georger 197
Robert99 37
QuotePacking Cards:
Are you sure Cooper read them? I have heard something about a paper that was delivered with the parachutes...instructions on how to use them...given to him allegedly by Mucklow as he was cutting the lines on the pink chute:
Excerpt from Skyjack, top of page 77:Quote'In the rear, Tina hands him a piece of paper: instructions on how to use a parachute.
"I don't need that," he says.'
Same page, this excerpt somewhat interesting:Quote'She goes to the panel. (to show Cooper how to release the stairs) Push the lever this way, the stairs go down. Easy. They have oxygen on board, too, she says.
"Yes. I know where it is. If I need it I will get it."
This could denote someone who knew where stuff was on an NWA flight, but not necessarily on a smaller 727. Knows where the O-2 is, but not how to open the stairs. Perhaps from experience on one of the larger overseas-route jets?
Just saying.
Blevins, The instructions are one thing and the packing card is something else. If Cooper had at least a bit of experience with emergency parachutes, he would be interested in the last time it was packed and would consult the packing card for that information. The packing card for the parachute in question would probably be located in a small pocket on the container between the back pad and near the top of the container.
Under no conditions whatsoever would Cooper open the container (or pull the rip cord) to inspect the chute. If he had done something like that, he would have never gotten it repacked.
Also, if Cooper bothered to watch the flight attendents welcome aboard briefing, he would know where the passenger oxygen system was located. And it he looked around the cabin at least once, he probably noticed a relative small, yellow colored oxygen tank that was for the attendents to carry around with them, with their oxygen masks plugged into it, when they had to move around the cabin after losing cabin pressure.
Robert99
[reply
Keeping it simple ala FF, I did a quick search for "Cooper" just in the skydiving History & trivia forum. The first mention of Cooper, DB Cooper, was Nov 3, 2000 in a post by jtval. That thread meandered along with relatively few posts a year until it was revived Jan 28 2006 by Orange1.
There were other familiar posters on that original thread also, including Skyjack. She first posted to that thread on Nov 12, 2006 about Duane, then she started a new thread (the 68 page one preceding this one) Nov 21, 2006 cause she "kept getting lost" trying to post.
Why does it matter?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUVgkXVDkBA
Since I cannot watch U-Tube because I only have dial up explain to me what you are after with that post. We all know I started another thread and the geeks got in there and crashed it then Quade opened this one with SPECIFIC RULES.
I participated in a 101 thing - was my first attempts at posting anything.
You are referring to "MY GETTING LOST" it was because I didn't know how to navigate the thread and follow the postings.
Before I started that thread I went to one of the other threads asking for help and they were very nice.
So PLEASE explain to ME what you are talking about. I had never posted anything in my life until 101 and did not use or have a computer until 2000.
If you are talking about the 2001 trip to WA - yea, I kept getting lost because the crew actually drove so fast it wa scary and there were too many things coming at me at one time - and I kept getting lost trying to piece together what I knew and sort out the FAKE stuff JT had been filling my head with for 5 yrs on the phone. I didn't know which way was going which way - I was as confused as the first part of this sentence.
It would only be my last day in WA in 2001 that someone actually helped me to reconstruct the trip - but I only had one day to do it in - so I had to come home.
It would be 9 yrs before I could afford to go back on my own to explore and to sort the memories out - is this what you are talking about. WHY don't you get your A-- in a plane and come talk to ME - Perhaps if YOU see what ALL I have accumulated you will understand why I might FEEL LOST.
Keeping it simple ala FF, I did a quick search for "Cooper" just in the skydiving History & trivia forum. The first mention of Cooper, DB Cooper, was Nov 3, 2000 in a post by jtval. That thread meandered along with relatively few posts a year until it was revived Jan 28 2006 by Orange1.
There were other familiar posters on that original thread also, including Skyjack. She first posted to that thread on Nov 12, 2006 about Duane, then she started a new thread (the 68 page one preceding this one) Nov 21, 2006 cause she "kept getting lost" trying to post.
