DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Just got off the phone with Geof Gray, He just landed in New York a few minutes ago. 377 ,Geof realy enjoyed meeting you he apoligized about the eror on the DC 9. He said to please let him know about all the mistakes you find (or any one else finds)in the book and he will correct them. Blevins he enjoyed your visit also he has nothing but good things to say about all you guys and he is glad you enjoyed the book.Jerry

[Farflung 0]

1. Read back in the thread.

This is a perennial favorite among those who take the time to contradict something yet manage to neglect the copy and paste function when looking at the source information.

2. It’s somewhere around here, I can’t find it now.

This is code for ‘I didn’t expect anyone to actually call me on this, please go away.’

3. This has already been talked about.

Yep, after 26,000 comments there are individuals who still find this to be a stunningly profound statement.

4. Trust me.

I can’t believe there are adults who even use this phrase and children are too intelligent to try.

5. What are your qualifications?

Among the most disingenuous queries as there is not interest in the qualifications or if you are qualified. This is a call to publish a resume which will ALWAYS exceed your previously stated experience. This is a Tar-baby which will devolve beyond name dropping and braggadocio to quantifications of discussions and meetings which produced nothing. This should be avoided at all costs but the desire to talk about one's penis is simply too great thus insuring continued practice.

6. I’ve been doing this for (??) number of years, that’s how I know.

Apparently they have not met their new masters in the form of the Google board of directors where several members actually entered their 30’s (age) this year. Longevity at failure is not a virtue.

7. They should know because they are local.

I don’t know where this beauty originated where a person living somewhere inherently knows more about technical or historical information on that city. I asked a guy from Detroit for a part number on a 1972 Caprice and all he did was stare just like that guy from Washington DC who didn’t know the ramifications of the Smoot-Hawley Act. Clearly both of them must have been imposters as all residents of those cities would have known those answers.

8. I’ll have to check with (person who is an utter unknown).

Another form of poorly played deflection where the information is held by one person who rarely is located to reinforce some statement that is in contradiction to traditional science or data.

9. I had it (the source) but agents from the government sabotaged my hard drive.

Yep, this one is still popular among the ‘I have AOL’ crowd that believes computers are magic. A dying breed that share a common DNA strand where any semi technical question is answered with ‘I have AOL’.

10. I don’t have time right now, do your own work.

They never do. Yet they ALWAYS have time to make a baseless response.

[AncestralManor 0]

Quote

I'll give my two cents on the money. One thing that I've always wondered about the money is the almost uniform degradation around the edges. I guess if the money was essentially muddied together in the middle, the edges would be the first to go, but it's always looked kind of strange to me. I've always thought the the damage along the sides looked more animal made rather than just from the elements (dirt, wind. water, sun). Kinda like what mice will do to a book.
I guess worms if the money was buried long enough?
Would water alone erode around the edges like that?

Holes look weird too -- bugs, worms, microscopic creatures? vs chemical burns?, vs shrapnel? vs mechanical damage from a dredge?

I know the money has been discussed at length on here, but what are your thoughts?

The condition of the money has been strangely picked up then shoots off into a fractured conjecture in outer space.

There are several types of symptoms to the naked eye that are worth noting.

Intact stacks with rubber band residue is supported with the pix and the original reportage.

The irregular but natural looking gradual deterioration on the edges of the stacks and individual bills does look like something eating away at the stacks.

Reminds me of fire damage on the edges of a stack of newspapers that never burned through cuz there wasn't enough heat/oxygen in the center.

Which reminds me that oxygen is needed for other deterioration processes besides fire.

But definitely not rolling down the river or magically holding the stacks together in any type of dredger.

Some bills are completely blackened and others are discolored in various degrees that might indicate how much seepage of a water-carried agent reached it.

Other bills have larger amounts of deterioration that fits the general symptom on the edges, but manages to reach larger proportions and more of the interior of the bill.

Then those pesky irregularly shaped and sized holes without tracks that indicate a boring pattern of either animal or chemical.

No telling what kind of sample Tom Kaye got from the FBI in 2008 to put under his high powered machine. Not sure whether Tom actually resolved that a silver residue was from FBI fingerprinting or if a surprising chemical compound was something else.

In 1980 Palmer reported on the sand and sediment layers - not the money condition. The money was found in the top layer of sand - which did have various waves (if not regular tides) of water exposure.

It is still Friday.

[smokin99 0]

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Would water alone erode around the edges like that?

I received a url from snowmman that shows what money looks like after water damage. Thought I'd share....
http://photos.signonsandiego.com/mutilated_money/86ca772127284aacb9cfb6b005576c67_1

The site doesn't say how long the money was submerged, however, Snowmman points out "this picture of water damaged currency shows how edge decomposition can be accelerated compared to the rest of the bill. And it makes sense to me that the effect would be uniform around the whole bill?" He also notes that we have no pics of the bills as found, and that the the Ingrams probably washed the bills off further debriding the edges.

More pics from the site:
http://photos.signonsandiego.com/mutilated_money/a0aea96ce5d54ab3a937644e341a41a8_1

I also found a pic that shows depression era money that had supposedly been buried and dug up. (The article is contradictory with the lead line so it's confusing as to whether it was actually buried or not - found in debris of shed that was torn down.)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361404,00.html


Towncraft #3 clip-on....$1.50
Airline ticket............$18.52
Money fragment.....$358.00
Hijacking a 727.........$200,000
Two mysteries in one.....Priceless

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

Here is another article about Columbia dredging:

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2010/10/oregon_washington_officials_pr.html

I know this is like plunging rusty nails, soaked in lemon juice and rolled in sand into your eyes, so you can simply pass over the comment and discount anything that could be heresy.

I’m always amazed at how little I know about so many things. This dredging operation kept 700,000 trucks off the highway and this project took 20 years to complete. Wow that’s a massive undertaking. The photo shows a ‘clamshell’ dredge in operation near Longview, WA (RM 64-70) which makes the Fazio river mile markers of 94 to 101.5 to be among the few immune to clamshell dredge equipment. Hmmmmmm.

[georger 197]

Intact stacks with rubber band residue is supported with the pix and the original reportage.
.

What does 'reportage' add to the debate?
Plummage?

What nexteth in the reportage?

Au jus con dindar? Maldum fornax sauce?

Quite obviously, the money was attacked by anti
matter and 13 types of silver.

Is there a psychiatrist in the house!?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Intact stacks with rubber band residue is supported with the pix and the original reportage.
.

Be thou that 'garbage', as it were?

What nexteth in the reportage?

Au jus con dinar?

Is there a psychiatrist in the house!?

[skyjack71 0]

1. Read back in the thread.

2. It’s somewhere around here, I can’t find it now.

3. This has already been talked about.

8. I’ll have to check with (person who is an utter unknown).

9. I had it (the source) but agents from the government sabotaged my hard drive.
Guilty - will blame on AOL or the internet...maybe it is just the operator (me). I type something and it goes POOF!. Probably me hitting the wrong key or loosing my connection.
Makes me so mad - have to blame someone!

I expect most here would have to answer at least 5 of these as Quilty.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Hmm... I thought I would also do a search for "Duane L Weber" and see what I came up with. What I came up with was something I did not expect... which appears to be Jo trying to get hold of Zona under false pretences:

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: geneaology
Date: 24 Aug 2005 00:43:44 -0600


This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.

Classification: Query

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ABg.2ACEB/342.581

Message Board Post:

I am looking for a Zona xxxx born in or about 1946 or there abouts. Her mothers name was Edna. The father may or may not have been listed at Duane L. Weber It is urgent I find Zona as there are heretidary health that she needs to know about.
This is all that I know except that they may have lived in CA, TX, Mx, or ILL

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GREER/2005-08/1124865824

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

2. It’s somewhere around here, I can’t find it now.
Guilty - my files are massive and it is hard to remember where I left my glasses or cane.

So was Geoff Gray lying when he said your files on Cooper were exceptionally well organised?

You have indeed on a number of occasions used the "I have the document here somewhere but can't find it now" in regards to backing up X, Y or Z claim ...and then we never hear of it again. (Perhaps it is in the "imminent revelations" folder?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

I expect most here would have to answer at least 5 of these as Quilty.

Great grandma plea: QUILTY. I love it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Here is some more dredging further up-river from Longview at a charming hamlet called St Helens, OR.

http://www.vustv.com/5PScQI2AwhyzA

The raw violence with which that material was handled gave me the vapors (whatever those are) and reach for an O2 mask so I could breath the air of the pure and righteous if only for a single moment. Boy I sure can see why skyjack71 said that all those listed dredges were too violent and how that education of staring at things on the riverbank is paying royalties now. I’m from the ‘University of Poke It With A Stick’ which explains a great deal of my Luddite behaviors.

I hate myself for even asking the question in the first place. I’ll keep researching this subject as an abject lesson to myself for shooting from the hip or using data without attribution as a deterrent to future behaviors.

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange One : Jo has used many tactic's to gain Info and fabricate Info. She is especialy good at acting and can cry or go into histerics on Q. Jerry

[Farflung 0]

Here’s a ‘case’ study from ‘Komatsu’ on dredging near ‘Caterpillar’ Island with equipment from ‘international’ factories which keep navigable waterways open while protecting wildlife we hold ‘dear’. There, I think that just about includes every heavy equipment maker except for New Holland in one sentence.

Anyway….. this vessel named the Megan Renee was operated from River Mile 1 to 103 thus making excavating dredges candidates for use along the entire waterway. Don’t let this slow or dampen the parsing, no this should fuel it even more. I’ve got enough info and it’s not what I was looking for at all.

It’s a story…. about a lovely lady…. who was dredging rivers that were full of stone.

Megan Renee had…. a single shovel…. and she was unbeknown.

Now you can read this and…. decide for yourself…. just how far that Megan had to go.

She went from the mighty city…. that’s named Portland…. and past the Fazio’s.

The DZ Bunch, The DZ Bunch, that’s the name of great info…. DZ Bunch.

http://www.komatsuamerica.com/060310-J-E-McAmis

Was it everything I hoped it would be (I still think drifting and natural transport are options)? Nope, I’ve learned a great deal about dredge operations and thread operations. I can safely say that during this brief journey I was stunned at how little I know about both and I’ll NEVER assume anything again. Which is funny because I don’t assume when it comes to aircraft and guns; in that Orville Wright can tell me a plane is ready to go and Samuel Colt can say it’s unloaded, yet I’ll check both for myself. Oh, and I don’t think Orville or Samuel were inveterate BS-ers.

If only people were just a cautious about firing off some ‘known facts’ which have been talked about for years and by very astute people who are smarter than everyone else and just add an image or URL or link to where they got their information. Unless they are actually trying to become part of the story then this is a mouse fart in the wind. Hmmmmm, I wonder what the ‘truth’ is.

OK, that was a lie; I know what the truth is I was just being a cheeky monkey.

[Mr.Green 0]

Could someone provide me with a link to sluggo's website?

[377 20]

We are all guessing about what made the holes in the Tena Bar money, but there has to be someone out there who is better qualified than we are. My guess is aquatic borers, but it's just a guess.

I don't think it's mold. I think its a bug or worm of some kind. It looks a lot like holes that worms make on wooden boat hull planks, My only experience is with salt water wood boring worms. I don't know if they have fresh water cousins.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Hmm... I thought I would also do a search for "Duane L Weber" and see what I came up with. What I came up with was something I did not expect... which appears to be Jo trying to get hold of Zona under false pretences:

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: geneaology
Date: 24 Aug 2005 00:43:44 -0600


This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.

Classification: Query

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ABg.2ACEB/342.581

Message Board Post:

I am looking for a Zona xxxx born in or about 1946 or there abouts. Her mothers name was Edna. The father may or may not have been listed at Duane L. Weber It is urgent I find Zona as there are hereditary health that she needs to know about.
This is all that I know except that they may have lived in CA, TX, Mx, or ILL

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GREER/2005-08/1124865824

I was trying to find Duane's daughter born sometime between 1943 and 1947 and her mother's name was Edna.

Duane died of polycystic renal failure as did his mother in 1958. This condition is usually hereditary...I have been trying to find her since Duane died.. I believe Duane L. Weber was listed as the birth parent. There was NO falsehood here. The last time Duane saw his daughter she was about 9 yrs old and she told him she never wanted to see him again.

I believed Zona to be in the AZ or TX area and included CA and Ill. Edna was named in a letter to Duane's mother in 1956 when his father died. Duane asked that Edna stand in for him. I do NOT know if this was done. In 1956 Duane was in prison.

It is pretty rotten of you and Jerry to make this into an issue.
It is true and I was NOT searching for her because of who her father was, but because of the disease and because I wanted to meet this daughter.

She would have very little memory of her father because Duane was incarcerated from 1950 to 1957.

Thank You for posting that here as it might help me to find out what happened to Zona and her mother Edna. Edna would be deceased and very probably so would Zona due to the herediatary disease.

377 and others know I asked for help on this issue in the thread or in another community I posted in. This is NO secret and NO deception.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

We are all guessing about what made the holes in the Tena Bar money, but there has to be someone out there who is better qualified than we are. My guess is aquatic borers, but it's just a guess.

I don't think it's mold. I think its a bug or worm of some kind. It looks a lot like holes that worms make on wooden boat hull planks, My only experience is with salt water wood boring worms. I don't know if they have fresh water cousins.

377

Maybe the holes were made before the Money was put on the river. Pehaps moths or ants or termites. If the money was hid in an old house or shed or buried beneath a house or shed in a bucket or wooden box - what would it's condition have been in 1979? Anyone dare to touch that one?

Think about it - some of the damage like the holes in the middle where probably done before the money was put on the river bank. Just a thought out of the BLUE! HAS anyone even thought about WHAT if the money was someplace besides the river until 1979? Palmer indicated the money had been in the water for less than a yr.

Why keep on trying to find a natural resource that puts the money on the beach? No one wants to believe that Cooper returned in 1979 - retrived the money then left a deposit on the river in 1979. I think he left more than ONE deposit. The others were just never found.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[wgk146 0]

I'm not a skydiver, just interested in DB Cooper.

Back in post 11460, it was noted that Sluggo's site had indicated that the FBI had dusted all the money with silver-nitrate to bring up fingerprints. Doesn't silver-nitrate eat paper?

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Blevins : Maybe you can make money off a book for charity But not one On Cooper Maybe You should have chosen another subject. Still I hope Bruce Smith does not follow your lead. At this point he is AHEAD OF YOU AS A WRITER. STILL HE HAS ONE PROBLEM. Using My name to prosper with out my permission is wrong. You however has never done that.I thank you for that. Bruice has stated that He is writing a book. He will go to any links to find the truth However some times he will take on the Blevins Trait and exagerate the truth If it will give him a edge on any story. This is common for People in you and Smith field.Jerry

Quote

So, Jerry, what have I exaggerated?

Further, when have I quoted you inappropriately or misused information that you have given me?

In general, the notion of permission is a bit of a tricky thing. When talking with a reporter, there is implied consent just by talking with me, especially for news-making strangers and public officials - everything is on the record.

To go off the record, one must declare that specifically.

Now, you and I have had numerous chats and the sharp journastic line has begun to blur - what is on the reocrd and what is just shooting the breeze? As I discussed with you in our last conversation, at this point I would clarify with you whatever comes up between us and seek your permission to publish. Typically, this means finding the correct phase or word that both of us are comfortable with before I go to work.

Now, in emails the issue is a bit sharper. When I ask you specific questions about the DB Cooper case, that is on the record. When I just ask, "So, what's new," that's off.

Copacetic?

Lastly, whenever you have issue with my professional conduct I would appreciate it if you speak with me before you blab it to the world on the Internet.

Deal?

• Quote

[monkycndo 0]

I've been away for a while, what have I missed?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[G_Jones 0]

Quote

I've been away for a while, what have I missed?

The identity of D.B. Cooper remains a mystery, and no new clues have turned up. Evidence is still vague and inconclusive. The FBI has turned up nothing new. The flight path is still in question. The only living witnesses have given no new information. Nobody knows how the money arrived at Tena Bar, or how long it may have been there.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

That was NO false pretense.
I was trying to find Duane's daughter born sometime between 1943 and 1947 and her mother's name was Edna.

Duane died of polycystic renal failure as did his mother in 1958. This condition is usually hereditary...I have been trying to find her since Duane died. I believe Duane L. Weber was listed as the birth parent. There was NO falsehood here. The last time Duane saw his daughter she was about 9 yrs old and she told him she never wanted to see him again.

I believed Zona to be in the AZ or TX area and included CA and Ill. Edna was named in a letter to Duane's mother in 1956 when his father died. Duane asked that Edna stand in for him. I do NOT know if this was done. In 1956 Duane was in prison.

It is pretty rotten of you and Jerry to make this into an issue.
It is true and I was NOT searching for her because of who her father was, but because of the disease and because I wanted to meet this daughter.

She would have very little memory of her father because Duane was incarcerated from 1950 to 1957.

Thank You for posting that here as it might help me to find out what happened to Zona and her mother Edna. Edna would be deceased and very probably so would Zona due to the herediatary disease.

377 and others know I asked for help on this issue in the thread or in another community I posted in. This is NO secret and NO deception.

I don't believe you for a second. Your entire life is consumed with trying to prove Duane was Cooper. As you tell it, Duane knew since before the hijacking occurred that he had kidney disease, not only when he died. Why not search for her to tell her this important news in the decades that Duane knew he was ill, or the very least in the years you spent with him? It seems very fishy that decades later this suddenly becomes enough of an issue to search for her, at a time that just happens to intensify with your Cooper search. All this of course on the rather daft assumption that if Zona fell ill, the doctors would have no clue what the trouble was until white knight Jo came riding in? How many times do I have to tell you: we are not as dumb as you think we are.

The only thing rotten is you trying to scare someone into contacting you for your own reasons.

btw Occam would say the little girl in the photo is Zona, not Tina, surely?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I've been away for a while, what have I missed?

Let's see... lots of fighting, particularly between Jo and Blevins, more conspiracy theories, and a good number of seriously funny Farflung posts. Possibly one or two posts that actually have something to do with the DB Cooper case.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Guru312 0]

Quote

Quote

I've been away for a while, what have I missed?

Possibly one or two posts that actually have something to do with the DB Cooper case.

Them whuffos be a-fightin' over rubber bands, piles of sand and pressure bumps. They been leavin' and comin' back and leavin' and comin' back. Kinda funny, readin' stuff writ by people what know nothin' about our sport.

Oh! ...and I still ain't DB Cooper.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper