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DB Cooper

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(edited)
4 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

When did the FBI announce they had the tie? I know in 1988 it was still a secret when the Unsolved Mysteries came out. I feel like it was around the 2000’s. 

I should know this one, but I don't. Until 2008-09 I didn't know anything more about Cooper than the average Northwest guy. First time I heard about it was when Agent Larry Carr made his famous pitch for assistance. 

The FBI has a partial DNA profile from the tie, which I think is the most important evidence from it. The tie itself is so common that linking anyone to it is next to impossible. No one can even establish a chain of evidence on it. 

What I mean by 'chain of evidence' is that despite the particles and other material found on the tie, there is another fact going:  Cooper is most likely dead, even if he got away with it. So there is no way to positively link a suspect to a tie.

For example, let's say a suspect is brought forward whose work definitely could have resulted in the material on the tie being put ON the tie by doing that particular work. It still means nothing unless you can prove that the tie belonged to that person. However...if you could PROVE that suspect was Cooper...then you could reasonably say that the tie probably belonged to him. 

You see the problem? The tie cannot be used to prove a suspect was Cooper. It can only be associated with your proven suspect...once you prove beyond reasonable doubt he WAS Cooper. It's a merry go round at best. 

The only good evidence the tie provides for proving anything is the partial DNA sample taken from it. You can use a DNA sample from YOUR suspect to narrow down whether he may have been Cooper. According to Seattle FBI agent Fred Gutt, the sample the FBI has...when compared to a suspect's DNA profile...cannot prove that suspect is Cooper. But it CAN eliminate him from contention. 

Too bad the FBI won't release the DNA results...
If they ever do, maybe I could get some sponsor to pony up the money it would take to run Lyle Christiansen's DNA sample against the FBI's result. 

I contacted a company in Seattle a few years ago who does this type of work. When I told them what the FBI had, they said yes...they could do the comparison and get the proper results, but it is not your ordinary, out of the $100 box type of DNA test. It's expensive and can run between four and eight thousand bucks. If I ever get rich, I might try it with Lyle's sample, which is still sealed here in our offices. 

But I am not holding my breath the FBI will ever release their data, although they should, or maybe enter it into a database somewhere for public access. You can pay for the test, but you need something to compare it to. And only the FBI can provide that. 

LATE EDIT: I spent most of the day wrapping up my notes on the movie script for the upcoming Cooper movie. I do this by highlighting sections of the script and adding side notes. Adobe Acrobat, etc. You click on a highlighted section and see the notes in a text bubble off to the side. Very handy. 

Anyway, I finished all that up (mostly correcting some historical errors by the script writer) and sent it on to the production companies just now. This is known as 'doing Bruce Smith's job' I guess. There is a second person involved in all this, and he will allowed to view the SECOND draft of the script for his own notes, and then both of us will work on the final version together. 

No worries. This isn't the first time I've worked on a script. I wrote one for Pilot Down, Presumed Dead the famous novel by Margorie Phleger, and converted one of my own books to a script for possible future use, my first-mission-to-Mars book, The 13th Day of Christmas. Seems like old times around here this week, running that Celtx (script writing) software. This is actually fun. Too bad Bruce turned down the job. Now me and that 'other person' have to do his job for him LOL. IMHO Smith is dumb as a bag of hammers. 

Off to bed now. Super Bowl tomorrow. I've had chicken pieces soaking in teriyaki sauce for two days in the fridge, ready for the BBQ. It will be great. Greg the Techie Guy and his main squeeze Judy are showing up. Veggie dip platters prepped by Gayla, and a few other things ready for the game. Cooper sometimes takes a break, even around here. Whatever you have planned for Super Bowl Sunday, just make sure it includes fun. B)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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In 1991 Calame and Rhodes mentioned Cooper's tie.. trying to link it to McCoy.

"The most compelling evidence, said Rhodes, a former federal probation officer, is that McCoy's mother-in-law identified objects Cooper left on the plane as McCoy's. The items were a mother-of-pearl tie clasp and a clip-on tie."

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/20785219/some_suspect_richard_mccoy_of_being/

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(edited)
2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

In 1991 Calame and Rhodes mentioned Cooper's tie.. trying to link it to McCoy.

"The most compelling evidence, said Rhodes, a former federal probation officer, is that McCoy's mother-in-law identified objects Cooper left on the plane as McCoy's. The items were a mother-of-pearl tie clasp and a clip-on tie."

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/20785219/some_suspect_richard_mccoy_of_being/

Thanks Flyjack.  Ok, that saved me some time.  Page 35 in their book talks about it.  It looks like the book came out October 1, 1991. The FBI held onto that piece of info for 20 years. 

A6085F74-048E-493E-8AB1-1A9CD0C9B740.jpeg

Edited by CooperNWO305

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(edited)

Here is my question: These guys claim the ex-mother in law ID'd the clasp as Cooper's. Okay, fine. Then why wasn't the mother in law interviewed by the media about this? It would be an easy matter to find out who she was, and find her. And...if this story is true, why didn't the Feds go to McCoy in prison and offer him a deal for a confession to the Cooper crime, rather than continuing to spend time, money, and agent manpower hunting down all those other suspects?

That's a fairly 'hot' lead if you ask me. And not that it matters, but McCoy's alleged mom in law (ex) isn't the ONLY person who has put that tie clasp to a person. Back in late 2009, I did a cold-call interview with the lady in the picture below. Her name is Dawn Androsko. She is *alleged* accomplice Bernie Geestman's sister and lived on Fox Island, Washington. I will quote over a portion of her interview, which was witnessed by her grandson, Jonathan McCauley:

dawnjsalon.jpg.6e656d9a52911f2403e7e7433154b95e.jpg
 

Quote

From the book:
 

At first, I avoided mentioning the possible connection between Christiansen and D.B. Cooper and I just told her I was doing a biography of Christiansen and wanted to clear up some points on his life. After my interview with her brother, I’d decided this was a better approach, since bringing up the Cooper case sometimes put people on the defensive. I asked whether she had received a $5,000 cash loan from Kenny in early 1972.

“Yes. He gave it to Bernie and then Bernie gave it to me,” she said. “I used it to put a down payment on a house in Buckley. Kenny said I could have four years to pay it back, but I paid it back in two.”

“How do you think Kenny got the money?” I asked.

“His job I suppose,” she said. “He told everyone he made good money at Northwest.”

“At the time he gave the loan,” I said, “he was taking home less than six hundred a month.”

She was mildly surprised at this. “Well, I don’t know. He just told people he made a lot of money with the airline.” She pointed to a very nice clock on the wall. “He gave me that as a gift after one of his trips to Japan.”

It was an expensive-looking, handmade cuckoo clock. I asked if she had received the clock after 1971. She said yes.

I took out a photo that I had downloaded from the Seattle F.B.I.’s website entry on the D.B. Cooper case. It was a large picture of the black J.C. Penney tie with the mother-of-pearl tie clasp that the hijacker had left behind before he jumped. It was not labeled or anything, just a simple picture. I pushed the photo across the table. “Does this mean anything to you?” I said.

“Well, I don’t know about the tie,” she replied, “but I saw Kenny wearing that tie tack a couple of times.”

“Are you sure?” I said.

“Oh, yes. He had one just like it.”

I could hardly believe my ears. No one had ever linked the tie or the clip to a specific person before, and Dawn had just dropped an ID on it as casually as anything. And she had done it before she understood the significance of it. I hadn’t told her anything yet about Kenny being a suspect in the hijacking.

It was time to break the ice. I told her straight out that Kenny Christiansen was being investigated for possibly being involved in the Cooper hijacking. I discussed some of the basic evidence that had come to light, such as Kenny being in the paratroops, and the unexplained spending.

Instead of a shocked reaction, she smiled. “Could be true,” she said. “It would explain a lot of things people wondered about Kenny.”

I asked her if she had ever suspected that Kenny Christiansen could be D.B. Cooper.

“Yes. I wasn’t the only one who wondered about it either,” she said.

“I don’t understand,” I said. “You mean other people suspected he was the hijacker, too?”

“Friends. Some of us were friends back then up in Bonney Lake. We did things together. Now everybody’s gone, or moved,” she explained. “Kenny never talked about the hijacking. I always thought that was strange because everyone talked about it for months, and he worked for the airline, so you would think he might have an opinion. But he never said a word about it.”

“Some of the people he worked with at Northwest said the same thing,” I said. “Why didn’t any of you ask him if he was the guy?”

“Oh, we couldn’t do that. It would have been bad manners,” she said. “He worked for the airline and he was a nice man. No one was going to ask something like that to his face. Besides, he didn’t look like a criminal. You said he was a paratrooper in the Army?” 

“Yes, ma’am.”

“Funny he never said anything about it. How sure are you that Kenny was D.B. Cooper?” She said.

“Maybe sixty, maybe seventy percent,” I said. “The investigation is still ongoing.”

“So that’s where he got all that money,” she said. “Figures.”
(end of excerpt, from the final corrected version for re-release later)

 

(Later in the interview, she testified that Kenny owned a toupee, but only wore it very occasionally, and just socially, not at work. This toupee story was also verified by both KC's friend Helen Jones, as well as Bernie Geestman's ex-wife Margaret.)

Now people can take all this with a grain of salt if they wish, but notice I don't hold back on sources if I think revealing those sources is important. These are real people I interviewed for their testimony, using real names. In the book itself, I disguised some of the names because it was an ongoing investigation, but when we released the final report on KC, I gave everyone's real names. However, when Bernie Geestman (her brother) went on Decoded, they used his real name. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

Witness recall for specific tie clasp belonging to another well after the incident is really sketchy...  I can't even recall my own tie clasps or ties..

I give it evidentiary weight of 0.0000000001 

Show them a pic and they say yeah thats it... has no weight. 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Here is my question: These guys claim the ex-mother in law ID'd the clasp as Cooper's. Okay, fine. Then why wasn't the mother in law interviewed by the media about this? It would be an easy matter to find out who she was, and find her. And...if this story is true, why didn't the Feds go to McCoy in prison and offer him a deal for a confession to the Cooper crime, rather than continuing to spend time, money, and agent manpower hunting down all those other suspects?

That's a fairly 'hot' lead if you ask me. And not that it matters, but McCoy's alleged mom in law (ex) isn't the ONLY person who has put that tie clasp to a person. Back in late 2009, I did a cold-call interview with the lady in the picture below. Her name is Dawn Androsko. She is *alleged* accomplice Bernie Geestman's sister and lived on Fox Island, Washington. I will quote over a portion of her interview, which was witnessed by her grandson, Jonathan McCauley:

dawnjsalon.jpg.6e656d9a52911f2403e7e7433154b95e.jpg
 

(Later in the interview, she testified that Kenny owned a toupee, but only wore it very occasionally, and just socially, not at work. This toupee story was also verified by both KC's friend Helen Jones, as well as Bernie Geestman's ex-wife Margaret.)

Now people can take all this with a grain of salt if they wish, but notice I don't hold back on sources if I think revealing those sources is important. These are real people I interviewed for their testimony, using real names. In the book itself, I disguised some of the names because it was an ongoing investigation, but when we released the final report on KC, I gave everyone's real names. However, when Bernie Geestman (her brother) went on Decoded, they used his real name. 

I’ll summarize my opinion of McCoy being Cooper: It’s a joke. Case closed. 

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1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I’ll summarize my opinion of McCoy being Cooper: It’s a joke. Case closed. 

It is interesting,, why would Calame and Rhodes write that book and push the McCoy narrative, they aren't dumb and had inside knowledge...

I can't help but think they knew Cooper wasn't McCoy but were acting with ulterior motives.

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Witness recall for specific tie clasp belonging to another well after the incident is really sketchy...  I can't even recall my own tie clasps or ties..

I give it evidentiary weight of 0.0000000001 

Show them a pic and they say yeah thats it... has no weight. 

 

I never asked her anything about the hijacking or the clip. I asked her if the picture meant anything to her....she volunteered the rest. Big difference. Doing what you suggest would be called 'leading the witness'. I tried hard not to lead witnesses in my interviews, or even say the truth on why I was asking about Kenny, at least at first. You get better, and more honest results that way. If what she says is true, she probably saw Kenny wearing that tie clasp dozens of times, which could be why she remembered it. 

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10 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I never asked her anything about the hijacking or the clip. I asked her if the picture meant anything to her....she volunteered the rest. Big difference. Doing what you suggest would be called 'leading the witness'. I tried hard not to lead witnesses in my interviews, or even say the truth on why I was asking about Kenny, at least at first. You get better, and more honest results that way. If what she says is true, she probably saw Kenny wearing that tie clasp dozens of times, which could be why she remembered it. 

Really, she remembers KC'c exact tie clip 40 years later.. I own several and can't remember them after a few years..

Maybe she recalls a tie clip, witness recall is the least reliable evidence..

If you are there to talk about KC and present a pic of the tie and clasp it isn't a leap for a "witness" to assume it is significant. People are very unreliable, they make mistakes and lie all the time. 

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Really, she remembers KC'c exact tie clip 40 years later.. I own several and can't remember them after a few years..

Maybe she recalls a tie clip, witness recall is the least reliable evidence..

If you are there to talk about KC and present a pic of the tie and clasp it isn't a leap for a "witness" to assume it is significant. People are very unreliable, they make mistakes and lie all the time. 

A blanket write-off of all people as witnesses because they can be unreliable isn't really supporting your case. If that were true, court proceedings would never call witnesses in the first place. 

You interview people. You try to do it fairly, take notes and pictures, judge their responses. Calculate the results. It's all you can do. You keep forgetting I didn't ask her to identify anything. I just pushed the picture over to her and asked her if it meant anything to her. That's about as fair as you can get. Her response, and the comments that followed, are just a record of what she said. I took basically the same approach with everyone I interviewed in the case, all over the Northwest. 

Some of these interview techniques were taught to me by Skipp Porteous. 

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28 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

A blanket write-off of all people as witnesses because they can be unreliable isn't really supporting your case. If that were true, court proceedings would never call witnesses in the first place. 

You interview people. You try to do it fairly, take notes and pictures, judge their responses. Calculate the results. It's all you can do. You keep forgetting I didn't ask her to identify anything. I just pushed the picture over to her and asked her if it meant anything to her. That's about as fair as you can get. Her response, and the comments that followed, are just a record of what she said. I took basically the same approach with everyone I interviewed in the case, all over the Northwest. 

Some of these interview techniques were taught to me by Skipp Porteous. 

My "case" is fine in this context..  IMO, This is so weak it has no value, that is my point. Some evidence is stronger than other evidence, recall is considered the weakest, let alone 40 year old recall.

If I was a juror, you went to this woman to talk about KC being Cooper and you pushed a pic of a tie/clasp to her and asked "if the picture meant anything".. she said yes 40 years ago KC wore that clasp..  As a rational evaluation, I'd say BS.. She may remember a tie clasp, maybe she just told you what she thought you wanted to hear but no way she could ID it.

It just is not believable. A prosecutor using a witness with an unbelievable claim discredits their case.

Look at the case for Reca, it is based on 100% personal "recall". Just because people make a claim doesn't make it true.

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(edited)
39 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Kaye also found a pin hole where a tie pin had been placed for years prior to the hijacking... funny how no one remembers that...

I found a vintage Penny's ad with the Towncraft Snapper Tie $1.50 (#3) and assorted Cuff Link, Tie Bar and Tie Tack sets... $5.00

 

pennysad3.jpeg.e9a3baeaec9a65e636f6a9babf77cf3d.jpeg

pennysad2.jpeg.dbe886ce3fa5c14f3739dec274257463.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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32 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

My "case" is fine in this context..  IMO, This is so weak it has no value, that is my point. Some evidence is stronger than other evidence, recall is considered the weakest, let alone 40 year old recall.

If I was a juror, you went to this woman to talk about KC being Cooper and you pushed a pic of a tie/clasp to her and asked "if the picture meant anything".. she said yes 40 years ago KC wore that clasp..  As a rational evaluation, I'd say BS.. She may remember a tie clasp, maybe she just told you what she thought you wanted to hear but no way she could ID it.

It just is not believable. A prosecutor using a witness with an unbelievable claim discredits their case.

Look at the case for Reca, it is based on 100% personal "recall". Just because people make a claim doesn't make it true.

Well, let's just say her testimony became more interesting when she got around to the part about Kenny (through her brother) loaning her five thousand dollars only five months after the hijacking... B)

When her brother got wind of all this, he called her up and told her to take it all back. She refused, but also wouldn't go on TV against her brother. 

Nobody's asking you to believe any of the testimony by the people who ended up in that report to the FBI. It is what it is. It's all available as a free download in its entirety at the main AB website. I let people judge for themselves. 

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, let's just say her testimony became more interesting when she got around to the part about Kenny (through her brother) loaning her five thousand dollars only five months after the hijacking... B)

When her brother got wind of all this, he called her up and told her to take it all back. She refused, but also wouldn't go on TV against her brother. 

Nobody's asking you to believe any of the testimony by the people who ended up in that report to the FBI. It is what it is. It's all available as a free download in its entirety at the main AB website. I let people judge for themselves. 

It is just a matter evaluating evidence.. I have the same variability with Hahneman evidence. Hijacking a 727 for ransom and jumping out the rear stairs carries weight. Latin and swarthy carries weight. Hahneman also said , "don't try anything funny" Cooper said "no funny stuff.. it is interesting and worth noting but carries little weight..

Hahneman was estranged from his family and showed up for Christmas 1971. He gave his young son fishing gear claiming it was from the far East. Hahneman was a frequent liar so it was unlikely from the Far East. The Raleigh cigarette coupon book has fishing tackle in it.. This is interesting and worth noting but carries virtually no weight.

raleighcouponfishing.jpg.9403a013a8ab56af69250bf266ba4f65.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Quote

'It is just a matter evaluating evidence.. I have the same variability with Hahneman evidence. Hijacking a 727 for ransom and jumping out the rear stairs carries weight. Latin and swarthy carries weight. Hahneman also said , "don't try anything funny" Cooper said "no funny stuff.. it is interesting and worth noting but carries little weight..

Hahneman was estranged from his family and showed up for Christmas 1971. He gave his young son fishing gear claiming it was from the far East. Hahneman was a frequent liar so it was unlikely from the Far East. The Raleigh cigarette coupon book has fishing tackle in it.. This is interesting and worth noting but carries virtually no weight...'

They DO carry some weight to an extent. And so does witness testimony. Both you and I have something in common. Our main critics are not the public, or the media, but people who have an ax to grind in the Cooper case, or are promoting their own suspects, or who would be made to look like fools...or people whose world would basically collapse if it were proven that one of us was right. What people? Georger, Robert99, Bruce Smith, EU, and Shutter are good examples. Plus some of their followers and lackeys. (by 'lackeys' I mean the people who post to Bruce Smith's website anonymously with their filthy comments, sometimes posing as known figures in the Cooper case, aka 'Marla' at Bruce's site.) 

db8.jpg.35e1fc71b7fdafd2b92b822fedea8296.jpg

I have been through many interviews regarding the investigation into KC. And it the most difficult thing to explain to people how the investigation went. You can't do it. How can you make people understand what it is like to do seven trips at 250 miles each way, over two mountain passes each way, just to interview Margie Geestman? And trips practically everywhere else in the Pacific Northwest that went on for about a year, just to interview and chase leads, take notes, shoot pictures, talk to people? You can't. They wouldn't understand. You had to BE there, I tell folks when they ask. 
GeestmanRanchInterview2.jpg.b4c40ec85b3c41db13c8635d930ef0e4.jpg

I thought it was over after the last evidentiary interview with Margie Geestman and her friend Helen Jones. Book was out, Decoded show was out, and I figured I would never get any further. Then...Bernie Geestman's own family sees all that stuff and starts approaching me. His niece goes on the British movie and tells them she saw Kenny creating the phony bomb just two weeks prior to the hijacking. It took me three years to get her beyond that initial interview I did with she and her family down at that restaurant in Sumner, WA. That was when she told me she was willing to come forward, but not while her 'Uncle Bernie' was alive. Patience was key. She finally did. 
SimpleStory2.jpg.0540630480c2724c30a9831db5bfb0d0.jpg

The year before, Troy Bentz, an engineer out of the WA DC area, contacts me out of the blue and tells me that in August 2016, about a month after the FBI closes the case, that some senior FBI agent named John Jarvis had indicated to he and two of his friends at a baseball game that KC was known to be the hijacker, and the FBI had closed the case because they knew KC was dead. I was also on the phone with him several times besides all the emails. What the hell can I do with that kind of testimony? But he provided not just HIS own name, but the names and backgrounds of the witnesses. All three of them had security clearances with the US government, and worked for the government. Jarvis himself was a 15-year veteran of the FBI and worked out of Quantico in Behavioral Profiling. I did not know what to do with that except keep a record. We have a boatload of files about the investigation. All the interviews, the pictures, Lyle Christiansen's DNA sample, records, the list goes on and on and takes up a lot of space. Will we ever be able to prove that Kenneth P. Christiansen was actually D.B. Cooper beyond a reasonable doubt? Good question. 
OfficeShotJarvis.jpg.8245eba7aa56168984b39d7f85701096.jpg

The answer is NO. It is unlikely we will be able to do that. Some of the key witnesses are dead is the main reason. You reach a point where you have done all you can as just one person, one small company with limited resources. Who WERE these people, what were they really like, and did they really pull off the only unsolved hijacking in US history? We will probably never know for sure. 
Geestmanwedding.jpg.29b183837486783374014a96ef12b8f5.jpg

Ever since I heard from that Minnow Films cut ten hours of footage they shot down to 84 minutes for their documentary, The Mystery of D.B. Cooper, I have put my money on the upcoming movie naming KC as the hijacker, Into The Blast. I just added my own notes to the script, accepted another four-figure option payment, which I plan to blow on a big Cooper Campout this summer. I'm placing my final bet on this movie. What bet? I'm betting that the only chance left to prove my case one way or another, (and frankly I can accept the results whether it goes my way or not) will somehow come from that movie. I figure it will bring someone, anyone, out of the woodwork who can definitely prove the case one way or another. People came forward as a result of the Decoded show and the book. The movie will reach many more people. Maybe something will come of it, maybe not. But I can assure everyone of two things. First, I can accept the results, no matter what they end up to be. And second...I will be more than happy to extricate myself (at last!) from Cooperland and move on to another phase in my life. Was KC the guy? Did Geestman talk him into it, and help him? Was Margie Geestman forced to keep quiet for years until I came along?

How in the hell do I know? B)

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Spelling Corrections

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23 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I never asked her anything about the hijacking or the clip. I asked her if the picture meant anything to her....she volunteered the rest. Big difference. Doing what you suggest would be called 'leading the witness'. I tried hard not to lead witnesses in my interviews, or even say the truth on why I was asking about Kenny, at least at first. You get better, and more honest results that way. If what she says is true, she probably saw Kenny wearing that tie clasp dozens of times, which could be why she remembered it. 

Who was the witness that you left all of your evidence with while you went and ate lunch. Then, after she looked at all of your evidence, you went back and interviewed her?

No way that you get "better and more honest" results that way.

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(edited)

I do not believe that Richard McCoy was Cooper. However, I have always thought that if McCoy had not gotten caught, and we were sitting here today talking about two unsolved hijackings instead of just the one, that most people would probably be of the thought that they were done by the same person. Now, maybe there was enough there that the FBI could have determined that not to be the case. Obviously there would be nothing in the way of fingerprints or physical evidence to link the two. But it's something interesting to think about. How differently would we look at the Cooper case? I wonder how much circumstantial evidence a guy like Blevins (and others) could round up to tie their guy to both hijackings?

I've brought this up in the past and most people didn't agree with me. Oh well. 

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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ParrotVol asks:

Quote

'Who was the witness that you left all of your evidence with while you went and ate lunch. Then, after she looked at all of your evidence, you went back and interviewed her?

No way that you get "better and more honest" results that way...'

You are talking about Helen Jones of Sumner, WA. She was the lady who knew both the Geestmans' and Kenny Christiansen very well. She was one of the last people I interviewed prior to the release of the Decoded show. And your question is reasonable, so I will answer:

Jones was the woman that Margie Geestman told me I should talk to. Margie said this in her final interview, the one where after months of dodging and pointing to other people she knew as Cooper...she finally admitted she had been referring to Kenny all along. She was lifelong friends with him she said, and admitted she was trying to protect him. See picture:
kennymargie94color.jpg.a2f2d156527951304b47828e1b8cafa1.jpg
She was not a bad person, but what most likely happened (IF KC and Bernie G were involved) is that she was an unwilling accomplice. We already know that she did not know what KC and her husband were doing, or where they went beyond the trailer at the shop property in Oakville, WA - which Bernie Geestman had parked there a few weeks prior to the hijacking. We know the two men got that far, because Bernie told Margie he was taking out the trailer on a camping trip (over Thanksgiving?). We also know that Bernie made no mention that KC was going with him. We found that out through Helen Jones later. 

The reason I say that Margie was an 'unwilling accomplice' is because we believe she didn't find out what the two men had (*allegedly*) done until after her husband had returned home. That was either the Monday or Tuesday after the hijacking occurred. (Side note:  When Bernie came home, he also brought the trailer with him back to Bonney Lake.)

So...when I return to Auburn after the final interview with Margie, I look up Helen Jones. I find her in the phone book and call her. I ask her if I can speak to her about Kenny Christiansen. Yes, she knows him. I give my usual spiel, which is that I am doing a biographical book on KC's life. Sure, she will see me she says. 

Five minutes later, she calls me back. 'Why do you want to talk to me about Kenny again?' I admit the truth, that he's being looked at in the DB Cooper case. She becomes angry, but still agrees to see me. 

When I show up, she answers the door with this right away:  "You have a lot of nerve thinking those things about Kenny. He was a real nice guy." But she lets me in anyway. I place what files I have on the dining table and that's when I suggested I would go to lunch for an hour and a half and then return. So I did that. 

When I come back, her daughter is there as well. She knew Kenny, but not as well as her mother. We sit down and start to talk. I ask questions about what was going on the week of the hijacking. Mrs Jones tells me that Margie Geestman showed up (as usual) for Thanksgiving dinner at her house. And that Margie was highly upset that Bernie had taken off to go camping in his new Airstream trailer, which he had left parked at some shop and property they owned down in Oakville. SEE MAP OF OAKVILLE:
IfTheyDid.jpg.3f3776f857a1643721be78f46c3bc014.jpg

Jones, much more subdued now, has a few things to add to the case. She says that KC told her about six weeks prior to the hijacking that he wouldn't be showing up as usual for Thanksgiving dinner at her house, because he was planning to fly back to Minneapolis to visit family. But we know that KC didn't go back east that year. All of his family have testified to that. Absolutely not. So where did he go?

Jones says that she saw KC about a month AFTER the hijacking at the Sumner Laundromat, and that when she said they missed him at Thanksgiving, he let it slip he was with Bernie Geestman. But when she asked him where they went camping, KC dodged the question. She said that at the time she didn't think much about it. 

Later, she also confirmed that KC did smoke Raleighs, "I know because he saved the coupons," she said. This is a woman who had absolutely no motivation to lie about anything, but after a while she realized that both Bernie and KC, two people she knew very well, were probably up to no good. Remember...she was given the opportunity to see all the other evidence we had up to that point. She was the only witness who was allowed to do that, and she knew practically everyone on the witness list as they say. 

"How could they do such a thing..." was one of the last things she said to me. Our interview went on for two days, all day Saturday, and I returned on Sunday. (Jones' daughter, who was 12 in 1971, confirmed some parts of her mother's story concerning the events at the Jones' house that Thanksgiving.) Helen Jones didn't know for sure if KC and Bernie pulled off the hijacking, but she sure filled in a lot of information that until that point was lacking. Decoded tried to get her to go on camera, but she wouldn't do it. Might have helped. As it turned out, Bernie Geestman tossed Kenny under the bus on TV and said Kenny COULD be the hijacker, as well as claiming he had nothing to do with the hijacking himself. (The Decoded cast and crew were not aware that Jones had placed the two men together over the week the hijacking occurred.) Jones could have disputed Geestman's effort to point to Kenny alone, saying she knew the two men were together the entire week. Bernie Geestman had no clue that both Jones and his ex wife had already implicated him in the crime. This was the only place everybody went wrong on the Decoded show, i.e. none of them knew about what Jones had said about the whole thing. Otherwise, the cast of Decoded could have asked Bernie Geestman the question that SHOULD have been asked:  "You say now that Kenny could be the hijacker? Then how come two people who have known you for decades say you were WITH Kenny the week the hijacking happened?" It should have been asked. 

At one point, Jones showed up on the set in Bonney Lake, but by that time it was too late...another film crew was already wrapping the questioning of Bernie Geestman over in the adjoining town of Puyallup. And right afterward, Bernie high-tailed it back to Port Angeles. Key things that should have come out during his interview simply fell through the cracks. It was too bad.

And as Kurt Vonnegut Jr said in Breakfast of Champions, (over and over),
"So it goes."

Edited by RobertMBlevins
Some clarifications

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18 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I do not believe that Richard McCoy was Cooper. However, I have always thought that if McCoy had not gotten caught, and we were sitting here today talking about two unsolved hijackings instead of just the one, that most people would probably be of the thought that they were done by the same person. Now, maybe there was enough there that the FBI could have determined that not to be the case. Obviously there would be nothing in the way of fingerprints or physical evidence to link the two. But it's something interesting to think about. How differently would we look at the Cooper case? I wonder how much circumstantial evidence a guy like Blevins (and others) could round up to tie their guy to both hijackings?

I've brought this up in the past and most people didn't agree with me. Oh well. 

I can see this happening.  McCoy got caught and there is a crowd that thinks he's Cooper.  If he hadn't been caught, then we would have had two hijackings with no culprit.  Logic would say that it very well could have been the same person.

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