Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not?

[DSE 3]

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[edited to respond to theonlyski]
The BSR was implemented at the last BOD meeting. The new SIM doesn't publish for a couple more months. That's the problem with paper; takes a while for it to catch up.

You would think they could edit the online version pretty easily though...

Why bother editing one line when the entire book is under review, re-write, and approval, due to be accepted in two weeks at the Summer Board meeting?
It's on the USPA site and has been since February. Letters in Parachutist have been written, and it was in the USPA newsletter.

In other words, the info is/has been out there since the week after it was implemented.

[ridestrong 1]

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And here's today's reason why this is still a bad idea:

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I came across this thread because I recently got in a plane without a rig on. I'm fairly new at camera flying (about 75 total and 20 tandem video jumps). A tandem student was already geared up when they decided they wanted video and I was asked to do it. In my rush to get ready and do the ground interview I had everything ready except my rig. I don't know how long it would've taken me to notice (hopefully I would have) but the engine was running before someone came to the plane and told me.
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That is BAD!!!!! I can see where that would be more likely to happen with an actual camera flier working tandem vids than an avg fun jumper. I have seen the camera fliers at my dz get really busy and they are literally landing, grabbing a packed rig out of the trailer, and jumping right on the next load. Sometimes the TI may even be holding a rig for them in the plane. Point is some of them are used to climbing into the plane without their rig already on their back. If a fun jumper is so easily distracted by something like a GoPro as to do the same thing they should absolutely never jump with one again.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[DSE 3]

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Yeah... your absolutely right, that you can't be right. If you disagree with up number jumpers some of them are quick to just insult you, usually by calling you a 'SkyGod' with 'MadSkillz' and telling you that you think you are hot shit, have a bad attitude and don't want to learn etc... it is just their MO.

no one from my quarter has called you names nor insulted you.
OTOH;
~you've read reasonable arguments from very experienced people, yet you disregard anything they have to say (that's insulting as well).
~You've made your own potentially eggregious errors in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)
~You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again)
~There is a long list of incidents, potential incidents, major and minor errors that come from a broad spectrum of skydivers in your particular class.

Yet you've essentially tossed all that off and said "none of that applies to me, because I'm more capable than others at my experience level."
One cannot have a reasonable debate with a brick wall.
Ask Skittles, TunaSalad, or several others here; I'm HAPPY AS HELL to take you out on training jumps while you wear a camera with me. And you'll perhaps recognize why you aren't ready. But I'm _always_ willing to teach, learn, and help others the way I've been taught and helped along the way.

[ridestrong 1]

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~You've made your own potentially eggregious error in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)

I did what I felt was right at the time... and explain my thought process in that thread. I'm happy to go back there and continue to discuss it. As long as you or anyone else reads through the entire thread first so it's not a cut and paste discussion..

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~You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again)

So I've been told... but no one has managed to tell me why. In fact, the responses I've got are essentially, 'Wow did you just ask that... you need to stop jumping now.' and 'you don't know what you don't even know, and ' You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again). Pretty much makes my point about how you guys always have the "right" answers.

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~There is a long list of incidents, potential incidents, major and minor errors that come from a broad spectrum of skydivers in your particular class.
Yet you've essentially tossed all that off and said "none of that applies to me, because I'm more capable than others at my experience level."

Save your words for your own mouth.

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One cannot have a reasonable debate with a brick wall.
Ask Skittles, TunaSalad, or several others here; I'm HAPPY AS HELL to take you out on training jumps while you wear a camera with me. And you'll perhaps recognize why you aren't ready. But I'm _always_ willing to teach, learn, and help others the way I've been taught and helped along the way.

I have stood my ground on some issues and admitted defeat on others... but what ever makes you feel better about your 'constructive criticism'.

I'm always happy to learn... whether it's from you, my dz instructors, my friends, a noob fresh off AFF, it doesn't matter, any experience level can have something valuable to add.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[DARK 0]

good debate guys keep it up

i pretty much agree with everyone since my last post so not much to say really

[NovaTTT 1]

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(directed to DSE)

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I have stood my ground on some issues and admitted defeat on others... but what ever makes you feel better about your 'constructive criticism'.

@DSE

I know you don't take that personally, Douglas, as this guy is a jackass to everyone!

Hopefully he'll grow enough to one day be properly embarrassed by the stuff he's been saying in these threads.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[sundevil777 93]

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...and may or may not have dementia...

That always cracks me up - the tendency for people to say, "may or may not". Of course that is true, anyone may or may not be anything!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[timmyfitz 0]

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~You've made your own potentially eggregious error in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)

I did what I felt was right at the time

With more experience you would not only know that this was a bad decision but it would have also NOT felt right. It worked out for you in this instance but getting away with making a bad decision does not make it right.

[Heatmiser 0]

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~You've made your own potentially eggregious error in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)

I did what I felt was right at the time... and explain my thought process in that thread. I'm happy to go back there and continue to discuss it. As long as you or anyone else reads through the entire thread first so it's not a cut and paste discussion..

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~You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again)

So I've been told... but no one has managed to tell me why. In fact, the responses I've got are essentially, 'Wow did you just ask that... you need to stop jumping now.' and 'you don't know what you don't even know, and ' You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again). Pretty much makes my point about how you guys always have the "right" answers.

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~There is a long list of incidents, potential incidents, major and minor errors that come from a broad spectrum of skydivers in your particular class.
Yet you've essentially tossed all that off and said "none of that applies to me, because I'm more capable than others at my experience level."

Save your words for your own mouth.

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One cannot have a reasonable debate with a brick wall.
Ask Skittles, TunaSalad, or several others here; I'm HAPPY AS HELL to take you out on training jumps while you wear a camera with me. And you'll perhaps recognize why you aren't ready. But I'm _always_ willing to teach, learn, and help others the way I've been taught and helped along the way.

I have stood my ground on some issues and admitted defeat on others... but what ever makes you feel better about your 'constructive criticism'.

I'm always happy to learn... whether it's from you, my dz instructors, my friends, a noob fresh off AFF, it doesn't matter, any experience level can have something valuable to add.

Actually, I did respond to what you said here. I'm neither a skygod, nor am I interested in bashing you. Clearing your airspace, if possible is a good idea, and it is the responsibility of the High Man to continue to track away and create separation. The reason is simple, the low man is closer to the ground. The low man may be an A license jumper, (who is required to have pack opening by 3000 feet, to allow time to deal with malfunctions). I'm sorry if you didn't say that the high man should pitch to create vertical separation if a collision is imminent, either it was you, or the person you were quoting. In the event it was you, here was my response, "1st and foremost, If you're the high guy at 3000 feet and a collision is imminent, you don't immediately pitch to gain "vertical separation." The second your PC comes out, you've lost all directional control. If you snivel, and the low guy has a quicker opening, then you have a decent chance at a canopy collision. High man is the one that continues to track away and opens lower."

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[rehmwa 2]

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I love the whole slam Twardo part above!!

I must step up here.... We really should have a rule against slamming Twardo... I mean, he's so frail at his age, we'll break him!

"frail", much like beef jerky is frail

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,400]

> If a fun jumper is so easily distracted by something like a GoPro as to
>do the same thing they should absolutely never jump with one again.

If they do indeed ever do that, they are guaranteed to never jump with one again. Problem is you don't get a second chance.

[ridestrong 1]

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High man is the one that continues to track away and opens lower.

I agree...

In DSE's statement he says, "The relative worker who was nearly hit had no idea another person was that close until he heard a canopy opening just below and to his side."

I know the camera guy was in the wrong. All I'm saying is regardless of being high, low or otherwise every jumper should be as aware of their own airspace as possible at pull time.

I did say that the high guy may want to consider a quick pitch, I see the flaws in that statement... and agree with you that it would be better to track for separation.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[DSE 3]

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High man is the one that continues to track away and opens lower.

I agree...

In DSE's statement he says, "The relative worker who was nearly hit had no idea another person was that close until he heard a canopy opening just below and to his side."

I know the camera guy was in the wrong. All I'm saying is regardless of being high, low or otherwise every jumper should be as aware of their own airspace as possible at pull time.

I did say that the high guy may want to consider a quick pitch, I see the flaws in that statement... and agree with you that it would be better to track for separation.

Now you're contradicting your previous post (which is good, it means maybe you did learn something).

