"Militarization" of the police

[skycop 0]

Quote

By the way, your use of the term "a small, but very vocal group we never really "had" in the first place" reeks of "us vs. them". Maybe that's not how you intended it, but that's how it comes across.

These folks come from the far sides of the spectrum, and I'm good with that.

"Smacks of us vs. them" spoken from the Ivory Tower. Try rolling around in the street with someone, when the fight starts, it is us vs. them.

This isn't a game, two LEO's have been shot and killed this week.

Just watch and see if the police back off of being proactive, crime rates will rise. That same vocal group will blame whom for that...............the police. Don't ya love the irony?

There were riots in Cincinnati in 2001, the police backed off and the murder rate when up by almost a 3rd.

Those vocal groups are the 1st to point out the low crime rates we currently enjoy, so it can't possibly be as dangerous as they are led to beleive. Who in the heck is mainly responsible for that, well hell, sure couldn't be LEO's, that would smack of common sense...........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Stumpy 256]

You know what - you are right. The police are blameless, and its all a massive conspiracy against them.


Good luck with that.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[BIGUN 1,050]

My only two cents on this matter is; I've observed friends who were cops go from standard police issue uniforms to tactical BDU uniforms even as traffic cops and it changes their entire demeanor. There is a mentality that goes with the uniform from that of Officer to that of combatant. FFS... I was on the lake this year and even the Lake Patrol has been issued brown BDU's. They went from blue shorts and white shirts to BDU's... on the lake?!?!?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[skycop 0]

That's an interesting point,
Double knit polyester is less threatening evidently. I wore it for 25yrs, it sucked, it was hot in the summer, did not keep you warm in the winter, would get shiny if you washed and dried it at home, one small scrape and the material is ruined.

The "BDU" pant you are referring to is cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, is wash and wear, lasts longer, and (gasp) even has a small pocket for your cell phone. Our wick material polo shirts are very intimidating as well............;)

I'll agree with you to a certain extent on tactical vests, we just recently got the option to wear one. A fully loaded duty belt can weigh upwards of 20lbs. I started having some chronic back issues after wearing one for so many years and some other medical related issues. Wearing the outer vest solved those problems, over half the equipment I used to carry on my belt now goes on the vest. It took the majority of weight off my belt. I get comments or questions from people, once I explain most seem to understand. Believe it or not, those things are cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than wearing a vest under your shirt.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 620]

"This isn't a game, two LEO's have been shot and killed this week. "

US vs. THEM

You guys are winning.

[BIGUN 1,050]

skycop

I'll agree with you to a certain extent on tactical vests, we just recently got the option to wear one. A fully loaded duty belt can weigh upwards of 20lbs. I started having some chronic back issues after wearing one for so many years and some other medical related issues. Wearing the outer vest solved those problems, over half the equipment I used to carry on my belt now goes on the vest. It took the majority of weight off my belt. I get comments or questions from people, once I explain most seem to understand. Believe it or not, those things are cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than wearing a vest under your shirt.

You know... I can't take this away from you. Those cop friends of mine were friends for my 20 years of military service while they were community service. Back in the day we had LBE and they were running with one hand trying to keep that friggin belt from pulling their pants down - I never understood that and often asked why they wouldn't adopt some form of LBE. Course, their departments wouldn't allow it.

And, I understand your point on wearing the BDU's as lighter in the summer and able to put more underneath in the winter.

But, again, it was interesting to observe a complete change in their behavior. I even lost a couple of friends over it because they just turned into friggin assholes when they put on the BDUs. No longer were they about service; they were about posturing, positioning and intimidation.

Having said that; they may have been at that point in their careers where they just got tired of dealing with the shitheads in society. There seems to be a point in a cop's career (around the 15 year mark) where they just get tired of one more domestic dispute and take it over the top.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[billvon 2,384]

>"Smacks of us vs. them" spoken from the Ivory Tower.
So you claim it's not us vs. them - by claiming that the person you are replying to is a "them."

>This isn't a game, two LEO's have been shot and killed this week.

