DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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So, we all have the story down on all of them, now it is time to bring forward the evidence, anything, just bring it forward.

CKRET: Tell me what you want - what can I give you?

What can I provide to you that you do not have. TELL me what I have and what I can get that will help you.

The Butts and the registration card are buried in the governments files. I can't get those for you.

What documentations on Duane and John Collins do I have that will help you. If I get statements from the people - do you want them notarized or what.

I will do what-ever it takes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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Orange1, my apologies for rambling. I will cut down my verbosity.

wasn't aimed at you. well, maybe one or two of your posts but you are not the worst culprit!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

WOW! Ckret you just got called out!

[Greene 0]

Not responding to just "skywhuffo's" post directly.

Just want to say that this is probably the most interesting topic on DZ.com.

[maurico 0]

To be fair to Ckret, he can't be expected to investigate based on something someone might have said without something tangible to pin Weber or whoever to the crime. This is a cold case after all and there is no active investigation, just a call for evidence that might solve it.

ps I have no view on who Cooper was. My main interest in the case is - did he make it?

Cheerio then

[Ckret 0]

Jo since you asked, as I have told you many times in our conversations when you make a statement of fact concerning Duane you must have some form of proof to support the statement.

Go back over your many post and each time you find a sentence where you are asserting fact, at the period insert a new sentence that starts, "Because....

Because he said so, is not evidence

Because aunt Gerdie said so is not evidence

Because a prison buddy who was with Duane said so is not evidence.

Because I discovered a receipt dated November 23rd 1971 in the name of John Collins for one night stay at the Portland Happy Flyers motel, now thats evidence and my toes, they are a tappin.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'll talk to someone claiming direct knowledge of Duane's or anyones involvement in the Cooper Caper that is willing to talk. But I don't have that either, so far it's a friend of a friend that heard something strange that you twist to fit your belief that Duane was Cooper.

Go ahead, take the test, go back and look at all the things you claim to be fact. Now tell me what proof do you have to support the claim.

While your at it knock this battery off my shoulder, I dare you.

[low_pull1 2]

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I want where John Collins signed in so I can compare the signature with another persons.
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can uspa signatures be compared to the signature that ckret has? How did yearly renewal work in 1971?

[low_pull1 2]

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I think another problem is the perpetual use of the original sketch... but that's my total opinion.
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I have the same opinion based on the fact that son of sam sketch was misleading also.

c

[low_pull1 2]

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I will do what-ever it takes.


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How about the knife? Send him that.

[low_pull1 2]

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Just want to say that this is probably the most interesting topic on DZ.com.
..............

yea, i get tired of reading about people doing low turns and getting hurt.!

[skyjack71 0]

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Because he said so, is not evidence
Because aunt Gerdie said so is not evidence
Because a prison buddy who was with Duane said so is not evidence.
Because I discovered a receipt dated November 23rd 1971 in the name of John Collins for one night stay at the Portland Happy Flyers motel, now thats evidence and my toes, they are a tappin.
Again, don't get me wrong, I'll talk to someone claiming direct knowledge of Duane's or anyones involvement in the Cooper Caper that is willing to talk. But I don't have that either, so far it's a friend of a friend that heard something strange that you twist to fit your belief that Duane was Cooper.
Go ahead, take the test, go back and look at all the things you claim to be fact. Now tell me what proof do you have to support the claim.

ALL of that is garbage and you know it...that is a 19 yr old making banter. Get REAL. I tell WHAT I know and what I have learn from people who knew Duane and the records I have accumulated. I am not twisting anything - the FBI does the twisting.

I am not the FBI and I am not a detective. All I can do is report a crime and tell you what I know - the investigation is up to you....I have offered you what I
have - "copies" of anything I have. Most of this the FBI should have.

Tax Reports, copies of criminal records, copies of military records, statements and tapes from others that have given me information. I have already been told that the records on John Collins may have been purged..but they forgot what I have - maybe this piece of paper was Duane's ACE. NO one CAN purge what I know and what I have. Either the FBI is more naive than I am or they don't really care - and you are just into this for the publicity.

I offered in earnest what I have and you poked fun at it. What does the Federal Bureau of Investigation stand for. They take information and investigate it.

