petejones45 0 #76 January 5, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotei suppose it may depend on the rate of gay rape. Has that been a problem already? Has Straight rape been a problem in groups showers? A recent program on AFN was talking about ~40% of women in the military being assaulted vs. ~10% of the men. So, yes, I'd say there's been a continuing problem. 85% of statistics are made up on the spotLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #77 January 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I just want fairness - I want equilibrium - if the gay guys get to go to the showers and enjoy the scenery, then the straight guys should be able to go where they can enjoy the scenery too. I mean, fair is fair after all, right? It is completely fair right now. The straight men can check out all the guys in the shower that they want. How is that not equal? Because straight guy are not turned on by guys, (bit slow today are ya?) straight men shoudl be allowed to shower with the ladies, so they too, can have some entertainment with their shower! Its only fair! Funny because that is the exact same argument that you and your ilk use about gay marriage. I can't tell you how often the bigots on here say things to the affect of. Gays have the same rights as straights with regard to marriage. The gay men are legally allowed to marry women just like the straight men are. They are asking for special treatment to be able to marry the same sex. So which is it? You can't have it both ways. Do the straight soldiers have the same rights to shower with the gay soldiers or are they asking for special rights?Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #78 January 5, 2011 QuoteQuote>How could you possibly know for sure unless you are a Gay man in >bootcamp? I dare you to find any military description of showers as a "place to enjoy scenery." Doesn't exist, other than in your mind. The beauty of it is now, though, is that it doesn't matter any more. It doesn't matter if soldiers are black or white, man or woman, gay or straight. All that matters is that soldiers do their jobs. So are you honestly trying to have us believe that if you were showering with a bunch of attactive women you would not enjoy the scenery more than if you were not? Do you think a gay man would enjoy showering with men more, since by definition it is their preference? Answering for myself, yes I would enjoy showering with woman more and I believe homosexual men would/ will enjoy showering with men more. You want straight men to be able to shower with woman, fine with me. Lobby your congressman. It would save money on separate shower facilities. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #79 January 5, 2011 Quote Quote It used to be that way. How could you possibly know for sure unless you are a Gay man in bootcamp? So before the repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell there were no homosexuals in the showers? Is this really why you are against repealing don’t ask, don’t tell or is there more? Because this seems kinda nitpicky. I never said DADT should or should not be repealed. All I am asking for is equal rights. Fair enough. Then consider the question asked to those who are against the repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell. You get a bill introduced for complete coed showers and I’ll ask my representatives to support it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #80 January 5, 2011 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/17/eveningnews/main4872713.shtml http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/us/17assault.html http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/us/military.sexabuse_1_sexual-assault-sexual-abuse-military-service?_s=PM:US Yet, these seem to be real stats, not made up. I am not sure if there was point to your post. It didn't add to the thread that is for sure. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petejones45 0 #81 January 5, 2011 Quotehttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/17/eveningnews/main4872713.shtml http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/us/17assault.html http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/us/military.sexabuse_1_sexual-assault-sexual-abuse-military-service?_s=PM:US yes those are actual stats, he just posted BS with no sources or links... which comes back to my point that most stats are made up http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14275 Yet, these seem to be real stats, not made up. I am not sure if there was point to your post. It didn't add to the thread that is for sure. MattLook out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #82 January 5, 2011 QuoteAll I am asking for is equal rights. No, things are equal right now, you are asking for special rights!Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #83 January 5, 2011 actually, I think Turtle may just well have been making a funny, tongue-in-cheeky comment. But that sure doesn't every work here now does it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #84 January 5, 2011 Quoteactually, I think Turtle may just well have been making a funny, tongue-in-cheeky comment. But that sure doesn't every work here now does it? I am not sure that he was given his posting history on the subject, but either way, it helps make the point that I was trying to make. People like him use that argument to oppose gay marriage. They say that Gays currently have the same rights as straights. A gay man can marry a woman just like a straight man can. So they are asking for special rights not equal rights. Here those same people are making the opposite argument because it suits the silly point they are trying to make.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #85 January 5, 2011 Quote Quote actually, I think Turtle may just well have been making a funny, tongue-in-cheeky comment. But that sure doesn't every work here now does it? I am not sure that he was given his posting history on the subject, but either way, it helps make the point that I was trying to make. People like him use that argument to oppose gay marriage. They say that Gays currently have the same rights as straights. A gay man can marry a woman just like a straight man can. So they are asking for special rights not equal rights. Here those same people are making the opposite argument because it suits the silly point they are trying to make. Take off the blinders, You will see it is throwing"Your" silly point back in yoru face! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 277 #86 January 5, 2011 QuoteQuote>No one in the Military can be Openly Sexual, on duty! Then no problem. Gay soldiers will be held to the same standards as straight soldiers, which is as it should be. BINGO You're married, right? Do you take your wife to work functions? Have a picture of the two of you together at work? That's what is defined as openly [hetero]sexual. It should not be a crime to do what you do behind closed doors, if the only difference is someone else does it with a person of the same gender. And I don't see how it affects how anyone does their jobs. However, unwanted sexual advances, or talk of a sexual nature that creates a hostile/uncomfortable work environment, IS illegal -- regardless of the genders of all involved -- and should be handled appropriately. [gets off soapbox]See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #87 January 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote >No one in the Military can be Openly Sexual, on duty! Then no problem. Gay soldiers will be held to the same standards as straight soldiers, which is as it should be. BINGO You're married, right? Do you take your wife to work functions? Have a picture of the two of you together at work? That's what is defined as openly [hetero]sexual. It should not be a crime to do what you do behind closed doors, if the only difference is someone else does it with a person of the same gender. And I don't see how it affects how anyone does their jobs. However, unwanted sexual advances, or talk of a sexual nature that creates a hostile/uncomfortable work environment, IS illegal -- regardless of the genders of all involved -- and should be handled appropriately. [gets off soapbox] While in Uniform, Soildiers are expected to keep to standards, which includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! BTW, My wife is an Excutive, I seldom go to any functions with her! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #88 January 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote >No one in the Military can be Openly Sexual, on duty! Then no problem. Gay soldiers will be held to the same standards as straight soldiers, which is as it should be. BINGO You're married, right? Do you take your wife to work functions? Have a picture of the two of you together at work? That's what is defined as openly [hetero]sexual. It should not be a crime to do what you do behind closed doors, if the only difference is someone else does it with a person of the same gender. And I don't see how it affects how anyone does their jobs. However, unwanted sexual advances, or talk of a sexual nature that creates a hostile/uncomfortable work environment, IS illegal -- regardless of the genders of all involved -- and should be handled appropriately. [gets off soapbox] While in Uniform, Soildiers are expected to keep to standards, which includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! BTW, My wife is an Excutive, I seldom go to any functions with her! And gay soldiers will also be held to that standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #89 January 5, 2011 Quotewhich includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! Never been to see a unit deploy or return from deployment, have you? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #90 January 5, 2011 QuoteWhile in Uniform, Soildiers are expected to keep to standards, which includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! Well...no shit. Continually trying to make about some sort of gay orgy in the office shows that you either can't comprehend the issue or you're deliberately misconstruing it. Talk about your wife: openly heterosexual. Picture on desk: openly heterosexual. Attend function with wife: openly heterosexual.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 277 #91 January 5, 2011 Quote You're married, right? Do you take your wife to work functions? Have a picture of the two of you together at work? That's what is defined as openly [hetero]sexual. It should not be a crime to do what you do behind closed doors, if the only difference is someone else does it with a person of the same gender. And I don't see how it affects how anyone does their jobs. However, unwanted sexual advances, or talk of a sexual nature that creates a hostile/uncomfortable work environment, IS illegal -- regardless of the genders of all involved -- and should be handled appropriately. [gets off soapbox] While in Uniform, Soildiers are expected to keep to standards, which includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! BTW, My wife is an Excutive, I seldom go to any functions with her!Agreed, but straight couples can still admit that they're couples, AND they can be married (and get education benefits, and housing, and health care, and...). Besides, just because you're wife "just can't take you anywhere..." See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #92 January 5, 2011 QuoteQuotewhich includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! Never been to see a unit deploy or return from deployment, have you? Good example Dan. Skyrider, before the repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell a gay soldier couldn’t come home from deployment and show any affection to their partner like a straight soldier could. It could cost them their career. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmarine253 0 #93 January 5, 2011 I feel like I get on DZ.com everyday and skyrider has posted yet another extremely far right winged view just to piss people off. Of those of you that are in the military or have served. I am sure your experience at boot camp was just as mine was. Where when you did take showers I know ours took about 10 seconds total. That gave no one to enjoy the scenery. I would advise people who are advocating this whole straight men should shower with women at boot camp thing is that no gay people are going to get the chance to look and get a "raging hard on" after they have been in the shower for 10 fucking seconds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #94 January 5, 2011 QuoteWhile in Uniform, Soildiers are expected to keep to standards, which includes evenb married couples not hanging on each other while in uniform! So what? What does that have to do with the subject? You have not made one single post that actually addresses the reality of what the repeal of DADT means. Everything you've written is based on your own fantasy-land version of what the repeal represents.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #95 January 6, 2011 Quote Quote These countries don't seem to have an issue: Albania Argentina Australia Austria Belgium Canada Republic of China Colombia Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Republic of Ireland Israel Italy Japan Lithuania Luxembourg Malta The Netherlands New Zealand Norway Peru Philippines Poland Romania Russia Serbia Slovenia South Africa Spain Sweden Switzerland Thailand United Kingdom Quote These countries do: Antigua and Barbuda Bangladesh Barbados Belarus Belize Botswana Brunei Cameroon Cuba Cyprus Dominica Egypt Fiji Ghana Grenada Guyana Iran Kenya Kiribati Jamaica Lesotho Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mozambique Namibia Nauru Nigeria North Korea Pakistan Papua New Guinea Saudi Arabia Seychelles Sierra Leone Singapore Solomon Islands South Korea Sri Lanka St. Kitts and Nevis St. Lucia St. Vincent and the Grenadines Swaziland Syria Tanzania Tonga Trinidad and Tobago Turkey Tuvalu Uganda Vanuatu Venezuela Yemen Zambia Zimbabwe Notice a pattern ? Yeah, they are all in alphabetical order...strange.... You may or may not have noticed all the Islamic countries forbid gays from serving. You probably never knew that you and Islam have so much in common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #96 January 6, 2011 Quote. . . And if the women in the military are in the barracks shower, I'll justy happen to stroll in and shower with them. That would be a completely and totaly viasble scenario, because it would amount to the same thing, right? Wouldn't it be the same as the girls coming in to shower wiith the boys? And it's a captive audience too... mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #97 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuote. . . And if the women in the military are in the barracks shower, I'll justy happen to stroll in and shower with them. That would be a completely and totaly viasble scenario, because it would amount to the same thing, right? Wouldn't it be the same as the girls coming in to shower wiith the boys? And it's a captive audience too... mh . Gay bondage military fetish porn. Now we're talking! Brow chicken brown cow....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #98 January 6, 2011 Quote Quote These countries don't seem to have an issue: Albania Argentina Australia Austria Belgium Canada Republic of China Colombia Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Republic of Ireland Israel Italy Japan Lithuania Luxembourg Malta The Netherlands New Zealand Norway Peru Philippines Poland Romania Russia Serbia Slovenia South Africa Spain Sweden Switzerland Thailand United Kingdom Notice a pattern ? Most of these countries have easy access to IKEA closets scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppykf 0 #99 January 6, 2011 +1THRIVING IN MY DASH!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #100 January 6, 2011 Just an inside view - 26 years of service and still going - son is gay: There is a chance that assimilation of openly homosexual servicemembers will resemble the assimilation of blacks. There will be some servicemembers that take issue with the openly gay and make it difficult for them. In all, however, I think the military culture is much more tolerant of such issues than ever before and will handle the transition well. There will be some expense. Individual rooms for servicemembers will be necessary. More privacy in showers might be necessary. There are problems lurking that we just haven't had to face before. We'll get through it. It had to happen sometime. Might as well be now.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