================
Homeowner Mistakenly Shot, Killed by Deputy in Pico Rivera Standoff
Posted 7:35 AM, August 2, 2014, by KTLA 5

An innocent homeowner was mistakenly killed and a parolee was fatally shot by deputies early Saturday after an hours-long hostage situation and standoff in Pico Rivera, authorities said.

The incident began around 4:30 p.m. on Friday when deputies were searching for 24-year-old Cedric Ramirez, who was wanted on two felony warrants, a news release from the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department said.

. . .

Deputies were able to open the front door and started escorting multiple people from the home. However, as they were being taken out, Ramirez allegedly shot a second time at deputies, who then returned fire and retreated to the front yard, according to Corino.

“Within seconds of their exit, an adult male suddenly appeared in the doorway,” Chief Bill McSweeney, of the Sheriff’s Department’s Detective Division, said at a Saturday evening news conference.

“Believing the man was Ramirez, a deputy fired two shots at that man,” who then dropped to the ground, unconscious, McSweeney said. He was later recognized to be 54-year-old Frank Mendoza, a resident of the home.

Preliminary evidence indicated that the two shots “likely” struck Mendoza, according to McSweeney. Deputies were able to rescue him and get him to the paramedics, but he later died of his injuries.
==================
Audio: Police Staff Directed to Back Off Pursuit

Reported by USAToday
November 5, 2013

DES MOINES, Iowa — An Ames, Iowa, police staffer twice suggested that an officer back off his pursuit of a 19-year-old man who allegedly stole a truck Monday from a work site where he and his father were working, according to dispatcher audio obtained by The Des Moines Register.

The officer, identified as Adam McPherson, continued his pursuit of Tyler Comstock onto the Iowa State University campus, according to the audio.

Minutes later, the truck Comstock was driving stopped, and officers commanded him to shut off the vehicle. Instead, Comstock revved the engine, and McPherson fired six rounds at the truck, police said.

Comstock died from two gunshot wounds, one each to his head and chest, according to the Iowa State Medical Examiner’s office.
=======================
Jack Lamar Roberson Shot Dead By Police In Georgia After 911 Call For Medical Emergency, Family Says

Posted: 10/08/2013
Huffington Post

Police in Georgia say they had no choice but to shoot a man who was, according to his family, experiencing an adverse reaction to medication he took for his diabetes.

The family of Jack Lamar Roberson claims they called 911 on Friday for medical help and that the 43-year-old was not a threat at all. Police say Roberson was armed.

"They just came in and shot him," Alcia Herron, Roberson's fiance, told First Coast News. "He didn't say nothing, the police didn't say nothing, anything, it was like a silent movie. You couldn't hear anything, all you could hear were the gun shots go off and I seen them going into his body and he just fell down."

Waycross Police Chief Tony Tanner said Monday that authorities responded to a suicide threat and that Roberson approached them “aggressively armed with two items used as weapons," according to the Florida Times-Union.

The chief refused to specify what those weapons were, according to the Associated Press.

Roberson's mother insisted that her son was unarmed and that there were "no weapons in this house whatsoever."
=================

[riggerrob 558]

This was the first summer the Vancouver Police patrolled (clothing optional) Wreck Beach full time.
I wonder how badly a constable had to lip-off the duty Sargent to get assigned to walk down the 500 steps and patrol a beach in long, dark pants and an armoured vest.

Note: the only access is via a stairway.

[riggerrob 558]

This reminds me of a city council meeting last year.
Citizens were upset because one drug dealer shot another drug dealer in the parking lot between the hockey rink and city hall. It was the first murder in (sleepy suburb) Port Moody in about 15 years.
Large numbers of panicked soccer moms demanded that (the tiny municipal) police do more to protect them.
I challenged the soccer moms to provide more "eyes on the street" (quoting Jane Jacobs).
The last thing a drug dealer wants is a nosey old lady gossiping about his strange visitors.

On a personal note, I do not fear getting shot in Vancouver because the majority of murders are between drug dealers and I quit doing recreational drugs many years ago.

[Boomerdog 0]

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This isn't a game, two LEO's have been shot and killed this week.

You're absolutely right, THIS ISN'T A GAME. But given the tint and tone of your writing, this subject, I get the very clear sense that you think you're the only one around here who has clear understanding of this point. If this is the case, it smacks of hubris of the highest order.

