There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

[DJL 232]

23 hours ago, DJL said:

I found the "12 Years" thing but I think he woke up and didn't know whether the rest was a dream or reality and just started typing.  Think that the was the premise of a Friend's episode where Phoebe was mad at Ross.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/08/global-warming-must-not-exceed-15c-warns-landmark-un-report

 

------

Looks like our girl AOC is parroting the 12 years thing in some context. Face palm emoji.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez-climate-change-alarm/2642481002/

[SkyDekker 1,122]

11 minutes ago, DJL said:

------

Looks like our girl AOC is parroting the 12 years thing in some context. Face palm emoji.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez-climate-change-alarm/2642481002/

True.

I think her points stands though. The younger generation is very worried about the longer-term impact potential of climate change.

[DJL 232]

11 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

True.

I think her points stands though. The younger generation is very worried about the longer-term impact potential of climate change.

-----

I do think she has a responsibility to accurately convey the issue which is that we have 12 years to be on a path to hit the 1.5C mark.

[Stumpy 256]

7 minutes ago, DJL said:

-----

I do think she has a responsibility to accurately convey the issue which is that we have 12 years to be on a path to hit the 1.5C mark.

A politician using hyperbole? Shocked I tell you!

At least the president has grown out of that! 

[jakee 1,254]

On 1/23/2019 at 7:20 AM, CanuckInUSA said:

You just made an accusation that I would not care that much if someone close to me died? Huh? Where did that come from?

He actually said the exact opposite. Seriously, go back and look.

 

If the rest of your gargantuan post was based on that false premise, you might wanna go ahead and apologise...

[richravizza 25]

On 12/30/2018 at 4:05 PM, kallend said:

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Where did I equate AGW with a nuclear exchange?
. . . .

The rest of your post shows a similar lack of reading comprehension.


Trump loves the poorly educated.

 

 

Ooops,sorry to have replied incorrectly, but thanks for the complements 

 

 

 

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

 

 

[Phil1111 910]

Donald Trump hopes to save America’s failing coal-fired power plants

The plan would benefit a handful of firms the president favours at the expense of consumers

REPUBLICANS have long prided themselves on their commitment to free markets. ... the president announced a new regulatory plan for America’s energy market. ... would prop up ailing coal- and nuclear-power generators by forcing electricity-grid operators to buy energy from unprofitable plants. The official justification for the policy was national security. But the chief beneficiaries would be a small number of companies, located mainly in Midwestern states whose voters backed Mr Trump in the presidential election of 2016

Germany to shutter all 84 coal-fired plants to fight climate change

Germany is planning to shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over a 19-year span in an effort to combat climate change. ... The Times noted that the announcement was significant considering coal plants account for 40 percent of Germany's electricity. The plan calls for $45 billion in spending to mitigate the pain in regions where coal is widely used. ...

The move to close coal-fired power plants comes about six years after Germany announced plans to phase out all of its nuclear power plants by 2022. Twelve of the nation's 19 nuclear plants have been shut down so far, according to The Times. 

Americans’ climate change concerns surge to record levels, poll shows

Total of 72% polled now say global warming is personally important to them, Yale said, as 73% accept it is happening

[ryoder 1,384]

Oh, yes, we need more coal-mining jobs: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/coals-deadly-dust/

In short:

1. About 20 years ago the mining industry started mining thinner seams of coal than before.

2. Cutting thinner seams means they are cutting a lot more rock.

3. Cutting rock means generating dust with a high silica content.

4. Silica is a lot worse for human lungs than coal dust.

5. So now instead of just getting Coal Workers Pneumoconiosis (aka Black Lung), miners are also getting Silicosis at an even higher rate.

 

But we need more of those wonderful coal mining jobs!!!

 

[billvon 2,400]

3 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Donald Trump hopes to save America’s failing coal-fired power plants

The plan would benefit a handful of firms the president favours at the expense of consumers

REPUBLICANS have long prided themselves on their commitment to free markets. ... the president announced a new regulatory plan for America’s energy market. ... would prop up ailing coal- and nuclear-power generators by forcing electricity-grid operators to buy energy from unprofitable plants.

Well, on the plus side, perhaps this will tend to mute the attacks on solar/wind power "because it's subsidized."

[richravizza 25]

 

On 1/15/2019 at 2:45 PM, billvon said:

And here in California, PG+E has just declared bankruptcy - due primarily from costs due to wildfires. Which, of course, have been exacerbated by a warming climate.

You really went there?