Why does it matter?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUVgkXVDkBA
Since I cannot watch U-Tube because I only have dial up explain to me what you are after with that post. We all know I started another thread and the geeks got in there and crashed it then Quade opened this one with SPECIFIC RULES.
I participated in a 101 thing - was my first attempts at posting anything.
You are referring to "MY GETTING LOST" it was because I didn't know how to navigate the thread and follow the postings.
Before I started that thread I went to one of the other threads asking for help and they were very nice.
So PLEASE explain to ME what you are talking about. I had never posted anything in my life until 101 and did not use or have a computer until 2000.
If you are talking about the 2001 trip to WA - yea, I kept getting lost because the crew actually drove so fast it wa scary and there were too many things coming at me at one time - and I kept getting lost trying to piece together what I knew and sort out the FAKE stuff JT had been filling my head with for 5 yrs on the phone. I didn't know which way was going which way - I was as confused as the first part of this sentence.
It would only be my last day in WA in 2001 that someone actually helped me to reconstruct the trip - but I only had one day to do it in - so I had to come home.
It would be 9 yrs before I could afford to go back on my own to explore and to sort the memories out - is this what you are talking about. WHY don't you get your A-- in a plane and come talk to ME - Perhaps if YOU see what ALL I have accumulated you will understand why I might FEEL LOST.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 37
QuoteThe money came from Salmon Creek and ended up on Tens Bar by natural means.
POST A MAP!
99.99% DONT HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT ! ?
Also, if Lake River or Vancouver Lake figures into this explanation, please explain how the money got across the levee that NW Lower River Road is built upon. The purpose of that levee was to keep the Columbia River water on the west side of the road/levee and separate from the Lake River and Vancouver Lake on the east side.
Robert99
Farflung 0
Smokin99 asks:
“Since I don't really get the repacking, inspecting date thing since none of the dates on the card look like it received regular inspections/repacking - Are you are saying the parachute was out of date and would the days out have given him pause?”
In a word….. yes. (I’m not sure the standard for 1971)
This is part of the- what did he know versus what did he do ethos. From the standpoint of aviation and system knowledge, I give Cooper a D- or he knows what he observed from movies or seeing the stairs extended on the ground or in a photo. He didn’t use any wicked cool flyer jargon, couldn’t open the stairs, flubbed using the interphone and asked for a destination which no 727 could make. That’s some of what I use to arrive at my present viewpoint.
Now for the skydiving crap. If you hand me a parachute, force of habit, will have me pulling the data card, then looking at the last repack date, where I will accept or reject the thing. Otherwise there isn’t much reason for looking at the card. That’s really the only function of the thing. You can see the one posted in the image and it is very similar to ones I’ve looked at hundreds and hundreds of times. But since I’m a whuffo, I don’t know jack, so I left it up to the ‘experts’ to notice.
Now Cooper obviously has been credited with looking at the data cards. I don’t ‘KNOW’ if that is fact. If he did, he is the world’s worst at interpreting them and accepted a training dummy, and one that was ‘timed out’ for his efforts. That alone makes me skeptical of the claim and should have a similar effect upon other’s researching this subject. As you can see, it doesn’t slow them down a bit.
So I was in limbo with not wanting to taint, steer or otherwise fabricate some data where none exists. I posted the data card several times and asked if skydivers even give a shit about regulations, know what they are, or are simply all graduates of the University of Borrowed Time. The answer I got basically said there is a great deal of bombast surrounding the sport, but not a lot of ‘expertise’ in the traditional sense. If I was to go to the average DZ and did a spot inspection, I would find that chutes would likely be out of date and no one really respects the rules. Based on the lack of feedback about the pack date and hijacking, I would say that is a point of confirmation in the direction of lax rule and regulation observation. There are plenty of other items (hot fueling, hot loads) which reinforce this viewpoint.
So where’s the indicator that Cooper was a jumper? McCoy and Heady brought their own rigs to avoid tampering and unfamiliar gear. Cooper checked the data card? Like other skydivers? Then robotically accepted and used a dead and out of date chute because that’s what any skydiver would do? Everything is like nailing Jello-O to the wall, EVERYTHING. No self-respecting skydiver is going to admit they ignore or jack around with inspection schedules, yet no skydivers who read this thread have noticed that Cooper’s chute was out of date, even though I felt as if I was rubbing it their faces. I’m still at a loss.
I don’t think Cooper read any data cards. I don’t know if that is a reflection of knowledge or not. I went through constant ‘no-notice’ check rides, partial checks annual checks and was cross checked by ground crew, flight surgeons and fellow crew members in a collective effort to NOT crash or kill someone else. An aircraft would be refused for a broken piece of safety wire, wrapped around a cotter pin, holding a locking nut in place, which was inspected, after it was treated with Loctite and had a drop of Torque Seal on the base. That’s suspenders and a belt on a pair of coveralls, yet we still find ways to crash. Apparently skydiving does not follow the same protocol, which may not matter given the low number of jumps they have. Perhaps the margins of failure are wide enough to tolerate seeing a data card that is out of date and displaying the attributes of ignorance and or apathy. It has been over a year since the article was published and I’m no closer to an answer which would indicate one way or the other regarding Cooper, the Skygod.
“Since I don't really get the repacking, inspecting date thing since none of the dates on the card look like it received regular inspections/repacking - Are you are saying the parachute was out of date and would the days out have given him pause?”
In a word….. yes. (I’m not sure the standard for 1971)
This is part of the- what did he know versus what did he do ethos. From the standpoint of aviation and system knowledge, I give Cooper a D- or he knows what he observed from movies or seeing the stairs extended on the ground or in a photo. He didn’t use any wicked cool flyer jargon, couldn’t open the stairs, flubbed using the interphone and asked for a destination which no 727 could make. That’s some of what I use to arrive at my present viewpoint.
Now for the skydiving crap. If you hand me a parachute, force of habit, will have me pulling the data card, then looking at the last repack date, where I will accept or reject the thing. Otherwise there isn’t much reason for looking at the card. That’s really the only function of the thing. You can see the one posted in the image and it is very similar to ones I’ve looked at hundreds and hundreds of times. But since I’m a whuffo, I don’t know jack, so I left it up to the ‘experts’ to notice.
Now Cooper obviously has been credited with looking at the data cards. I don’t ‘KNOW’ if that is fact. If he did, he is the world’s worst at interpreting them and accepted a training dummy, and one that was ‘timed out’ for his efforts. That alone makes me skeptical of the claim and should have a similar effect upon other’s researching this subject. As you can see, it doesn’t slow them down a bit.
So I was in limbo with not wanting to taint, steer or otherwise fabricate some data where none exists. I posted the data card several times and asked if skydivers even give a shit about regulations, know what they are, or are simply all graduates of the University of Borrowed Time. The answer I got basically said there is a great deal of bombast surrounding the sport, but not a lot of ‘expertise’ in the traditional sense. If I was to go to the average DZ and did a spot inspection, I would find that chutes would likely be out of date and no one really respects the rules. Based on the lack of feedback about the pack date and hijacking, I would say that is a point of confirmation in the direction of lax rule and regulation observation. There are plenty of other items (hot fueling, hot loads) which reinforce this viewpoint.
So where’s the indicator that Cooper was a jumper? McCoy and Heady brought their own rigs to avoid tampering and unfamiliar gear. Cooper checked the data card? Like other skydivers? Then robotically accepted and used a dead and out of date chute because that’s what any skydiver would do? Everything is like nailing Jello-O to the wall, EVERYTHING. No self-respecting skydiver is going to admit they ignore or jack around with inspection schedules, yet no skydivers who read this thread have noticed that Cooper’s chute was out of date, even though I felt as if I was rubbing it their faces. I’m still at a loss.
I don’t think Cooper read any data cards. I don’t know if that is a reflection of knowledge or not. I went through constant ‘no-notice’ check rides, partial checks annual checks and was cross checked by ground crew, flight surgeons and fellow crew members in a collective effort to NOT crash or kill someone else. An aircraft would be refused for a broken piece of safety wire, wrapped around a cotter pin, holding a locking nut in place, which was inspected, after it was treated with Loctite and had a drop of Torque Seal on the base. That’s suspenders and a belt on a pair of coveralls, yet we still find ways to crash. Apparently skydiving does not follow the same protocol, which may not matter given the low number of jumps they have. Perhaps the margins of failure are wide enough to tolerate seeing a data card that is out of date and displaying the attributes of ignorance and or apathy. It has been over a year since the article was published and I’m no closer to an answer which would indicate one way or the other regarding Cooper, the Skygod.
Robert99 37
QuoteSmokin99 asks:
“Since I don't really get the repacking, inspecting date thing since none of the dates on the card look like it received regular inspections/repacking - Are you are saying the parachute was out of date and would the days out have given him pause?”
In a word….. yes. (I’m not sure the standard for 1971).
Smokin99, In 1971 the repack period for emergency civilian parachutes was 90 days (ever 3 months).
So the packing card recently shown on this thread indicated that the parachute had not been packed in more than 180 days and was illegal. But I doubt that was the card for the back chute Cooper took with him.
In any event, even if the parachute was illegal from a packing period viewpoint, that is not an indication that the parachute would not function normally.
At the present time (2012), the repack period for emergency civilian parachutes is 180 days (ever 6 months).
Tosaw's book indicates that Tina saw Cooper check the packing card for the parachute he used.
Robert99
Robert99 37
QuoteQuote? I have heard something about a paper that was delivered with the parachutes...:)]
READ DA THREAD!
YOU HAVE OPINIONS WITHOUT INFO ?
YOU SAW UFO'S ?
I gave info, if you had bothered to read it. Geoff Gray, who was allowed access to the original FBI individual witness reports, and quotes from them in his book. I have read quite a bit of the thread. Do you have even a REMOTE idea of how much material is on this thread? If it were an 8.5x11 Word doc, it would take up more than 15,000 pages in print form.
And I'm not the only one around here who ventures opinions. Who are you? The Opinion Monitor? (*laughs*) Actually, you remind me more of a school Hall Monitor, asking people for their passes. Sorry, the dog ate it.
I don't doubt that Cooper read the packing cards. Just wondered if anyone actually saw him DO it. Nothing is certain without witnesses or evidence.
And yeah...(again)...I saw a UFO once with one other witness. Still can't explain it.
Blevins, I don't know what you were looking at but I strongly suspect that it wasn't 20 miles high. And I can categorially state that it didn't make a turn as abrupt as you describe.
Perhaps you have heard the saying, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." In the same sense, anything flying in the Earth's atmosphere or its immediate vicinity must comply with Earth physics. It doesn't have a choice.
Also, there is no such thing as little green men from Mars. Mars has been inspected for the last several decades and if there was meaningful life there some evidence of it would have surely been noticed by now.
On the general subject of "Flying Saucers", which were first mentioned in Washington State about 1947, a few years ago a TV cable channel had a scientific program that reviewed the original sightings of those things. The conclusion was that the original sightings could not have happened as claimed.
The moral of the above is that BS, whether about flyings saucers or D. B. Cooper, can take on a lengthy life of its own.
Robert99
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteThe money came from Salmon Creek and ended up on Tens Bar by natural means.
POST A MAP!
99.99% DONT HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT ! ?
Also, if Lake River or Vancouver Lake figures into this explanation, please explain how the money got across the levee that NW Lower River Road is built upon. The purpose of that levee was to keep the Columbia River water on the west side of the road/levee and separate from the Lake River and Vancouver Lake on the east side.
Robert99
Not to mention.. Lake River in 1971 was pretty much a ditch with no flow.. it was not till the huge project much much later that forced water INTO Vancouver Lake... so it was not quite as much of a stinking cesspool that it was for so many decades.
Robert99 37
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe money came from Salmon Creek and ended up on Tens Bar by natural means.
POST A MAP!
99.99% DONT HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT ! ?
Also, if Lake River or Vancouver Lake figures into this explanation, please explain how the money got across the levee that NW Lower River Road is built upon. The purpose of that levee was to keep the Columbia River water on the west side of the road/levee and separate from the Lake River and Vancouver Lake on the east side.
Robert99
Not to mention.. Lake River in 1971 was pretty much a ditch with no flow.. it was not till the huge project much much later that forced water INTO Vancouver Lake... so it was not quite as much of a stinking cesspool that it was for so many decades.
Amazon, You are no doubt referring to the Flushing Channel construction.
Do you know the date when the channel between Caterpillar Island and the NW Lower River Road was dredged so that the flow from the Columbia passed completely through?
Kadow's Caterpillar Island Marina is now located in that channel and some of the boats in that Marina seem to require water several feet deep.
On the printed US topographical charts, that channel is still listed as a mud flat.
Robert99
smokin99 0
QuoteSince I cannot watch U-Tube because I only have dial up explain to me what you are after with that post. We all know I started another thread and the geeks got in there and crashed it then Quade opened this one with SPECIFIC RULES.
I participated in a 101 thing - was my first attempts at posting anything.
You are referring to "MY GETTING LOST" it was because I didn't know how to navigate the thread and follow the postings.
Before I started that thread I went to one of the other threads asking for help and they were very nice.
So PLEASE explain to ME what you are talking about. I had never posted anything in my life until 101 and did not use or have a computer until 2000.
Yada....yada......yada......
It would be 9 yrs before I could afford to go back on my own to explore and to sort the memories out - is this what you are talking about. WHY don't you get your A-- in a plane and come talk to ME - Perhaps if YOU see what ALL I have accumulated you will understand why I might FEEL LOST.
Jo. Chill.
1st - the post was not about you - I was merely giving a short, brief, bio of the thread on it's 12 year anniversary. In reading the original original thread, I was exquisitely (thanks, Farf) pleased that you have not changed your posting m.o., i.e, getting lost, things going poof, you were sickly then too, and bemoaning the hand that life had dealt in regards to finding the truth about Weber. In short, nothing's changed. So I referenced that short, brief fact - that the second original thread was started because you "got lost" trying to find where to post on the original Cooper thread.
2nd: What the post was about: I made the obvious observation that if someone had buried some money back when the thread first started we would be able to see the condition of it today. That would have been a cool experiment, but alas...........
3rd: The video I linked to (completely tongue in cheek) was "Wasted Days and Wasted nights". A pretty cool song btw, sung by Freddy Fender -
No relation to Duane Weber, though Fender was in Angola Prison for a couple of years and was pardoned by Gov. Jimmy Davis, of "You Are My Sunshine" fame.
4th: The other video was the Motown hit "Money, That's What I Want" as performed by a groovy young band called the "Beatles", though some think that the better version of the song was that of Barrett Strong, a singer/songwriter who wrote some of the best tunes to come out of Motown. I'm kind of partial to his version too, but I love to watch old Ed Sullivan vids of the Beatles early days when it was still new and fresh and fun and just making music.
5th and Final:
Life is too short for dialup. A straight DSL line is $39.99/month minus what you currently pay for dialup. That's less than a carton of cigarettes.
With all due respect, I do confess that I don't pay a whole lot of attention to your posts anymore because you tend to ramble and you try to make connections with every random piece of information that comes along. But the fact is that I'm one of the few people around here who hasn't written you off as a "crazy old woman" (Your words - not mine). If that even matters to you, don't screw it up by being a b...mean.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
georger 197
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe money came from Salmon Creek and ended up on Tens Bar by natural means.
POST A MAP!
99.99% DONT HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT ! ?
Also, if Lake River or Vancouver Lake figures into this explanation, please explain how the money got across the levee that NW Lower River Road is built upon. The purpose of that levee was to keep the Columbia River water on the west side of the road/levee and separate from the Lake River and Vancouver Lake on the east side.
Robert99
Not to mention.. Lake River in 1971 was pretty much a ditch with no flow.. it was not till the huge project much much later that forced water INTO Vancouver Lake... so it was not quite as much of a stinking cesspool that it was for so many decades.
Moreover, there is some info that after the money
find the whole area of Salmon 'creek?', the
Shillapoo, and the area around Vancouver Lake were
searched, both by LE and by many individuals
looking for any sign of Cooper/artifacts ?
POST A MAP!
99.99% DONT HAVE THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT ! ?