You can tell me I'm wrong all you want, but somehow, I don't think so.

Yup and sadly, two cops dead and the innocent what are they? Acceptable collateral damage?

[Boomerdog 0]

Your observation is I think a mixture of subjectivity and objectivitiy i.e. there's a ring of truth to it mixed with some legitimate speculation. The following URL sheds a littel more light on your point.

http://triblive.com/aande/theatrearts/5527912-74/syas-costume-griff#axzz3Cp7Q7tT3

The point the article makes is that for some actors, they do not feel "in character" until they are in full makeup and costume.

[BIGUN 1,050]

We're sorry, but the link you requested is not available. You can use the search link below or try one of the section links below.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Boomerdog 0]

I'll do a follow up. My apologies.

[skycop 0]

This is satirical, but most of it rings true.......:)


FASCINATION STAGE - 1st thru 4th year of Law Enforcement.

For most officers, this is their first time outside of the middle class bubble. They have never seen a dead body, never seen life-threatening injuries, never dealt with a family disturbance, never witnessed the squaller some people call "living life", and never really understood the phrase "Man's Inhumanity To Man" until now. Everything is new to them. You can ID them by the amount of fancy new equipment they carry...a ten BILLION candlelight power flashlight, "state-of-the-art" holster, pens that write in the rain, a ballistic vest rated to stop Tomahawk missiles, and an equipment bag large enough to house a squad of Marines. They love it, showing up early for their shift. They work way past the end of their shift without even considering an OT slip. They believe rank within the department is based only on ability and those in the upper ranks got there by knowledge and skill in police work only. They believe the Department runs with the same attention to detail and efficiency as Joe Friday's Dragnet TV show....everyone is dedicated & committed, everyone is competent, everyone is on the same page and working towards the same high-minded goals. When they finally go home to their spouse/ significant other, they tell them everything they did and saw; they are wired up. Some of the more "eaten up" purchase a police scanner at Radio Shack so they can hear the radio calls while at home.

HOSTILITY STAGE - 4th thru 6th year

They now show up for work about 2 minutes before their shift, and they are hiding out about 30 minutes before end of shift, writing reports so they can just throw them in the sergeant's in-box and leave ASAP. They have to get to their second job to earn money to pay for the divorce that is pending. Their spouse is no longer interested in hearing about all the gore and heartache. They get the "you spend more time with the cops than you do with me" speech. They now know how the lieutenant got those silver bars on his collar. They consider the FOP, the city, and all brass to be as dangerous as any viper. They gripe about everything, drink excessively, chase women, and hate the public, politicians, media, etc. They feel they have more in common with the hookers, thieves, dopers, etc.. but hate them too. Those pens that write in the rain are no longer needed. Writing traffic citations can be a lot more trouble than they are worth, even on a nice day To write one, or to write anything while standing in the rain, is a sure sign of an insane person.

SUPERIORITY STAGE - 7th thru 15th years

This is when cops are at their best. They have survived changes in administration. They know how the political game is played, both inside and outside of the department. They know who they can trust and who they can't. They have select friends within the department, and stay away, as best they can, from the nuts and boot-lickers. They know the legal system, the judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, etc. They know how to testify and put a good case together. They are usually the ones that the brass turn to when there is some clandestine request or sensitive operation that needs to be done right. These cops are still physically fit and can handle themselves on the street. They will stay around the station when needed, but have other commitments; such as a second/third job, a second/third spouse, a second boyfriend/girlfriend (sometimes both), etc. They have most of their friends are Law Enforcement now.

ACCEPTANCE STAGE - 15th to ????

Now the cops have a single objective... retirement and pension Nothing is going to come between them and their monthly check The boss, the city (or State, or county), the idiots around the station, and the creeps on the street can all go to hell... because they could come between them and "sitting on the beach". There is no topic of discussion that can't somehow lead back to retirement issues. These guys are usually sergeants, detectives, crime scene technicians, station duty, or some other post where they will not be endangered, but being cops they still get stupid at times, and put their butts on the line. They especially don't want some young stupid cop getting them sued, fired, killed, or anything else causing them to lose their "beach time". These guys are always there if needed. They spend a lot of time having coffee, hanging around the station, and looking at brochures of things they want to do in retirement.

