377 20
Recommended Posts
smokin99 0
Not arguing with you Blevins. I'm not a scientist either, but prior to Georger's post, Orange1 posted this....
QuoteMore to the point about titanium sponge though: it appears that this emerges during the manufacturing process, between purification and alloy creation...http://www.answers.com/topic/titanium
This is much like what I found when I looked it up. The way i read it is sponge in an intermediary process between raw material and alloy creation that allows for the fabricated metal used in Aerospace (read Boeing) industry.
My point is bringing it up is the first place was that Gray wrote that the tie which may or may not have been Cooper's contained titanium sponge, according to Tom kaye. Then there is further speculation in the book as to potential sources of titanium sponge. Aerospace (read Boeing) industry was mentioned as well as a paint chip.
My thought was: being it was sponge, could it have come from the flare/dynamite/red stick that comprised the "bomb". As opposed to the aerospace (read Boeing) industry. Or Sherwin Williams, or a titanium plant in Albany, Oregon.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
Orange1 0
Um...Georger said sponge in raw form may be used in flares or cheap dynamite. Was this the case in the 1970s too?
If so it may just reflect the fact that Cooper had flares or cheap dynamite in his briefcase, and gives us no clues about anything else...
Edit: posted before I saw smokin99 had come to same conclusion!!
If so it may just reflect the fact that Cooper had flares or cheap dynamite in his briefcase, and gives us no clues about anything else...
Edit: posted before I saw smokin99 had come to same conclusion!!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Farflung 0
Something tells me a theory has already been dovetailed into the metal sponge data point with a shocking absence of proof but with a surplus of secret meetings, lost documents and death threats.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,857343,00.html
Pretty smart guys way back in ’52 (1,400 tons a year) had already identified the crucial gaps that the stuff would fill in aviation. Not quite a common as door hardware yet but if you have a bicycle.
http://www.whiteind.com/bottombrackets.html
Near as I can tell the only difference between the stainless axle and the titanium is a weight delta of 64 grams. Crap here’s the metric system soiling my brain again. So 64 grams is 2.25 ounces with prices of $90 for the stainless and $135 for the titanium (universalcycles.com). An exotic metal but not so much that the average person could not own some now. The corrosion resistance is no better than stainless and the heat conducting properties would be irrelevant on a bicycle or even a computer. But people get stupid excited about a product they think is rare or exotic, like Corinthian leather or Cornish game hens.
Apple computer made a big stink out of a laptop that had a titanium frame and how it was made out of spy plane stuff. The junk that people will fall for then deny. Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G4
Kinda pointless to make a laptop with lithium batteries and titanium just to have the plastic hinges break. I think the design team used the exotic metals for the wrong things. Nothing better than having a computer geek explain this in pee your pants, excite-o-rama (1:36 to forever it seems).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHkrnU77m0
I began to tingle (1:53 – 2:10) at the new knowledge I gained by believing that a CEO of a company is the sole holder of all knowledge. Yes, titanium is lighter than aluminum (?)….. using what basis? Density or final product? Right, no one cares because it is the president of Apple so the end.
I started to cry (2:44 -2:46) when I realized the customer base needed to be told what a finger was. By the time the audience was whipped into a light froth (5:13- 5:20) with logo orientation I was starting to feel a little funny in my loins too. Such an excellent value (6:25). The word unbelievable was harmed during the making of this video. I think the titanium fetish is over for Apple now.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,857343,00.html
Pretty smart guys way back in ’52 (1,400 tons a year) had already identified the crucial gaps that the stuff would fill in aviation. Not quite a common as door hardware yet but if you have a bicycle.
http://www.whiteind.com/bottombrackets.html
Near as I can tell the only difference between the stainless axle and the titanium is a weight delta of 64 grams. Crap here’s the metric system soiling my brain again. So 64 grams is 2.25 ounces with prices of $90 for the stainless and $135 for the titanium (universalcycles.com). An exotic metal but not so much that the average person could not own some now. The corrosion resistance is no better than stainless and the heat conducting properties would be irrelevant on a bicycle or even a computer. But people get stupid excited about a product they think is rare or exotic, like Corinthian leather or Cornish game hens.
Apple computer made a big stink out of a laptop that had a titanium frame and how it was made out of spy plane stuff. The junk that people will fall for then deny. Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G4
Kinda pointless to make a laptop with lithium batteries and titanium just to have the plastic hinges break. I think the design team used the exotic metals for the wrong things. Nothing better than having a computer geek explain this in pee your pants, excite-o-rama (1:36 to forever it seems).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHkrnU77m0
I began to tingle (1:53 – 2:10) at the new knowledge I gained by believing that a CEO of a company is the sole holder of all knowledge. Yes, titanium is lighter than aluminum (?)….. using what basis? Density or final product? Right, no one cares because it is the president of Apple so the end.
