AncestralManor

Back in January of 2010, we had a detailed discussion about the money. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3782527 Brian Ingram auctioned off many of the largest bills in 2008. The process for preparing the bills uncovered 35 more serial numbers than were previously recorded (because the fragments were stuck together) plus smaller pieces were put together to reconstruct a larger portion of a bill. http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ http://www.coinnews.net/2008/03/31/heritage-offers-db-cooper-skyjacking-notes-4019/ http://www.coinnews.net/2008/06/13/db-cooper-notes-make-37k-at-heritages-americana-memorabilia-auction/ Then smaller pieces in 2009. It looks like the 2009 auction link still shows some fragments up for bid. http://www.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=0+790+231&Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&Ntt=%22d+b+cooper%22

Circumstantial speculation aside, interesting stories do not a case make. Where is the hard evidence? A placard and some of the money. Soft evidence - a tie and clip, missing Raleigh cigs, unknown partial fingerprints, unknown partial DNA, conflicting flight path analysis, conflicting parachute sources, conflicting contemporaneous reports ... fraught with many layers of contamination issues. Dissecting Marla's story and those of others is an exercise in outer space that continues to ignore the only hard evidence that exists - and validates the idea that there is any worthwhile discussion of a "story."

YES!!!...but I think you may be thinking of Bertha, the mammary jogger? She's about 5 foot tall but she cant see where she's walking except but about 5 feet in front of where she is. After that, its all academic. Thats why Bob Seger wrote that song. What a problem that would be, except that she really didnt need to see anyway! What a model for us she really was! And what a great song! Nah, it looks like you were prodding folks into thinking about what can be seen above the cloud covers and triangulated -as has been done for centuries.

Sohcahtoa is a Trig memory jogger.

U.S., Department of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File, 1850-2010 Name: Lynn Doyle Cooper Gender: Male Birth Date: 17 Sep 1931 Death Date: 30 Apr 1999 Cause of Death: Natural SSN: 540365007 Branch 1: NAVY Enlistment Date 1: 29 Dec 1951 Release Date 1: 22 Apr 1955 Oregon, Death Index, 1898-2008 Name: Lynn Doyle Cooper Age: 68 Birth Date: 1931 Death Date: 30 Apr 1999 Death Place: Lane Spouse: Marcia Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005 Name: Lynn Doyle Cooper Gender: Male Residence state: Oklahoma Spouse: Marcia K Focsko Spouse residence state: Nebraska Marriage Date: 11 Oct 1973 Marriage City: Virginia City Officiant type: Civil celebrant Recorded date: 17 Oct 1973 Recorded county: Storey Public Records Index - Name: Lynn Doyle Cooper Address: PO Box 10580, Reno, NV, 89510-0580 (1995) [3184 Clan Alpine Dr, Sparks, NV, 89434-1710] [1467 Shady Oak Dr, Sparks, NV, 89434-2636 (1993)] Name: Marcia K Cooper Birth Date: 23 Mar 1954 Address: 3184 Clan Alpine Dr, Sparks, NV, 89434-1710 (1979) [1467 Shady Oak Dr # 47, Sparks, NV, 89434-2636 (1981)]

Original sources: Scott, Rataczak, Mucklow Primary information: Scott - No predetermined spot Mucklow - Never cruel or nasty Rataczak - We were in control, no attempt to impede his mission Evidence conflicts? Later reports and speculations? - often into outer space :) Begin at the contemporaneous reports from original sources. http://www.nbcuniversalarchives.com/nbcuni/clip/5112499111_s05.do

And what precisely do you want the money to show? What should it show? What would be nice to have it show? Compared with the placard... The money is what it is = Cooper money for sure, but the controversy of where it spent the 1971-80 years is still up for grabs. Did Kaye do credible tests on the spectro scale? I don't know. Did Kaye have a large enough sample or was he able to compare the small number of FBI bills with the much larger distribution of the rest of the bills to isolate contamination issues at that point? I don't know. I looked at high resolution images of the money Brian Ingram was auctioning off. I am a WHUFFO but I see oxidation, bug and/or bacteria damage. I'd really like to know what Tom Kaye saw in the spectro analysis. I do not know what the placard can tell us.

Yes, I have considered that possibility. I think it was even an FBI statement in the early years (if the journalist got it right) that said they were withholding information like the color of the parachute. Never mind 377's claim that the packer alternately gave the NB6 vs NB8 designation for what Cooper was delivered, etc., etc. It does not warm the cockles of my soul that in each changing of the guard at the FBI that the procedure does not appear to be to go back to the beginning and evaluate the spin versus the evidence - and at least build a base for the convergence at that point. A salesman may admonish a technician to not confuse selling with installing - but the bottom line is that if you are trying to sell a story (true or not) you will have to pay the piper on the practical aspects. True for building something as well as reverse engineering. Reverse engineering is what we are trying to do with Cooper.

At least 4 former FBI agents have written books on the Cooper case including Himmelsbach - all with different theories. The FBI official statements have shifted over the years. Anyone have any explanations for the few I mention below (in addition to the flight path and the aft stairs)? For the first few years after the hijacking, Julius Mattson was the FBI spokesman in AP reports. Mattson is repeatedly quoted to say that they did not have anything to go on - that they knew no more than they did at 11pm November 24, 1971. I do not find Himmelsbach as a quoted FBI contact until 1975 when he is said to have worked on the case - off and on. Himmelsbach described a Cooper MO and behavior quite different from Tina Mucklow's early newspaper reports of Cooper as a polite if sometimes impatient hijacker. I have to wonder why Mattson's early reports of NO FINGERPRINTS flies in the face of current reports of partials to rule out folks. We have more technology for fingerprints and DNA - but that doesn't preclude contamination issues in uncontrolled environments over several decades. There might be as many as 60 unidentified prints in the Cooper case? Sure sounds like contamination if the passengers and crew do not match. Which by the way is a highly charged issue amongst scientists in a dinosaur DNA case that Tom Kaye has investigated. I am hoping that Tom Kaye actually does have something significant to report on the 1979 money find controversy - and that it will become public soon. The money is the only shred of hard evidence - anomaly and pun intended :)

My favorite physicist is Richard Feynman. Hominid's explained motivation made me think you are interested perhaps in finding an "O Ring" clue (ala the cause of Challenger disaster) that may have been missed. Wikipedia has a page for Feynman but does not describe Feynman as a banjo playing, safe cracking, incurable romantic. His autobiographical books do :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman Feynman did love women,wine and song - not just math and physics. Sure to get an attaboy from many in this forum. However, I do have a problem with so many calculations using imprecise information, particularly since much of the original source, contemporaneous info is NOT available - to at least bracket if not resolve the inconsistencies. Blevins repost of some of Farflung's calculations for the flight path and these recent discussions about the aft stairs don't seem to converge on anything that resembles an epiphany to me. Am I missing something? How would I factor in the report that the co-pilot told Ralph at his 1980 retirement that the FBI flight path was not correct - then only 9 years out? I am a head scratching WHUFFO.

The condition of the money has been strangely picked up then shoots off into a fractured conjecture in outer space. There are several types of symptoms to the naked eye that are worth noting. Intact stacks with rubber band residue is supported with the pix and the original reportage. The irregular but natural looking gradual deterioration on the edges of the stacks and individual bills does look like something eating away at the stacks. Reminds me of fire damage on the edges of a stack of newspapers that never burned through cuz there wasn't enough heat/oxygen in the center. Which reminds me that oxygen is needed for other deterioration processes besides fire. But definitely not rolling down the river or magically holding the stacks together in any type of dredger. Some bills are completely blackened and others are discolored in various degrees that might indicate how much seepage of a water-carried agent reached it. Other bills have larger amounts of deterioration that fits the general symptom on the edges, but manages to reach larger proportions and more of the interior of the bill. Then those pesky irregularly shaped and sized holes without tracks that indicate a boring pattern of either animal or chemical. No telling what kind of sample Tom Kaye got from the FBI in 2008 to put under his high powered machine. Not sure whether Tom actually resolved that a silver residue was from FBI fingerprinting or if a surprising chemical compound was something else. In 1980 Palmer reported on the sand and sediment layers - not the money condition. The money was found in the top layer of sand - which did have various waves (if not regular tides) of water exposure. It is still Friday.

The only documentation of anyone making money is Brian Ingram who found the money at age eight in 1980 then won the rights to a portion of the 1980 find as a teenager. In recent years he auctioned off a chunk of his allocated portion and provides us with a extension of the visual timeline. http://historical.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&N=49+790+231&Ntt=%22d.%20b.%20cooper%22 Original film footage from the 1980 dig can be found in this video starting at about 4:30 though film from the money find is at the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjDx9xwjA90&NR=1 Pretend you do not have a dog in this fight and you are just looking at the pdf link below following the timeline of the money from 1980 until 2009. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0Bz9VTn216kz-NGNiM2UxMTQtNGU5ZC00ZDM0LThkZTItODE4YWJmYzViZmVj&hl=en_US What might you notice about the money - without regard to how those observations might fit into ANY Cooper story? "Just the facts." - Sergeant Friday

Hello, Thanks for asking questions that go back to basics. There are a number of good stories that connect factual dots with theory dots. The original Kenny Christensen article written by Gray was plausible. Blevins attempt to dig deeper is honorable. Gray's current work provides insight into other suspects and complications that get in the way of a resolution. The nature of Marla, Vicki and Jo's directly personal connection to their own suspects is understandable and their inquiries credible. Others have made their own investments in the forum and/or the actual investigation. I have some experience with other watching crowd sourcing "food fights" yet I do wonder what is a good way to keep the discussion on track. Perhaps too boring? Farflung's tangents into driving and parking where the yellow boots in Amsterdam cost you a small fortune tempt me to talk about my experience, but then I might be tempted to relate other stories of the ridiculous and sublime. Now, there's a reminder of Snow's shenanigans. Mr. Green goes against many tides with a stance of authority and reason. I have no clue where he gets such an authoritative position, but I do remember that Larry Carr was assertive - and yet got a few details mixed up :) The placard and 1980 money finds are two anchored moorings of puzzle pieces. There appear to have been missteps in the heat of the moment as to what the actual plane location was via the pilots perspective versus the FBI's original locus of search - and institutionalized into the evidence evaluation. The sketches and physical description issues are subject to all the hazards that have been discussed. The fingerprint and DNA samples appear to be precarious also. Yet at the heart of the current revelations is Tina Mucklow. Did those Sky Chef matches come from Tina or Cooper or somewhere else? Is Tina's brother-in-law really a retired FBI agent? If so, what influence would that have on the books previously written by other FBI agents with very different accounts? Was Tina so traumatized by this event that her life has been impaired? I can see there is more to come in this story.

CAVA, CAVA! Ignore even the FBI interpretations. Get back to basics with original sources. Published reports by FBI folks like Himmelsbach, Tosaw, Ckret (Larry Carr) etc differ widely. Captain Scott is reported long ago to have said that the FBI flight path was wrong. Is there any source that documents any radar tracking of the flight? Whether you are looking at the maps templates for 1954, 1971 or later - those maps were developed independent of the Cooper case. They are original sources with primary information. What are other original sources of primary information that independently converge on any theory? What can we analyze by source quality on a scale of KNOWN LIKELY POSSIBLE UNLIKELY IMPOSSIBLE UNKNOWN ? Limiting the problem by finding a focus means that it is much more solvable. Creating a time line with discrete components for each part of the analysis helps maintain the focus. WHO WHAT WHEN WHERE HOW WHY ? Exactly where were the placard and money found? Is there anything else that pins the flight path to map analysis? Anything in the publicly available flight communications transcript? Joe Friday wants just the facts for now.

Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Are you 007? Okay dude! Who the hell are you really, and how/why are you reading my mail?