HOW am I supposed TO ACCESS the FBI files to find the statement that Cummings gave to the FBI in Nov of 1971? The FBI knows very well that the hotel changed hands 3 times and is no longer there. SO ALL there is regarding this - happens to be what is in the FBI FILES.

I get a notarized copy of his statement and you will just say it was what Aunt Gertie said.

I can get him to give a statement of what transpired, but you won't accept that. The FBI had the opportunity to talk to him when he was in the states and didn't do it.

I am a ordinary citizen and I AM NOT allowed to pilfer thru FBI files - but you can bet that if those cigarette butts are there - that I would find them.
HAVE you ever contacted the office that is supposed to have those BUTTS? No - obvious from a prior post you made.

A private detective cannot do much more than what I have done - what I need is a high powered attorney to force the FBI to do what it should have done yrs ago. I don't know an attorney that would take on the FBI - I don't even know if that is possible. But I do know that common sense tells me that when I present as much circumstancial evidence and clues as I have that there must be some way to make someone do something beside make a riddle out of what I have told the FBI.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[ltdiver 3]

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A private detective cannot do much more than what I have done

Except bring to the table a non-passionate and objective understanding to the evidence. An outside, non-invested party might develop more understanding to the mound of information and perhaps sum it all up differently. Or confirm. At this stage of the game it might be the most prudent step to take.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Orange1 0]

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A private detective cannot do much more than what I have done.

I disagre entirely Jo. Go back and read your own posts as to what you say you "need" people to find out what Duane did or didn't do at this or that time etc - that is precisely what a private detective can do that you clearly haven't been able to. And agree with ltdiver about the objectivity aspect (or is that what you're afraid of?). Sitting here on this forum continually carping about the FBI isn't doing anything to help anyone, least of all yourself.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Except bring to the table a non-passionate and objective understanding to the evidence. An outside, non-invested party might develop more understanding to the mound of information and perhaps sum it all up differently. Or confirm. At this stage of the game it might be the most prudent step to take.

I am passionate, but I am also objective. The FBI is the one with the set mind. How many times have I asked them to produce something that proves he wasn't Cooper?

Objective - I look for things to prove to myself that Duane was not Cooper - so far anything that has presented itself has been ruled out.

I see only two alternatives at this time. One of course is just to let it all go and the other is to use the one avenue of pursuit that I have not wanted to use because of the embarrassement it would cause my family.

I had the plan in place before that chute was found and I held off because I thought I might not need to go the course,

To find a private investigator that I could afford and that could do it all in a short period of time - he doesn't exist.

It would take 24/7 for over a yr just to go thru the mass accumulation of paper, tapes, emails, photos and documents - to pick and choose what he (probably a ninja turtle who doesn't even know who Cooper was and too young to think 1971) wants to check out.

He then would need to travel to check out some of it and need the expert opinion of various professionals.

I don't have that kind of time or money.

Anyone know Donald Trump? Maybe the forum can talk him into vesting into this - he can afford it.

By the way I think I found Duane's daughter - if it is her she died in 2005 at the age of 59. Sending for a death notice to see who the mother and father was.

I cannot make things I held in my own hands and saw with my own eyes go away - if I could replay those memories back like a video camera - the world would know that I am not crazy - that I have been objective and UPfront.

Is there not something that you remember in your life that you will never forget - but no one was there to see it, but you and no one is alive that might have been there and could verify your story. Perhaps you were molested as a child and too young and afraid to tell anyone. Someone told you a secret and that person died, but no one believes that person would ever do such a thing, but he showed you Proof that he did.

Imagine your frustrations when you tried to tell someone and they treated you like you had lost it - that you weren't all there. How would you feel if they talked about you in front of their children and you are just going about your business and a child points and says 'There's that Crazy Woman."

I know what I know and NO one can take that away from me. Maybe Duane played a cruel joke on me but - that is the only other explanation and seems illogical since it took 17 yrs before he got to the punch line and then I didn't "get" it.

You nor anyone else has walked in my shoes during the 17 yr marriage and the 13 yrs since his death, but maybe the FBI needs to put themselves or their loved one in my shoes. What if it happened to them?

