DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

I am going to try to get this to you all right - I have the tax returns infront of me:

1970
Taxable $ 1272.
Earned Income $ 11,132.
Emoloyers:
Cherokee town & Country Club - Atl
Burke Concrete Acc. Burlingame, CA.
Modulus Corporation - Cleveland Ohio.
American Income - Atl.
H-K Corp - ATl.- wife
S.S Kresge - Michigan - wife

Residential Address ; Atlanta, Columbia S.C.,


1971
Taxable $1557.
Earned Income $3733.
Other Income - sell of personal items -$1500
Employers:
H K Corp. S.C. - wife
Singer Co. Ga - wife
American Income - Atl. - D
Robinson Skipper -W

Residential Address: Atl., Columbia S.C.,

This will clarify the 1970 and 1971.
Will do 1972 in separate post.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I can't give you as many details on this return because of privacy issues - regarding the new wife, but will give you the information on Duane:
This will have to be a different format - I have to separate it out.

Income:
American Income $2387. Tx
American Income $8813. At.
Ray Griffin Ass. $140. Ak
(this one is ODD)
This is the man I tried to find
But do not know why the W-2
would read Little Rock, AK - I
was told Miami.

Shows taxes paid on New Cars and Taxes paid on the old trailor he owned plus Ad Valorm and real estate taxes. Lots of Dr. bills and New Glasses...Large medical Bills.

Shows a sale of property stating a loss.

The 1973 tax return shows the purchase of 2 new cars. BUT 2 new cars were also purchased in 1972 with one showing on his tax return and the other obviously on the ex-wifes return. I also have family verification (one of the daughters came to Atl. to help her mother move in may of 1972).
Pictures were taken of the new vehicles. The ex-wife"s car would be on her tax return.

He was also paying alimony to the ex - I don't know if he really did.

Note: Of the cars purchased in 1972 - one was his and the other was for the wife - who left him after her return to his side in February of 1972 and then they divorce in May or June of 1972. He remarries that same yr a few wks latter.

Note: That the 1973 return shows the purchase of 2 new cars - yet he had purchased new cars in early 1972 with virtually NO income from 1971. The 1972 purchase may have been an enticement to get his wife back. There ware NO loans on the 1972 vehicles purchases.

Repairs and remodeling of the new home. All of this was an issue in a divorce settlement of 1977 and liens against his renewals in 1982. I am NOT at liberty to discuss this issue. The matter was settled.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Thanks Jo. I don't see what could amount to any particular huge overstatement of income in those numbers as per Safe's posts though?

Buying new cars... $5000 at a time? Yes it's a lot of money for those days. Were they paid for in cash? Could $5000 conceivably have been stolen during some other crime?
All I'm trying to get at is that there is definitely more than one theory that fits the facts, such as they are. Sorry to be cynical but I am not seeing anything major convincing here, other than possibly some kind of evidence Duane was a criminal, which is already a matter of record.

Incidentally I think this may have been discussed before, but what would be the volume of $200K in $20 bills?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Attention CKRET: We need help :

The 1972 cars had to have been paid for with CASH as there are no loans recorded ...and his income prior for 1971 showed he was NOT existing. He was not working in Jan and Feb of 1972. A robbery that would have paid for two new cars would surely have made the papers.

This crime had to happen between Nov.1971 and late February 1972. OKAY - CKRET - any unsolved robberies for that period of time. ANYWHERE USA.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Okay, one last time...

somewhere between December of 71 & filing of 71 taxes (that would be April 72), two brand new cars were purchased. There were no loans, they purchased in cash.

From Skyjack's post, earned income was 3,773 for the entire year of 1971, yet, they bought two brand new cars.

I once looked up the retail prices of these cars, and it was roughly $5000 for the both of them.

3700 + 1300 of phantom income = 5000.

Seems a little odd to me.

Then, she listed a lot of stuff for the 72 return, but omitted the amount in home remodel that was deducted. The 72 return would have been filed around 4/1973...
$12,000 for home remodel spent in 1972.

Here's what you have... a guy spent 5000 cash within months of the crime. He then went on to spend 12k within a year of the crime on his home.

This is stuff where there's a paper trail. What about things where there's no paper trail??

As you can see, he kept purchasing cars in the subsequent years, but I get lost in all of it...

In my mind it looks something like this:
Made $3,000 in 1971. By the end of 1972, he had spent at least $17,000 on new stuff (new home remodel, new cars)...

He later said that he was Dan Cooper and that he buried 178k in a bucket. Invariably, that would mean that if he told the truth, he only walked out with as little as $22,000 of the ransom.

