"Militarization" of the police

[normiss 622]

You should try accurate examples.

I'll not raise hell when they kill us again then. I wouldn't want you getting your knickers in a twist over the death of an innocent person. For some odd reason, that actually pisses me off. It gets worse when we as a society accept it. Some even celebrate it.

It's odd to me that getting upset and making it known due to cops murdering people and treating us ALL like armed enemy, and I'm the bad guy?

Fucking internets.

[billvon 2,400]

>and if everyone treats all cops like bad cops......

. . . then THEY get treated accordingly.

The problem is getting worse, and it's being caused by feedback on both sides. Every time there is another unjustified shooting by a cop, every time a guy handcuffed in the back of a cop car somehow "commits suicide" - people trust cops less. And that leads to people treating cops as if they are the killers that the media makes them out to be. And that leads cops to become more aggressive.

The latest trend of the militarization of the police (SWAT teams used to break up poker games and raid bars with underage drinkers) is just hastening that process. It's a mistake and will cause police far more problems than it solves.

Sure, all cops want to be able to "go home to their families." But if that desire is expressed with greater aggression, greater reliance on military tactics and shows of overwhelming force, and less respect for the rights of people, it will have the opposite effect.

Charles Dinwiddie died because his SWAT team performed a no-knock raid on a middle aged couple, and the homeowner fired on what he saw as intruders - silent men in black breaking a window and crawling in. And sadly, as cops perform more and more tactical no-knock warrants, and get more of a reputation for killing people while doing so, such shootings will become more common. And that will lead to more cops not "going home to their families."

[skycop 0]

Quote

The latest trend of the militarization of the police (SWAT teams used to break up poker games and raid bars with underage drinkers) is just hastening that process. It's a mistake and will cause police far more problems than it solves.

Sure, all cops want to be able to "go home to their families." But if that desire is expressed with greater aggression, greater reliance on military tactics and shows of overwhelming force, and less respect for the rights of people, it will have the opposite effect.

The "trend" is manufactured and hyped by the media and guys like Radley Balko.

The police made mistakes in the response to Ferguson, no doubt. But as I've said many times, the old way of stopping a riot was getting a helmet, a shield, a really large oak stick then physically moving a crowd. That is very messy business.

The "militarized" response used LRAD's, armored vehicles (mainly to store gear in), and gas, less lethal projectiles, and pyrotechnics. These items create distance between "protestors" (rioters) and LE. When LE backed off, the violence escalated, then the military had to be brought in, a bit ironic huh?

In all the coverage there was not one MRAP I saw, but yet this was about the 1033 program.

The picture attached was in the New York Times, under the heading "National Guard leaves Ferguson". Does anyone see what is directly behind the guardsmen?

I'll give you a clue, a surplus OH-6A helicopter that St. Louis County has had for 15 yrs, it's not painted scary enough to make headlines I guess.

That is the slant of the coverage, many in the media don't do their homework, plus mundane facts don't sell newspapers and ad space.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 622]

Why can I still smell us vs. them in your responses?


I know, I know! We just don't understand.
Neither do you.

We're both proving that here.

[billvon 2,400]

>>The latest trend of the militarization of the police (SWAT teams used to break
>>up poker games and raid bars with underage drinkers) is just hastening that
>>process.

>The "trend" is manufactured and hyped by the media and guys like Radley Balko.

It is certainly no "hype" that the police are using more SWAT teams (which didn't even exist before 1964) for poker games and underage drinking, conducting more "no-knock" searches and training for rapid overwhelming responses to things like school shootings. You yourself made the case for why this was important, listing the "major changes that require more 'military' type tactics." You can't simultaneously defend the need for more militarized police response and claim it doesn't exist.

[chutem 0]

Until the general public believes that good cops will "rat out" the bad cops and that there is some kind of active effort to get rid of the bad cops any increase in militarization may not be received well.

[skycop 0]

Not anywhere to the extent the hype would lead you believe.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

Quote

Why can I still smell us vs. them in your responses?

I don't know, why can you?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Amazon 7]

skycop

Not anywhere to the extent the hype would lead you believe.

Then those of you on that other side of the blue line are not listening.

Keep it up and the bad dogs over there on that side will need to be spayed and neutered to keep them in line, instead of being such rabid sheepdogs who are killing the sheep.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[skycop 0]

I hadn't posted here in years, but you're still the same.

If you have anything substantive to bring to the discussion please, feel free.

As of yet, nope, nada, zip..........

X2

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

[Amazon 7]

skycop

I hadn't posted here in years, but you're still the same.

If you have anything substantive to bring to the discussion please, feel free.

As of yet, nope, nada, zip..........

X2

I tried... but SOME People refuse to listen to reason... I wonder why that might be.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

******

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

Why would you say that?

I did a search for most dangerous neighborhoods . . . is google racist now?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

*********

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

Why would you say that?

I did a search for most dangerous neighborhoods . . . is google racist now?

Go read the articles.. and see if your question finds the scary answers you are after.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

************

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

Why would you say that?

I did a search for most dangerous neighborhoods . . . is google racist now?

Go read the articles.. and see if your question finds the scary answers you are after.

What articles? I asked for data and fact. Articles are opinion. Is that where you get all your information? Articles?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***************

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

Why would you say that?

I did a search for most dangerous neighborhoods . . . is google racist now?

Go read the articles.. and see if your question finds the scary answers you are after.

What articles? I asked for data and fact. Articles are opinion. Is that where you get all your information? Articles?

You did the search.... I am sure your google foo brought back plenty of links for you to follow. Were any of them racist sites??? why not run along and look see and get back to us since it seems of great import to you.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

******************

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

Why would you say that?

I did a search for most dangerous neighborhoods . . . is google racist now?

Go read the articles.. and see if your question finds the scary answers you are after.

What articles? I asked for data and fact. Articles are opinion. Is that where you get all your information? Articles?

You did the search.... I am sure your google foo brought back plenty of links for you to follow. Were any of them racist sites??? why not run along and look see and get back to us since it seems of great import to you.

Yes, because a RealEstate site is just that.

Open mouth instet foot Amazon.

Oh and here is a report from MSN money . . .

Quote

Patterns in the violence
What comes to mind when you picture America's most violent neighborhood? A high-rise tenement building, a Cabrini-Green-style slum rife with drug dealers and thugs? A new study by NeighborhoodScout.com shows that's not the case at all.

In 2013, the country's most violent neighborhoods generally contain single-family homes or small apartment units. Many buildings are abandoned. The residents are poor, and often in single-parent households.

It was a pattern that came up repeatedly when NeighborhoodScout, a real-estate neighborhood search website, decided to survey the 25 most dangerous neighborhoods in America. Using dozens of computer models, the team behind NeighborhoodScout analyzed FBI data from 17,000 local law enforcement agencies to find the specific neighborhoods in America with the highest predicted rates of violent crime.

They say all real estate is local, and NeighborhoodScout drilled down deep into cities and towns to find the specific census tract areas -- sometimes just a scattering of blocks -- that had the highest rates of homicide, forcible rape, armed robbery and aggravated assault.

The results will surprise you. And they can be important to follow, because your home is an investment -- perhaps the biggest one your family will ever make. A crime surge, even a few miles away across town, could hurt the value of that nest egg you've so carefully tended to.

Curiously, New York, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and other large cities are missing from NeighorhoodScout's list. In fact, the entire western half of the country doesn't show up at all. But neighborhoods in seemingly benign Tulsa, Okla., and Spartanburg, S.C., make an appearance.

The lesson here is not to stereotype a whole city, says Andrew Schiller of NeighborhoodScout. "There is more variation in crime within most cities than between cities," he tells MSN Money. "The picture of the most violent neighborhoods in America is a changing one." NeighborhoodScout asked us to link to its disclaimer here.

Read on to see the 25 most dangerous neighborhoods in America.

Bet you won't say its biased . . .

Only a true race baiter can find racism where none exists.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[cvfd1399 0]

Just ignore him, I swear to god the people that run this site pay him and a few others to run the post count up and get more ad revenue....

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

*********************

Fortunately most cops I know don't have that problem. They mostly still get home safe.

Have you ever met a cop that patrols the Little Cuba? Overtown? Winchester Ave./60th St in Chicago? Detroit at Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.? State St./Garfield Blvd. in Chicago? Or maybe Cincinnati, Ohio Central Pky./Liberty St.
where you have stats like "Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94" and " Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

walk that beat with the cops you know, for a month, and then come back and let us know how that went.

Gee.. that sounds a lot like a scary brown and black people post Clint.. was that your intent???

Why would you say that?

I did a search for most dangerous neighborhoods . . . is google racist now?

Go read the articles.. and see if your question finds the scary answers you are after.

What articles? I asked for data and fact. Articles are opinion. Is that where you get all your information? Articles?

You did the search.... I am sure your google foo brought back plenty of links for you to follow. Were any of them racist sites??? why not run along and look see and get back to us since it seems of great import to you.

Yes, because a RealEstate site is just that.

Open mouth instet foot Amazon.

Oh and here is a report from MSN money . . .

Quote

Patterns in the violence
What comes to mind when you picture America's most violent neighborhood? A high-rise tenement building, a Cabrini-Green-style slum rife with drug dealers and thugs? A new study by NeighborhoodScout.com shows that's not the case at all.

In 2013, the country's most violent neighborhoods generally contain single-family homes or small apartment units. Many buildings are abandoned. The residents are poor, and often in single-parent households.

It was a pattern that came up repeatedly when NeighborhoodScout, a real-estate neighborhood search website, decided to survey the 25 most dangerous neighborhoods in America. Using dozens of computer models, the team behind NeighborhoodScout analyzed FBI data from 17,000 local law enforcement agencies to find the specific neighborhoods in America with the highest predicted rates of violent crime.

They say all real estate is local, and NeighborhoodScout drilled down deep into cities and towns to find the specific census tract areas -- sometimes just a scattering of blocks -- that had the highest rates of homicide, forcible rape, armed robbery and aggravated assault.

The results will surprise you. And they can be important to follow, because your home is an investment -- perhaps the biggest one your family will ever make. A crime surge, even a few miles away across town, could hurt the value of that nest egg you've so carefully tended to.

Curiously, New York, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and other large cities are missing from NeighorhoodScout's list. In fact, the entire western half of the country doesn't show up at all. But neighborhoods in seemingly benign Tulsa, Okla., and Spartanburg, S.C., make an appearance.

The lesson here is not to stereotype a whole city, says Andrew Schiller of NeighborhoodScout. "There is more variation in crime within most cities than between cities," he tells MSN Money. "The picture of the most violent neighborhoods in America is a changing one." NeighborhoodScout asked us to link to its disclaimer here.

Read on to see the 25 most dangerous neighborhoods in America.

Bet you won't say its biased . . .

Only a true race baiter can find racism where none exists.

So you choose to agree with those worst neighborhoods.. you are the one that posted it.. and WHAT pray tell is the common factor.....HMMMMMMMM.. since you believe that is why they are bad neighborhoods.

[normiss 622]

Ads?
There are ads here???

[Boomerdog 0]

I don't think anyone doubts the verity of the facts you present along with the dedication and committment to doing what is right and in a proper professional manner. And I will agree that there are more cops out there committed to and performing in the same manner you espouse.

But numbers when applied to context can be misleading. Let me give you a number; one.

It took ONE shot at Lexington and Concord to change the dynamic of 13 colonies against the "Mother Country." We live with that action and the ensuing results today even as I write this post.

It took ONE shot on Fort Sumpter in April of 1861 to plunge this country into killing 650,000 of its own. We live with that action and the ensuing results today.

It took ONE nuclear strike on Japan to change the world and bring us to the brink and realization that we can by our own devices and misguided desires, destroy the very world of which we live.

999 matches in a box of 1000 may be too wet to achieve successful ignition but if the reamaining ONE is dry enough, it'll start a large forest fire.

To use the baseball metaphor, "It only takes ONE."

You admit to being away from these boards for some time. Stay around here long enough and you see who aggrees and disagrees with who. There are many here of which I have profound disagreements on many issues and likewise. Yet, on this issue, we are in general agreement that there is a problem with how law enforcement enforces as well exerts oversight on itself in such enforcement procedures and actions. And it has been noted by one I usually disagree with here that you are still taking an "us vs them" mentality. I agree with that individual's assessment.

The number of "isolated incidents" you cite means NOTHING to a surviving relative when an innocent family member is shot dead by a botched SWAT raid as a result of bad intelligence that was not followed up to further validate and a wrong address is raided. Even ONE is too many. It is tough enough to accept the murder committed by an armed criminal. But when a cop acts in an excessive manner it is fundamentally different simply because the protector's role has changed and neither you nor I are going to change that public mindset.

I distinctly get the sense that no one here wants to see a cop killed or badly injured on duty. We too want cops to go home to their families safely. But the mentality of doing what it takes to go home safely does not mean violating the laws as specified by the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments of the US Constitution which last time I checked is the supreme law of the land.

Ferguson is a mixture of a lot of bad from both sides. So was what went out in Las Vegas a few months ago. Agree or disagree as many do here about Cliven Bundy's ideas and motives but one thing rang true, people rightly or wrongly got fed up with law enforcement (in this case federal LEO's) coming in with what they believed was too heavy a hand. For the first time in my 59 years, I saw the chilling sight of several citizens training sniper rifles on the federales. For the first time, I saw a bunch of people come in and outnumber the LEO's and those people were well armed. Agree or disagree with their motives is for another board of discussion. The fact is, IT HAPPENED. It would have taken one shot to cause a bloodbath and potentially, lead a country down a path no reasonable person wants but once the maelstrom starts it's hard to stop.

History is a hobby for me. There's a lot I know and of course a lot I don't know. But I know this, the American people as a whole are longsuffering and that's the good news. The bad news is that the threshold of their longsuffering varies from issue to issue and is not precisely known. When that threshold is exceeded, the people respond and repsond in manners that the object of their collective ire will not like.

Like a criminal prosecution, the burden of proof rests with the state. Accordingly, the burden of correcting some of this crap we are seeing from your small numbers of rogue LEO's rests with the state. The people are giving you time to correct these issues. All the mounds of data you cite is not going to take away the basic fact that there's a problem out there in LEO land that adversely impacts the citizenry. Solve the problem or someone else is going to solve the problem for you in a manner and with terms you're not going to like; but as Alexander Hamilton once told a foreign emissary, "Here sir, the people rule!"

[skycop 0]

Quote

So was what went out in Las Vegas a few months ago. Agree or disagree as many do here about Cliven Bundy's ideas and motives but one thing rang true, people rightly or wrongly got fed up with law enforcement (in this case federal LEO's) coming in with what they believed was too heavy a hand. For the first time in my 59 years, I saw the chilling sight of several citizens training sniper rifles on the federales. For the first time, I saw a bunch of people come in and outnumber the LEO's and those people were well armed. Agree or disagree with their motives is for another board of discussion. The fact is, IT HAPPENED.

I agree, and have said so, I'm not too found of the feds nor are most local guys.

Look at the initial article I posted, it explains my out look in the 1033 program, MRAPS, and military equipment. so does the follow on article by the same guy..........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Anvilbrother 0]

This is why cops have to be alert and ready for anything on duty.

Quote

Pennsylvania State Police are searching for a suspect or suspects after two troopers were ambushed outside a police barracks in Blooming Grove, Pa

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/13/pennsylvania-police-barracks-shooting/15574705/

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[normiss 622]

That, and shooting kids in the face when they have their hands up apparently.