"camera guy" (who was actually freeflying, using the camera to film his heading), wasn't tracking. Beginning freeflyers often slide all around the sky ergo; "tracking." He was asked to wait 7-10 seconds. Video shows he waited 4.

The "RW" guy was on a rating evaluation skydive. He did everything (including tracking in the correct direction) correctly in the skydive. There is no possible way he could have "cleared his airspace" as you said was our problem.

[porpoishead 5]

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Until USPA comes out and says "No Camera flight until minimum 200 Jumps", then it will be nothing more than opinions and there are so many sides to support both pro and con for waiting or not waiting. I liken this to the the Wingsuit flight recommendation.

so many sides?? WTF does that mean??how many sides are there exactly?? you either agree or disagree sounds like one or the other......waiting or not waiting....uh that sounds like two sides.....thats sooo many i had to take my shoes off to count

and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazzards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

anybody???? bueller???

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[airtwardo 6]

and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minimum recommendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

That one's simple....ya get some really cool HERO videos that you can show all the kids on the bus, and maybe get laid!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 2,400]

>and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation . . .

Nothing to post on Youtube. Without video you might as well not exist on-line.

[theonlyski 3]

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That one's simple....ya get some really cool HERO videos that you can show all the kids on the bus, and maybe get laid!

We've all done stupid stuff to get laid (atleast the guys here).

You gotta ask yourself something, is the juice worth the squeeze?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[porpoishead 5]

stylin!!! i love getting laid ...i might just go get one of those go-stupids and hang it off my nuts like a disco ball whilst getting laid....would provide much more entertaining footage im sure

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[JimGoFast 0]

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Until USPA comes out and says "No Camera flight until minimum 200 Jumps", then it will be nothing more than opinions and there are so many sides to support both pro and con for waiting or not waiting. I liken this to the the Wingsuit flight recommendation.

so many sides?? WTF does that mean??how many sides are there exactly?? you either agree or disagree sounds like one or the other......waiting or not waiting....uh that sounds like two sides.....thats sooo many i had to take my shoes off to count

and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazzards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

anybody???? bueller???

Yeah that does read lame...I meant to say there are so many points to support both pros and cons...

Just Enjoy The Ride...

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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...and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazzards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

anybody???? bueller???

Yeah that does read lame...I meant to say there are so many points to support both pros and cons...

[porpoishead 5]

fair enough bud

so like joe said whats the pros for disregarding a recommendation to have a bit of experience with your basic equipment before introducing other potential hazzards

that reads kinda lame too....im just saying

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[airtwardo 6]

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stylin!!! i love getting laid ...i might just go get one of those go-stupids and hang it off my nuts like a disco ball whilst getting laid....would provide much more entertaining footage im sure

Don't do it...I don't wanna see ya 'Go In'!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[porpoishead 5]

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stylin!!! i love getting laid ...i might just go get one of those go-stupids and hang it off my nuts like a disco ball whilst getting laid....would provide much more entertaining footage im sure

Don't do it...I don't wanna see ya 'Go In'!

thats some bullshit!! why you cockblocking T ??

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[DSE 3]

And yet another incident over the weekend involving a small format camera and a low time jumper.
Keep those stories comin' folks.
JimGoFast; I'm curious which instructors at your DZ are saying you're good with jumping a camera?

[Anvilbrother 0]

Are you ruling out the fact that..

A: Shit does happen, and has always been happening to these jumpers in the 1-200 jump range regardless of a camera?

B: The camera played a direct role in what happened and would absolutely not have happened if the camera was not present?

Just because a teen gets in a car wreck does not mean a cell phone caused ALL the wrecks happening to teens because one just happened to be in the car at that time, teens have been getting in car wrecks for years.....BUT factors in some no argument there

I'm not pushing for anyone jumping a camera before 200. I just know you seem to be heading the torch and pitchfork mob. Just wondering how you are analyzing things and if you are padding the "incident list" because you feel so strongly about the subject.

Just don't want everyone who gets a stubbed toe, or anything that could have happened to anyone getting on your "camera list" when it would have happened to anyone regardless if a camera was strapped to their head or not.

I'm all for safety(part of my job in the fire service) and don't want to see ANYONE on ANY "list", so I agree with the cause, but would hate to see fake inflated reports.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,