Whether he did it or not, the taxes won't prove anything. It's not like the guy put "Cooper profits" on his return... he confessed in 1995 and in looking at his financial records, you can clearly see he went on a spending spree in the months after the crime.

That's my entire point. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But to impy that $17,000 isn't a significant amount is a bit of stretch, IMO.

Volume of the entire ransom is somewhere around 1.5 square feet.

Correction, dimensions in Centimeters would have been 13 cm wide by 31 cm long, and about 44 cm high. 13x31x44= 17,732 cubic cm... somewhere around there.

Weight would be 21.9 lbs when rounded up slightly.

[skyjack71 0]

Can we get Ckret to come in?

We need to know how Duane got even 5000K between Nov 1971 and Feb 1972, plus living expenses. What crimes during that span remain unsolved with a take of at least 5K.
You know there had to be more k's- because he was trying to woo her back. Had to be at least a 10k take.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

OK, admittedly $17K is a lot more than you had first implied to me in the PM ...although I'm still not sure why the cars had to be bought for cash. no record of a loan is all Jo says...maybe the records weren't kept. A cash receipt would be more convincing than no record of a loan. Jo doesn't really confirm the $12K at all, that seems to be secret, how it got out in the first instance is beyond me - but it certainly doesn't appear to have been accounted for in any way in Duane's tax through inflated income or whatever.

Then again, while $17K is a lot, Christiansen bought a whole new house not long after the hijacking. Hmm.

We only tend to get things from one particular angle on this particular forum and there are other angles out there. The other angles include for example that Duane Weber was in prison under one of his Collins aliases at the time of the hijacking. Not true? I don't know. I'm sure it will be vehemently denied on this particular forum, just as it is given as fact on another. All that tells me is that one can take very little at face value off an internet forum in the absence of any evidence. And I think is why Ckret keeps on getting frustrated here - he keeps on being "expected" or in fact ordered in some instances to go on major investigations on the sniff of a suspicious oilrag.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Can we get Ckret to come in?

We need to know how Duane got even 5000K between Nov 1971 and Feb 1972, plus living expenses. What crimes during that span remain unsolved with a take of at least 5K.
You know there had to be more k's- because he was trying to woo her back. Had to be at least a 10k take.

Jo, this is precisely what I mean... why on earth should ckret run around tracking down other unsolved crimes from that era? can't you see what a colossal waste of time and energy that is to an FBI agent that has plenty current cases on the go?

i'm sure newspaper records are scanned and microfiched in and the info is out there somewhere. like i said before, rather than badgering ckret unfairly you need to get yourself a private investigator.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Quote

Then again, while $17K is a lot, Christiansen bought a whole new house not long after the hijacking. Hmm.

Yes, according to the article, he bought a home for $14,000 (didn't mention if this was outright or with a loan) and then a year later bought some land for $1200 (I'm fairly sure there would be no loan on this).

As for the cars paid in cash... from what I was told, this came from the ex-wife's testimony; the cars were purchased in cash.

I think Jo's just trying to be funny about Ckret solving an old robbery....

Maybe he robbed a bank in late 71 and went on a spending spree. Then, maybe he robbed another one in Fort Collins in Feb 1980 and skipped town.

That's two potential bank robberies that could be finally solved.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I wish Lyle Christiansen were here to verify the stuff written in the article.

Okay, new home purchased for 14k.

Let's assume a standard 20/80 loan. That means $2,800 as a down payment.

About a year later, he comes up with $1500 and purchases (adjacent lot??) some land.

Total outlay: $4,300 MINIMUM.

$15,500 if it was all in cash. The article did not specify, but I would think if it were in cash, the author (who wanted Christiansen to be Cooper) would have stressed it.

If it was a 20/80 loan (pretty much standard in the old days), it would mean:
Loan Amount $11,200
Interest Rate 9% (total WAG, but reasonable)
Monthly Payment: $90.12

How much was he making a month at his job?

I was off by $300... total minimum outlay for his real estate holdings, $4300, not $4000.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I can't do any math on Mayfield because Matt Meyers disappeared after his friend died.

Apparently, at roughly the same time as all of this, Mayfield and a small group started the DZ on leased property.

He already owned a plane for ten years; it wasn't a new purchase as far as I know.

Like I said, cannot do the math because none has been made public.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

although I'm still not sure why the cars had to be bought for cash. no record of a loan is all Jo says...maybe the records weren't kept. A cash receipt would be more convincing than no record of a loan.