If it were not for my strong background regarding right and wrong - I would have let this go a long time ago. Because of the things I saw and heard prior to his confession - I will never be able to let it go...until someone puts something in my hands that proves he was not Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[ltdiver 3]

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I am passionate, but I am also objective

There is a reason that skydiving instructors do -not- teach their close friends and relatives to skydive. There is no way they can stay completely objective when they're that close to the subject.

Perhaps there is some philanthropist out there who can financially help you, Jo. But it's like listening to a one string orchestra to hear the same thing from the same source without external back up. Sorry.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Orange1 0]

Jo, with respect, I think many people on this board would not consider you as objective - from many of your posts. Including the fact that every time someone pops up with an alternative theory you immediately attack them, accusing them of being x y or z author etc - not exactly listening to all the arguments.

As for affording a private detective: imagine how the reputation of someone would be enhanced by finally cracking the DB Cooper case. If you could convince one that your case has merit I'm sure you could find someone willing to do the legwork.

If you truly believe it would take someone over a year 24/7 to go through everything - well then surely you can understand why the FBI won't. I've seen more than one post on other boards lambasting the FBI for spending any energy on this case when there are many current cases that need to be solved. That's a point of view which you clearly are not willing to accept, and that alone points to the lack of objectivity here. We understand this is very personal for you, but there is a bigger picture here too.

And again you are asking for someone to prove that he was not Cooper. That is not where the burden of proof currently lies.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[jumpin_Jan 1]

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Quote

Except bring to the table a non-passionate and objective understanding to the evidence. An outside, non-invested party might develop more understanding to the mound of information and perhaps sum it all up differently. Or confirm. At this stage of the game it might be the most prudent step to take.

I am passionate, but I am also objective. The FBI is the one with the set mind. How many times have I asked them to produce something that proves he wasn't Cooper?

Objective - I look for things to prove to myself that Duane was not Cooper - so far anything that has presented itself has been ruled out.

I see only two alternatives at this time. One of course is just to let it all go and the other is to use the one avenue of pursuit that I have not wanted to use because of the embarrassement it would cause my family.

I had the plan in place before that chute was found and I held off because I thought I might not need to go the course,

To find a private investigator that I could afford and that could do it all in a short period of time - he doesn't exist.

It would take 24/7 for over a yr just to go thru the mass accumulation of paper, tapes, emails, photos and documents - to pick and choose what he (probably a ninja turtle who doesn't even know who Cooper was and too young to think 1971) wants to check out.

He then would need to travel to check out some of it and need the expert opinion of various professionals.

I don't have that kind of time or money.

Anyone know Donald Trump? Maybe the forum can talk him into vesting into this - he can afford it.

By the way I think I found Duane's daughter - if it is her she died in 2005 at the age of 59. Sending for a death notice to see who the mother and father was.

I cannot make things I held in my own hands and saw with my own eyes go away - if I could replay those memories back like a video camera - the world would know that I am not crazy - that I have been objective and UPfront.

Is there not something that you remember in your life that you will never forget - but no one was there to see it, but you and no one is alive that might have been there and could verify your story. Perhaps you were molested as a child and too young and afraid to tell anyone. Someone told you a secret and that person died, but no one believes that person would ever do such a thing, but he showed you Proof that he did.

Imagine your frustrations when you tried to tell someone and they treated you like you had lost it - that you weren't all there. How would you feel if they talked about you in front of their children and you are just going about your business and a child points and says 'There's that Crazy Woman."

I know what I know and NO one can take that away from me. Maybe Duane played a cruel joke on me but - that is the only other explanation and seems illogical since it took 17 yrs before he got to the punch line and then I didn't "get" it.

You nor anyone else has walked in my shoes during the 17 yr marriage and the 13 yrs since his death, but maybe the FBI needs to put themselves or their loved one in my shoes. What if it happened to them?

If it were not for my strong background regarding right and wrong - I would have let this go a long time ago. Because of the things I saw and heard prior to his confession - I will never be able to let it go...until someone puts something in my hands that proves he was not Cooper.

Lemme see if I understand you Jo.

The only 'proof' the FBI can't or won't produce.
They are meanies.
You can't afford a PI.
If _could_ afford a gumshoe you are the most qualified person anyways so why not use the self professed expert.