Retirement Stage

Then the retired cop usually dies within the first five years of retirement, because he/she misses the job - saving the city (or State, or county) a bunch of money. Go figure............its a great career, stay with it!!

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"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 620]

So, in essence, you're agreeing with us.

[Boomerdog 0]

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These folks come from the far sides of the spectrum, and I'm good with that.

Albeit, there are mulitple posts here by the same individuals (myself included), you have 110+ posts on this subject by reasonable people here. I don't always agree with them and likewise. But in reading the text of their posts, they make they defend their argument and don't seem "far side of the spectrum to me." Then again, some here may think I'm on one of those far sides.

Quote

"Smacks of us vs. them" spoken from the Ivory Tower.

Many here have spent time in the Ivory Towers and a few here work in the Ivory Towers but the Ivory Towers ain't the only place the "Us versus Them" concerns exist.

Quote

"Smacks of us vs. them" spoken from the Ivory Tower.

The memories do fade a little but I can remember some street fights I got into as a street urchin and I rolled around. Yea it's not fun even when your a kid.
And yes in that case it clearly is you or the perp. then again, you signed up for the work, nobody forced your hand on the employment contract.

The police can back off all they want. Where I live, the proximal separation between houses in rural areas is significant and the size of the police force is not big enough to cover the whole county and respond. IT'S WHY we're all armed to the teeth and the bad guys know it...they stay away lest they wish to be made an example of.

You're NOT indespensible, none of us are.

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

So, in essence, you're agreeing with us.

sounded like a version mirroring every other job out there

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[cvfd1399 0]

We debunked those numbers on 8/28/14 remember you were there....

95% of the shootings were justified, someone was either shooting at the cops, or attempting to harm another person. That left about 10 people shot and killed that was unjustified, and currently 4-5 of the cops were already sent to jail, and the others were awaiting trial.

[normiss 620]

Thanks for continuing to be entertaining.

Of course they're justified.
They're investigated by the department that did the shooting.
duh.

[Anvilbrother 0]

So in your mind 95% of the cases the police made up the fact that they were getting shot at, or that they were holding a hostage? Got it, your so out of your mind with police hatred you can't even see straight man.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,384]

>So in your mind 95% of the cases the police made up the fact that they were
>getting shot at, or that they were holding a hostage?

Probably more like 5 to 10%, as evidenced by the prosecutions of a smaller percentage of cops.

[cgriff 0]

Anvilbrother

So in your mind 95% of the cases the police made up the fact that they were getting shot at, or that they were holding a hostage? Got it, your so out of your mind with police hatred you can't even see straight man.

That's not what he said, and I find it hard to believe that you think he did. I think it's much more likely you're throwing up strawmen to be obtuse.

This is not really a complicated argument, folks.

It's asinine to argue the police can do no wrong, just like it's asinine to argue they can do no right. No one that I've seen is making either argument.

The real issue here boils down to those few bad apples who DO wrong, and face no consequences for it. Once I see the rest of the boys in blue up in arms about those cases too, then I'll believe that the majority of them have my best interest at heart. To protect and serve includes protecting the populace from your brethren, whether it's graft, negligence or just sheer incompetence that's causing the problem in the first place.

[kallend 1,621]

www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/chi-video-leads-city-to-settle-tanning-salon-raid-case-for-150000-20140908-story.html

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

No he thinks most of the shootings are not justified, but covered up by other police.

Here he posts a link that has the title of
"Local police involved in 400 killings per year"
Then he directs it toward a cop and says your winning

I provided a link where we went through all of 2013 shootings and found out that 95% were justified, and this is his reply

"Of course they're justified.
They're investigated by the department that did the shooting.
duh."

Please tell me how im taking it wrong that he doesn't think that the 95% justified shootings is pretty accurate?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[cgriff 0]

Anvilbrother

Please tell me how im taking it wrong that he doesn't think that the 95% justified shootings is pretty accurate?

So, there are only two options? They're ALL coverups, or they're ALL legit? Bullshit. No one here believes that