizer and the gathering of the juggalos wanted to use your event hall, should the government be getting in the way of that owner making the decision to accept that customer?

Funny you mention that one. I've been vocally against the US government's dealings with the Boy Scouts because of the de facto support for discrimination against homosexuals that such dealings become.

Anyway, that's why I asked about the whole "What about the undecorated cakes that are already made?" thing.

cavete terrae.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Cakes, special made items, and special events are put on by artists. Would it be right for the government to force an artist to make a offensive stone sculpture or painting that someone wanted that the artist thought would reflect poorly on him?

No, but again you're missing the point.

Like, if an Islamic customer wanted a stone sculpture that showed Mohammed slaying infidels, you can decline to make it - but you can't decline to make him any sculpture just because he's Islamic. If you're known for making sculptures of puppies and he wants a sculpture of a puppy then you kinda have to sell him one unless you have a business reason not to (eg. you might genuinely be too busy already).

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

>Cakes, special made items, and special events are put on by artists. Would it
>be right for the government to force an artist to make a offensive stone
>sculpture or painting that someone wanted that the artist thought would
>reflect poorly on him?

Nope. But by the same token, the artist cannot make offensive stone sculptures for his white customers but refuse to make them for his black customers.

[wmw999 2,122]

It strikes me as kind of stupid to tell people exactly why you're not taking their business when it's something like because you don't want to mess with homosexuals, unless you're trying to preach to them. In which case you deserve what you get.

It's not that hard to say "I'm sorry but I'm booked up for that weekend" or "I'm taking vacation for that weekend." It might be a lie, and it might even burn you if someone else wants work that weekend, but dang.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AndyBoyd 0]

I'm not replying to Wendy, just to the last post in the thread.

Indiana is changing the law to make it clear that businesses may not refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation, race, religion, etc.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/religious-freedom-controversy-indiana-legislators-announce-changes-law-n334541

Looks like the nice people who own that pizzeria will have to cater the gay wedding after all.

[Coreeece 2]

AndyBoyd

Looks like the nice people who own that pizzeria will have to cater the gay wedding after all.

Ya, in pizza boxes with bible quotes on them...problem solved.

The gays get their pizza wedding and the Christian's can go home without a guilty conscience...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[wmw999 2,122]

That sounds absolutely perfect to me.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,400]

>Indiana is changing the law to make it clear that businesses may not refuse
>service on the basis of sexual orientation, race, religion, etc.

Good for them! Sounds like a win/win.

[cvfd1399 0]

So as long as I say im not interested in doing your cake I am too tired for such a type of cake today, or I am too busy, or I dont have the proper ingredients were good then?