Oh!
one more thing, you have a trump card but it will embarass your family so it will never be held up for public scruitny.
(only to be disclosed to persons signing an NDA?)

Did I get that right?

"Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

[novalis 0]

dear mr ckret:

you write:

"Cooper knew what was going to happen because hijackings were on the news every month back then. Anyone who watched the news knew how these things played out. It took very little planning to hijack a plane in the late 60 early 70's, you just did like you saw reported on the news and you could expect the same outcome. "

i have given this some thought (and slept over it which sometimes helps). i think you underestimate cooper.

none of us on this board would undertake a hijacking and a jump based on tv coverage of these things. think about it: an "average human" being would not risk his freedom and his life without investigating the matter.

i wonder if you don't have too low an opinion of "criminals" in general?

in any case, it is my experience, that the sounder procedure in any contest or fight is to assume that the opponent is no more stupid than i am. (you remember the colts and joe namath.) no, let's assume dan, criminal though he was, was as intelligent as the gentlemen (and ladies) posting on this board, and produce our hypotheses based on this assumption.

thanks
novalis

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

People, people... it's okay, take a deep breath and let out those frustrations...

I think the difference of opinion is the difference between someone who has searched for more than a decade and witnessed a confession from the man himself vs. some neutral third parties who are trying to give the blueprint to convince them.

I saw the "objective" argument as some people with different opinions on what that means.

Skyjack71, I think what they're trying to say is that you have an "interest"... or better, "conflict of interest". Doesn't mean its necessarily bad, but it's the same reason a surgeon doesn't operate on his family; conflict of interest.

Objective just means looking at all sides without bias. In all fairness, I don't see how it would be possible to remain "objective" if a man confessed to the crime and then when you stop and think about it, you come up with 20 reasons why he was telling the truth.... tough to stay objective at that point.

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I don't know an attorney that would take on the FBI

You actually do, but I'm guessing you'd rather deal with the devil, satan himself.

[Ckret 0]

Novalis, go back to bed for a few more minutes (I hope these smiley faces work, i am trying to joke around here). What I mean by Cooper knew what was going to happen is that more than likely, based on common knowledge of the day, the airlines would cooperate with his demands.

[Ckret 0]

Jo, I have never made fun of you nor would I. The fact is i have asked you for supporting documentation and to date none has arrived. I don't want tax returns. Send me something that puts Duane in the Pacific Northwest (on his own free will). Send me something that proves Duane had received jump instruction. Send me something that proves Duane had knowledge of 727 operation.

I have a question too, if I understand, you assert that Duane burned the money? Someone with Duane's background, who, if I am to believe the story, essentially got away with stealing $200,000 at great risk to himself, then burns it because he is afraid someone could track a $20.00. This as I know it, would be an impossibility.

[novalis 0]

dear ckret,

i do take your message in the spirit it was sent. but as to your advice to go back to bed; where i am it is the middle of the afternoon.
novalis

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo, I have never made fun of you nor would I. The fact is i have asked you for supporting documentation and to date none has arrived. I don't want tax returns. Send me something that puts Duane in the Pacific Northwest (on his own free will). Send me something that proves Duane had received jump instruction. Send me something that proves Duane had knowledge of 727 operation.

I have a question too, if I understand, you assert that Duane burned the money? Someone with Duane's background, who, if I am to believe the story, essentially got away with stealing $200,000 at great risk to himself, then burns it because he is afraid someone could track a $20.00. This as I know it, would be an impossibility.

YOU KNOW i HAVE NEVER SAID THAT DUANE E VER BURNED OR DESTROYED ANY MONEY. THAT IS NOT TRUE.

I WAS TOLD THAT ANOTHER PERSON BURNED SOMETHING - BUT NOT BY DUANE. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 21]

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I don't know an attorney that would take on the FBI

You actually do, but I'm guessing you'd rather deal with the devil, satan himself.

[skyjack71 0]

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one more thing, you have a trump card but it will embarass your family so it will never be held up for public scruitny.
Did I get that right?

No, you didn't get it right. I was trying to state that there was plan in place befpre the chute was

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber