baronn 111 #201 September 16, 2014 Really? And we are suppose to be happy when we hear, " We're from the Government and we're here to help." There is absolutely NO question that police dept.'s are elevating the amount of aggression they are "legally" allowed. People shooting at cops? Been happening for a while. Cops shooting innocent people, dogs, homes, cars or just about any Fucking thing they want to and we're just suppose to take it. Enough! I'm sick of it! And I'm not the only 1. I don't advocate violence. I train to avoid and as a last resort, end it. Quickly. The worst kind of a Bully is 1 that carries a badge..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #202 September 16, 2014 jakee The primary role of a sheepdog is not to protect the flock from wolves, it is to herd and control the sheep.People are not sheep, and any cop who thinks he's a sheepdog is probably an ego tripping control freak. Not a good person to possess a uniform and a gun. Exactly wrong. The sheepdog is there to protect, they do that by several means. Herding is just what they do when they don't have anything to protect from.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #203 September 16, 2014 baronn Really? And we are suppose to be happy when we hear, " We're from the Government and we're here to help." There is absolutely NO question that police dept.'s are elevating the amount of aggression they are "legally" allowed. People shooting at cops? Been happening for a while. Cops shooting innocent people, dogs, homes, cars or just about any Fucking thing they want to and we're just suppose to take it. Enough! I'm sick of it! And I'm not the only 1. I don't advocate violence. I train to avoid and as a last resort, end it. Quickly. The worst kind of a Bully is 1 that carries a badge..... +1 I think I like you a LOT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #204 September 16, 2014 turtlespeed*** The primary role of a sheepdog is not to protect the flock from wolves, it is to herd and control the sheep.People are not sheep, and any cop who thinks he's a sheepdog is probably an ego tripping control freak. Not a good person to possess a uniform and a gun. Exactly wrong. The sheepdog is there to protect, they do that by several means. Herding is just what they do when they don't have anything to protect from. And what pray tell do you do to a sheepdog who rips out the throat of a sheep?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,147 #205 September 16, 2014 QuoteExactly wrong. The sheepdog is there to protect, they do that by several means. Herding is just what they do when they don't have anything to protect from. then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't any predators? NZ comes to mind. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #206 September 16, 2014 turtlespeed*** The primary role of a sheepdog is not to protect the flock from wolves, it is to herd and control the sheep.People are not sheep, and any cop who thinks he's a sheepdog is probably an ego tripping control freak. Not a good person to possess a uniform and a gun. Exactly wrong. The sheepdog is there to protect, they do that by several means. Herding is just what they do when they don't have anything to protect from. Absolute NONSENSE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #207 September 16, 2014 wmw999QuoteExactly wrong. The sheepdog is there to protect, they do that by several means. Herding is just what they do when they don't have anything to protect from. then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't any predators? NZ comes to mind. Wendy P. Hey!!! We have predators! We have the..... um..... Nope, you are right. All the predators went off to scare Australians.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #208 September 16, 2014 turtlespeedExactly wrong. No, I'm exactly right. (You can tell because they're called sheepdogs not wolfdogs. Or just watch any old episode of One Man And His Dog.) You'll need to figure out what that makes you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #209 September 16, 2014 jakee ***Exactly wrong. No, I'm exactly right. (You can tell because they're called sheepdogs not wolfdogs. Or just watch any old episode of One Man And His Dog.) You'll need to figure out what that makes you. "Ooh she's a lovely bitch" Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #210 September 16, 2014 >then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't >any predators? Some of the most amazing working dogs I have ever seen were border collies trained for herding. Their job every day was to keep the sheep under control, keep them from wandering away (which, according to the handler, was the #1 risk to the sheep) and get them to and from pastures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #211 September 16, 2014 billvon>then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't >any predators? Some of the most amazing working dogs I have ever seen were border collies trained for herding. Their job every day was to keep the sheep under control, keep them from wandering away (which, according to the handler, was the #1 risk to the sheep) and get them to and from pastures. Picture I took of a working sheepdog last December in Patagonia (Argentina). No predators there except humans.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #212 September 17, 2014 wmw999QuoteExactly wrong. The sheepdog is there to protect, they do that by several means. Herding is just what they do when they don't have anything to protect from. then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't any predators? NZ comes to mind. Wendy P. Well are they herding? I'm guessing it is because they are good at their job. And, since there are no predators, as you state, they are doing what I said they do when there are no predators. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #213 September 17, 2014 These are border collies and they are bred and trained to be herd dogs. I was fortunate to be photographing a rodeo from within the arena when a Border Collie demonstration of sheep herding was given. I stood stock still as the collies herded the sheep around me and actually had them herded in a circle with me in the middle. Fascinating! However, the Great Pyrenees are different. As pups they are put with the flock and raised as members of the flock. Their primary purpose was (and still is in certain areas) to protect the flock. I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #214 September 17, 2014 Best thread digression so far this week!Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #215 September 17, 2014 Stumpy Best thread digression so far this week! Yep. I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #216 September 17, 2014 >Well are they herding? I'm guessing it is because they are good at their job. >And, since there are no predators, as you state, they are doing what I said they >do when there are no predators. You said they are there primarily to protect, when in fact they are there primarily to herd. And to get back to the topic, the problem many people have with police is that they have decided that they ARE the sheepdogs - and that their primary job is to herd the clueless sheep, rather than protect them. "Us" vs "them" with "them" being a bunch of people clueless enough that they don't even know they need to be herded - and foolishly don't understand the need for military weapons, armored personnel carriers, SWAT team raids of poker games etc. We see it now with cops talking down to the general public. telling them they just don't get it, they don't understand the threats that cops face every day, how the world is so much more dangerous. That's a problem that will have to be solved; hopefully the solution will not involve too much pain on either side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baronn 111 #217 September 17, 2014 A detective contacted me today about a theft of someone's gear (my name was on the data card) and the conversation turned to police aggression. He agreed that its increased and the existence of a few bad apples. I mentioned the incident in Phoenix where the police shot and killed a mentally disturbed woman (56) who had threatened them with a hammer. No taser, no attempt to disarm just pulled a gun and shot her. Seemed cowardly IMO. He agreed with the Cops. Stating, "I'm not gonna put myself at risk to get hurt." My question is, "Why are you a Cop?" Another Bully with a Badge... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,141 #218 September 17, 2014 kallend***>then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't >any predators? Some of the most amazing working dogs I have ever seen were border collies trained for herding. Their job every day was to keep the sheep under control, keep them from wandering away (which, according to the handler, was the #1 risk to the sheep) and get them to and from pastures. Picture I took of a working sheepdog last December in Patagonia (Argentina). No predators there except humans. They used to show herding competitions on the BBC. Always enjoyed watching that as a kid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #219 September 17, 2014 billvon the problem many people have with police is that they have decided that they ARE the sheepdogs - and that their primary job is to herd the clueless sheep, rather than protect them. "move along, move along" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #220 September 17, 2014 SkyDekker******>then why do farmers still use sheepdogs even in places where there aren't >any predators? Some of the most amazing working dogs I have ever seen were border collies trained for herding. Their job every day was to keep the sheep under control, keep them from wandering away (which, according to the handler, was the #1 risk to the sheep) and get them to and from pastures. Picture I took of a working sheepdog last December in Patagonia (Argentina). No predators there except humans. They used to show herding competitions on the BBC. Always enjoyed watching that as a kid. "One Man and his Dog". Great window into british country life.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #221 September 17, 2014 QuoteA detective contacted me today about a theft of someone's gear (my name was on the data card) and the conversation turned to police aggression. He agreed that its increased and the existence of a few bad apples. I mentioned the incident in Phoenix where the police shot and killed a mentally disturbed woman (56) who had threatened them with a hammer. No taser, no attempt to disarm just pulled a gun and shot her. Seemed cowardly IMO. He agreed with the Cops. Stating, "I'm not gonna put myself at risk to get hurt." My question is, "Why are you a Cop?" Another Bully with a Badge... Contrary to what you, or others want to believe, we are not punching bags, spittoons, range targets, etc. If you bring a weapon to a fight, a good ending is not in sight. You ask one loaded question and make a judgement, on a situation from knowledge you have from media reports. I will agree the detective made a mistake, it was playing your game. A simple "I wasn't there, neither were you" would have been appropriate. You don't know if a taser was available, or if it's deployments was possible. If a taser was deployed, many would say " I can't believe they tased a 56 year old woman." Either way it's a sad ending, look up Law Enforcement CIT training, it could have made a difference, but again, I wasn't there, neither were you. This same "bully with a badge" would have absolutely no problem running into a building where shots are being fired, or into a school where your kid is. I challenge you to listen to the radio tapes of Aurora Colorado or Sandy Hook. The Boston Marathon bombing is another example, watch what happens when the bombs explode, the cops and military guys (along with a couple citizens) ran into that situation without hesitation. I've said it on this thread once and I'll say it again. Those who expect me to get hurt, just for the sake of getting hurt, have neither the demeanor or fortitude to do this job. I've been in the middle of hundreds of tense situations, most turned out good, some bad, some ugly. I've been hospitalized several times with injuries, this ain't easy, sometimes it ain't fun, and it certainly sometimes ain't pretty. A highly trained pilot stalls an airliner over the ocean and kills hundreds, a doctor misses something or a hospital makes a mistake. Do people condemn the entire profession? No. Good people make mistakes, good people sometimes do bad or dumb things, good people have bad days. There are losers and dipshits in every profession, ours just happen to garner more media attention. Sometimes even if they are right and did nothing wrong. On the flip side, I'm debating with a bunch of people who are not risk averse. Not everyone sees risk the same as skydivers, remember that. If it was up to me, every new recruit would have to do at least a tandem, to see how they react when betting the farm while taking a risk. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #222 September 17, 2014 QuoteContrary to what you, or others want to believe, we are not punching bags, spittoons, range targets, etc. Neither are we. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #223 September 18, 2014 ***Neither are we. *** The answer to that is fairly simple, don't fight, pull/use weapons on the police and you are good. If you do decide to do any of the above, you do so at your own peril. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #224 September 18, 2014 QuoteThe answer to that is fairly simple, don't fight, pull/use weapons on the police and you are good. Really? Cops never abuse people who don't fight, huh? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #225 September 18, 2014 Wow. The last cop that put this message out on the internet was fired. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
