DB Cooper

[low_pull1 2]

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>>"knapsack" was used, which probably was not a widely used term in 1971.<<

Not even close. We used the term "knapsack" in the 60s when I was a Boy Scout . . .

NickD
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Interesting, maybe cooper was an ex Boy Scout?? or involved with scouts in the past.

The next question to ask, who else used the word knapsack.

[low_pull1 2]

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Anybody have more...?
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Military personnel wear ties

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Interesting, maybe cooper was an ex Boy Scout?? or involved with scouts in the past.

Well… since this year membership in the US is 5,970,203, so a reasonable estimate of the # of Scouts from the 50’s through the 70’s would be…. Say….59,000,000…. Good now we’re getting somewhere…. Say half of them are deceased …That narrows it down to a consort of about 29,000,000 individuals!

Ckret,,. get someone on that! While I check out Steven Spielberg, (Film Director/Producer), he was an Eagle Scout!


Sluggo_Monster [Don't blame me... I caught cynicism from quade]

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[happythoughts 0]

Ties.

My uncle owned an insurance agency, one uncle who was a postmaster, one who owned a used car dealership, one shipping manager. All wore ties with tie clips.

All the salesmen that I knew.

My dad worked for the state in agriculture. He was outside in the Florida heat about 95% of his time.
He, and all the other inspectors, had a uniform of khaki pants, khaki shirt, tie, and tie clip.

So, in 1971, anyone with an office job, anyone with a sales job, or a managerial position would probably wear a tie. Also, most people who met the public face to face.

In fact, up until 1991, it was required to wear ties and long sleeve shirts to jobs in IT departments.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Here is my profile of Snowman, no job

I think the list of clip on tie wearerers is complete, I can't imagine who else would stoop so low

I do not know why the forum is suddenly stuck on the tie and referrences to the Kennedy Family.

1. Clip on ties were worn by many in the 60's and 70's. My first husband and father of my children sold insurance - he wore a CLIP-ON TIE. This was of course debit insurance and he was working out in the field...collecting and writing.

2. Clip-on ties were worn in the home office of a very large insurance office in Jacksonville - these guys were Directors, Vice Presidents, etc Yrs 1966- 1967.

3. 1967 - 1971 - all the sales staff wore clip-ons. We had several men working for us - no regular ties.

4. THE CLASP - was Mother-of Pearl. Not considered femine by anyone in 1971 - someone is trying to bring the 90's and 2000's into play ... remember think 1971.

5. I have found the postings about the tie - almost eerie - because of story I was told about a tie in Duane Webers' possession.--it is only a story and not something I can verify without going public and I have not wanted to do that. I have been ridiculed enough for 9 life times.

6. I have only told the story about the tie to a select few individuals - and was afraid that they would think I had lost it. The FBI knows what I was told about the tie.

7. During past election yrs - in the 60's and 70's even politicians have worn clip-on ties. One presidential candidate wore clip-ons and cheap cuff links - when speaking to groups in the open. Also when touring particularly poor districts they did not want to offend the very poorest of the poor during the late 60's. We will use a Kennedy for this example when touring rural Kentucky before announcing that he would be running for president in 1968.

Their platforms (literally) were the backs of trucks , a large wagon pulled into town and decorated or on an out-door stage (remember that air-conditioned building were not the norm). Some admirers would tug at their ties or shirts...hence some took to wearing cheaper things and like the law enforcement wore clip-ons as a safety factor.

8. Now put some REAL life into your conjectures about the tie...it was a throw-down and as others have said - IF Cooper was so careful about everything else -WHY, did he leave the tie?

CKRET: Wake-UP. THINK 1971.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Here is my profile of Snowman, no job

I think the list of clip on tie wearerers is complete, I can't imagine who else would stoop so low

YOU OWE A LOT OF PEOPLE AN APOLOGY FOR THAT STATEMENT! Maybe in todays times - but NOT 1971.
Clip-on ties - regular ties were too hot when Air Conditioning was NOT THE NORM. THINK 1971.

I was dating a Delta pilot from 1971 to 1975 - he wore a Clip-on Tie. Some of you guys make is sound like - well, if you wore a clip-on you were NOBODY. Maybe the FBI had BETTER check out the STORY I told them about the TIE.

Clip-on's did NOT indicate one's standing in the community nor their wealth - nor their education nor their occupation. Sometime it was a matter of convenience and comfort - no air-conditioning and most jobs in 1971 required a tie be worn.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 3]

Quote

Quote

Here is my profile of Snowman, no job

I think the list of clip on tie wearerers is complete, I can't imagine who else would stoop so low

YOU OWE A LOT OF PEOPLE AN APOLOGY FOR THAT STATEMENT! Maybe in todays times - but NOT 1971.

I don't think you understood the Agent's attempt at self deprecating humor because surely there would be times where he, himself, would be wearing one.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Ckret 0]

Quade, keep this up and we'll have to put you on full time.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

All this talk about ties and everyone omits the one crucial thing we know about the tie...

Multiple Male Donors.

Now that everyone and their mother wore clip-on ties in the 60s and 70s, let's figure out how or why there's so many donors on the tie.

First question:
Does multiple male donors mean two, or does it mean 5?

How many donors are we talking about?

The question is important if we're to figure out "why."

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

To add a little bit more to Safe's question. Did the FBI determine the "multipal DNA" to be related? Father, son/sons this would tell us somthing about the family aspect if it was. I think this is a little more info needed thing.

[BigSky 2]

More facts about the tie would be a huge help. I still think the key to this entire case is if the money got to Tina’s bar by person or by natural float.

If we could use DNA to rule out one story of the money being placed there by someone then that would be great......however I don’t think the info the public is being given about the tie is enough to convince anyone.

Is there more info about the tie???

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Here it comes....

Wait for it.....

Get ready.....

Ckret says; "I can niether confirm nor deny whether there is more information about the tie."


Oh well!

So it goes.



Sluggo_Monster

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[snowmman 3]

since the possible reality already has 14 grassy knolls, the obvious 15th grassy knoll if you were writing the science fiction story, is Tosaw.

[snowmman 3]

I'm just going off on a tangent cause I had a nice cup of coffee.

Now that we all have new bifocals (I hope everyone read the obits like I did up to 2006 so I don't have to mention that for a son) ...but here's the difference between joining the whuffo gang and being in snow's gang

whuffo gang who's afraid to shoot
-wannabe criminals. You won't see them pulling out fingernails for fun to pass the time of day.
-only need one set of balls. rest whuffos. Too many balls usually spoil the culture.
-start a new business afterwards.
-do searches where during radio interviews you always hem and haw about how much it costs you
-fun to offer big rewards cause you don't have to worry about it!
-write a book but privately publish it so you don't get a lot of scrutiny from those fussy editors and proofreaders
-always get your story out to the press...sell sell sell
-with your private book publish, you get to be fuzzy about how many of the damn things you sell. Hey I'm just minting money!


now if you're in snow's gang, you've only got a 50% survival probability since we shoot half the folks afterwards to double the success probability! And went in with the AK's we got from ckret blazing!...just kidding hah-hah I love a good comic book.

[377 20]

I wore a clip-on tie and sometimes even a tie clasp in 71. It was all about convenience. I was a law student in the early 70s, doing an internship in the public defenders office in Oakland CA representing strung out junkies and streetwalkers. Fashion was not high on my list of priorities. I saw plenty of clip-on ties and tie bars/clasps back in those days. Sometimes the non custody defendants would wear them trying to look well dressed and straightened up to Judge Dread at a sentencing hearing. Didn't work. He knew the long sleeved white shirt was just covering fresh track marks.

Cooper's use of a clip on tie and or clasp in 71 is unremarkable. Everyone wore them, even junkies!

Drug and or gambling habits drove many of the low level criminals to robbery. They were just looking for a few hundred in a street stickup or residential burglary. Cooper seemed to have needed big money, not just a few hundred for his next fix. Could be gambling debts or some other big money sucker... alimony, child support, motgage foreclosure? What would make a guy need $200K right away? I don't think he was executing a long term retirement plan. I think he was addressing a current need, just my hunch. Any ideas? it might help us narrow the search. I am beginning to think Cooper did get info from Boeing, perhaps not directly. I have emailed Don Kirlin to ask him about details on Boeing 727 in flight stair deployment data. He is an airline pilot (737s) and also researched the hell out of the 727 door/stair issue to get FAA approval for 727 jumps at WFFC. Hope he replies.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

HUH?

"Merda taurorum animas conturbit"

Sluggo_Monster

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[low_pull1 2]

SLUG,

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Quote
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Interesting, maybe cooper was an ex Boy Scout?? or involved with scouts in the past.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well… since this year membership in the US is 5,970,203, so a reasonable estimate of the # of Scouts from the 50’s through the 70’s would be…. Say….59,000,000…. Good now we’re getting somewhere…. Say half of them are deceased …That narrows it down to a consort of about 29,000,000 individuals!

Ckret,,. get someone on that! While I check out Steven Spielberg, (Film Director/Producer), he was an Eagle Scout!
.....................

Ok, Maybe you want to talk about how many people wear ties.... the forum is yours.

FYI... the number of people that have been caught from any approach or ange is still ZERO!
cket, please get on that right away for SLUG. Its his forum.

[happythoughts 0]

Is there a point ?

[mark 102]

Quote

Quote

Cooper did want the airstairs down at take-off, when he learned they could not be down for take off he said, "thats ok, the cockpit can do it after we take off." This was wrong on his part, the air stairs can only be lowered from the rear of the aircraft.

Is the ramp on a C-130 controlled from the cockpit, from a station near the ramp, or both?

Mark

Replying to my own post, a first, but not the first time I'll fail to buy beer:

I learned today that on a C-130, the ramp can be lowered from a station near the back as well as from the cockpit.

Mark

[377 20]

Yeah, flew in Earl Cherry's ancient 1956 vintage C 130A at WFFC. It had a ramp control aft.

I was really scared watching his crew (with no safety harnesses and chuteless) walk within inches of the edge of the gate during climb. Just young kids acting macho but it actually made my stomach churn big time. One big bump and they would have been out.

No 727 ever had cockpit control of the rear stairs. Also, as I read the manual, the controls are on the outside of the pressure bulkhead so you could not activate the stairs unless the plane was depressurized.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mark 102]

Quote

Yeah, flew in Earl Cherry's ancient 1956 vintage C 130A at WFFC. It had a ramp control aft. ...

No 727 ever had cockpit control of the rear stairs. Also, as I read the manual, the controls are on the outside of the pressure bulkhead so you could not activate the stairs unless the plane was depressurized.

Yes, I knew that about 727s. However, my speculation (since everybody else gets to speculate) is that Cooper was familiar with NB6 or similar from work as a USAF loadmaster who worked some HALO jumps as the loadmaster, but not as a jumper. If so, he would have expected to find ramp controls at the rear, and would expect the cockpit to also have ramp controls; he would be acquainted with the notion that certain flap/gear/airspeed configurations would be needed for parachute drops; he would comfortable with wearing a bail-out rig; and he would have a poor idea of the preparation required for a successful HALO jump.

Mark

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

low_pull1,

Did I offend you or are you just "having a go" at me?

If I offended you, it was unintentional.

If you're just "having a go at me", then it was intentional.
No, seriously, I did not mean to offend, I was just thinking out loud after about two hours looking at Boy Scout information.

Sluggo_Monster (or SLUG if you prefer)

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[quade 3]

Guys --

Snowman will be taking a 30 day vacation from the thread.

Do yourselves a favor and stay on topic and non-personal in your postings.

Tip of the week. If I have to come in and clean up a large number of posts . . . you're going on vacation.

PS, if you reply to a post I have to clean up, then that post and all the ones relating to it also go. Don't waste your and my time by replying to stuff that's going to just get recycled.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Guys --
PS, if you reply to a post I have to clean up, then that post and all the ones relating to it also go. Don't waste your and my time by replying to stuff that's going to just get recycled.

I hope I wasn't the reason for all of that - I have been in the attic for the last hour - REALLY in the ATTIC. I went off line - after I made a post, so I hope I am not responsible for all the problems.

When I made that post and I was very sad. It left me remembering somethings - I stored in the attic when I remarried - They were so dry they were crumbling, but the papers had been stored in plastic.

I thought maybe there might be something I had forgot about.

SURPRISE I found the letter of resignation Duane wrote in 1980 and a letter he wrote to a friend who was living in WA.

The money found by Brian Ingram was found on Feb. 10 1980. Duane's letter to a friend in WA is dated Feb. 24th 1980. In this letter he states that he is resigning from the company and talks about "fading off into the dust".

I have mentioned before to the FBI and in the forum that the two things were very close together. This is MORE than co-incident. A man resigns a very good job 2 wks after Brian Ingram finds that money.

I wish I knew the date of a special on a program aired about Cooper and the found money. Duane left CO. very quickly after that...remember that he made arrangements so I could not see that program.

This is too co-incidental...but I respected my marriage to a very wornderful man - and stored my Cooper things...but, I have them out now and what I remembered was dead on.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

The Quade cleanup process is actually refreshing, like waking up and finding no trace of yesterdays bad acts. A rewind and erase button for your dropzone.com life. Oh how I wish such a device existed in real life.

The Cooper as loadmaster idea is intriguing. He had some aviation connection, by work or by reading or both. Ckret has convinced me that Cooper was not a skydiver. Coopers inattention to the 727's transponder tells me he was not a pilot. He had not worked on 727s or he would have had more knowledge about ventral door/stair controls. Loadmasters are always fretting about CG (center of gravity), but in an empty plane Cooper wouldn't have given it any thought. There is some aviation job that makes it all fit, but I just cannot figure it out. I don't think he was aircrew. Not an A&P mechanic either. Tech writer? Draftsman?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.