MeyerLouie 5 #38701 March 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteFor the record, I don't believe the Cooper hijacking was a government-sponsored event to force changes to airline safety rules. (Done with the tacit approval of President Richard Nixon) Without evidence, this has to go into the realm of conspiracy theories like these: The Moon Landings Were Faked Aliens Recovered At Roswell, NM North America was discovered by the Knights Templar The Port Chicago Disaster in 1944 was actually a nuclear test. And finally: Ken Christiansen is NOT DB Cooper. Actually, Ken Christiansen was the leader of a religious cult. He claimed that when you die, your soul goes to a crawl space in Buckley, Washington. Fact of fiction? You be the judge. MeyerLouie Neither. Nobody knows for sure. YOU be the judge. I thought we were basically finished talking about Kenny...and yet you bring him up again. Fine. Here's the final report on him...again. As I've said before, there is a certain amount of witness testimony and evidence that MAY lead to the idea KC was involved. Do I know for sure? Not a chance. I've recently found out (through her daughter and grandsons) that the witness known as 'Dawn J' (Bernie Geestman's sister) is now living full-time with relatives. I withheld her full name for years because she lived alone. I've been given permission to reveal her name publicly: Dawn J. Andrusko, of Fox Island, WA. This very nice lady (picture attached) freely admitted to receiving a $5,000 cash loan in April 1972 from Christiansen, said she and some of her friends thought Christiansen might be the hijacker from the start, (but had trouble believing it because he was such a nice guy) ID'd the tie tack as one she had seen Christiansen wear occasionally, said he owned a toupee but she never saw him with it again after November 71, among other things. She stood up against her brother Bernie, verifying all this testimony to Marisa Kagan at History Channel, but said she didn't want to appear on TV against her brother. She used the money to put a down payment on a house in Buckley, WA. At the time, she and her four kids were living with the Geestmans. Her brother was the go-between for the money, and later the purchase of Christiansen's house. She had recently moved to WA, after getting a divorce in Minnesota. Her most famous quote from the interview, where she comments about Christiansen: Quote'So THAT'S where he got all the money...figures.' __________________________________________________ Circumstantial Blevins, it's all circumstantial -- the money, the tie, the toupee. Your circumstantial means inconsequential. What does it all prove? Absolutely nothing. There are numerous ways to come into money, the tie just might coincidentally bear a resemblance, and how does the toupee have much to do with anything signifant here? You've been on a big fishing trip, you've used the wrong bait, and you've come home empty handed -- you got skunked. Admit it -- so you can get on with your life. MeyerLouie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #38702 March 17, 2013 " but who's to say BK's theory is any more untenable than anybody else's theory around here? " BK's "story" sounds good on the outside until you dig into it, then it just falls apart. Bob claims a lot of things, said he was a College drop out, false. Bob claims he was drafted, but didn't know the process. (explained it backwards) Bob claims McCoy is still alive, but, in 2006 said McCoy gave him a photo before he died? Bob made many claims about Dave Haapala which also turned out to be false. Bob claims Cooper walked 15-20 miles that evening? this makes no sense if you knew the square mileage of the alleged jump area. Bob claims a can, then a milk can was buried close to the river with the money in it. milk cans are not water tight and would have destroyed the money in a short period of time that close to the river. Bob claims that Janet lived in Portland and not Vancouver? Bob claims a oil pipeline ran along the Columbia. false again Bob uses pictures not even from this Country about a "pump Station" along the Columbia. Bob's claims are obviously taken from Jo Weber's story with his own twist on it. Bob claims he was the "Record Keeper" but can't place anything correctly on his map. Bob really got nailed by the screen shot given by Matt showing obvious deception to it's max! This is only a small part of BK's "Story" you are correct by saying everyone has a right to tell there story, but, if you are really trying to prove something you must have proof of these actions. Bob Knoss has zero evidence and disappears or responds with childish behavior when confronted with any part of his story. Blevins is correct about BK being kicked off of many other sites. I think Bob has been doing this for his amusement, or he has a hidden problem with truth & reality "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #38703 March 17, 2013 BK also says the chest mount reserve was rigged as a back mounted main by Duane and used for the Norjack jump. This makes zero sense and wasnt even possible with the rigs supplied. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #38704 March 17, 2013 "Whose to say the government wasn't desperate enough to go Special Ops on this?' In my opinion if this was indeed a Government cover up wouldn't you think they would have tied up all the loose ends? A Government project would have been done entirely different than history shows. they would have easily placed a body in clear view to be found or would have been "caught" shortly after the crime. why leave this many open ends after the crime. the problem I see is the fact of a pretty simple crime has snowballed into a giant cluster F#$k. where would we be if the other "copycat" jumpers also got away. would they all be tied to a Government cover up simply because they are unsolved? Unsolved mysteries seem to be an open invitation to 'cover ups' and Conspiracies..... was the Alcatraz escape done in order to close the prison down due to treatment of the prisoner's? where does it end??? for the record, Alcatraz was falling apart mainly due to the fact of using salt water to flush the toilets which caused severe damage to the concrete structure. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #38705 March 17, 2013 Quotehere is something interesting I found on Ebay.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTHWEST-AIRLINES-D-B-COOPER-HIJACKING-NWA-HISTORY-CENTRE-DVD-TOLD-BY-COPILOT-/300875978658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460d9b17a2 This is a newsletter about the event (Coverage of event begins about page 8.) http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/12_fall_newsletter_web.pdf I thought the caption under the middle picture, second row was interesting. ......“D. B. Cooper ~ Dead or Alive. "This is probably the most authoritative book on the subject, a cooperative effort between Rataczak and the writer, Richard Tosaw. “I asked Mr. Nyrop if it was okay to do the book,” Rataczak recalls. “He said ‘okay, go ahead".but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #38706 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote here is something interesting I found on Ebay.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTHWEST-AIRLINES-D-B-COOPER-HIJACKING-NWA-HISTORY-CENTRE-DVD-TOLD-BY-COPILOT-/300875978658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460d9b17a2 This is a newsletter about the event (Coverage of event begins about page 8.) http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/12_fall_newsletter_web.pdf Thanks for posting this smokin......."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #38707 March 17, 2013 "About 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland, the second officer’s annunciator panel indicated that the rear stairs had been lowered." radio transcripts state 7:43 the stairs were lowered, wonder who wrote this? 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland don't jive..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #38708 March 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteDoes anyone have a list of all the DB Cooper copycats? Himmelsbach says that about 20 guys did it in the eight months after Cooper, plus Cini two weeks prior. I know I've asked this before, but I'm really digging into this now. I have about ten names. Thanks. By "copycat" do you mean demanded a parachute or just hijacked a plane? A pm to Farflung or Snowmman would probably yield more results - they have had some posts about this in the past - but here are some names. Are they already on your list? I think all of these except one requested parachute(s). Charles La Point Richard McCoy Martin McNally Garrett Trapnell Robb Heady Thomas Michael Hannon Frederick Hahneman Heinrich Von George Billy Gene Hurst, Jr ETA - Robert Wilson Frank Sibley - not sure if he requested parachutes but his hijacking was interesting, to say the least. LOL...Bicycles and naked agents. Glen Kurt Tripp - From 1980, but I include him b/c article said he originally asked for parachute intending to mimic DB.)but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #38709 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote "About 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland, the second officer’s annunciator panel indicated that the rear stairs had been lowered." radio transcripts state 7:43 the stairs were lowered, wonder who wrote this? 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland don't jive... Don't know who wrote that blurb, but it looks like a quick and dirty "summary" that relied less on accuracy and more on getting it done in xx number of words. For example: " He would blow the plane up unless $ 200,000 in $ 20 bills and four parachutes were awaiting him in Seattle. President Nyrop immediately authorized withdrawal of the money from a Seattle bank. Parachutes were obtained from McCord Air Force Base, 20 miles south of Seattle" . Another section outlines things that the co-pilot said in his talk. I just looked back on the thread and there was a conversation about this in January. lol...see signature line......but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #38710 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote Quote "About 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland, the second officer’s annunciator panel indicated that the rear stairs had been lowered." radio transcripts state 7:43 the stairs were lowered, wonder who wrote this? 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland don't jive... Don't know who wrote that blurb, but it looks like a quick and dirty "summary" that relied less on accuracy and more on getting it done in xx number of words. For example: " He would blow the plane up unless $ 200,000 in $ 20 bills and four parachutes were awaiting him in Seattle. President Nyrop immediately authorized withdrawal of the money from a Seattle bank. Parachutes were obtained from McCord Air Force Base, 20 miles south of Seattle" . Another section outlines things that the co-pilot said in his talk. I just looked back on the thread and there was a conversation about this in January. lol...see signature line...... If I can make a summary, from my point of view, it would be this: there has been enough variability in remarks attributed to Rataczak, that it may be nearly impossible at this point, to know what Rataczak did or did not do, saw or did not see, says or did not say ... and for all I know it is Rataczak himself partly re- sponsible for the uncertainty that has accumulated over the years ... so where does any speech or interview given at this point, fit in? Add to this the fact that central players Scott, Mucklow, and most of the agents who worked on this case early have been reticent to say anything at all! One player talking may add up to one hand clapping! I would rather have the radar data than have Rataczak and it's no criticism of Rataczak. Moreover, there is a short-list of questions I have never seen anyone ask Rataczak nor have I ever heard of Rataczak commenting about. Two questions would be: (1) Have you ever seen the radar data or talked to anyone who has, or worked with it in any way? (2) Who drew the FBI's flight path map and did you have any input into that or work with the FBI on it ? Why have central questions like that never been asked, or reported on, or included in any speech ever given and reported on by Bill Rataczak ? What we have is this same-old-drill regarding Rataczak and people commenting about him and for him, and not much ever changes since 40+ years! Some of it even winds up in MKULTRA and Crop Circles! I have to wonder about the veracity of these repeated exercises that may have gone nowhere ... regarding Rataczak ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #38711 March 17, 2013 Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, who broke through Geestman's lies as easily as a hot knife cuts through butter. There are some certain things established on Christiansen, and others not so well established. But when you cut to the chase on him, the one thing I am 100% sure of is that Bernie Geestman and his ex-wife know the truth on Christiansen (and their possible involvement) one way or another. And that's good enough for me. Smile 'Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers...' Janis Joplin Well you have hinted "your" report filed with the FBI was a "group" report before. A group effort? Did you all have a meeting? Who wrote the report? WHO SIGNED THE REPORT? Just you or all of the members of this so-called group you are now openly naming with responsibility for the report? Are ALL of the members of this so-called group aware they FILED A REPORT WITH THE FBI !? Or you just sorta did it for them ? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #38712 March 17, 2013 Quote If I can make a summary, from my point of view, it would be this: there has been enough variability in remarks attributed to Rataczak, that it may be nearly impossible at this point, to know what Rataczak did or did not do, saw or did not see, says or did not say ... and for all I know it is Rataczak himself partly re- sponsible for the uncertainty that has accumulated over the years ... so where does any speech or interview given at this point, fit in? Add to this the fact that central players Scott, Mucklow, and most of the agents who worked on this case early have been reticent to say anything at all! One player talking may add up to one hand clapping! I would rather have the radar data than have Rataczak and it's no criticism of Rataczak. Moreover, there is a short-list if questions I have never seen anyone ask Rataczak nor have I ever heard of Rataczak commenting about. Two questions would be: (1) Have you ever seen the radar data or talked to anyone who has, or worked with it in any way? (2) Who drew the FBI's flight path map and did you have any input into that or work with the FBI on it ? Why have central questions like that never been asked, or reported on, or included in any speech ever given and reported on by Bill Rataczak ? Rataczak was once quoted on this thread as having said something like, "I'm the only one who knows what the flight path was in the Portland area." And he certainly should have known what it was since he was hand-flying the aircraft and looking at the flight instruments and navigational instruments constantly. Also, there is a published picture of the entire cockpit crew plus the cabin crew at a news conference either in Seattle or Minneapolis with a day or two of the hijacking. If you read "body language", then carefully note that all three cabin crew members appear to be bored to death with the whole conference. And the cockpit crew, all three of them, have their arms crossed across their chests. In body language, this means that the cockpit crew members have been "turned off" by something. The rest is history. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #38713 March 17, 2013 QuoteGeorger asks: Quote'Well you have hinted "your" report filed with the FBI was a "group" report before. A group effort? Did you all have a meeting? Who wrote the report? WHO SIGNED THE REPORT? Just you or all of the members of this so-called group you are now openly naming with responsibility? Are ALL of the members of this so-called group aware they FILED A REPORT WITH THE FBI !? Or you just sorta did it for them ?...' Yes, there were a couple of meetings, some via Skype, some here at the office with the local staff. All witnesses named in the report, with the exception of Bernie and Margaret Geestman, were consulted before the report was sent to Seattle. Some of them I spoke to by phone, reading off sections where they were mentioned and I asked them if they thought this or that part was an accurate representation of their testimony. None of them objected. Marisa Kagan, Buddy Levy and Scott Rolle from Decoded were e-mailed copies. So were the family members of Dawn Andrusko, including the PDF for the book. I had Porteous review the report for accuracy. He approved it. Signed by yours truly and Porteous. Says so...if you had bothered to look. So you and Skip Porteous signed the report for the group. Have members of the group signed off - an approval or release statement? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Being the thorough reporter of truth and true associations you are. Wink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #38714 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote If I can make a summary, from my point of view, it would be this: there has been enough variability in remarks attributed to Rataczak, that it may be nearly impossible at this point, to know what Rataczak did or did not do, saw or did not see, says or did not say ... and for all I know it is Rataczak himself partly re- sponsible for the uncertainty that has accumulated over the years ... so where does any speech or interview given at this point, fit in? Add to this the fact that central players Scott, Mucklow, and most of the agents who worked on this case early have been reticent to say anything at all! One player talking may add up to one hand clapping! I would rather have the radar data than have Rataczak and it's no criticism of Rataczak. Moreover, there is a short-list if questions I have never seen anyone ask Rataczak nor have I ever heard of Rataczak commenting about. Two questions would be: (1) Have you ever seen the radar data or talked to anyone who has, or worked with it in any way? (2) Who drew the FBI's flight path map and did you have any input into that or work with the FBI on it ? Why have central questions like that never been asked, or reported on, or included in any speech ever given and reported on by Bill Rataczak ? Rataczak was once quoted on this thread as having said something like, "I'm the only one who knows what the flight path was in the Portland area." And he certainly should have known what it was since he was hand-flying the aircraft and looking at the flight instruments and navigational instruments constantly. Also, there is a published picture of the entire cockpit crew plus the cabin crew at a news conference either in Seattle or Minneapolis with a day or two of the hijacking. If you read "body language", then carefully note that all three cabin crew members appear to be bored to death with the whole conference. And the cockpit crew, all three of them, have their arms crossed across their chests. In body language, this means that the cockpit crew members have been "turned off" by something. The rest is history. Robert99 Great post! So we don't need no radar data Yes I have seen that arrns-crossed painting at the Art Institute on Chicago. Carol probably knows it well! I think 'arms crossed' is universal code ... the Planckian momentum of action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #38715 March 17, 2013 Quote Georger says in part: Quote 'So you and Skip Porteous signed the report for the group. Have members of the group signed off - an approval or release statement? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Wink...' Do reporters have witnesses sign off to everything? NO. They do usually verify, however. That's exactly what we did. You present people with what they said, what they testified to, and then ask them (as a matter of courtesy) if this is an accurate rendition of their statements. The report itself was subbed by AB and Sherlock, basically. Addresses, email, phone all included, so I think the FBI figured out easily who sent it. The Decoded cast are not named as witnesses, but we consulted them because we thought they should see everything on Geestman that they didn't know at the time of filming. ? Well your post says, quote: "Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, ... " You say: "I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report ... This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organiza- tions, " You are saying above you cannot (will not) take full responsibility. YOU SAY: "it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations," Which ORGANISATION are you saying is on the hook for your report to the FBI? Are the CEOs of these organisations aware !? You're saying you and Porteous signed in behalf of people and ORGANISATIONS. I assume these are corporate organisation - yes? The whole world reads this forum as you have informed us of countless times. You seem to be making a public announcement. In behalf of ORGANISATIONS ! WHAT ORGANISATION? CORPORATE ORGANISATIONS? (who people own stock in?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #38716 March 17, 2013 On Rataczak: He has been quoted as saying he has collected a lot of research on the case over the years. Maybe he has information in hard copy that no one is aware of. He does answer the phone, although he probably screens the calls first, due to Cooper Nuts. Just saying. Maybe he has the radar data somewhere, or other answers to certain questions? Robert99 might want to give him a call. Thanks for this news & info too - Most of us are new here and don't know the ropes. Thanks for keeping us informed about Rataczak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #38702 March 17, 2013 " but who's to say BK's theory is any more untenable than anybody else's theory around here? " BK's "story" sounds good on the outside until you dig into it, then it just falls apart. Bob claims a lot of things, said he was a College drop out, false. Bob claims he was drafted, but didn't know the process. (explained it backwards) Bob claims McCoy is still alive, but, in 2006 said McCoy gave him a photo before he died? Bob made many claims about Dave Haapala which also turned out to be false. Bob claims Cooper walked 15-20 miles that evening? this makes no sense if you knew the square mileage of the alleged jump area. Bob claims a can, then a milk can was buried close to the river with the money in it. milk cans are not water tight and would have destroyed the money in a short period of time that close to the river. Bob claims that Janet lived in Portland and not Vancouver? Bob claims a oil pipeline ran along the Columbia. false again Bob uses pictures not even from this Country about a "pump Station" along the Columbia. Bob's claims are obviously taken from Jo Weber's story with his own twist on it. Bob claims he was the "Record Keeper" but can't place anything correctly on his map. Bob really got nailed by the screen shot given by Matt showing obvious deception to it's max! This is only a small part of BK's "Story" you are correct by saying everyone has a right to tell there story, but, if you are really trying to prove something you must have proof of these actions. Bob Knoss has zero evidence and disappears or responds with childish behavior when confronted with any part of his story. Blevins is correct about BK being kicked off of many other sites. I think Bob has been doing this for his amusement, or he has a hidden problem with truth & reality "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #38703 March 17, 2013 BK also says the chest mount reserve was rigged as a back mounted main by Duane and used for the Norjack jump. This makes zero sense and wasnt even possible with the rigs supplied. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #38704 March 17, 2013 "Whose to say the government wasn't desperate enough to go Special Ops on this?' In my opinion if this was indeed a Government cover up wouldn't you think they would have tied up all the loose ends? A Government project would have been done entirely different than history shows. they would have easily placed a body in clear view to be found or would have been "caught" shortly after the crime. why leave this many open ends after the crime. the problem I see is the fact of a pretty simple crime has snowballed into a giant cluster F#$k. where would we be if the other "copycat" jumpers also got away. would they all be tied to a Government cover up simply because they are unsolved? Unsolved mysteries seem to be an open invitation to 'cover ups' and Conspiracies..... was the Alcatraz escape done in order to close the prison down due to treatment of the prisoner's? where does it end??? for the record, Alcatraz was falling apart mainly due to the fact of using salt water to flush the toilets which caused severe damage to the concrete structure. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #38705 March 17, 2013 Quotehere is something interesting I found on Ebay.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTHWEST-AIRLINES-D-B-COOPER-HIJACKING-NWA-HISTORY-CENTRE-DVD-TOLD-BY-COPILOT-/300875978658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460d9b17a2 This is a newsletter about the event (Coverage of event begins about page 8.) http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/12_fall_newsletter_web.pdf I thought the caption under the middle picture, second row was interesting. ......“D. B. Cooper ~ Dead or Alive. "This is probably the most authoritative book on the subject, a cooperative effort between Rataczak and the writer, Richard Tosaw. “I asked Mr. Nyrop if it was okay to do the book,” Rataczak recalls. “He said ‘okay, go ahead".but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #38706 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote here is something interesting I found on Ebay.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTHWEST-AIRLINES-D-B-COOPER-HIJACKING-NWA-HISTORY-CENTRE-DVD-TOLD-BY-COPILOT-/300875978658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460d9b17a2 This is a newsletter about the event (Coverage of event begins about page 8.) http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/12_fall_newsletter_web.pdf Thanks for posting this smokin......."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #38707 March 17, 2013 "About 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland, the second officer’s annunciator panel indicated that the rear stairs had been lowered." radio transcripts state 7:43 the stairs were lowered, wonder who wrote this? 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland don't jive..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #38708 March 17, 2013 QuoteQuoteDoes anyone have a list of all the DB Cooper copycats? Himmelsbach says that about 20 guys did it in the eight months after Cooper, plus Cini two weeks prior. I know I've asked this before, but I'm really digging into this now. I have about ten names. Thanks. By "copycat" do you mean demanded a parachute or just hijacked a plane? A pm to Farflung or Snowmman would probably yield more results - they have had some posts about this in the past - but here are some names. Are they already on your list? I think all of these except one requested parachute(s). Charles La Point Richard McCoy Martin McNally Garrett Trapnell Robb Heady Thomas Michael Hannon Frederick Hahneman Heinrich Von George Billy Gene Hurst, Jr ETA - Robert Wilson Frank Sibley - not sure if he requested parachutes but his hijacking was interesting, to say the least. LOL...Bicycles and naked agents. Glen Kurt Tripp - From 1980, but I include him b/c article said he originally asked for parachute intending to mimic DB.)but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #38709 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote "About 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland, the second officer’s annunciator panel indicated that the rear stairs had been lowered." radio transcripts state 7:43 the stairs were lowered, wonder who wrote this? 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland don't jive... Don't know who wrote that blurb, but it looks like a quick and dirty "summary" that relied less on accuracy and more on getting it done in xx number of words. For example: " He would blow the plane up unless $ 200,000 in $ 20 bills and four parachutes were awaiting him in Seattle. President Nyrop immediately authorized withdrawal of the money from a Seattle bank. Parachutes were obtained from McCord Air Force Base, 20 miles south of Seattle" . Another section outlines things that the co-pilot said in his talk. I just looked back on the thread and there was a conversation about this in January. lol...see signature line......but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38710 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote Quote "About 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland, the second officer’s annunciator panel indicated that the rear stairs had been lowered." radio transcripts state 7:43 the stairs were lowered, wonder who wrote this? 24 minutes out, 28 miles north of Portland don't jive... Don't know who wrote that blurb, but it looks like a quick and dirty "summary" that relied less on accuracy and more on getting it done in xx number of words. For example: " He would blow the plane up unless $ 200,000 in $ 20 bills and four parachutes were awaiting him in Seattle. President Nyrop immediately authorized withdrawal of the money from a Seattle bank. Parachutes were obtained from McCord Air Force Base, 20 miles south of Seattle" . Another section outlines things that the co-pilot said in his talk. I just looked back on the thread and there was a conversation about this in January. lol...see signature line...... If I can make a summary, from my point of view, it would be this: there has been enough variability in remarks attributed to Rataczak, that it may be nearly impossible at this point, to know what Rataczak did or did not do, saw or did not see, says or did not say ... and for all I know it is Rataczak himself partly re- sponsible for the uncertainty that has accumulated over the years ... so where does any speech or interview given at this point, fit in? Add to this the fact that central players Scott, Mucklow, and most of the agents who worked on this case early have been reticent to say anything at all! One player talking may add up to one hand clapping! I would rather have the radar data than have Rataczak and it's no criticism of Rataczak. Moreover, there is a short-list of questions I have never seen anyone ask Rataczak nor have I ever heard of Rataczak commenting about. Two questions would be: (1) Have you ever seen the radar data or talked to anyone who has, or worked with it in any way? (2) Who drew the FBI's flight path map and did you have any input into that or work with the FBI on it ? Why have central questions like that never been asked, or reported on, or included in any speech ever given and reported on by Bill Rataczak ? What we have is this same-old-drill regarding Rataczak and people commenting about him and for him, and not much ever changes since 40+ years! Some of it even winds up in MKULTRA and Crop Circles! I have to wonder about the veracity of these repeated exercises that may have gone nowhere ... regarding Rataczak ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38711 March 17, 2013 Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, who broke through Geestman's lies as easily as a hot knife cuts through butter. There are some certain things established on Christiansen, and others not so well established. But when you cut to the chase on him, the one thing I am 100% sure of is that Bernie Geestman and his ex-wife know the truth on Christiansen (and their possible involvement) one way or another. And that's good enough for me. Smile 'Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers...' Janis Joplin Well you have hinted "your" report filed with the FBI was a "group" report before. A group effort? Did you all have a meeting? Who wrote the report? WHO SIGNED THE REPORT? Just you or all of the members of this so-called group you are now openly naming with responsibility for the report? Are ALL of the members of this so-called group aware they FILED A REPORT WITH THE FBI !? Or you just sorta did it for them ? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #38712 March 17, 2013 Quote If I can make a summary, from my point of view, it would be this: there has been enough variability in remarks attributed to Rataczak, that it may be nearly impossible at this point, to know what Rataczak did or did not do, saw or did not see, says or did not say ... and for all I know it is Rataczak himself partly re- sponsible for the uncertainty that has accumulated over the years ... so where does any speech or interview given at this point, fit in? Add to this the fact that central players Scott, Mucklow, and most of the agents who worked on this case early have been reticent to say anything at all! One player talking may add up to one hand clapping! I would rather have the radar data than have Rataczak and it's no criticism of Rataczak. Moreover, there is a short-list if questions I have never seen anyone ask Rataczak nor have I ever heard of Rataczak commenting about. Two questions would be: (1) Have you ever seen the radar data or talked to anyone who has, or worked with it in any way? (2) Who drew the FBI's flight path map and did you have any input into that or work with the FBI on it ? Why have central questions like that never been asked, or reported on, or included in any speech ever given and reported on by Bill Rataczak ? Rataczak was once quoted on this thread as having said something like, "I'm the only one who knows what the flight path was in the Portland area." And he certainly should have known what it was since he was hand-flying the aircraft and looking at the flight instruments and navigational instruments constantly. Also, there is a published picture of the entire cockpit crew plus the cabin crew at a news conference either in Seattle or Minneapolis with a day or two of the hijacking. If you read "body language", then carefully note that all three cabin crew members appear to be bored to death with the whole conference. And the cockpit crew, all three of them, have their arms crossed across their chests. In body language, this means that the cockpit crew members have been "turned off" by something. The rest is history. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38713 March 17, 2013 QuoteGeorger asks: Quote'Well you have hinted "your" report filed with the FBI was a "group" report before. A group effort? Did you all have a meeting? Who wrote the report? WHO SIGNED THE REPORT? Just you or all of the members of this so-called group you are now openly naming with responsibility? Are ALL of the members of this so-called group aware they FILED A REPORT WITH THE FBI !? Or you just sorta did it for them ?...' Yes, there were a couple of meetings, some via Skype, some here at the office with the local staff. All witnesses named in the report, with the exception of Bernie and Margaret Geestman, were consulted before the report was sent to Seattle. Some of them I spoke to by phone, reading off sections where they were mentioned and I asked them if they thought this or that part was an accurate representation of their testimony. None of them objected. Marisa Kagan, Buddy Levy and Scott Rolle from Decoded were e-mailed copies. So were the family members of Dawn Andrusko, including the PDF for the book. I had Porteous review the report for accuracy. He approved it. Signed by yours truly and Porteous. Says so...if you had bothered to look. So you and Skip Porteous signed the report for the group. Have members of the group signed off - an approval or release statement? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Being the thorough reporter of truth and true associations you are. Wink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38714 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote If I can make a summary, from my point of view, it would be this: there has been enough variability in remarks attributed to Rataczak, that it may be nearly impossible at this point, to know what Rataczak did or did not do, saw or did not see, says or did not say ... and for all I know it is Rataczak himself partly re- sponsible for the uncertainty that has accumulated over the years ... so where does any speech or interview given at this point, fit in? Add to this the fact that central players Scott, Mucklow, and most of the agents who worked on this case early have been reticent to say anything at all! One player talking may add up to one hand clapping! I would rather have the radar data than have Rataczak and it's no criticism of Rataczak. Moreover, there is a short-list if questions I have never seen anyone ask Rataczak nor have I ever heard of Rataczak commenting about. Two questions would be: (1) Have you ever seen the radar data or talked to anyone who has, or worked with it in any way? (2) Who drew the FBI's flight path map and did you have any input into that or work with the FBI on it ? Why have central questions like that never been asked, or reported on, or included in any speech ever given and reported on by Bill Rataczak ? Rataczak was once quoted on this thread as having said something like, "I'm the only one who knows what the flight path was in the Portland area." And he certainly should have known what it was since he was hand-flying the aircraft and looking at the flight instruments and navigational instruments constantly. Also, there is a published picture of the entire cockpit crew plus the cabin crew at a news conference either in Seattle or Minneapolis with a day or two of the hijacking. If you read "body language", then carefully note that all three cabin crew members appear to be bored to death with the whole conference. And the cockpit crew, all three of them, have their arms crossed across their chests. In body language, this means that the cockpit crew members have been "turned off" by something. The rest is history. Robert99 Great post! So we don't need no radar data Yes I have seen that arrns-crossed painting at the Art Institute on Chicago. Carol probably knows it well! I think 'arms crossed' is universal code ... the Planckian momentum of action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38715 March 17, 2013 Quote Georger says in part: Quote 'So you and Skip Porteous signed the report for the group. Have members of the group signed off - an approval or release statement? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Wink...' Do reporters have witnesses sign off to everything? NO. They do usually verify, however. That's exactly what we did. You present people with what they said, what they testified to, and then ask them (as a matter of courtesy) if this is an accurate rendition of their statements. The report itself was subbed by AB and Sherlock, basically. Addresses, email, phone all included, so I think the FBI figured out easily who sent it. The Decoded cast are not named as witnesses, but we consulted them because we thought they should see everything on Geestman that they didn't know at the time of filming. ? Well your post says, quote: "Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, ... " You say: "I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report ... This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organiza- tions, " You are saying above you cannot (will not) take full responsibility. YOU SAY: "it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations," Which ORGANISATION are you saying is on the hook for your report to the FBI? Are the CEOs of these organisations aware !? You're saying you and Porteous signed in behalf of people and ORGANISATIONS. I assume these are corporate organisation - yes? The whole world reads this forum as you have informed us of countless times. You seem to be making a public announcement. In behalf of ORGANISATIONS ! WHAT ORGANISATION? CORPORATE ORGANISATIONS? (who people own stock in?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38716 March 17, 2013 On Rataczak: He has been quoted as saying he has collected a lot of research on the case over the years. Maybe he has information in hard copy that no one is aware of. He does answer the phone, although he probably screens the calls first, due to Cooper Nuts. Just saying. Maybe he has the radar data somewhere, or other answers to certain questions? Robert99 might want to give him a call. Thanks for this news & info too - Most of us are new here and don't know the ropes. Thanks for keeping us informed about Rataczak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #38717 March 17, 2013 For those who wish the information, here is what I have gatehred so far on the coipycats. Thanks, Smokin99, I'll add your contributions to the list in a moment: Yes, by copycat I mean Cooper-esque - ransom, hijacking a 727 or a DC 9, parachute exit. Copycats: The copycats, so far, (3. 17. 13): 1. Paul Cini 2. Richard McCoy 3. Frederick Hahneman 4. Robb Dolin Heady 5. Martin McNally 6. Arthur Gates Barkley 7. James Edwin Bennett, Jr 8. Gregory Lamar White 9. Robert Lee Jackson, and Ligia Lucrecia Sanchez Archila 10. Richard LaPoint 11. Billy Eugene Hurst And from Smokin99, 3. 17. 13: 12. Garrett Trapnell 13. Heinrich Von George 14. Thomas Michael Hannon 15. ETA - Robert Wilson 16. Frank Sibley - not sure if he requested parachutes but his hijacking was interesting, to say the least. LOL...Bicycles and naked agents. 17. Glen Kurt Tripp - From 1980, but I include him b/c article said he originally asked for parachute intending to mimic DB.) Details: 1. Paul Cini (from Farflung): The first extortive skyjacking: Cini claimed to be an IRA member but wasn't. He brought aboard a 12-gauge shotgun under his black overcoat, a 40lb box full of dynamite, and another package containing a parachute! Maybe the tip-off was his ski hat with holes poked through it for eye holes, he declined to take off upon entering. 40 miles out from Calgary he pulled down the ski hat to make a crude mask, pulled the 12-gauge from under his coat and announced he was hijacking the plane, and to make things perfectly clear he fired a blast from the 12-gauge into a cabin partition, he disclosed his box contained dynamite, and he asked for 1.5 million dollars and wanted to go to Ireland. The flight was diverted to Great Falls, MT where he was given $50,000 in cash but he ordered the plane airborne again refusing to let anyone off. They headed for Regina but Cini changed his mind again ordering the plane back to Great Falls where he let everyone but 6 crew members off. They took on approx 7000 gallons of fuel and Cini ordered the plane aloft again. The pilot convinced Cini they needed more fuel so they set a coarse for Regina. About 15 minutes out Capt Ehmann got out of his seat and called back telling Cini he was coming back to talk. Cini allowed it. Cini said he wanted to get his parachute on so Ehmann told him he wouldn’t interfere. Cini set his shotgun down to pick up his chute and Ehmann grabbed him and they wrestled. A purser ran back with a fire axe and hit Cini over the head. They tied Cini up and headed back for Great Falls Cini had previously ordered the "DC-8" to be flown at 3000 ft and the emergency door/window opened - he intended to bail through that. Cini: 5'7", black curly hair, swarthy olive skin complexion. Cini was 27 years old, a delivery truck driver who had previously lived in the USA but had gone up to live with his parents at Calgary five years earlier. All of this on Nov 13th 1971, 11 days before the Cooper hijacking. The whole thing a six hour ordeal - 2. In April 1972, former Army Green Beret Richard McCoy hijacked a United Airlines 727-100 after it left Denver, Colorado, diverted it to San Francisco, then bailed out over Utah with $500,000 in ransom money. He landed safely, but was arrested two days later. (From Wiki). 3. In May, Frederick Hahneman used a handgun to hijack an Eastern Airlines 727 in Allentown, Pennsylvania, demanded $303,000, and eventually parachuted into Honduras, his country of birth. A month later, with the FBI in pursuit and a $25,000 bounty on his head, he surrendered to the U.S. Embassy in Tegucigalpa. (From Wiki). 4. In early June, paratrooper and Vietnam veteran Robb Dolin Heady stormed a United Airlines 727 in Reno, extorted $200,000 and two parachutes, and jumped into darkness near Lake Washoe, about 25 miles (40 km) south of Reno. Police found Heady's car (sporting a U.S. Parachute Association bumper sticker) parked near the lake and arrested him as he returned to it the next morning. (From Wiki). Here is a report on Heady from Snowmman: Robb Dolin Heady. Student at Western Nevada Community College. Part time employee of a parking lot at a Reno casino. Former member of the University of Nevada's Parachute Club. Friday, June 2, 1972. United Airlines. Jumped over Washoe Lake, about 20 miles south of the Reno airport. So the DZ was local, as was how he got on. The plane was NY to San Francisco, UAL 239. It had landed at Reno, and 24 passengers had just deplaned. The hijack started then. It was sunset. Heady, wearing a pillow case with slits for eyes, charged aboard the plane. Had a .357 Magnum. Two pilots + three stews as hostages. 4 hour hijack. (edit) He asked for and received two parachutes. Ransom was $200,000. (edit) supposedly fired a shot when he got impatient while they were getting money and "fixing" the engine. Money supposedly gotten from casinos? He shifted to a second UAL 727 after being told the first plane was low on fuel and had a bad engine. He jumped into darkness apparently from 14,000 ft. into remote sagebrush-covered hills near Lake Washoe, about 25 miles south of Reno. Arrested on east side of lake about 5:30 AM. They staked out a white Triumph sedan parked off the dirt road that runs off of Eastshore Rd in Washoe City. On the back was a sticker reading: "Member of U.S. Parachute Association" After a while, the officers observed Heady walk up the road toward the car and remove the car keys from under a rock. As he began to open the door, they arrested him. They found the parachute, gun and clothing nearby. He said he spent the night on the beach. He had injured his left elbow. Chest injury also. He had just gotten back from Vietnam in December and had been a paratrooper in Vietnam. Was a sport chutist according to his dad. 150 police were combing the area till he was found. Slim, blond-haired. Held gun to head of stew. Used two hostages as shields when moving between planes. Pilot didn't know he had jumped till stewardess told him. (I guess she saw?) Supposedly lost the bag of money when he pulled the rip. The bag had $155,000. He left $45,000 on the plane. FBI found the money on June 4, 1972. He may have cached it. Note: he had some jumping experience, but apparently not enough to realize he needed to tie the bag on? They made it sound like he was just holding the bag. Unclear. Pleaded guilty 8/25/72. He got 30 year sentence. Recommendation for parole after 10. So maybe he's out already. At trial, lawyer argued he had malaria/high fever overseas. Psych exam was ordered. 5. About three weeks later an unemployed service station attendant named Martin McNally used a submachine gun to commandeer an American Airlines 727 en route from St. Louis to Tulsa, then diverted it eastward to Indiana and bailed out with $500,000 in ransom.[96] McNally lost the ransom money as he exited the aircraft, but landed safely near Peru, Indiana and was apprehended a few days later in a Detroit suburb. (From Wiki). The following account of the McNally hijacking comes from journalist Gene Curtis, former Tulsa (Oklahoma) World Managing Editor: An American Airlines plane headed from St. Louis to Tulsa was commandeered by an armed skyjacker who parachuted from the plane with $502,000 in ransom but never got a chance to spend the money. The skyjacker, who was armed with a .45-caliber submachine gun, took charge of the Boeing 727 as it neared Tulsa on June 23, 1972. The drama had all the earmarks of a Keystone Kops movie—an indecisive and inept hijacker, a car that crashed into the taxiing hijacked plane and the loss of the money and his weapon while the gunman was parachuting from the plane. Officials at first believed the skyjacker might have been killed during his jump but later arrested Martin McNally, 28, of Wyandotte, Mich. He was convicted and sentenced to two life prison terms. When he took charge of the flight, the gunman at first ordered the pilot to return to St. Louis but changed his mind and directed the flight to Fort Worth. He changed his mind again as the plane neared Fort Worth and ordered a return to St. Louis, where he released all but one of the 92 passengers. Passengers were informed of the hijacking as the plane began its descent to the Tulsa airport, according to Dean A. McGee, chairman of the Kerr-McGee Corp. who was one of the passengers. The pirate, sitting at the front of the coach section, had produced his submachine gun from a trombone case and then made his demand. The hijacker ordered all the men to move to the coach section, the women to move to the front and announced that the women would be released but the men would be kept as hostages. But he changed his mind again when the plane landed at St. Louis and the captain reported all the men seated on the right side of the plane could leave with the women and children. “I’m happy I was sitting on the right side,” McGee told a reporter later. The passengers who were released were forced to slide down an emergency chute from the plane—including a woman in a wheelchair. But no one was injured. The gunman asked for the money, a parachute and instructions on its use. Two FBI agents posing as airline officials boarded the plane. One showed him how to use the parachute and how to jump from the airplane. Airline attendants later said he had difficulty understanding how to use the parachute. The agents said they could not stop the skyjacking because the gunman kept his submachine gun aimed at an attendant. The pilot reported the hijacker was satisfied with the money and parachute and the plane began taxiing down a runway when a 1972 Cadillac driven by St. Louis businessman David Hanley, 30, crashed through a wire mesh fence, chased the jet along the runway and caromed off the plane’s nose gear and into its landing gear in what appeared to be an attempt to stop the hijacking. The car, which had been a Mothers’ Day present to Hanley’s wife, was demolished and Hanley was critically injured in the crash. He had been sitting in a motel bar near the airport when he told a friend “turn on the radio in a few minutes and you’ll hear something that will rock the world” and left. A few minutes later, Hanley began his chase of the taxiing jet at speeds up to 90 miles per hour. Then his car went to the end of the runway, turned around and headed straight toward the plane. The hijacker switched to another plane and it took off with three male flight crew members, two female attendants and a male passenger aboard as hostages. The hijacker instructed the pilot to head for Toronto, make a low pass to assure him of the location and then to head for John F. Kennedy Airport in New York City. But he plunged from the plane near Peru, Ind. The bags containing the money were found in a soybean field on a farm near Peru by farmer Lowell Elliott. “I thought it was a groundhog in the field,” Elliott said. “It didn’t move so I took a closer look.” Meanwhile, the gun was found five miles away by another farmer, Ronald Miller, who at first thought the commando-type weapon was a toy when it was turned up by the blades of a liquid fertilizer distributor. McNally, an unemployed service station attendant, was arrested at his home. He had been questioned and released by Peru police the night after the skyjacking. His partner, Walter J. Petlikowsky, 31, of nearby Detroit, confessed his role and identified McNally for the FBI. Himmelsbach’s List (from his book) Himms says that there were about 20 other skyjacking in the months after Cooper, p.119. Besides McNally, McCoy, Hahneman, and Heady, (p. 81-83) he lists the four below (p. 52). However, one hijacking occurred in 1970 and I don’t know if any of these four involved Cooper-esque techniques, such as parachuting out of a 727. (6) 1. (Prior to Cooper) Barkley, Arthur Gates, June 4, 1970: TWA. Asked for $100 million. Wounded by FBI and arrested. Mental Institution. No other details, (7) 2. Bennett, Jr, James Edwin, May 29, 1971, Eastern, $500,000. Overpowered by airlines officials. Tried, but found not guilty by reason of insanity. No further details. (8) 3. White, Gregory Lamar, TWA, $75,000. Wounded by FBI. Taken into custody. No further details. (9) 4. Jackson, Robert Lee and Archila, Ligia Lucrecia Sanchez, Braniff, $100,000. Taken in to custody in Buenos Aires. No further details. Farflung adds: (10) Charles LaPoint, prior criminal history? YES!!!!! (boner time!) He was a car thief with a well known background among the police and sheriff from where he previously lived. His vocation (during the crime) was selling magazine subscriptions over the phone. Farf adds the following, DZ post June 6, 2011: Richard LaPoint did a similar hijacking less than 2 months after Cooper. He demanded a couple chutes, helmet and $50,000 before he jumped out of a Hughes Airwest - DC-9. Yep, the DC-9 had aft stairs and was in service since the mid 60’s. How did he know a DC-9 was jumpable? No CIA or Black Ops just another plane with an aft exit. He was a former Paratrooper but that skill did not help him identify the SAR transceiver that activated when the chute deployed. A pair of F-111s tracked the signal and the police captured him within a couple hours. I’m sure he was a Cooper copy cat but he did not need years of working at Douglas to understand how to open or have the Stewardess open these stairs. I get the feeling that everyone thinks this is some sort of complex operation with alert horns and flashing lights with a control panel bristling with levers and knobs. It really is very simple and ordinary. There is one lever which has OPEN, CLOSE and Neutral (perhaps) along with a toggle (momentary) switch that may run a small motor to seat the cams to the fuselage posts. Then a handle to turn the cams (90 or 180 degrees) and lock the door with the lever placed in the neutral position. Is this really worthy of so much angst, study and loathing? I simply don’t see the complexity being assigned to operating a door. The only thing Cooper didn’t get was the door down for takeoff and that became an issue for him that the hijackers to follow simply didn’t suffer from. Why is Cooper the one with all this aft stair experience and flight experience yet he becomes frazzled over the door and needs an intermediate level off and butchers a chute for line and jumps with one sewn shut. I’m not a jumper but I know that force of habit (after years in the Air Force) would have me digging out the data card and checking repack dates even if I was hijacking a plane. I know how to use an Interphone system also, mainly because it impresses chicks and is wicked easy to operate. Cooper using the PA function is a sign of someone that has not used such a device before. The PA function is limited to the cargo/PAX compartment and oddly the lavatories but not the cockpit. Was Cooper all confused about this also? It gets hard for me to believe all these elements as indicative of anyone with more than the most casual association with aviation. Again, I don’t know jack about skydiving so I believe (perhaps foolishly) those who are experienced and seem to think Cooper was some sort of expert. It’s the same with this endless speculation about where the Co-pilot said they were. If he was asked an aviation based question he may give a response in kind. I can’t imagine that he didn’t glance at the HSI and note the bearing and DME to PDX VORTAC rather than this endless talk about being over the suburbs of Portland or wherever. Pilots staring out the cockpit then with bug eyed glee announcing while pointing “There it is!” belongs in Hollywood productions and not in instrument flying. Yet this stuff refuses to not only die, it won’t betray its origin. Strange. (11) Billy Eugene Hurst, prior criminal history? Unless you consider multiple stints in a laughing academy a crime, then Billy Boy was not a super tanker of malfeasance, but he was a little dinghy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38718 March 17, 2013 Quote What organizations? Why do you keep asking the same question? Adventure Books of Seattle Sherlock Investigations Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel, via rep Marisa Kagan. Does that answer your question? So, Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc), via rep Marisa Kagan are jointly legally responsible for your report to the FBI. That is not spelled out anywhere that I could find in your @"Report To The FBI" ISBN Jstor Google. I guess I did not read the fine print Amazing. That is NEWS! Any attorneys or stock holders out there care to comment ? I mean It just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38719 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote Quote What organizations? Why do you keep asking the same question? Adventure Books of Seattle Sherlock Investigations Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel, via rep Marisa Kagan. Does that answer your question? So, Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc), via rep Marisa Kagan are jointly legally responsible for your report to the FBI. That is not spelled out anywhere that I could find in your @"Report To The FBI" ISBN Jstor Google. I guess I did not read the fine print Amazing. That is NEWS! Any attorneys or stock holders out there care to comment ? Better yet...why don't you check with the people I named as responsible for the report? You are REALLY reaching here. I don't have a problem with verification. By the way...the FBI's had the report for a while now, and everyone on the DZ Cooper thread is well aware of it. Not really news anymore. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to check the actual CONTENT of the report. No...of course not. That would be admitting there is something to it. I understand this is impossible for you to accept. No problem. 'Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers...' Janis Joplin No Blevins. I only read nonfiction, then wait for a report on CNN, Nancy Grace, and UN troops and AB Books troops on the move in black helicopters. Pending that I will stay in my ivory tower and cook Chicken soup in the microwave. I'm just a "wage earner sheeple". A "Maroonz". I guess if the FBI and Congress don't respond to you guys, there will be hell-to-pay! No wonder 377 backs you! You are the real-deal! You always said you were. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38720 March 17, 2013 Quote Georger says in part, commenting on the KC report to the Seattle FBI: Quote 'No Blevins. I only read nonfiction, then wait for a report on CNN, Nancy Grace, and UN troops on the move in black helicopters Pending that I will stay in my ivory tower. I'm just a "wage earner sheeple". A "Maroonz"...' So you are saying the report is fiction? How did you come to that conclusion? Research? Checking with the witnesses? Proving the documents submitted were forgeries? Let me guess: None of the Above. The other things you mentioned sound personal, and are none of my concern. Your blanket statement that the report is 'fiction' only shows you no longer have any objectivity. The report doesn't 'prove' Kenny was the hijacker. It just presents what is known about him, and the available evidence, such as it is. I haven't contacted the FBI about it since, and neither have I sent copies to the media, although I thought about doing it for a while. What I am saying Blevins, is you are WAAAAAAAAAY over my head. My ovaries even hurt! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #38721 March 17, 2013 QuoteWhy is Cooper the one with all this aft stair experience and flight experience yet he becomes frazzled over the door and needs an intermediate level off and butchers a chute for line and jumps with one sewn shut. I’m not a jumper but I know that force of habit (after years in the Air Force) would have me digging out the data card and checking repack dates even if I was hijacking a plane. According to Tosaw's book, Tina saw Cooper get the packing card out and check it. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #38722 March 17, 2013 Quote (11) Billy Eugene Hurst, prior criminal history? Unless you consider multiple stints in a laughing academy a crime, then Billy Boy was not a super tanker of malfeasance, but he was a little dinghy. Classic. I sure do miss Farflung.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #38723 March 17, 2013 Quote Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. SEE what Blevins does with KEY WORDS. Note he says FBI REPORT! Key in D.B.Cooper and FBI report and see what you get. THERE WAS NOT an FBI REPORT ON KC! BLEVINS HAD TO BE SURE THERE WAS ONE - JUST BECAUSE. Why they collected the information and sent it to the FBI - so a REPORT would result.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #38724 March 17, 2013 RobertMBlevins, two comments. First, you dismiss the idea that Geestman and Christianson could have robbed a bank because they had no history of criminal activity in their background. But, instead, they hijacked a plane? Does not follow. Second, if Geestman was involved in the plot and possibly the instigator, why was Christianson lending Geestman's relatives money? Certainly, Geestman would have had a cut of the money and would have done so himself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #38725 March 17, 2013 Quote Quote Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. SEE what Blevins does with KEY WORDS. Note he says FBI REPORT! Key in D.B.Cooper and FBI report and see what you get. THERE WAS NOT an FBI REPORT ON KC! BLEVINS HAD TO BE SURE THERE WAS ONE - JUST BECAUSE. Why they collected the information and sent it to the FBI - so a REPORT would result. I tend to have the same feeling. Moreover: "Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc), via rep Marisa Kagan are jointly legally responsible for your report to the FBI. " I wonder if this Marisa Kagan CAN speak for much less sign for Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc). She could sign for herself but for the corpora- tions? Blevins says to check with the corporations - and maybe someone will. Smokin99 is good at running such things down. In effect we have gone all the way from Blevins making accusations against Geestman and calling him a liar, to two corporations backing accusations calling Geestman a liar, all on the "permission" of one Marisa Kagan, whatever her authority is! I thought months ago Blevins said no more KC? Here we are months later still having to deal with it because Blevins keep posting it! ????? We know the broken record routine. Still advertising and promoting... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
