DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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The hotel clerk saw a picture of weber several years ago, showed his wife, and then called the newspaper and skyjack71 to say "that's the strange guy I remember"...

You see, this is where my cynic-meter goes screaming off the scale. The guy was a hotel concierge. How many people did he see passing through every day? Yet a guy he met once briefly, he can absolutely positively ID from a photo he sees, what, over 30 years later?

As for your comment about Weber's circumstantial evidence being the best in your opinion... that's the problem with circumstantial evidence isn't it? Other people think other suspects fit the circumstantial evidence best. Without any real evidence anywhere, everyone can go round in circles all day long and nothing leads anywhere.

Personally, if I want a conspiracy theory btw, I much prefer the one where Himmelsbach was in league with Mayfield

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[novalis 0]

i agree with the tendency of your remarks.

everything up to the jump, where he was in sight or contact with those trying to apprehend or shoot him, shows a man who is pretty much in command. it is a risky business that he has undertaken, but having gone into it there is evidence that the man is prudent.
then comes the jump, and the minutes leading up to it. this is a time when no one saw dan cooper. and in this second part of the story some peple believe that we have a man who didn't know what he was doing? i don't buy that any more than you do.

i also agree with your view about the visit to the wc. nothing but dan cooper telling the crew that he would be in the wc "for awhile" can account for the crew having that piece of information. (even if a light goes on somewhere the light can hardly know that it will be burning "for awhile".)

due to some of dan cooper's behaviour during the hijacking i wonder if he had a police background, or airlines background, that allowed him to predict with reasonable certainty that the plane would not be stormed at the first stop?

[Ckret 0]

Cooper knew what was going to happen because hijackings were on the news every month back then. Anyone who watched the news knew how these things played out. It took very little planning to hijack a plane in the late 60 early 70's, you just did like you saw reported on the news and you could expect the same outcome.

With regard to this clerk, again I say, show me the facts (really I mean evidence). I want where Tim Collins or John Collins signed in so I can compare the signature with another persons. And with regard to witnesses, hearing the same story told from another person just means they told the same story, which still makes the original a story. Don't get me wrong, there is value in having two stories but without evidence their still stories.

[novalis 0]

dear mr. ckret,
are you telling me that once television was really full of information?
how times have changed; now its mostly dis-information.
thank you.
novalis

[Albert18 0]

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I'm sorry, but I need to see a body.

So do you believe Steve Fosset is still alive too?

Steve Fosset is not a wanted man. The real Cooper, if alive, would still be in hiding.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Doesn't matter who fits circumstantial evidence the best.

It's a matter of opinion, and that's okay.

One thing though...

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Personally, if I want a conspiracy theory btw, I much prefer the one where Himmelsbach was in league with Mayfield

When did I advocate a conspiracy theory?

Conspiracy theories have a lot of moving parts and involve more than one person.

An example would be:
Cooper lost the money.

It's a conspiracy theory. Why? Because someone had to find it, not report it, decide it was lousy, and then get rid of it.
Two people and lots of moving parts = conspiracy.

Cooper died.

It's a conspiracy theory. Why? Because someone finds the body and the money, does not report either, takes the money, at some point decides to get rid of it.
Two people and lots of moving parts = conspiracy.

Not only have I never advocated a conspiracy theory on this board, but others advocate them all day long and then point the finger at others for doing what they do...

Here's one:
But the plane was in a different location!

It's a conspiracy theory. Why? Because the radar was furnished by an official with the USAF. He would have had to "lie" or "doctor" the radar. Then, everyone else who calculated the landing zone would have had to equally doctor things... Rataczak would have to lie about quickly getting on with ATC to report the oscillation (which would affect the timeline)... and all of these moving parts just to move the jump location (which may or may not even be enough)...

Loads of moving parts, several people involved through unknowing screw-ups = conspiracy theory.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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I want where John Collins signed in so I can compare the signature with another persons.

I wasn't aware the FBI had Cooper's signature...

AWESOME!

Handwriting analysis is now in play, that's good to know.

Also, with regard to the sign in ledger, I've been told (which obviously does not make it true) that the Portland FBI took that paperwork. When asked about it by Skyjack, the former agent on this case told her they would have just thrown it out... (and she always complains on these boards about that)...

I think maybe there were some agents working this case in the past that were just.... hmmmm.... smart asses. But skyjack71 would actually take them seriously...

I'd recommend to get whatever files from Portland that they'll let you borrow... and just see if there's anything interesting in there. Wouldn't have to be this stuff, there could be a lot of interesting things...

[Ckret 0]

Opinions, theories and stories are great, i have mine just like everyone else. I just want readers to have a full understanding that everything that people have posted on here relating to a specific person (every last word) is nothing more than a story, theory or opinion. Not one piece of evidence exist to directly support one word of it.

[Ckret 0]

In regard to handwriting, i was thinking more along the line of comparing John Collins' handwriting sample to that of Weber to see if they are the same. We don't have a sample of Coopers handwriting

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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In regard to handwriting

Thanks, that makes sense.

Okay, a piece of paper should be easy to obtain. Hopefully skyjack71 will scan some stuff in so that at least there's a "shred"...

I do stand by my opinion that Anne Faass is on record as having witnessed the money in a bucket comment. I also stand my opinion that a televised show (not some delusion of grandeur) did have an improbable 1 in 3,000 FRS outcome (whether or not that means anything would be up for debate).

I also stand by the geography of clark county, timeline of money deposit, and condition of the money... until there's one "shred" of evidence to suggest otherwise, I see no reason to change my opinion... and I'm glad to change my opinion if someone can show me something.

Isn't it too bad Lyle Christiansen, Matt Meyers, etc are not here... I'd pour over their stuff too...

[Orange1 0]

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I'm sorry, but I need to see a body.

So do you believe Steve Fosset is still alive too?

Steve Fosset is not a wanted man. The real Cooper, if alive, would still be in hiding.

You're being disingenuous. You said you don't believe he died till someone can show you a body. Nothing to do with hiding. Everything to do with an example of how you can have an intensive search for someone and still not find them.

Safe, the conspiracy theory bit wasn't aimed necessarily at you, it was just a general comment. It's not even a proper conspiracy theory - just someone having something on one FBI agent to help conceal a crime.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

Make no mistake, i am only speaking to subjects being forwarded by individuals as being Cooper, not the work being done on the the known facts we do have.

Again, many people have gone "on record" right here making statements they would have you believe are fact. Doesn't mean it is, just that they believe it is so.

Trust me, everyone in the Bureau wanted McCoy to be Cooper. But there was not, and still is not one piece of evidence that makes McCoy Cooper.

[Ckret 0]

And another thing (I am on a role) I don't care who Cooper turns out to be, just that i can prove it. If it's Weber or any of the others thats fine with me, I just have to be able to prove it.

So, we all have the story down on all of them, now it is time to bring forward the evidence, anything, just bring it forward.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Thank you for clearing that up Ckret.

I would hope readers of this thread can tell when we're talking about "just the facts" and when we're putting on our "theory" hats and working it out...

There's definitely two lines that we tend to follow, each has its fun, and in a way, each has its merit.

Orange1, I appreciate you clarifying...
just someone having something on one FBI agent to help conceal a crime.

Let me go "on record" (ha ha ha) that I do not, have not, and (more than likely) will not ever believe that some guy in the FBI tried or is trying to "cover up" the truth.

That's me. I realize there are people on this board who believe the opposite. Meyers & Skyjack71 being two of the prominent ones... Meyers believes like you said, Himmelsbach covered for Mayfield through being a dimwit, and has insinuated that the two *may* have been in on it to some degree (some degree would be very small, he's never said they were crime partners or anything)... and then Skyjack has said people have told her things and she thinks losing the cigarettes was a sign of missing evidence (or cover up).

I personally don't buy it and never will... not unless some guy in the Bureau gets busted for tampering or something...

although, I must say, how in the world does the FBI lose the cigarettes?? That's very odd to me. I don't see why they would have left the Seattle office... and if they did, wouldn't there be a record of who sent for them???

I don't believe a conspiracy, but the cigarettes do call into question just how secure some of this evidence may have been... it would be nice to locate them, or at least figure out what happened to them.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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So, we all have the story down on all of them, now it is time to bring forward the evidence, anything, just bring it forward.

On the face of it, the "odds" would be against all suspects. What are the odds that any one guy is the guy? Not good.

With these particular suspects, I agree with you, let's get some actual stuff out on the table to at least support the "story"...

Unfortunately for us, there's only one of the people here on this board... the others would have to be rounded up. Meyers was here earlier in the year and made a few posts, but it would seem he's gone.

He was emphatic that he "solved" the case. I agree with Ckret, let's see the solution. Put it on the table.

I will say this, if any of these guys, or anyone else, could ever be proved, what a day that would be!...

One last thing, Ckret... please let me know if there are any developments with the landing zone data. I base all of my "opinions" and deductions on what's at hand... if something is shaky, I would like to know. Thanks.

[Ckret 0]

The cigarette butts were never in the Seattle office, they were recovered by the Las Vegas office and sent to Quantico for analysis. After processing they were returned to Las Vegas for storage. So the butts told their story back at the lab, they gave all they could give and could give no more. It's not like they were lost and never processed.

They may still be in Las Vegas for all I know, I can't find the paper work that state the items were disposed of, nor can I find the butts. Alas, another mystery to the mysteries.

[Orange1 0]

Did I miss this on here... has anyone posted the pic of the "new" suspect? (I believe this is the guy they were talking about on the radio there) at first i thought "nah"... but the hair and the ears are very similar, lol! Problem is we know (according to all I have read) that sketches always get something wrong, and we won't know what that is. Anyway, the comparison doesn't look all that convincing to me but thought I'd post it anyway.

By the way (sorry this has been a long thread and i forget things)... has it been discussed that Florence apparently redictated a sketch in 1988 that was very different to the original?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

You must not read the posts Orange1.

Galen Cook Suspect

For those opposed to clickies, it's post 337 of this thread.

I also did a fun and games type of photo analysis of this suspect's photo against others.

It can be found here or at post 345.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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has it been discussed that Florence apparently redictated a sketch in 1988 that was very different to the original?

Yes. It was discussed in the previous thread and was mentioned on these threads several times. Those clickies I posted above (specifically post 345) discusses how I also played around with the photos using Schaffner's photo from 1988.

The results were discussed in post 345.

"The only sketch that really produced anything different was the Florence Schaffner sketch of 1988. When I ran Cook's suspect against Christiansen using the Schaffner sketch, Galen's guy beat him by 5%. I then ran the same test against Weber and it was a statistical tie."

Now that you've listened to the radio show, the post will make more sense... this candidate is weak, only because Cook made a less than convincing argument. It doesn't mean it wasn't his guy, just that there needs to be A LOT more disclosure or "storytelling".

[Ckret 0]

about the sketch, i wish there never was a sketch, just a description. I get so much traffic based on nothing more than, "I have a friend that really looks like that sketch and he acted a bit strange after the whole Cooper thing." Oh? "how tall is your friend?" "about 5'9, blue eyes and light brown hair." "was he swarthy?" "no, I'd say med to fair complexion."

People are using that sketch as if it were a photo of Cooper. the physical description of Cooper should be what folks look at first, not the sketch. If the physicals match, then take a look at the sketch as a guide only.

[Ckret 0]

I can direct Cook to this site, I am suprised he has not found it yet. the problem is he will go on national radio a tell the approximately 150,000 listners about it. Then Quade would really get cranky. Now that I think about it........

[Orange1 0]

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You must not read the posts Orange1.

I read most of them - I must admit the long rambling ones often get skimmed over though - but I don't always open the attachments. And I haven't listened to the show.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I think another problem is the perpetual use of the original sketch... but that's my total opinion.

I'm sorry you have to weed through people who do not fit the description. If it means anything to you, when the FBI released the wanted poster, they had the description posted along with the sketch...

They tried.

I certainly don't consider the revised sketch a "photo", but when a guy beat out a database on biometric characteristics, the odds are fairly against that happening... and it still happened.

Certainly not proof, but not "well, anyone could do that" either. I will also add, my fun and games included comparisons to all discussed suspects (except mccoy)... you can see for yourselves, some suspects are just better matches the sketch.

Christiansen & Weber are the best ones (out of the ones discussed here).

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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I can direct Cook to this site

LAUGH OUT LOUD... you're right on about him spilling the beans all over the radio.

Just me, I know I "welcomed" him here... but between you, me, and the hundreds of readers, I would be very apprehensive at having him here... (we thought snowmman was bad)

I'd much rather you tell us some details that he may not have discussed on the radio... that is, if you're allowed to do such a thing.

Orange1, my apologies for rambling. I will cut down my verbosity.

[skyjack71 0]

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With regard to this clerk, again I say, show me the facts (really I mean evidence). I want where Tim Collins or John Collins signed in so I can compare the signature with another persons. And with regard to witnesses, hearing the same story told from another person just means they told the same story, which still makes the original a story. Don't get me wrong, there is value in having two stories but without evidence their still stories.

I contacted you when the night clerk was in the state for health reason and to see his wife get her citizenship. You made NO effort to contact him. I can provide you with his email and then he can provide you with an address - as he is now back in China. I told you he was going back March 6.

This night clerk was working at a SMALL hotel just outside of the gate of the airport - It was Eve before Thanksgiving - the hotel was NOT full. The FBI DID come after he CALLED THEM. While there they interview himself and another guy and I believe the owner. The FBI TOOK the hotel registration which ( consisted of several names and tag numbers on a single page). He was asked not to handle it and the agent put it in a plastic bag. I understand there were two agent - the interview last over an hour.

I told the prior agent about this and I have submitted it in my long emails and mails to the FBI.
In the beginning he was living in the states. He saw an article that Margie Boule did for her paper and she had pictures that had not been released to the media at that time...he immediately recognized Duane and thru Margie was able to contact me. We both checked each other out before ensuing a conversation. I had already gone down that road with individuals who made false claims...such as the taxi driver ...when I got thru with him he did not bother the FBI or me again.

This man was creditable. I gave the FBI his contact information at that time - they obviously were not interested in 2000. You weren't interested when he was in the state this yrs 2008 and NOW he is back in China and you want a statement. I will give you what information I have and you NEED to get his statement. Now the excuse will be - he is in China and we don't have an agent there. I can try to get a notarized statement or letter from him regarding this. He sent me a email WHICH I GAVE to you except for his contact information - AGAIN you were not interested enough to follow-up.

I told you that he signed in as John Collins and that I would provide enough writing samples of Duane Weber covering a period of yrs to match the signature on the card with....to put Duane in Portland on the 24th of Nov. 1971. NO RESPONSE UNTIL I GO ON A PUBLIC FORUM WITH THIS INFORMATION.

In another post a statement is made that those claiming that individuals are Cooper are not you providing information to support their claims. I have tried, but I needed the support of the FBI also. For me to have an individual write these things down and give them to you - how could that be evidence unless the FBI actually obtains this information themselves. For 12 yrs they have known how to contact Ann and for 8 yrs the night clerk. The ex-wife was alive until 2006. The step--daughter who told me she knew Duane was Cooper - was alive when I contacted the FBI about her statement - she died 2 yrs later.

The statement from Anne the woman who overheard Duane's strange ramblings - a statement was taken by Doug Pasternak and the FBI wasn't interest at that time. One of the posters is correct - I don't know where she is now. Up until a couple of yrs ago I did...

All of this evidence you are asking for now.
Much of this could have been given by his wife of the time...I had asked the FBI to wire me and let me go talk to her - but, no that is not how the FBI does things. She died 2 yrs ago, but not before trying to contact me - I am sorry that I lost contact with her those last few yrs - but I could not give her my phone number after I remarried because she had the tendancy to call me at all hours - I enjoyed her calls and our talks, But, I had a new husband and I respected our time together. I did call her every once in awhile...when I could reach her ( the last couple of yrs she was in a nursing home due to her failing health, but she WAS MENTALLY ALERT).

On down in another post you talk about comparing the writing of John Colins to Duane Weber. I can provide you with that and have been willing to do so also the information that proves they are one and the same.

QUESTION: What handwriting does the FBI have of John Collins except for his prison records......

I have the original COMMUTATION of sentence and we know that Duane was in Jefferson. I know that Jefferson never gave me straight answers. I had several communication with them and they would say that John Collins nor Duane L. Weber were never there and I would get another communication they found the information. I send someone to Jefferson with a letter to obtain this information on my behalf and they are turned away. Now the Jefferson is being torn down - WHERE are their records? See another Delay that has probably resulted in LOST INFORMATION.

I also enquired about other inmates in this prison. One time the individual says - yes a certain person was there and the next time it is no. I was referring to the Tommy man. It is a fact that Ray was there so no one can dispute that.

Duane is released on March 12, 1968 and Martin Luther King is killed on April 4, 1968. Duane and Ray know each other. Ray gets a call from Collins at a place he is working in CA. (recorded documents) while he is on the run.

In March of 1968 - a politician who supported the King makes his annoucement that he is going to run for president....he dies a few months later. Not that this has to do with anything - just noting that a LOT happens in a 6 month span after Duane gets out of prison. John Collins disappears after 1968 and Duane Weber is reborn. I have been told a strange story regarding 1968, but I have not been able to verify it.

You can also take this back to 1962 - and walk it thru about John Collins - that is when John was born - Miami, Alpha 66, Chicago-Maifa, New Orleans,
Companies formed as fronts to payroll individals giving their time to the "cause". What kind of training did these individuals get? Wasn't one of the known training ground Ms - that is where the John Collins SS originated from.

I am just giving a summary of some of the ODD places my search has taken me:

The "COMMUTATION OF SENTENCE" has caused me to revisit all of this in the past 2 days.

I have explored every thing I could for the past 12 yrs and I am tired. It is a NO WIN situation with the FBI - the agents are too young to think back over the ys. Most of them were not born until 1970 - I do not expect them to be able to think or correlate information that is so entwined in our history during the worse yrs of American politics.

Evidence - NOT because I haven't offered it up, but the FBI hasn't wanted the evidence - .

Why didn't the FBI interview Anne and the nightclerk?
THEY were available - Anne in 1996 and the girl who did the garage sale, they might even have been able to find the man who bought the parachute part off of me, the man who knew Duane as John Collins and threatened me, the night clerk when he surfaced in 2000, the step-daughter when she was living --- too many things left undone until it is too late.

NOW, the FBI wants evidence ..where have they been for the 12 yrs I have dedicated to this?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber