quade 3 #1 June 30, 2014 My question is in regard to this part; QuoteHawk told police he had done the same demonstration about 20 times without incident before the shooting, "racking" the gun's slide to clear it of bullets each time, Sharrow said. Somehow, the gun was loaded when Gearhart was shot. Police said Hawk told them he had left the gun on display when he completed background checks on some customers and believes it's possible someone loaded the gun when he was busy. Source: http://hosted2.ap.org/CAANR/cbf3767d533b4c4aae30db330aaf62aa/Article_2014-06-29-US--Gun%20Show%20Shooting/id-28686cd1b3744680b8abd3accab9e565 If he racks the gun before each demonstration to check the chamber, then would it still be possible for their to be a bullet in the chamber to fire? Also, he just left a gun sitting on a counter (and by his own implication out of his control) while doing background checks on some customers?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 June 30, 2014 And there is this little tidbit I saw in the news.... Artillery shell crashes through Okla. man’s home: ‘You would not believe how huge this thing is’ Go big and go thru home.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #3 June 30, 2014 Are we surprised by this anymore? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #4 June 30, 2014 Were we ever?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #5 June 30, 2014 In theory, racking the slide should clear any loaded cartridges from the chamber. But if there's a loaded magazine in it, then working the slide would put one in. In any case, simply racking the slide (no matter how many times) is not an adequate substitute for a visual check. And the rules "Treat Every Gun As If It's Loaded" & "Always Keep The Gun Pointed In A Safe Direction" are there for a reason. It's not clear from the article why the trigger was pulled. That shouldn't have happened. And the gun should have been pointed in a safe direction when the trigger was pulled. The article seems to indicate that he was demonstrating a holster. They make non-functional training guns (known as "Blue Guns") for that sort of thing. Fake guns that are clearly not real, but are shaped accurately enough for holster work and retention practice."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GD64 1 #6 June 30, 2014 I suppose the handgun could have a broken extractor thus failing to hook the cartridge rim and remain in chamber after racking. He broke all ten gun safety commandments except maybe the one that says use proper ammo. IMO he probably thought he racked the slide but didn't pull it back far enough to allow the extractor to eject round. Some handguns especially when new take a fair amount of strength to bring slide completely to rear. An all around bad move. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 June 30, 2014 quade If he racks the gun before each demonstration to check the chamber, then would it still be possible for their to be a bullet in the chamber to fire? Also, he just left a gun sitting on a counter (and by his own implication out of his control) while doing background checks on some customers? the article was a bit scant on details - I can't tell if the vendor shot her, or if she shot herself drawing from the holster. There's no defense for him shooting someone in the leg - that's two separate grossly negligent acts, three if the demo could be done with the trigger finger in the safe position. If he hands her a loaded gun and then she ADs herself in the draw, it's more muddled. She has responsibilities too, but he was already walking on the edge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #8 June 30, 2014 kelpdiver*** If he racks the gun before each demonstration to check the chamber, then would it still be possible for their to be a bullet in the chamber to fire? Also, he just left a gun sitting on a counter (and by his own implication out of his control) while doing background checks on some customers? the article was a bit scant on details - I can't tell if the vendor shot her, or if she shot herself drawing from the holster. There's no defense for him shooting someone in the leg - that's two separate grossly negligent acts, three if the demo could be done with the trigger finger in the safe position. If he hands her a loaded gun and then she ADs herself in the draw, it's more muddled. She has responsibilities too, but he was already walking on the edge. Has anyone considered he was paid to do that? Maybe her man decided she needed to be shot?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #9 June 30, 2014 turtlespeed Has anyone considered he was paid to do that? Maybe her man decided she needed to be shot? Every time I read about someone pointing a gun they presumed to be unloaded at a friend and pulling the trigger, I wonder if they did exactly what they intended to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 June 30, 2014 kelpdiver *** Has anyone considered he was paid to do that? Maybe her man decided she needed to be shot? Every time I read about someone pointing a gun they presumed to be unloaded at a friend and pulling the trigger, I wonder if they did exactly what they intended to do. Ain't that the truthEvery fibre of my being just does not compute how FUCKING stupid it is to accidentally shoot someone. Even the act of pointing a gun at someone unless I intend to kill them in their tracks is just not something I am ever willing to do. That was a very basic lesson that the grandfather cuffed me a couple times because I messed up with muzzle control... and that was the very simple lesson. Only point a weapon at another human being if they have decided they want to die. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #11 June 30, 2014 wolfriverjoeIn any case, simply racking the slide (no matter how many times) is not an adequate substitute for a visual check. It's like touching your handles, checking the chamber is a healthy compulsion. That said, I have a hard time believing that anyone would have loaded the gun while it was on display without malicious intent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #12 June 30, 2014 Amazon ****** Has anyone considered he was paid to do that? Maybe her man decided she needed to be shot? Every time I read about someone pointing a gun they presumed to be unloaded at a friend and pulling the trigger, I wonder if they did exactly what they intended to do. Ain't that the truthEvery fibre of my being just does not compute how FUCKING stupid it is to accidentally shoot someone. Even the act of pointing a gun at someone unless I intend to kill them in their tracks is just not something I am ever willing to do. That was a very basic lesson that the grandfather cuffed me a couple times because I messed up with muzzle control... and that was the very simple lesson. Only point a weapon at another human being if they have decided they want to die. Good post Much the same happened to me but add one embarasing exception. I had a range officer in an indoor range chew my ass about 15 years ago when I brain farte and lost sight of my muzzel direction Chewed my ass out in front of all there I had it coming I never forgot again (to date)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #13 June 30, 2014 rushmc ********* Has anyone considered he was paid to do that? Maybe her man decided she needed to be shot? Every time I read about someone pointing a gun they presumed to be unloaded at a friend and pulling the trigger, I wonder if they did exactly what they intended to do. Ain't that the truthEvery fibre of my being just does not compute how FUCKING stupid it is to accidentally shoot someone. Even the act of pointing a gun at someone unless I intend to kill them in their tracks is just not something I am ever willing to do. That was a very basic lesson that the grandfather cuffed me a couple times because I messed up with muzzle control... and that was the very simple lesson. Only point a weapon at another human being if they have decided they want to die. Good post Much the same happened to me but add one embarasing exception. I had a range officer in an indoor range chew my ass about 15 years ago when I brain farte and lost sight of my muzzel direction Chewed my ass out in front of all there I had it coming I never forgot again (to date) Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu51rszgotI BTW, my money is on: he negligently (but not maliciously) failed/forgot to rack the slide, and is just plain lying about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #14 June 30, 2014 AndyBoydAre we surprised by this anymore? Yes because it's exceedingly rare, not like a car killing a pedestrian (4000/year). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #15 June 30, 2014 Quote There's no defense for him shooting someone in the leg Testify, brother! What ever happened to "2 taps to center mass"? Amateurs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #16 June 30, 2014 If an accidental shooting has to happen anywhere, I can't think of a better place than a gun show. Everyone that walked in the door knew the hall would be filled with gun nuts. Of course, they all have the same mantra of "I've got the training" ..."Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #17 June 30, 2014 COCK_HOOK_and_LOOK and I was only in the RAF (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #18 June 30, 2014 Not quite He did not threaten me with shoving it..... well You know "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 61 #19 June 30, 2014 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/26/accidental-penis-gun_n_5511748.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063 Oopsie! Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skiskyrock 0 #20 June 30, 2014 quade If he racks the gun before each demonstration to check the chamber, then would it still be possible for their to be a bullet in the chamber to fire? The news reports I've heard say it was a .380. These tend to have lightweight slides and light recoil springs. If you put a round into the barrel manually (not from a magazine) and ride the slide down the extractor can come to rest on top of the cartridge instead of gripping it. Then when you drop the magazine and rack the slide, nothing comes out. When you release the slide it will slam home and grip the round, ready to fire. Which is why the visual check is such an important part of the clearing drill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #21 July 1, 2014 skiskyrock*** If he racks the gun before each demonstration to check the chamber, then would it still be possible for their to be a bullet in the chamber to fire? The news reports I've heard say it was a .380. These tend to have lightweight slides and light recoil springs. If you put a round into the barrel manually (not from a magazine) and ride the slide down the extractor can come to rest on top of the cartridge instead of gripping it. Then when you drop the magazine and rack the slide, nothing comes out. When you release the slide it will slam home and grip the round, ready to fire. Which is why the visual check is such an important part of the clearing drill. OK - so why pull the trigger then?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #22 July 1, 2014 turtlespeed****** If he racks the gun before each demonstration to check the chamber, then would it still be possible for their to be a bullet in the chamber to fire? The news reports I've heard say it was a .380. These tend to have lightweight slides and light recoil springs. If you put a round into the barrel manually (not from a magazine) and ride the slide down the extractor can come to rest on top of the cartridge instead of gripping it. Then when you drop the magazine and rack the slide, nothing comes out. When you release the slide it will slam home and grip the round, ready to fire. Which is why the visual check is such an important part of the clearing drill. OK - so why pull the trigger then? A severe case of dumbassery Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #23 July 1, 2014 Quote COCK_HOOK_and_LOOK Sounds like something from the 'red light' Soho district... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #24 July 1, 2014 www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/South-Florida-Police-Officer-Shot-with-Own-Holstered-Gun-265361541.html I thought the gun enthusiasts claimed that guns never fire themselves.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #25 July 2, 2014 no, they say, "guns don't kill people, people do". held true in this example._________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