 

[richravizza 25]

The world population estimates for 2050 are at about 10 billion,and by 2100  estimates range from 11.2 -15 billion. While the planet is capable of sustaining 9 billion, so in as little as 30years we will be at the planets maximum sustainable population.

 Its estimated that 30% of our GHG comes from agriculture. Jonathan Foley 

Population control. Damn I dont want to touch it, with a ten foot pole.

quick review @14:00

Edited February 1, 2019 by richravizza
time saving

[billvon 2,400]

8 hours ago, richravizza said:

The world population estimates for 2050 are at about 10 billion,and by 2100  estimates range from 11.2 -15 billion. While the planet is capable of sustaining 9 billion, so in as little as 30years we will be at the planets maximum sustainable population.

 Its estimated that 30% of our GHG comes from agriculture. Jonathan Foley 

Population control. Damn I dont want to touch it, with a ten foot pole.

It's one of the things we will have to touch.

Lots of issues with climate change make people uncomfortable.  Libertarians don't like regulations or even the hint of population control.  Conservatives don't like taxes or plant based diets.  Liberals don't like nuclear power.   Free market types don't like to consider non-growth economies. But everyone is going to have to accept things they don't like, one way or another.

[gowlerk 1,912]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

It's one of the things we will have to touch.

Lots of issues with climate change make people uncomfortable.  Libertarians don't like regulations or even the hint of population control.  Conservatives don't like taxes or plant based diets.  Liberals don't like nuclear power.   Free market types don't like to consider non-growth economies. But everyone is going to have to accept things they don't like, one way or another.

I'm not so sure the world needs to look at population control. I think all we need to do is to give power to women and the problem will be solved.

[tonyhays 86]

"The cure for poverty has a name, in fact: it's called the empowerment of women. If you give women some control over the rate at which they reproduce, if you give them some say, take them off the animal cycle of reproduction to which nature and some doctrine—religious doctrine condemns them, and then if you'll throw in a handful of seeds perhaps and some credit, the floor of everything in that village, not just poverty, but education, health, and optimism will increase. It doesn't matter; try it in Bangladesh, try it in Bolivia, it works—works all the time. Name me one religion that stands for that, or ever has" -- Christopher Hitchens

While he was referencing poverty it could also be applied to population control

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I'm not so sure the world needs to look at population control. I think all we need to do is to give power to women and the problem will be solved.

Yes, that's a great way to solve the problem - specifically educating women.  Education of women gives them more control over their own bodies, and gives them the tools to choose what they want to do with their lives.  (And also significantly reduces the instance of child brides, underage pregnancy and birthrate.)  To that end, I highly recommend the charities Tostan and Camfed.

[richravizza 25]

On 12/30/2018 at 6:48 PM, billvon said:

>As far as the coral reefs. do you realize that the the amount of co2 needed to decimate is
>nearly lethal to the mammals that evolved as that result?

Doubling pre-industrial CO2 levels (from 280 to 560ppm) will put coral reefs at risk for dissolving due to the lower pH.
https://phys.org/news/2009-03-coral-reefs-dissolving-atmospheric-co2.html

At 560ppm, a building is considered to have "good air exchange." At 1000ppm some people start to notice increased drowsiness. At 5000ppm humans begin to suffer health effects. At 40,000ppm CO2 can become deadly.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/carbondioxide.htm

So you're off by about two orders of magnitude.

Agreed. There's a lot more than climate change.

If you think that Glacier National Park was once a "barren ice covered lifeless prison" - you have never been there.

There's nothing wrong with CO2. Like oxygen and nitrogen, it makes up our atmosphere and we've evolved to live with it. We're just making too much of it, and that's increasing CO2 - which brings with it risks (dissolving coral reefs, increasing temperatures and the subsequent rising sea levels.)

 

On 1/15/2019 at 2:45 PM, billvon said:

And here in California, PG+E has just declared bankruptcy - due primarily from costs due to wildfires. Which, of course, have been exacerbated by a warming climate.

Glacial National Park is often referanced as an ecological  Catastrophe, Visual evidence of man made Global warming.Pictures are superinposed onto referance points then portrayed with such loss,devistation.Sorrowfully you should  continpate with remorse.

We DID THIS.Mankinds drug. ecstasy and addiction . A taking a raping of the natural world. A sort of original sin, our purposful,evil use of fossil Fuels.So what of our toil,pain misery,from the unbearable suffering and rechedness of that past.

The 10,000 Year average, what of that... Yes,yes the 10,000 year average, a clean cool peaceful stable place.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by richravizza
video

[Coreece 190]

On 1/15/2019 at 5:45 PM, billvon said:

And here in California, PG+E has just declared bankruptcy - due primarily from costs due to wildfires. Which, of course, have been exacerbated by a warming climate.

Right, costs primarily due to lawsuits because of their faulty equipment that sparked 17+ major fires recently.  So they file for bankruptcy to cap their liability and will most likely raise prices to cover their losses. 

I wonder how the whole climate change excuse will hold up in court. . .

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

Right, costs primarily due to lawsuits because of their faulty equipment that sparked 17+ major fires recently.  So they file for bankruptcy to cap their liability and will most likely raise prices to cover their losses. 

If the temperatures hadn't been as high as they were, then they would not have had the problems they did.  You can claim that the higher temps had nothing to do with climate change - but you can't credibly claim that higher temperatures didn't drive many of these problems.

[richravizza 25]

On 1/27/2019 at 3:53 PM, Phil1111 said:

Germany to shutter all 84 coal-fired plants to fight climate change

Germany is planning to shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over a 19-year span in an effort to combat climate change. ... The Times noted that the announcement was significant considering coal plants account for 40 percent of Germany's electricity. The plan calls for $45 billion in spending to mitigate the pain in regions where coal is widely used. ...

The move to close coal-fired power plants comes about six years after Germany announced plans to phase out all of its nuclear power plants by 2022. Twelve of the nation's 19 nuclear plants have been shut down so far.

He was also pleased that the commission recommended that utilities scrap plans to clear the last 250 acres of the Hambach Forest west of Cologne for a lignite open-pit mine.

Phil this is exciting news.

Question,with the Germans' closing their nuclear reactors how will they accomplish their goals from a physics stand point.Leave it to the Germans to figure it out, but when I was stationed there we had a saying, "eight months of winter and four months of no summer," lol So i'm sure solar isn't as optimal as it is in SoCal.

If interested check out is last video,his farewell.A man that truely  "walked his talk" if thats the saying.

 

 

[richravizza 25]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

If the temperatures hadn't been as high as they were, then they would not have had the problems they did.  You can claim that the higher temps had nothing to do with climate change - but you can't credibly claim that higher temperatures didn't drive many of these problems.

You must not live in SoCal. We have a uniue weather condition here called the Santa Annas' Hot Dry air from the deserts flow to the ocean thru a mountainous region forcing that air thu the mountain passes and valleys at extrordinary velocity  for the past 5000 years.

The Santa Ana winds and the accompanying raging wildfires have been a part of the ecosystem of the Los Angeles Basin for over 5,000 years, dating back to the earliest habitation of the region by the Tongva and Tataviam peoples.^[15]

The Santa Ana winds have been recognized and reported in English-language records as a weather phenomenon in Southern California since at least the mid-nineteenth century.^[1] Various episodes of hot, dry winds have been described over this history as dust storms, hurricane-force winds, and violent north-easters, damaging houses and destroying fruit orchards. Newspaper archives have many photographs of regional damage dating back to the beginnings of news reporting in Los Angeles. When the Los Angeles Basin was primarily an agricultural region, the winds were feared particularly by farmers for their potential to destroy crops.^[1]

The winds are also associated with some of the area's largest and deadliest wildfires, including one of the state's largest and deadliest fires on record, the Camp fire, Thomas Fire, and Cedar Fire, as well as the Laguna Fire, Old Fire, Esperanza Fire, Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889 and the Witch Creek Fire.

It was these winds that fueled the devistation like so many times in the past,

as a matter of fact the Great Sequia Tree use the fire as a part of their reproduction cycle.They are some of the largest and oldest trees on this earth,hope you have an opportunity to admire them up close and in person some day its therapeutic  

     M.R.C.A .park ranger stopped by my shop the day,befor and told me to "Batton Down the Hatches we're in for a big one,"

So the alarmist hysteria is definatly at a fever pitch, I wonder, is there any weather event thats not a conseqence of AGW?

[jakee 1,254]

4 hours ago, richravizza said:

The winds are also associated with some of the area's largest and deadliest wildfires, including one of the state's largest and deadliest fires on record, the Camp fire, Thomas Fire, and Cedar Fire, as well as the Laguna Fire, Old Fire, Esperanza Fire, Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889 and the Witch Creek Fire.

So... eight major fires listed, and six of them happened within the last 16 years?  Ok, it's not necessarily a representative sample, but still.

 

The problem with your stance here is that it discounts any change in freqency or intensity. The wind has always facilitated wildfires, so that's all there is to it. There are significantly more fires now? Doesn't matter, it's just the wind. The fires are significantly bigger now? Doesn't matter, it's just the wind.

 

It's like if a known violent drug gang moved to your town and the murder rate spiked but you say hey, we've always had murders in this town so it's nothing to do with the gang!

[Phil1111 910]

The severity of the socal fires are due to a combination of factors.

-spreading urbanization which precludes natural burns, planned burns, both of which could reduce the undergrowth which fuels, in part, these fires.

- drought and higher temperatures which increases the risks of fires. Together with the intensity and spread of the fires.

- an apparent lack of maintenance of the electrical grid, which may have ignited some of the fires.

Cherry picking events, stories, or articles to make points in the debate about GW. Needs to be tempered with the evidence and common sense. The recent UN report relating a deadline of 12 years to bring GW under control. Seems unduly alarmist.

However, photographic evidence of vanishing glaciers, satellite calculations of a shrinking antarctic and arctic ice mass. Can't be dismissed.

Some climate change deniers like to dismiss the entire the entire concept that humans can influence anything on this planet. That any changes in weather or environment are either exaggerated. Or due entirely to natural factors. That humans can't change anything about such natural courses of events anyway.

To which I submit the Montreal Protocol of 1987, re CFCs.

In the clouds, a silver lining: The ozone layer is on track to fully heal

 

 

[gowlerk 1,912]

There is definitely a tendency to over blame climate change for natural disasters. But it is mostly a reaction to the blatant refusal of some people to accept that they have a part in causing climate change and that it may be worth while to do something about it. They are both just symptoms of the policy battle. 

[billvon 2,400]

10 hours ago, richravizza said:

You must not live in SoCal. We have a uniue weather condition here called the Santa Annas' Hot Dry air from the deserts flow to the ocean thru a mountainous region forcing that air thu the mountain passes and valleys at extrordinary velocity  for the past 5000 years. . . .

It was these winds that fueled the devistation like so many times in the past,

 

San Diego.  Yep, Santa Anas are a fact of life here.  They have always been here, and have always caused problems.  Now since they are even hotter, they cause even more problems.

Quote

So the alarmist hysteria is definatly at a fever pitch, I wonder, is there any weather event thats not a conseqence of AGW?

MOST weather is not a consequence of AGW.  We had weather before AGW, we will have weather after it's gone.  Things will just be warmer.  You are trying to prop up a strawman.

Quote

     M.R.C.A .park ranger stopped by my shop the day,befor and told me to "Batton Down the Hatches we're in for a big one,"

Imagine what you would think of someone who heard that and claimed "Santa Anas don't exist! You just want to impose your draconian government control on me. You must be a hysterical alarmist."

[richravizza 25]

19 hours ago, jakee said:

So... eight major fires listed, and six of them happened within the last 16 years?  Ok, it's not necessarily a representative sample, but still.

 

The problem with your stance here is that it discounts any change in freqency or intensity. The wind has always facilitated wildfires, so that's all there is to it. There are significantly more fires now? Doesn't matter, it's just the wind. The fires are significantly bigger now? Doesn't matter, it's just the wind.

 

It's like if a known violent drug gang moved to your town and the murder rate spiked but you say hey, we've always had murders in this town so it's nothing to do with the gang!

 

23 hours ago, richravizza said:

The Santa Ana winds and the accompanying raging wildfires have been a part of the ecosystem of the Los Angeles Basin for over 5,000 years, dating back to the earliest habitation of the region by the Tongva and Tataviam peoples.^[15]

The Santa Clarita Valley is believed to be the center of Tataviam territory, north of the Los Angeles metropolitan area. They were noted as a distinct linguistic and cultural group in 1776, by Padre Francisco Garcés, and have been distinguished from the Kitanemuk and the Fernandeño.^[4]

This is my home town.

 "The Santa Ana winds and the accompanying raging wildfires !!!"

The problem is not my stance,its the facts..How can you have a Reported Major wildfire if no one is there,to report it.

Its in the tree rings of  ancient  Giant Sequoia Trees, minor and major fire scars. Since befor Jesus Christ .

Your analogy is flawed.. the the violent gang has always been, then people moved in,kids got addicted, substandard electric systems installed, forestry practices ignored, improper weed abatement, and fire brakes, A literal turf war broke out.

the murder rate went up,homeless rate went up.

.Giant Sequoias Yeild Longest Fire History From Tree Rings. Prescribed firesimulates the natural role of fire in the parks. California's western Sierra Nevada had more frequent fires between 800 and 1300 than at any time in the past 3,000 years, according to a new study based upon tree-ring research.

Sierra Nevada had more frequent fires between 800 and 1300 than at any time in the past 3,000 years.