Amazon 7 #35326 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #35327 November 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt seems pretty clear from my research what happened here. QuoteMy theory on the jump (partially by 377): Cooper gets the airstairs open. We already know they dropped no more than 24-36 inches on release. Cooper is packing two parachutes, a briefcase, a money bag. That's a good load. But he has to get the stairs down, right? If he starts going forward, he will have to stoop quite low to force the stairs down, and if they drop suddenly, there's a good chance he would go head over heels right to the bottom and hasta lavista, baby off the end. I think he BACKED down the stairs, and carefully. It's cold, the engines are roaring. He keeps one hand on the railing, maybe both, depending on how his load is secured. As he backs down, the stairs begin to drop because of his weight. Crew said they felt 'oscillations,' and this might the reason. The door open light was on up in the cockpit. When he reaches the end, instead of doing a geronimo off the end, he simply pulls the ripcord right there, lets the chute inflate, and it takes him right off the stairs. The stairs snap back up almost to the closed position, and then fall back to the settle-in point. (Crew reported door light went off for a second, and then came back on for good) This would have been the safest way to do it. I can't prove this theory, of course...but I believe it's likely this is what actually happened. No tumble, no freefall, just a long drop to the ground. From that height, he may have even gained a rough idea on which way to go after he landed, since he could look around on the way down. Blevins, You know how I hate trivial questions, but please indulge me in this matter. Assuming Cooper weighed 180 pounds, the money and its bag weighed 25 pounds, and the parachutes weighed 25 pounds, the total load in the jump would be 230 pounds. In addition, the airliner was doing almost exactly 225 MPH True Air Speed. First question, do you know the rated load and speed of the back pack that Cooper took? Second question, do you know the rated load and speed of the special back pack that Felix Baumgarter used during his recent jump? I have no personal knowledge of a military type personnel parachute rated at more than 225 MPH although I have heard of some rated at that speed. I have no information on the design suspended loads. I have some knowledge of zero-zero parachute systems since I have spent a lot of time working on vertical take-off and landing aircraft (this is something other than standard helicopters). Some of these parachute systems are rated at 0 to 600 MPH at ground level. I have seen films of these systems getting their job done under those conditions or close to it. But I don't remember the design specifications for these chutes. Round civilian emergency parachutes are rated as "low speed", 150 MPH (Knots?), and "high speed", 160 MPH (Knots?). Felix Baumgartner's special square parachute was listed as being "high speed" with a rating of 160 MPH (Knots?). It is possible that I have the MPH and Knots reversed in the above two paragraphs. 377 has previously commented on the strength of some military parachute canopies. However, pulling the rip cord on the stairs at 225 MPH may be a bit to much in my opinion. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #35328 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. Would you have pulled the rip cord while still on the stairs? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #35329 November 3, 2012 I know a C-9 will handle that kind of speed.. but MAN that would give you a good reality check( I have a few hundred jumps on C-9 Canopies).... I have been known to deploy some canopies at higher than rated speed and it is NOT pleasant. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=983377;search_string=Blew%20up;#983377 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #35330 November 3, 2012 QuoteOne of the problems some folks have around here is an inability to put themselves in the shoes of the hijacker. I have no such problem and I've done it many times. Blevins, Please elaborate on the above. What is the source of your data for what the hijacker would be thinking and considering? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #35331 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. several have said they would toss the "X" chute, can we believe Cooper did? if I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #35332 November 3, 2012 I remembered something about the place Duane took me that I believe to be Tena's bar. (would love to see some pictures of the front of the house from 1979 or 1980). Duane pointed across the water from the parking lot after he got back to the area I was waiting for him....He stated as he pointed across the river and told me he used to know a man who lived in the area across the way - all I saw was low land and sky. What area could he possibly have been pointing at? What would have been his reason of saying anything or going to the river by himself. In 1979 - the money had not been found at Tena's bar and I knew nothing about Cooper. If he did NOT have a connection to the area - WHY did he go there and Why did he take me to specific places? Perhaps it is a combination of the conversations going on and the fact that I feel REALLY LOUSY tonight - I am reflecting on that part of the trip and the QUESTION just popped into my mind. The question gave me a really very sick sick feeling and I do not understand why. I want you guys to know that I speak from my gut and my heart right now and I am not playing any kind of game with this question. I need an answer to this question - one I have never asked myself or anyone else - WHY that location? What was Duane's connection to that specific location? Why would he choose that place to go to and then the dam money show up in the area 8 months later. TOO odd that the places Duane took me all had connections to the past and to Cooper. A man he used to know - Who was that man - was it himself? I doubt Duane was that philosophical so it has to be a simple answer. So many questions that would be so easy to answer if only we knew Duane's locations in the area from 1945 to 1949... If he was encarcerated it sure was a liberal encarceration and he seemed like the memories were GOOD memories - like they were the highlight of his life and yet he told me so little - basically nothing - like when he mentioned flying into and out of certain little airports in the area. I forgot the statement he made as we were in OR going past the location not too far from the Redmond airport. It had "guys" in it and something "he couldn't talk about". I have told the story about the Redmond area before, but tonight I just do not feel well enough to try and remember anymore. Hope someone can fill me in on some reasons right now - What was his connection to the Tena Bar area and who was the man.In my memory I think he said a name, but I can't pull it out. He mentioned an area, but again I can't pull it out of my memory.... This memory is giving me such a sick feeling....I have heard that in stressful times one recalls things they thought they had forgot...they seen thing in their mind they thought they had forgot. Have to go the sick feeling is not just words right now. Bye!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #35333 November 3, 2012 Quote Guess I must be the only one who thinks of these things. Jeez Blevins, where would we be without you. Lol...Farflung was right... there are mysteries greater than the Pyramids of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon and DB Cooper. But enough about you.... 377 might very well agree with you and he knows a lot more about jumping than you or I, but I don't believe he backed into the blast. Not sure that it adds anything to the equation whether he jumped forward, backed off or butt walked down those stairs - but I just don't believe that someone would give up the small measure of control (Control = looking to see what you are getting yourself into) that they do have in this particular situation by jumping out backwards. Especially with a load and especially if the exit was kind of cramped. Have you calculated how far down he would have had to go before his full weight opened the door to max? What about holding on to the sides? Where's the source that Flight 305 had no hydraulics in play? I'm sure you are referencing old posts but I can't find it. Backing out...gut instinct says no - not seeing it, but each to his own since we'll never know for sure..but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #35334 November 3, 2012 Quote I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL nice Quote If I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone Do not know who said what, but if I had to go down I guess it would be like Duane's dream. From the position he was reaching up with his hand as he extended while screaming " I left my prints on the aft stairs - I'm going to die" then a blood curdling scream. WOW now I really really have to go - that mean UGHHH! Is there an icon for head in toilet?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MeyerLouie 5 #35335 November 3, 2012 QuoteIt seems pretty clear from my research what happened here. Cooper jumped just north of Battleground. Shocked from the cold, confused by the chute, disoriented by the darkness, he splashed down either in Salmon Creek or one of her tributaries. Never opened the chute - dead at impact. His corpse floats downstream overnight along the Salmon River. By sunrise the body is filling with water and begins to sink, dragged slowly along the bottom into Lake River. Days, perhaps a week or more, passes. The body and the money along are dragged along the bottom. The drawstring opens and the money spills out just as Lake River flows into the Columbia. WHY WOULD THE MONEY SPILL OUT RIGHT HERE, JUST AT THIS MOMENT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. The body, freed from the anchor of the money bag, floats to the surface one night and is discharged into the Pacific Ocean. Some of the money travels up the Columbia very slowly if at all. Tidal actions and low flow during the winter time causes the Columbia to reverse flow and deposits the money on Tena Bar where in time it is covered first in snow and later in sand. It is found 9 years later. IF THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, THEN HOW DID THE 3 BUNDLES OF MONEY HAPPEN TO END UP TOGETHER IN A 1'X1' AREA ON THE BEACH, IN THE SAND, TOGETHER, AT TENA'S BAR, WITH RUBBER BAND ON TWO OF THE BUNDLES IN TACT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. Everything else is lost. Cooper is fish food, and the rest of the money is either completely deteriorated or washed out to sea itself. I know it doesn't sound as sexy as Cooper landing, getting away, and secretly burying the money on a deserted sandbar, but it is far more logical. Thoughts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MeyerLouie 5 #35336 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. several have said they would toss the "X" chute, can we believe Cooper did? if I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone ----------------------------------------------------------- It seems somewhat probable that the "X" chute would have been found by now if tossed. That tiny little placard card from the aft stairway was found afterall. True, the "X" chute is bigger, bulkier, so there's more chance of it getting hung up in a briar patch or treetop. It seems to me,though, DBC would have been more apt to toss the briefcase -- since it was so bulky and awkward to carry and stap on -- unless the briefcase served a useful purpose -- like carrying some of the money, or harboring a homing device, or carrying the road flares for a starting a fire later. If DBC tossed either or both, then they're still out there, and if you find 'em, you're going to be famous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #35337 November 3, 2012 377 has previously commented on the strength of some military parachute canopies. However, pulling the rip cord on the stairs at 225 MPH may be a bit to much in my opinion. Robert99 Recall several of the chutes arrived with instructions and packing cards. According to Tina, he said he didnt need any instructions and tossed them. He then opened and examined the chutes and pulled the packing cards - yes? He tossed the packing cards on the floor but, before doing so glanced or looked at them, long enough to read them. Its the juxtapositon of throwing the instructions away instamtly with the remark 'I dont need them" then not just opening to chutes to look inside, but looking at the packing cards long enough to read them - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #35338 November 3, 2012 Quote WHY WOULD THE MONEY SPILL OUT RIGHT HERE, JUST AT THIS MOMENT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. IF THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, THEN HOW DID THE 3 BUNDLES OF MONEY HAPPEN TO END UP TOGETHER IN A 1'X1' AREA ON THE BEACH, IN THE SAND, TOGETHER, AT TENA'S BAR, WITH RUBBER BAND ON TWO OF THE BUNDLES IN TACT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. Louie I really agree with that statement and I have to add that even though there are those who think I am a liar - I have told the same story for 17 yrs plus about the house and the gate and the trees. The house someone put on the site with a map didn't look right - not what I saw in 1979 and May of 2001. In 2001 it had changed and that bugs me - I did NOT go back in 2010 as I ran out of money and time. I am wondering how different thing looked between Late Sept of 1979 versus Mid May of 2001. I never contacted the Fazio's for pictures and things - I just went by what the media produced and what I saw 1979 versus 2001. When I was there in 2001 w/a TV crew - something was NOT right and I got upset - something did NOT feel right and no one would let me think - too many questions fired at me and I needed quiet and peace to think and to remember. It was just too hectic. If Cooper hid money in WA - why did he do that? Was he only able to make it out with what he could put into his pockets? That strange trip to see Richard (Paperlegs) Petersen in Landon WY figures into this some way, but just how ????? That trip was after we went to WA in 1979 if my memory serves me (the only way of knowing for sure is to find out when the road closed between Rock Springs and Cheyenne due to a blizzard we got trapped by. Damn I just remembered something else - I asked Duane if he got to see the man, but he said he left something for him...I remembered this briefly in the past, but forgot about it in all the yrs of seeking - I told this to the thread, but never to the FBI because they just wouldn't talk to me - most of the time all I could do was leave a message and I doubt they even listened to the recording or if the recordings where blanks and I was talking to myself. I would bet the FBI did not get in touch with Paperlegs' widow who might have remembered Duane from the days of 1962 to 1964 when the ex claimed they knew Paperlegs. Duane was Johnny Collins in the day...she also claimed to have a picture of her with his wife near that place called "IN Plane Site". I forget the name so I just call it "In Plane Site". Old woman has rambled on enough for now - no one cares but me so I don't know why I bother. Everyone chooses to think or believe I just made all of this SHIT up. I haven't made up on world - NOT one word! ALL of this REALLY happened - does any part of it make Duane L. Weber - Dan Cooper? Hell I don't know -I just try to tell what I know and hope someone - anyone with put it together and help me put an end to this quest. If he wasn't Cooper he damn well knew who was - maybe he buried Cooper - who knows? I don't know - I just know I didn't make any of this up and that he obviously didn't make up all of the things he told me over an 18 yr period of time. It all fits in REAL time and REAL events in his life and our life and in to his life before me. I am a living human being who is trying to find out who the HELL I married and WHY he told me some crazy things - Things that I had NO reason to think I would ever need to remember. Do not know why I even bother as it only sets me up for ridicule and it has ruined my life and used up my life....it has made me withdraw from society and to become some what of a recluse. I was a normal happy widow who had just made a very very high score on the Fl Real Estate Exam, until that day in May of 1996 when read that book and found out D. B. Cooper was Dan Cooper. It is a time when I wish my memory was NOT so good and I wish to hell I had never mused over the things he had told me and had just discarded them, but I didn't and I want to know the answers.... I need to know the answers! I wish and I wish but for what - if I had 2 months in WA would I be able to remember more - I doubt it. Would I be able to get the FBI to listen to me - I doubt it. Do I have enough time to see it thru - I doubt it. Am I smart enough to be able to communicate what I know to someone in an orderly fashion so I would be heard - I doubt it. This thread is probably all I will leave behind and hope that someone will put this together someday and vindicate me and my reputation so eveyone won't think I am just that crazy old delusional woman who claims her husband was Dan Cooper. I have fought a hard and long battle and I am tired and it is so unfair the FBI just shut me out and yet they SWALLOWED the DL Cooper Story hook and sinker. Trying to make the FBI and others to hear me and really dig into the past of Weber has cost me my health and used up my life...not to mention my finances. As Orange would say it was MY CHOICE. It was MY CHOICE to see that JUSTICE was done and I have WAGE a battle for justice. I am not defeated, but I won't win the battle, because of time and the access to materials and information that has been denied to me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MeyerLouie 5 #35339 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. several have said they would toss the "X" chute, can we believe Cooper did? if I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone ----------------------------------------------------------- It seems somewhat probable that the "X" chute would have been found by now if tossed. That tiny little placard card from the aft stairway was found afterall. True, the "X" chute is bigger, bulkier, so there's more chance of it getting hung up in a briar patch or treetop. It seems to me,though, DBC would have been more apt to toss the briefcase -- since it was so bulky and awkward to carry and stap on -- unless the briefcase served a useful purpose -- like carrying some of the money, or harboring a homing device, or carrying the road flares for a starting a fire later. If DBC tossed either or both, then they're still out there, and if you find 'em, you're going to be famous. One more thing: in Mr. H's book, page 125, Fank Heyl, survival expert, says DBC could easily have taken the "X" chute --for survival purposes after the landing. It's part of military training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #35340 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Guess I must be the only one who thinks of these things. Jeez Blevins, where would we be without you. Lol...Farflung was right... there are mysteries greater than the Pyramids of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon and DB Cooper. But enough about you.... 377 might very well agree with you and he knows a lot more about jumping than you or I, but I don't believe he backed into the blast. .. 377 has jumped from a jet - Blevins has only jumped from his ego. But others have jumped jets and the 727. There are data points on both sides. Amazon certainly trumps both Blevins and 377, in a BIG way. I would listen to her - she said - 'I would look for lights to spot with'. Hmmmm. Neither 377 of Blevins said that! Now we know who's the pro and who dreams ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #35341 November 3, 2012 Behind and above the Ingram find was a retention ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into that ditch which at least on paper had the potential to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its contents in the money, in that agri setting?”Quote QUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? Here are some photos beginning with a 2008? photo with ditch marked with yellow arrows - the find location red arrow. So I went back to those usgs photos, 1970-79, and the only 1980s photo I have. The ditch is there in Sluggo's 1980s photos but is it there before 1980? Im really not sure! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #35328 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. Would you have pulled the rip cord while still on the stairs? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35329 November 3, 2012 I know a C-9 will handle that kind of speed.. but MAN that would give you a good reality check( I have a few hundred jumps on C-9 Canopies).... I have been known to deploy some canopies at higher than rated speed and it is NOT pleasant. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=983377;search_string=Blew%20up;#983377 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #35330 November 3, 2012 QuoteOne of the problems some folks have around here is an inability to put themselves in the shoes of the hijacker. I have no such problem and I've done it many times. Blevins, Please elaborate on the above. What is the source of your data for what the hijacker would be thinking and considering? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #35331 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. several have said they would toss the "X" chute, can we believe Cooper did? if I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #35332 November 3, 2012 I remembered something about the place Duane took me that I believe to be Tena's bar. (would love to see some pictures of the front of the house from 1979 or 1980). Duane pointed across the water from the parking lot after he got back to the area I was waiting for him....He stated as he pointed across the river and told me he used to know a man who lived in the area across the way - all I saw was low land and sky. What area could he possibly have been pointing at? What would have been his reason of saying anything or going to the river by himself. In 1979 - the money had not been found at Tena's bar and I knew nothing about Cooper. If he did NOT have a connection to the area - WHY did he go there and Why did he take me to specific places? Perhaps it is a combination of the conversations going on and the fact that I feel REALLY LOUSY tonight - I am reflecting on that part of the trip and the QUESTION just popped into my mind. The question gave me a really very sick sick feeling and I do not understand why. I want you guys to know that I speak from my gut and my heart right now and I am not playing any kind of game with this question. I need an answer to this question - one I have never asked myself or anyone else - WHY that location? What was Duane's connection to that specific location? Why would he choose that place to go to and then the dam money show up in the area 8 months later. TOO odd that the places Duane took me all had connections to the past and to Cooper. A man he used to know - Who was that man - was it himself? I doubt Duane was that philosophical so it has to be a simple answer. So many questions that would be so easy to answer if only we knew Duane's locations in the area from 1945 to 1949... If he was encarcerated it sure was a liberal encarceration and he seemed like the memories were GOOD memories - like they were the highlight of his life and yet he told me so little - basically nothing - like when he mentioned flying into and out of certain little airports in the area. I forgot the statement he made as we were in OR going past the location not too far from the Redmond airport. It had "guys" in it and something "he couldn't talk about". I have told the story about the Redmond area before, but tonight I just do not feel well enough to try and remember anymore. Hope someone can fill me in on some reasons right now - What was his connection to the Tena Bar area and who was the man.In my memory I think he said a name, but I can't pull it out. He mentioned an area, but again I can't pull it out of my memory.... This memory is giving me such a sick feeling....I have heard that in stressful times one recalls things they thought they had forgot...they seen thing in their mind they thought they had forgot. Have to go the sick feeling is not just words right now. Bye!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #35333 November 3, 2012 Quote Guess I must be the only one who thinks of these things. Jeez Blevins, where would we be without you. Lol...Farflung was right... there are mysteries greater than the Pyramids of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon and DB Cooper. But enough about you.... 377 might very well agree with you and he knows a lot more about jumping than you or I, but I don't believe he backed into the blast. Not sure that it adds anything to the equation whether he jumped forward, backed off or butt walked down those stairs - but I just don't believe that someone would give up the small measure of control (Control = looking to see what you are getting yourself into) that they do have in this particular situation by jumping out backwards. Especially with a load and especially if the exit was kind of cramped. Have you calculated how far down he would have had to go before his full weight opened the door to max? What about holding on to the sides? Where's the source that Flight 305 had no hydraulics in play? I'm sure you are referencing old posts but I can't find it. Backing out...gut instinct says no - not seeing it, but each to his own since we'll never know for sure..but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #35334 November 3, 2012 Quote I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL nice Quote If I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone Do not know who said what, but if I had to go down I guess it would be like Duane's dream. From the position he was reaching up with his hand as he extended while screaming " I left my prints on the aft stairs - I'm going to die" then a blood curdling scream. WOW now I really really have to go - that mean UGHHH! Is there an icon for head in toilet?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MeyerLouie 5 #35335 November 3, 2012 QuoteIt seems pretty clear from my research what happened here. Cooper jumped just north of Battleground. Shocked from the cold, confused by the chute, disoriented by the darkness, he splashed down either in Salmon Creek or one of her tributaries. Never opened the chute - dead at impact. His corpse floats downstream overnight along the Salmon River. By sunrise the body is filling with water and begins to sink, dragged slowly along the bottom into Lake River. Days, perhaps a week or more, passes. The body and the money along are dragged along the bottom. The drawstring opens and the money spills out just as Lake River flows into the Columbia. WHY WOULD THE MONEY SPILL OUT RIGHT HERE, JUST AT THIS MOMENT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. The body, freed from the anchor of the money bag, floats to the surface one night and is discharged into the Pacific Ocean. Some of the money travels up the Columbia very slowly if at all. Tidal actions and low flow during the winter time causes the Columbia to reverse flow and deposits the money on Tena Bar where in time it is covered first in snow and later in sand. It is found 9 years later. IF THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, THEN HOW DID THE 3 BUNDLES OF MONEY HAPPEN TO END UP TOGETHER IN A 1'X1' AREA ON THE BEACH, IN THE SAND, TOGETHER, AT TENA'S BAR, WITH RUBBER BAND ON TWO OF THE BUNDLES IN TACT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. Everything else is lost. Cooper is fish food, and the rest of the money is either completely deteriorated or washed out to sea itself. I know it doesn't sound as sexy as Cooper landing, getting away, and secretly burying the money on a deserted sandbar, but it is far more logical. Thoughts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MeyerLouie 5 #35336 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. several have said they would toss the "X" chute, can we believe Cooper did? if I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone ----------------------------------------------------------- It seems somewhat probable that the "X" chute would have been found by now if tossed. That tiny little placard card from the aft stairway was found afterall. True, the "X" chute is bigger, bulkier, so there's more chance of it getting hung up in a briar patch or treetop. It seems to me,though, DBC would have been more apt to toss the briefcase -- since it was so bulky and awkward to carry and stap on -- unless the briefcase served a useful purpose -- like carrying some of the money, or harboring a homing device, or carrying the road flares for a starting a fire later. If DBC tossed either or both, then they're still out there, and if you find 'em, you're going to be famous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #35337 November 3, 2012 377 has previously commented on the strength of some military parachute canopies. However, pulling the rip cord on the stairs at 225 MPH may be a bit to much in my opinion. Robert99 Recall several of the chutes arrived with instructions and packing cards. According to Tina, he said he didnt need any instructions and tossed them. He then opened and examined the chutes and pulled the packing cards - yes? He tossed the packing cards on the floor but, before doing so glanced or looked at them, long enough to read them. Its the juxtapositon of throwing the instructions away instamtly with the remark 'I dont need them" then not just opening to chutes to look inside, but looking at the packing cards long enough to read them - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #35338 November 3, 2012 Quote WHY WOULD THE MONEY SPILL OUT RIGHT HERE, JUST AT THIS MOMENT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. IF THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, THEN HOW DID THE 3 BUNDLES OF MONEY HAPPEN TO END UP TOGETHER IN A 1'X1' AREA ON THE BEACH, IN THE SAND, TOGETHER, AT TENA'S BAR, WITH RUBBER BAND ON TWO OF THE BUNDLES IN TACT? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING? SLIM TO NONE? I THINK SO. Louie I really agree with that statement and I have to add that even though there are those who think I am a liar - I have told the same story for 17 yrs plus about the house and the gate and the trees. The house someone put on the site with a map didn't look right - not what I saw in 1979 and May of 2001. In 2001 it had changed and that bugs me - I did NOT go back in 2010 as I ran out of money and time. I am wondering how different thing looked between Late Sept of 1979 versus Mid May of 2001. I never contacted the Fazio's for pictures and things - I just went by what the media produced and what I saw 1979 versus 2001. When I was there in 2001 w/a TV crew - something was NOT right and I got upset - something did NOT feel right and no one would let me think - too many questions fired at me and I needed quiet and peace to think and to remember. It was just too hectic. If Cooper hid money in WA - why did he do that? Was he only able to make it out with what he could put into his pockets? That strange trip to see Richard (Paperlegs) Petersen in Landon WY figures into this some way, but just how ????? That trip was after we went to WA in 1979 if my memory serves me (the only way of knowing for sure is to find out when the road closed between Rock Springs and Cheyenne due to a blizzard we got trapped by. Damn I just remembered something else - I asked Duane if he got to see the man, but he said he left something for him...I remembered this briefly in the past, but forgot about it in all the yrs of seeking - I told this to the thread, but never to the FBI because they just wouldn't talk to me - most of the time all I could do was leave a message and I doubt they even listened to the recording or if the recordings where blanks and I was talking to myself. I would bet the FBI did not get in touch with Paperlegs' widow who might have remembered Duane from the days of 1962 to 1964 when the ex claimed they knew Paperlegs. Duane was Johnny Collins in the day...she also claimed to have a picture of her with his wife near that place called "IN Plane Site". I forget the name so I just call it "In Plane Site". Old woman has rambled on enough for now - no one cares but me so I don't know why I bother. Everyone chooses to think or believe I just made all of this SHIT up. I haven't made up on world - NOT one word! ALL of this REALLY happened - does any part of it make Duane L. Weber - Dan Cooper? Hell I don't know -I just try to tell what I know and hope someone - anyone with put it together and help me put an end to this quest. If he wasn't Cooper he damn well knew who was - maybe he buried Cooper - who knows? I don't know - I just know I didn't make any of this up and that he obviously didn't make up all of the things he told me over an 18 yr period of time. It all fits in REAL time and REAL events in his life and our life and in to his life before me. I am a living human being who is trying to find out who the HELL I married and WHY he told me some crazy things - Things that I had NO reason to think I would ever need to remember. Do not know why I even bother as it only sets me up for ridicule and it has ruined my life and used up my life....it has made me withdraw from society and to become some what of a recluse. I was a normal happy widow who had just made a very very high score on the Fl Real Estate Exam, until that day in May of 1996 when read that book and found out D. B. Cooper was Dan Cooper. It is a time when I wish my memory was NOT so good and I wish to hell I had never mused over the things he had told me and had just discarded them, but I didn't and I want to know the answers.... I need to know the answers! I wish and I wish but for what - if I had 2 months in WA would I be able to remember more - I doubt it. Would I be able to get the FBI to listen to me - I doubt it. Do I have enough time to see it thru - I doubt it. Am I smart enough to be able to communicate what I know to someone in an orderly fashion so I would be heard - I doubt it. This thread is probably all I will leave behind and hope that someone will put this together someday and vindicate me and my reputation so eveyone won't think I am just that crazy old delusional woman who claims her husband was Dan Cooper. I have fought a hard and long battle and I am tired and it is so unfair the FBI just shut me out and yet they SWALLOWED the DL Cooper Story hook and sinker. Trying to make the FBI and others to hear me and really dig into the past of Weber has cost me my health and used up my life...not to mention my finances. As Orange would say it was MY CHOICE. It was MY CHOICE to see that JUSTICE was done and I have WAGE a battle for justice. I am not defeated, but I won't win the battle, because of time and the access to materials and information that has been denied to me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MeyerLouie 5 #35339 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I don't disagree with going down the stairs backwards, even the stuntman in the movie went down backwards, what he did past that point is all theory, I would tend to believe a jumper for implying how the safest way to do it was, but, it is still all theory. best case scenario would fit better than "the safest way" Even as old and decrepit as I am.. I could do that jump and survive.. given the same gear. AND the same conditions. THOUSANDS of US Army Air Corp personnel saved their lives by bailing from their shot up aircraft .. many of them in far worse weather with aircraft far harder to get out of. Most of them ended up as POW's. agreed, let me ask this, how would you have done the jump? and what would you have done with the "X" chute? I would go down the stairs so I could look down and forward looking for any light coming up thru the clouds..to give me an idea of the "spot". But then again I only have about 30 or so night jumps I have jumped a few times with some "industrial haze" and if there is light below.. it lights up the "industrial haze" REAL niceThe X reserve would be tossed I know what a good reserve looks like.. I have a similar rig to what he jumped and have at least 3 belly warts out in the loft. several have said they would toss the "X" chute, can we believe Cooper did? if I was in his spot and didn't have much knowledge of jumping, I probably would have went down the stairs sideways with both hands on one rail, as for the "style" of leaving the stairs? since I'm not a jumper, I think I''ll leave that one alone ----------------------------------------------------------- It seems somewhat probable that the "X" chute would have been found by now if tossed. That tiny little placard card from the aft stairway was found afterall. True, the "X" chute is bigger, bulkier, so there's more chance of it getting hung up in a briar patch or treetop. It seems to me,though, DBC would have been more apt to toss the briefcase -- since it was so bulky and awkward to carry and stap on -- unless the briefcase served a useful purpose -- like carrying some of the money, or harboring a homing device, or carrying the road flares for a starting a fire later. If DBC tossed either or both, then they're still out there, and if you find 'em, you're going to be famous. One more thing: in Mr. H's book, page 125, Fank Heyl, survival expert, says DBC could easily have taken the "X" chute --for survival purposes after the landing. It's part of military training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #35340 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote Guess I must be the only one who thinks of these things. Jeez Blevins, where would we be without you. Lol...Farflung was right... there are mysteries greater than the Pyramids of Giza, Hanging Gardens of Babylon and DB Cooper. But enough about you.... 377 might very well agree with you and he knows a lot more about jumping than you or I, but I don't believe he backed into the blast. .. 377 has jumped from a jet - Blevins has only jumped from his ego. But others have jumped jets and the 727. There are data points on both sides. Amazon certainly trumps both Blevins and 377, in a BIG way. I would listen to her - she said - 'I would look for lights to spot with'. Hmmmm. Neither 377 of Blevins said that! Now we know who's the pro and who dreams ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #35341 November 3, 2012 Behind and above the Ingram find was a retention ditch on Fazio's property. Rain washed things into that ditch which at least on paper had the potential to contaminate evertyhing below and down-flow of it. Is there evidence of the retention ditch and its contents in the money, in that agri setting?”Quote QUESTION: Was not the trench from the Retention pond - WEST of the money find? Here are some photos beginning with a 2008? photo with ditch marked with yellow arrows - the find location red arrow. So I went back to those usgs photos, 1970-79, and the only 1980s photo I have. The ditch is there in Sluggo's 1980s photos but is it there before 1980? Im really not sure! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35342 November 3, 2012 QuoteOne more thing: in Mr. H's book, page 125, Fank Heyl, survival expert, says DBC could easily have taken the "X" chute --for survival purposes after the landing. It's part of military training. No need to take a third chute for survival. if there is a main and a reserve plus the containers and lines for both you have a hell of a lot of material to "improvise" with. I have trained hundreds of college boys how to cut up C-9 canopies for making shelters( A-frame or lean-to or full blown teepees) and clothing out of. Risers make great pack straps... and belts... we even taught them how to make multi-strand ropes out of suspension lines..... the list is endless with what you can make. Plus.. no one in their right mind would bail and try to hold onto the damn thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #35343 November 3, 2012 Happy 12th Anniversary Trivial pursuit time: Keeping it simple ala FF, I did a quick search for "Cooper" just in the skydiving History & trivia forum. The first mention of Cooper, DB Cooper, was Nov 3, 2000 in a post by jtval. That thread meandered along with relatively few posts a year until it was revived Jan 28 2006 by Orange1. There were other familiar posters on that original thread also, including Skyjack. She first posted to that thread on Nov 12, 2006 about Duane, then she started a new thread (the 68 page one preceding this one) Nov 21, 2006 cause she "kept getting lost" trying to post. Why does it matter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUVgkXVDkBA What if someone had buried a bunch of banded dollars on Tina bar or vicinity when this discussion first started, or 6 years ago - or even later during all the discussions there have been about the buried money? Or did they? Hmmm. Bet not. Damn. I'm too stingy with my money to do it - plus my bugs, sand, and river water are probably different than those on the west coast Any takers - we'll probably still be talking about this stuff in 9 more years if the Mayans don't get us - so you could be the star of the show in 2021. Come on...it's only money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5ooaufrLMbut....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCharger 0 #35344 November 3, 2012 Well, no, I cannot prove it opened up here and you cannot prove it didn't. Really where it opened up is irrelevant. The money came from Salmon Creek and ended up on Tens Bar by natural means. Also there is no proof that the bundles were found neatly stacked together. Lastly, if you think the money WAS buried, the question remains...WHY? What earthly reason was it buried on someone else's private property just feet from the water? Would DB, who had everything else meticulously planned, do something this stupid? Slim to none. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #35345 November 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteOne more thing: in Mr. H's book, page 125, Fank Heyl, survival expert, says DBC could easily have taken the "X" chute --for survival purposes after the landing. It's part of military training. No need to take a third chute for survival. if there is a main and a reserve plus the containers and lines for both you have a hell of a lot of material to "improvise" with. I have trained hundreds of college boys how to cut up C-9 canopies for making shelters( A-frame or lean-to or full blown teepees) and clothing out of. Risers make great pack straps... and belts... we even taught them how to make multi-strand ropes out of suspension lines..... the list is endless with what you can make. Plus.. no one in their right mind would bail and try to hold onto the damn thing. Carrying the "X" chute would have just taken up space that was not in surplus anyway. Not to mention if it had little or no useful contents, why risk it? IF, "Cooper" had training, I think he would have at least made the exit, after looking for his spot, by doing a nice poised step back launch, slowed a bit to freefall terminal and then pulled. I may only have a limited number of 727 jumps, but I have plenty of big jet jumps, and even a few at higher then optimal exit speed, I would not pull on the steps unless that plane was inflames and REALLY REALLY REALLY low! And even then I might ride the forward throw! (OK, I probably would, sub 500' exits are in my log book, I am comfortable with it in the right circumstance) MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35346 November 3, 2012 Quote OK, I probably would, sub 500' exits are in my log book, I am comfortable with it in the right circumstance Yeah doing those at night helps so you can't see just how fast the ground is ripping by you and just how BIG everything on the ground looks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #35347 November 3, 2012 Quote Quote OK, I probably would, sub 500' exits are in my log book, I am comfortable with it in the right circumstance Yeah doing those at night helps so you can't see just how fast the ground is ripping by you and just how BIG everything on the ground looks. I just close my eyes!MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #35348 November 3, 2012 I wish there was an easier way to put this dry boring stuff into something action packed and boner inducing, but I’m not a creative writer and am doomed to live with as many facts as I can find. Geroger semi-quotes: “He then opened and examined the chutes and pulled the packing cards - yes? He tossed the packing cards on the floor but, before doing so glanced or looked at them, long enough to read them. Its the juxtapositon of throwing the instructions away instamtly with the remark 'I dont need them" then not just opening to chutes to look inside, but looking at the packing cards long enough to read them –“ I’ve asked in the past what experience Tina had with parachutes and was surprised (not) that I got no response. I’ll assume (assume here) that this was likely the first time she had touched a parachute. With that assumption in hand, I gave a relatively light weighting to her opinion regarding Cooper’s handling of the equipment. This of course did not detract from her scorching hot physique and kitten with a whip persona. Time to try (I will fail again) to reconstruct with some available facts. Cossey packed both of the back pack, emergency aircrew, parachutes. The reserve chutes came from a different person who was not a rigger or jumper. Did Cooper “check” the data cards? If he checked the data cards on the reserve chute, then he would have known it was a training dummy. Why did he take that with him? If he chucked it because he was angry it was a dummy, then he would have worn the chute he jacked in the plane. Instead he sacrificed the “good”(?) chute as a supply of some line to tie the money up. Chucking the other chute as a diversion would be weak, since it would be attached (presumably) to the primary rig. If he took the dummy reserve, it appears implausible that he checked the data card (packing card). This is just deductive reasoning and nothing more, there’s plenty of room for a herd of unicorns. This leaves the back chutes. If (IF here, just if) the parachutes were pack at the same time, the data cards from the primary chute should be the same or very similar. So take a look at the surviving data card from Hayden’s (assuming this is the other chute) parachute. See the date? 21 May 1971. The hijacking was on 24 November 1971. Right away any aircrew or jumper would recognize a wee problem which may induce a wee wee. Here’s where I adjust some weightings assigned to Tina and DB. Did Tina likely observe Cooper reading data cards where he ultimately selected a dummy reserve? If Cooper read the data cards as the chutes were delivered on the plane, why did he select a dummy or accept the back chutes which were last inspected on 21 May 1971? Is this something an experienced jumper would do or fail to plan for? Heady and McCoy brought their own chutes to avoid that problem, but risked being identified via their equipment if it was found (and it was for McCoy). I’m not seeing the effects of people reacting to what they are reported as doing. Reading data cards and being observed reading them. But I’m sure there’s a perfectly complex explanation as to why this would take place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #35349 November 3, 2012 QuoteWell, no, I cannot prove it opened up here and you cannot prove it didn't. Really where it opened up is irrelevant. The money came from Salmon Creek and ended up on Tens Bar by natural means. Also there is no proof that the bundles were found neatly stacked together. Lastly, if you think the money WAS buried, the question remains...WHY? What earthly reason was it buried on someone else's private property just feet from the water? Would DB, who had everything else meticulously planned, do something this stupid? Slim to none. first of all I don't think a small creek would carry the money the entire route to Vancouver lake, second, how can you say Cooper "had everything else meticulously planned" did he give instructions on where to fly other than Mexico? evidence shows it's possible he was going to jump very early into the flight. what part of Salmon creek do you think he landed in? could you provide a map?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #35350 November 3, 2012 Also there is no proof that the bundles were found neatly stacked together. "Neatly stacked to perfection" apparently comes from writer Geoff Gray vis Blevins because there is nothing on the CS website that says that and Tom provides a diagram documenting some of the bills were at angles to each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