When you finanace something you pay interest. Right? There were no loans on the two car purchased in 1972.

Quote

The other angles include for example that Duane Weber was in prison under one of his Collins aliases at the time of the hijacking. Not true? I don't know. I'm sure it will be vehemently denied on this particular forum, just as it is given as fact on another.

Someone before implied this and I will STATE ONE more time. The last time Duane was incarcerated was FROM April of 1966 and his sentence was COMMUTED on MARCH 1968. THIS WAS HIS LAST INCARCERATION.

I have written documentation and tapes - NO ONE knows where Duane was from Nov 1971 til Feb of 1972.

Quote

why Ckret keeps on getting frustrated here - he keeps on being "expected" or in fact ordered in some instances to go on major investigations on the sniff of a suspicious oilrag.

No one has provided me with any solid evidence that Duane was NOT Cooper. NOT one. I am asked if I have looked at the possibility that Duane was NOT Cooper - that I am not being objective.

Requesting something that might ecplain Duane's sudden windfall of money does not means I am "ordering' Ckret to do something.

I am asking the FBI, not just Ckret to prove to me that Duane was NOT Cooper. I am also putting the pros and cons out there just like you. I can back up what I posted about the cars and his employment with paper documentation, tax returns, criminal records, tapes of conversations and other written documents.

I made a post that explains why I had to leave a certain subject alone - and will let it go at that. if the FBI wants to see the records they can do so.

I am not off handly throwing information into the wind.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

"The last time Duane was incarcerated was FROM April of 1966 and his sentence was COMMUTED on MARCH 1968.'

Jo,

Commuted? What were the circumstances?????

It normally requires action by the Governor's office if it is a state prison sentence. It is just one step below a pardon as far as executive clemency goes. Carter pardoned Patty Hearst. Bush commuted Scooter Libby's sentence.

Why did the governor see fit to cut Duane a break? How much was lopped off his sentence? Did he testify or provide evidence against someone to get the break?

There may be some useful info buried in this commutation issue.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Guru312 0]

Quote

can't you see what a colossal waste of time and energy that is to an FBI agent that has plenty current cases on the go?

Well, duh! Those of us following this caper after all these years--I've been doing so since a few hours after it was reported on the news--should feel damned lucky to have Ckret posting and contributing at all!

Jo obviously has some issues with how the FBI has dealt with her but Ckret isn't anyone's researcher or gopher to uncover "stuff" dealing with this DB Cooper mystery.

Let's be a bit more practical, and maybe even considerate, with our resident FBI agent's involvement.

And don't forget, this is *not* an open FBI case. Larry Carr is just a guy as fascinated by the case as the rest of us who happens to be an FBI agent.

In short: let's be real and practical about all of it.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[yamtx73 0]

Quote

"The last time Duane was incarcerated was FROM April of 1966 and his sentence was COMMUTED on MARCH 1968.'

Jo,

Commuted? What were the circumstances?????

It normally requires action by the Governor's office if it is a state prison sentence. It is just one step below a pardon as far as executive clemency goes. Carter pardoned Patty Hearst. Bush commuted Scooter Libby's sentence.

Why did the governor see fit to cut Duane a break? How much was lopped off his sentence? Did he testify or provide evidence against someone to get the break?

There may be some useful info buried in this commutation issue.

commutation n. the act of reducing a sentence resulting from a criminal conviction by the executive clemency of the Governor of the State, or President of the United States in the case of federal crimes. This is not the same as a pardon which wipes out the conviction or the actual or potential charge (as when President Gerald R. Ford pardoned ex-President Richard M. Nixon even without charges having been officially made--a rare instance). A pardon implies either that the conviction was wrong, that there has been complete rehabilitation of the party, or that he/she has lived an exemplary life for many years and deserves to have his/her name cleared in old age. Commutation implies the penalty was excessive or there has been rehabilitation, reform, or other circumstances such as good conduct or community service. Commutation is sometimes used when there is evidence that the defendant was not guilty but it would prove embarrassing to admit an outright error by the courts.

It's entirely possible that the sentence was commuted because Duane wasn't actually guilty of that particular crime and not because the Governor saw fit to cut him a break.

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[377 20]

Jo,

That certainly is possible but unlikely. Was Duane convicted by a jury or did he plead guilty? What crime was he sentenced for?

If he was believed to be innocent by the state, a pardon would have been far more appropriate than a commutation. One erases your conviction, the other does not.

Commutation is often "bought" by helping an important prosecution with evidence that only you can provide. One practical reason they commute in such circumstances is to get "snitches" out of custody ASAP to avoid having them murdered in prison. The alternative is housing them in a SHU (security housing unit) sort of a prison within a prison, where convicted cops, judges, child molesters and snitches reside. I am not saying that there is anything in common with such types. They stay in the SHU simply because the general inmate population wants to harm them or worse.

Tell us more about the crime that put him in and the circumstances that got his sentence commuted.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[low_pull1 2]

,,,,
Wow.... going after one of your own eh?
..............

no, not going after one of my own.... just using the people as an example. Maybe I should have only used one example. Jerry Roulard??

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

FYI, I had some minor errors in my original post. They have been corrected... it had been a while since I did some TVM calculations, so there was a boo-boo.

I have gone and researched mortgage rates for the early 70s. My 9% is a conservative estimate. From what I can tell, the spread was about 160 pts and the 10 yr bond rates averaged about 6.2%. That would equate to a mortgage rate of about 7.8%.

That means his monthly payment would have been less than the $90 on the 20/80 loan. At 8%, his payment would have been about $82 a month.

According to the article, "$212 a month and all you can carry"

That would leave only $129 a month in discretionary income (although its not truly discretionary since he has RE taxes, income taxes, utilities, etc).

There's been some dispute over the $212 amount.

I don't think he'd have made much more than 375 a month (just going off average salaries), but either way, he could cover the payments. The question would be, did he earn enough to save for the outlay?

[low_pull1 2]

1970
Taxable $ 1272.
Earned Income $ 11,132.
Emoloyers:
Cherokee town & Country Club - Atl
Burke Concrete Acc. Burlingame, CA.
Modulus Corporation - Cleveland Ohio.
American Income - Atl.
H-K Corp - ATl.- wife
S.S Kresge - Michigan - wife

Residential Address ; Atlanta, Columbia S.C.,


1971
Taxable $1557.
Earned Income $3733.
Other Income - sell of personal items -$1500
Employers:
H K Corp. S.C. - wife
Singer Co. Ga - wife
American Income - Atl. - D
Robinson Skipper -W
Residential Address: Atl., Columbia S.C.,
This will clarify the 1970 and 1971.


Tax Return 1972
American Income $2387. Tx
American Income $8813. At.
Ray Griffin Ass. $140. Ak
(this one is ODD)
This is the man I tried to find
But do not know why the W-2
would read Little Rock, AK - I
was told Miami.

...............................

any crimes in the above areas around the dates shown?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo,
Commutation is often "bought" by helping an important prosecution with evidence that only you can provide. One practical reason they commute in such circumstances is to get "snitches" out of custody ASAP to avoid having them murdered in prison. The alternative is housing them in a SHU (security housing unit) sort of a prison within a prison, where convicted cops, judges, child molesters and snitches reside. I am not saying that there is anything in common with such types. They stay in the SHU simply because the general inmate population wants to harm them or worse.
377

DOES anyone know how many times I ASKED the FBI about this. I was just told it didn't mean anything. I NEVER thought to share this with the forum or anyone else outside of the FBI - active and inactive.

I TOLD you guys before that Duane WAS involved with somethings not related to the usual criminal activity - but I was hehawed into not mentioning it again.

Now, I will remind everyone of something I got HeHAwed about. James Earl Ray...Duane knew him and so did his wife of the time - and supposedly the two wives shared living quarters for a period of time in Jefferson although I have never verified this...but I do have PROOF of her saying that she knew Ray was set-up.

I do not even remember HOW this came up in a conversation.

Suddenly knowing what a commuted sentence means OPENS up a WHOLE can of WORMS.

There was a man who contacted me and told me Duane WAS taken OUT of PRISON by the FBI - this was unbelievable to me. He got upset because I didn't believe him - he took pictures he sent to me of apts where Duane lived with the wife when he was training for his "assignment". Duane was taken out of the prison - I just didn't believe it - it seemed too unreal. I couldn't make the time lines work. In other words the story just didn't not seem believable.

The one thing that did make me think he was telling the truth was the fact that he put Duane in specific location ---I told him that Duane was in Prison at that time. We argued back and forth about this. I spoke to the Wife of the time and asked her about this location - she said it was only for a couple of months while they were on the run from the FBI - but her accounting of the time was about 6 months off of his. I felt that age and time had run time together for all of us.

He kept telling me they took Duane back to prison because he would have to serve the rest of his time. II thought it was crazy - I thought he was crazy..

It explains how Duane was able to go back to using his real name and how he managed to work for Insurance Companies. It explains why he never went back to prison and it explain the fingerprints - that I have insisted where changed within the system. Carr told me this couldn't happen yet I cited the example of Ray's prints being changed.

I have found out that the print thing did happen - but you will never convince Carr.

Now I feel like this man was telling me the truth - when all I could correlate was his putting Duane in a location that the "wife" forgot to mention which she did verified. This man's story was the only thing I ever found that put Duane in a Parachute. I thought it was fabricated and maybe it was.

He found me - I didn't find him. Maybe he isn't crazy - I just found his story unbelievable...maybe it is.

Duane was also known to have Mafia connections from 1962 to 1966, but I could never verify this - perhaps this is what it was all about. Maybe he was a snitch. Duane's brother was able to put him at the Fontaine Blue in Miami as he was seen there the night before Bay of Pigs all dress up...this was a family member who told the brother about seeing Duane that night...yet Duane would have been on parole from Canon City in CO...he couldn't be in Miami...maybe he was...maybe this explains the prison photo of him in a suit --we could never figure out why that photo was in a prison file.

Might explain why a man threaten me when I contacted him about Duane. This man knew Duane as John Collins. I told him what Duane had said in the hospital and that since he had known him from the past he might be able to help me. He got real upset and told me that "John knew people in high places and If I wanted to be around to play with my grand kids that I needed to destroy everything and never look back." All I did was ask him how he knew Duane and what Duane had told me in the hospital...this was before I went public and when I first started trying to figure out what this was all about in 1996 after my learning who Dan Coooper was. It was strange that this man got very upset and nervous about my inquiry in to Duane's past and the fact that he knew Duane as John.

Guys I know this is long and boring but I am typing as fast as I can - I am not going to try to correct the errors or check the post. I just have to say all of this regardless of HOW CRAZY it make me sound. ALL of this goes back to 1996 - from the beginning of my search and I have come full circle - right back where I started. Commutation - why didn't I look that word up? I know nothing about prisons or criminals (except the one I married) - I am actually a naive person when it comes to these things. Now I think I have reason to be afraid...do I?

It explains why Duane suddenly left Atlanta and went to S.C. when an agent from Mn transferred to the company he was working for. Maybe Duane was afraid because this man would have known him as John Collins. One of Duane's co-workers told me about this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Canopus 0]

Hate to just bust in on this thread after following it so long, but there is a question I've got to ask.

Steve Fossett went down in the Nevada desert. After months of intensive searching in an area I'm told is magnitudes easier to search than the pacific NW, neither he nor his plane have been found. His plane, despite being small is still easier to find than a parachute in the NW.

Shouldn't we be looking for a body if it could ever be found???

Thanks

Can

[n467us 0]

Not sure if there were any unsolved crimes in those areas, but I think after seeing the tax return info we are closer to solving THE crime we are all interested in.

I seriously believe that the FBI is blowing off Duane Weber as a suspect due to "issues" that are classified. There are far too many coincidences in the data that Jo Weber is providing [REMEMBER: She has no direct motive in trying to prove her deceased husband was DB Cooper] I still can't say it's 100% for me, but I think he (Weber) would be in the FBI's sights if not for the annoying fact he is linked to something that the FBI cannot open up. Do not be surprised if the FBI declares "DB Cooper died jumping from the 727 - case closed" and actually puts the lid on this before long. I know that Ckret will be upset if I do not bulletize my evidence to support this statement, so here it is:

>> It's a hunch that I have... that's all.

If we dissect the pieces of the puzzle provided by Jo Weber, if Duane was not DB Cooper, he sure as heck should have been!!

[n467us 0]

After 37 years... good luck! The eruption of Mt. St. Helens could/would have covered up the remains forever if the FBI theory (Cooper screwed himself into the earth) is true.

If this crime were committed TODAY, the search for clues would have yielded the suspect or his body -- unfortuntely infrared detection, GPS navigation, etc was not yet available.

[Canopus 0]

Ok....,

But don't I have a point? Obviously there are no real candidates and when you consider what I posted above this is what makes sense.

We see every kind of suspect, but none of them even meet the most rudimentary form of scrutiny.

Kenny Christenson is probably the best candidate to date, but again....no smoking gun. Cooper probably hit like a sack of potatoes in a region tougher to search than the than the Amazon.

[happythoughts 0]

If you have a DNA sample, what kind of information can you determine from it?

Height - No.

Hair color?
Eye color?
Race?

If you determine eye color from the DNA on the tie and Coopers eye color was said to be brown...

Also, "olive complexion"... narrow down the race a little.

Could this help?