DB Cooper

[georger 197]

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So, unlike money and a placard, a body outgasses. The decay byproducts can be detected at a distance. A body on land should have been found, but it wasn't... or at least it wasnt reported.

No body, no canopy, no harness or container.

Robert99

The same applies to hobo camps - people go
missing there. It didnt apply in 71 because nobody
was really looking for Cooper in the back areas of
Portland -Vancouver, but when the money surfaced
at Tina Bar in 1980 a number of LE people began to
wonder if Cooper had made it down to Vancouver,
only to be waylayed and deprived of his cash bag,
which was a common occurence around the hobo
encampments along the river ... but too late to
even make inquiries, in 1980.

There are as many 'scavangers' of the two legged
type as there are four; actually more!

• Quote

[377 21]

Geroger wrote

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You sure hope DB Cooper got away. !

Do you say that in front of Judges, Mr. Attorney !?
Do you think this is a game for uninvolved
spectators, like yourself and RobertMBlevins?
Something to add to your collection of trophies?

I can assure you, that wasn't how it was on Nov 24th
1971 and in the days following.

How nice you have your "hobbies", at no expense to
others -

I wouldn't be afraid to tell a judge that I hope DB Cooper survived. I'll bet some of them have the same feelings, but they are not as free to say so. I have personally heard two former FBI agents say they hoped he made it.

Yes, I do see this as a hobby and a game for uninvolved spectators. Do you have a problem with that? The degree of involvement in the DBC mystery is optional. You can go deep or shallow. Which path have you chosen?

Do you hope Cooper died Georger? Why? If you were in the left seat of 305 would you have detoured over the Pacific and let DBC become crab food? I wouldnt have.

Don't lump me in with Blevins. We are different people with different approaches to the DBC mystery. Just because I dont hate him like you do doesnt make me his twin.

You get so worked up over minor things Georger. Nothing on this forum is worth elevating your blood pressure over. Nothing.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BobKnoss 0]

"Anyone know what happened to Jerry Thomas? He used to [be] such a regular here."

Yah, I convinced him that he had a good day job and should not harass Jo any more. I offered to expose his identity. It is best he is not here. Great guy, really. The JT persona just does not fit him.

[Amazon 7]

Lets play with some floaters...When the Columbia Gives up her dead.

4 Weeks
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2012/nov/04/body-recovered-from-columbia-river-bridge-accident/

Only a week
http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/aug/25/body-found-columbia-river-near-hayden-island/

December 5 to June 3 near Woodland WA
http://www.camaspostrecord.com/news/2012/jun/08/body-found-columbia-river-missing-camas-man/

May to July

http://www.ncwtv.com/body-recovered-in-columbia-river-believed-to-be-missing-girl-3669/

Swimming in the Columbia..
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Eugene-mans-body-recovered-from-Columbia-River/J41moHw3QkKhfNg__2ItLw.cspx

Couple weeks
http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/22702729.html

http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/Body-found-in-Columbia-River-believed-to-be-missing-man/-/101214/16268578/-/6x3non/-/index.html

http://www.kgw.com/news/Body-found-near-Columbia-River-beach-128843953.html

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-151771672/body-found-river-identified.html

So many floaters

[Amazon 7]

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"Anyone know what happened to Jerry Thomas? He used to [be] such a regular here."

Yah, I convinced him that he had a good day job and should not harass Jo any more. I offered to expose his identity. It is best he is not here. Great guy, really. The JT persona just does not fit him.

Bob dear.. your villiage is looking for you....

[mrshutter45 21]

ZERO Credibility....Good Day

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

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"Anyone know what happened to Jerry Thomas? He used to [be] such a regular here."

Yah, I convinced him that he had a good day job and should not harass Jo any more. I offered to expose his identity. It is best he is not here. Great guy, really. The JT persona just does not fit him.

Bob dear.. your villiage is looking for you....

Not too hard, apparently he has upset them too.

Maybe I had talk with a "Young - lawyer - esquire the third" from BK's neck of the woods. Maybe He did a full 180 after our 45 minute phone call and an e-mail exchange, including, maybe, screen shots from this thread.

Maybe he now He thinks his "preemptive" discussion, was misguided. Maybe, He is now not sure he can even mount a defensive discussion. Maybe.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[377 21]

Can a lawyer really cool BKs jets? Powerful stuff.

Speaking of lawyers, I am surprised Geraldo Rivera (who actually is an attorney) hasnt entered the DBC world.

He has made TV specials on a safe from the Titanic, a sealed room from the Al Capone era, and the list goes on.

He could make a whole show out of the Amboy chute or a board spanning some rafters in Kenny's attic. Facts never get in his way. That allegedly unopened safe that he had (displayed in a shark tank no less) was shown in a salvage photo taken before the TV event with a rusted out hole in the back surface.

He could actually stir up some interest by pursuing TK's tie-tanium clues.

No such thing as bad publicity for the Cooper case. All publicity is good. The memory needs to be kept alive. Someday, somewhere, somebody will remember something or find something that could solve the case, but without knowledge of the case it might mean nothing to them.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

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Can a lawyer really cool BKs jets? Powerful stuff.

Speaking of lawyers, I am surprised Geraldo Rivera (who actually is an attorney) hasnt entered the DBC world.

He has made TV specials on a safe from the Titanic, a sealed room from the Al Capone era, and the list goes on.

He could make a whole show out of the Amboy chute or a board spanning some rafters in Kenny's attic. Facts never get in his way. That allegedly unopened safe that he had (displayed in a shark tank no less) was shown in a salvage photo taken before the TV event with a rusted out hole in the back surface.

He could actually stir up some interest by pursuing TK's tie-tanium clues.

No such thing as bad publicity for the Cooper case. All publicity is good. The memory needs to be kept alive. Someday, somewhere, somebody will remember something or find something that could solve the case, but without knowledge of the case it might mean nothing to them.

377

I agree, I think DBC would be right up Geraldo's alley!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P84OKTUx6LY

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

I am told that the Tianic safe opening show was "inspired" by Geralso Rivera but that he did not appear in the production.

Its called "docutainment."

Marla may get a second chance.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

I’m going to guess that ‘floaters’ are the product of a SET of CONDITIONS which are required in order to exist. I’ve had to attend more than enough safety and crash analysis training, to make anyone puke. Looking at hundreds of images from various deceleration catastrophes should be enough to make anyone think a trillion times, before ending up like one of those pathetic souls.

Here’s something closer to Earth:

http://www.voxxi.com/golden-gate-bridge-suicide-rates/

The good old Golden Gate Bridge has its share of floaters as well. Last year the coroner examined 23 bodies from an estimated 37 jumpers. Estimated since a person could jump undetected, and sink to the bottom of the bay. But from this weenie altitude, 38 percent manage to rupture and collapse the bags (lungs, intestines, stomach, bowels) which fill with gas to create a ‘floater’. I would imagine the injury from falling down a flight of stairs would present a vastly different set of traumas, compared to a body falling from a ten story building.

Now for some more boring, attributed data. Bodies or lumps of DNA, can be successfully recovered from air crashes thanks to science, funding, a national priority to study such events, and submersible equipment. But the recovery rate runs the gamut depending on the site and type of crash.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Passenger_Plane_Crashes_at_Sea

It is human nature to embrace affinity, which is precisely why double blinds and cross checks are so important in the professional community. The reason for the loathing in this particular subject is somewhat of a mystery, but money and ego usually points me towards the right answer.

Cooper either opened his chute, and drowned thus becoming a potential ‘floater’, or he was a no-pull where physics and well documented case studies show the likelihood of floating being less than 10%.

This is in partial answer to 377’s query of:

“Speculate about Cooper splashing as a no pull….”

ATFQ

[mrshutter45 21]

here is one for Mr Science, what would the percentage be of him hitting water?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Farflung wrote

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The good old Golden Gate Bridge has its share of floaters as well. Last year the coroner examined 23 bodies from an estimated 37 jumpers. Estimated since a person could jump undetected, and sink to the bottom of the bay. But from this weenie altitude, 38 percent manage to rupture and collapse the bags (lungs, intestines, stomach, bowels) which fill with gas to create a ‘floater’. I would imagine the injury from falling down a flight of stairs would present a vastly different set of traumas, compared to a body falling from a ten story building.

I've probably sailed under the GG Bridge a few thousand times. My Dad's boat was berthed at Fisherman's Wharf. The tidal currents at that location can be quite fast. If someone jumps on an outgoing tide they could be a few miles out to sea in an hour. http://geosci.sfsu.edu/courses/geol103/labs/estuaries/partIIIA.html

I think many bridge jumper bodies arent recovered because they are swept out to sea where the chances of them being observed diminish rapidly unless they wash up on beach. Jumper bodies have been recovered along the coast many miles from the GG Bridge. Old fishermen told me that they occasionally saw bodies at sea and just left them alone. They told me I should do the same unless the body had fisherman's clothing on it. "We take care of our own, but don't bother if it isnt a fisherman. It's just a big hassle if you bring in a body" I was told.

I saw one body, barely bouyant, in thick fog coming out of the anchorage at Drakes Bay next to Pt. Reyes. I throttled down and turned right around but never could spot it again. It was very spooky, a stiff hand was all that protruded above the water. I'll bet it was a bridge jumper.

Fisherman who fall overboard and drown off the SF coast are rarely recovered. It isnt White Sharks that rip them up and prevent them from floating. The White Shark population is really small. Blue Sharks abound, huge population (they are everywhere) and they get up to 12 feet in length. I've seen Blues ripping up floating animal carcasess and I assume they do the same if the food is submerged. The Dungeness crabs will strip a sunk carcass very fast and that will prevent floatation.

I wonder if there is any data on no pulls who went into a body of water. Did they become floaters? What about all the jumpers who drowned in that ill fated jump over Lake Eire? 18 landed under open canopies, but 16 drowned. Shockingly, many drowned close to pleasure boats who had no idea that they were in distress. Were all 16 bodies recovered?

http://www.metafilter.com/64215/Worst-Civilian-Skydiving-Accident

I'll bet an old Coastie (USCG) who was stationed at Ft Point (SF) or Ft Baker (Sausalito) could tell you a lot about what happens to GG bridge jumper bodies. We used to refer them as the Body Snatchers.

Amazingly, some land alive and a few without any serious injuries. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42643713/ns/us_news-life/t/girl-survives-leap-golden-gate-bridge/

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Mr. Science, you are a man-god and cool and strong; what are the odds of Cooper hitting the water? Signed Mrshutter45.


That’s an excellent question and Mr. Science is more than happy to answer, just like the man-god he truly is. Let’s start using the entire journey as a roulette wheel and try to establish some of the odds. Mr. Science likes to use gambling as an analogy because casinos are notorious for free booze and deep cleavage.

DB Cooper departed SeaTac at 7:36 PM and the plane crossed the Columbia at 8:17 to 8:19 PM or a raw total of 43 minutes. It takes approximately 10 seconds to cross the Columbia or 1 in 6 chance per minute, or 1 in 258, assuming equal weighting from take off to Oregon. But Mr. Science knows that Cooper was in the plane for some amount of time.

Mr. Science notices that Tina is in the cockpit at 7:54 after having left Cooper. This reduces the total minute count to 25. Or the odds of hitting the Columbia at 1/150. Mr. Science thinks those are low odds as a standalone data point, and thinks the odds vastly out favor landing on the ground.

Mr. Science is also familiar with histograms which offer a different perspective on a micro level. Mr. Science has crafted an amazingly brilliant graphic to illustrate this point. If Cooper was a no-pull, the distribution of odds become skewed in suburbia since there are many, self-important, busy bodies living there. The odds of Cooper landing on a roof, sidewalk or road, and NOT being discovered, are remote indeed. Mr. Science then has to render the last minute into the essence of what is clearly pure genius, mixed with public domain information free for all to enjoy, or detest and despise.

The last minute is comprised of suburbia (mostly) and the ten second Columbia crossing (duh, Mr. Science) to state the obvious. But given the high probability of detection for 50 seconds of that minute over suburbia, the odds of landing in the water, for that last minute, goes up. Mr. Science has angered many with this statement but doesn’t care. If Cooper jumped at 8:18, then the odd of hitting the Columbia, based upon detection, is likely 90% or higher, based upon the dynamic nature of the river and the limited area to plant one’s self in the burbs and not be found.

So Mr. Science feels the odds of hitting water would be 1 in 150, or less. I hope you have enjoyed the astonishingly bright answer Mr. Science has crafted. And remember, when you need an answer that is logical, simple and honest, you can always; Ask Mr. Science!

[mrshutter45 21]

Thanks Mr. Science, that's kind of what I figured, I thought I would check the numbers on crossing the Columbia and sure enough Mr. Science is correct again, took me 10.5 seconds @ 180 Knots to cross the river.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

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Thanks Mr. Science, that's kind of what I figured, I thought I would check the numbers on crossing the Columbia and sure enough Mr. Science is correct again, took me 10.5 seconds @ 180 Knots to cross the river.

I have something to add from all too personal observation.. I have seen more than one skydiver "go in" either as no pulls or under streamers.. essentially at full speed. In no instance did the skydiver explode.. One under the streamer I tried to give CPR to... the second one I saw.. I did not bother

[Robert99 37]

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Mr. Science, you are a man-god and cool and strong; what are the odds of Cooper hitting the water? Signed Mrshutter45.


That’s an excellent question and Mr. Science is more than happy to answer, just like the man-god he truly is. Let’s start using the entire journey as a roulette wheel and try to establish some of the odds. Mr. Science likes to use gambling as an analogy because casinos are notorious for free booze and deep cleavage.

DB Cooper departed SeaTac at 7:36 PM and the plane crossed the Columbia at 8:17 to 8:19 PM or a raw total of 43 minutes. It takes approximately 10 seconds to cross the Columbia or 1 in 6 chance per minute, or 1 in 258, assuming equal weighting from take off to Oregon. But Mr. Science knows that Cooper was in the plane for some amount of time.

Mr. Science notices that Tina is in the cockpit at 7:54 after having left Cooper. This reduces the total minute count to 25. Or the odds of hitting the Columbia at 1/150. Mr. Science thinks those are low odds as a standalone data point, and thinks the odds vastly out favor landing on the ground.

Mr. Science is also familiar with histograms which offer a different perspective on a micro level. Mr. Science has crafted an amazingly brilliant graphic to illustrate this point. If Cooper was a no-pull, the distribution of odds become skewed in suburbia since there are many, self-important, busy bodies living there. The odds of Cooper landing on a roof, sidewalk or road, and NOT being discovered, are remote indeed. Mr. Science then has to render the last minute into the essence of what is clearly pure genius, mixed with public domain information free for all to enjoy, or detest and despise.

The last minute is comprised of suburbia (mostly) and the ten second Columbia crossing (duh, Mr. Science) to state the obvious. But given the high probability of detection for 50 seconds of that minute over suburbia, the odds of landing in the water, for that last minute, goes up. Mr. Science has angered many with this statement but doesn’t care. If Cooper jumped at 8:18, then the odd of hitting the Columbia, based upon detection, is likely 90% or higher, based upon the dynamic nature of the river and the limited area to plant one’s self in the burbs and not be found.

So Mr. Science feels the odds of hitting water would be 1 in 150, or less. I hope you have enjoyed the astonishingly bright answer Mr. Science has crafted. And remember, when you need an answer that is logical, simple and honest, you can always; Ask Mr. Science!

Did Mr. Science discard his copy of Ovid Esbach early in his technical career?

Also, did Mr. Science serve as a consultant to Marylin in developing the "solution" to the celebrated Monty Hall Problem?

Mr. Science should make a full disclosure of his previous achievements.

Robert99

[Farflung 0]

Mr. Science fully disclosed the process used. Let the slower students review:

Ten second river crossing (Boeing 727 @ 170 kts), over a base of twenty five minutes (1500 seconds) of time, for a linear chance of one in one hundred and fifty, for Cooper to end up in the drink.

QUESTIONS?

Just remember, when you need an answer that is logical, SIMPLE AND HONEST (free of steering), you can always; Ask Mr. Science!

[Robert99 37]

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Mr. Science fully disclosed the process used. Let the slower students review:

Ten second river crossing (Boeing 727 @ 170 kts), over a base of twenty five minutes (1500 seconds) of time, for a linear chance of one in one hundred and fifty, for Cooper to end up in the drink.

QUESTIONS?

Just remember, when you need an answer that is logical, SIMPLE AND HONEST (free of steering), you can always; Ask Mr. Science!

While I agree with Mr. Science's conclusion that the chance of Cooper landing in the River is VERY small, the explanation in the penultimate paragraph of his original post is distressing.

I have consulted "Probability for Dummies", by Dr. Deborah Rumsey, which is my go-to book on the subject, and she definies (p. 9) probability as "the long-term chance that a certain outcome will occur from some random process".

Precisely what is "random" in Mr. Science's original statement of the problem? The flight path and ground speeds are given and the time interval is arbitrarily specified. To my unenlightened mind, the only parameter that is truly random is the time of Cooper's jump. It is "random" because Mr. Science does not have control over it. Nevertheless, Mr. Science specifies a time or time period for the jump.

Please advise me as to how "probability" can be applied to the problem as originally formulated.

Robert99

[MeyerLouie 5]

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"Anyone know what happened to Jerry Thomas? He used to [be] such a regular here."

Yah, I convinced him that he had a good day job and should not harass Jo any more. I offered to expose his identity. It is best he is not here. Great guy, really. The JT persona just does not fit him.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Last I heard, Jerry was pretty upset about someone on the forum revealing some personal information on the forum re: his family. He was really upset about that, still is I think. MeyerLouie

[377 21]

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Just remember, when you need an answer that is logical, SIMPLE AND HONEST (free of steering), you can always; Ask Mr. Science!

Mr. Science,

How did the Cooper money get to Tena Bar. I await your simple, honest answer. I'll sleep better once I have it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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I remember my first visit to some relatives who had a dairy. The whole place was wet with urine and feces during the wet season.. and was an unforgettable affront to every last one of my olfactory receptors.

The entire place reeked and I could not escape from that horrid agrarian experience for 4 days.

Come on Amazon surely it was not that bad or am I the tom boy here. I though you were.

Did you ever milk a cow with th cafe trying to get her share at the same time.. Then there was always the BARN Cats waiting for their serving. Then just about thr time you have taken all the milk she has to offer - she kicks the bucket...those last pulls on the tits gets a little iffy. Sorry I just remember ths fun times. I loved the farm and which I could go back and finish my life right there.
'
I don't want to die in a hospital bed all drugged up. Get me drunk and take me to the barn - let me slide sdown the loose hay and kid a cat or two for butting intio my bussines.

To sleep on the top floor with the windown open and whatch and listen to the sound of the night - the way god intended it. To touch the soft tender area above the calf nose and what her playful eyes.

I grew up in the small city near the shore of Lake Michigan.. and when the weekend rolled around we were usally fishing and boating(fresh air). Even in my earliest memories no such oderiferous places existed. Summer vacation usually meant a trip to Florida to visit relatives near the ocean and more sailing and boating( fresh sea air) with a drive thru the Great Smokey Mountains on the way( MORE fresh air).. NONE of the places we ever went to before that first dairy trip had that noxious quality to it. Most places I grew up had very nice clean air and water.


TO ALL: I just read what I wrote last night - I was feeling really really bad - It was hard tonight to make much sense out of my babbling in the above post. I have been under a lot stress and having a lot of pain. Sorry I sounded like a babbling idiot last night.

P.S. I just took a pain pill so I will probably just post this apology unless I read something beyond the above post that gets me going Been a very very bad day. I never felt this badly even after any one of my 3 surgeries during the 11 months from August of 2011 to April of 2012.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins continues his crusade for personal information with:

“Nobody cares about your name and I don't want your personal data.”

Not true. I’ve been assaulted with demands for not only my name, but my address, phone number and Social Security Number. Your attempt to attenuate those activities is telling. I would consider that some information which clearly crosses the line from information verification to just plain weirdness, and of the criminal variety, as well as your own shadowy prurient intents.



RobertMBlevins continues his illogical probing with:

“Ever thought about just qualifying yourself a bit?”

Nope. Have you? You keep trying to get yourself a license to bullshit. That’s what happens when you make things about personalities versus the information. If someone publishes the process known as the Pythagorean Theorem, and discloses the technique, what value is there in knowing his qualifications, name, or what he looks like in his underwear? What if he cleans houses for a living? I guess that makes everything he says worthless unless it is about janitorial services. Same for someone who ‘claims’ they are magna cum laude graduates from Fordham, with degrees in mathematics and says: 2+2=7. Impressed now?

How about qualifying someone a bit who ‘claims’ they were the first to drive four Clydesdales abreast and ran in the Iditarod? That would embarrass the average person enough to abandon that brain dead pursuit forever, but some people just don’t learn. Can you think of one?

God but you waste an astonishing amount of time on ego and puffing. And for what? It won’t solve the case or prove it is Kenny. Did the Columbia River reverse course so that theory about Paradise Point Park would work? Do you think knowing that your qualifications include camping and hiking, would make ME think the Columbia flows uphill? Why the constant insults? There’s a BIG, BIG world out there and they know when you are bullshitting.

It’s painfully obvious why you want your name out there. Painfully. The same way you have repeatedly brought up how YOU were the FIRST person to say that Cooper backed down the stairs. Why repeat something so silly? Are you planning a world tour to discuss your Cooper backing down the stairs, to throngs of screaming, teen-aged girls, or boys? You constantly infer georger’s name as if that is some sort of weapon. NOT as a qualifier and YOU never have used it for that purpose. Why do your statements live in a different house from your actions RobertMBlevins? That’s a great way to attract some well deserved venom.

Besides, what exactly proves you are RobertMBlevins? Is that all the information you give the banks, a hotel or police officer? You need to pony up a lot more to ‘prove’ who you are to those people. Why don’t you publish your driving license number, Social Security Number, home address and credit card number with the validation characters from the back. No charges will be made, it’s just a sign of good faith and considered polite. After all, you’ve already trusted a group of strangers at banks and hotels with that information, why stop there. Let’s see where your line of ‘stupid behavior’ lies on this subject.

You’ve got a great deal of explaining to do about what you want my information for, after I have again, refused and given reasons which include avoiding the crime of identity theft or your own weird auto-erotic fantasy. Does the very thought of me answering an unsolicited call from you, trigger some sick response with you doing God knows what to yourself?

Here’s some homework for someone soooo concerned with qualifying data. Quote or copy and paste one, just ONE, example of something I’ve offered or said, that would have been clarified by “knowing a little more about me”. That way I’ll understand why I’m criticized for “over explaining” AND publishing data which is incomprehensible without some sort of personal background, or a photograph with me vulnerably bending and wearing underwear, which barely conceal some chiseled features that constantly haunt you.

[georger 197]

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Point of order: The statement about Margaret Geestman being the first woman to drive four draft horses abreast from a sort of flat cart...that came from a newspaper article she had framed on her wall. It was an article from before 1968, some small Okanogan County newspaper. A parade she was in, I believe. That's all I can say for certain about that. Tell you the truth, at the time I read it, thought it was cool, but not a real big deal.

You spent a lot of time dancing around my basic question, (former military pilot? commercial perhaps?) and again...I couldn't care less about your name and other identifying stuff. Okay. You don't want to even give a hint about your background. Fine. I will say it's weird you tried to twist that somehow into having a fixation on you. Trust me, I don't.

I just wanted you to go on the record about that.

As far as Georger, if he calls me a liar because I said he grew up in Washington state, I have a perfect right to quote Geoff Gray...who says he did. Notice he didn't answer. Or maybe right now he's contacting Gray and asking him to change that part of the book. You think?

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Sangiro
Head Honcho
Sep 18, 2002, 6:58 AM
Post #1 of 1 (257763 views)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Troll (Internet):

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts
inflammatory,[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages
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While the word troll and its associated verb trolling
are associated with Internet discourse, media
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subjective, with trolling describing intentionally
provocative actions and harassment outside of an
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Trolling, identity, and anonymityEarly incidents of
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NetLingo suggests there are four grades of trolling:
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and domination trolling

TROLLING DEFINED: ref- Sangiro Rules:
Donath provides a concise overview of identity
deception games which trade on the confusion
between physical and epistemic community:

Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit
one that is played without the consent of most of
the players. The troll attempts to pass as a
legitimate participant, sharing the group's common
interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if
they are cognizant of trolls and other identity
deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from
trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll,
make the offending poster leave the group. Their
success at the former depends on how well they –
and the troll – understand identity cues; their
success at the latter depends on whether the troll's
enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed
by the costs imposed by the group. Trolls can be
costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the
discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice,
and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup
community. Furthermore, in a group that has
become sensitized to trolling – where the rate of
deception is high – many honestly naïve questions
may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be
quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing
a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry
accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded,
being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's
online reputation.[21]

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Quote

Just remember, when you need an answer that is logical, SIMPLE AND HONEST (free of steering), you can always; Ask Mr. Science!

Mr. Science,

How did the Cooper money get to Tena Bar. I await your simple, honest answer. I'll sleep better once I have it.

377

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Mr. Science,

377's question has been my #1 question since joining the forum. Please, what is the simple, honest answer, Mr. Science? I thirst for knowledge --new knowledge.

MeyerLouie