I started to cry (2:44 -2:46) when I realized the customer base needed to be told what a finger was. By the time the audience was whipped into a light froth (5:13- 5:20) with logo orientation I was starting to feel a little funny in my loins too. Such an excellent value (6:25). The word unbelievable was harmed during the making of this video. I think the titanium fetish is over for Apple now.
smokin99 0
That was funny.
He had me at power + sex. Lost me at one inch thick. Got me again at airplane ready so I don't knock over my drink. Hey, I'm just so wanta want one. Until he lost me again at $2599 and $3499.
He had me at power + sex. Lost me at one inch thick. Got me again at airplane ready so I don't knock over my drink. Hey, I'm just so wanta want one. Until he lost me again at $2599 and $3499.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
smokin99 0
QuotePoint of Order: Himmelsbach has said several times that he is sure Cooper did NOT have dynamite. He says the sticks were red, and real dynamite is the color of a manila envelope.
hmmmmmm. Well first, we both mentioned flares, but aside from that....
So obviously there has never been any dynamite made with red wrappers?? I have no idea, but that just sounds so absolute. How would he know that I wonder?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
georger 194
QuoteQuotePoint of Order: Himmelsbach has said several times that he is sure Cooper did NOT have dynamite. He says the sticks were red, and real dynamite is the color of a manila envelope.
hmmmmmm. Well first, we both mentioned flares, but aside from that....
So obviously there has never been any dynamite made with red wrappers?? I have no idea, but that just sounds so absolute. How would he know that I wonder?
Go on Google Images and see how many red
dynamite images you find. Note the makers.
georger 194
You mean aircraft makers smelted-QuoteWho continues to toil for the benefit of the group, even when permabanned by Q? Snowmman of course.
Come on Quade. Life without parole for rudeness is just too extreme. Let Snowmman back and see how it goes. He adds a lot of value which, IMO, offsets the negatives by a huge margin
Snowmman writes:QuoteI read that some amount of titanium sponge was used in 727 airframe (flanges? don't know where) and more so in
engines.
In fact here's an exact number:
The Boeing 727 (1963) had 290kg of titanium
source: page 357 of this book (interesting that kitchen and toilet flooring is mentioned, at least nowadays?
ftp://95.31.6.178/Libraries/lib.mexmat.ru/Lib/200910/Polmear_I.J.,_Light_Alloys%5Bc%
5D_From_Traditional_Alloys_to_Nanocrystals_(2006)_(4th_ed.)(en).pdf
"Titanium alloys were first used mainly as sheet for engine nacelles, exhaust shrouds, and fire walls where
heating was significant. Now they are used many other purposes including thin
straps wrapped around aluminium alloy fuselages to prevent the propagation
of possible fatigue cracks, hydraulic tubing, kitchen and toilet flooring where
high corrosion resistance is required, and particularly for forgings made
mainly from the - alloy Ti–6Al–4V. These forgings are used for critical
components such as engine mountings, flap and slat tracks in wings and
undercarriage components."
It was used in the 727 elevator, for example. source
http://ae-www.technion.ac.il/admin/serve.php?id=14542
JOURNAL OF AIRCRAFT
Vol. 41, No. 5, September–October 2004
History of Flight Vehicle Structures 1903–1990
D. Paul∗ and D. Pratt†
U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory, Wright–Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio 45433-7542
377
forged their own metals too?
georger 194
QuoteQuoteQuoteRobert says:
See attached picture. I don't just make this stuff up, you know.
Yeah, it says "END-USE" statistics. How does that contradict what Georger said?
Does anyone know WHAT form of Titanium sponge was actually found on the tie? I don't. I only said how the material was generally used, which is mostly by the aerospace industry, although it has many other uses as well. That's all. I'm not a scientist, folks, or a metallurgist either.
You just dont git it!
Ti sponge IS THE FORM!
georger 194
I only researched how Titanium sponge was generally used. I don't just make this stuff up, you know.
wHO WROTE THE REPORT?
US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY.
end use it says.
they are talking about ore.
the us GEOLOGICAL survey does not keep stats
on finished metal useage? Why would they?
Any more than they keep stats on carp or light
bulbs? For that you go to US Fisheries or NTST or
some such thing ...
metric tons of sponge metal CONTENT, it says.
Keyword CONTENT -
they are talking about end use of - - - ORE ---
Keep in mind Tom Kaye works with archaeology-
geology. I think he is speaking geologically,
using a geological term, which has chemical
meaning. That is my guess. He bothered to state
the "form" the Ti is in as he found it. That's my
guess.
Here is what it looks like: its a very light spongy
material you can sqeeze almost like heat expanded
spongy mica you find in potting soils (vermiculite).
And placed in a firework or flare it burns very hot
and bright - like magnesium but with a higher
ignition temp.
Its not the kind of thing an ordinary person would
run into every day, to say the least, so there must
be some very specific source.
georger 194
QuoteQuotePoint of Order: Himmelsbach has said several times that he is sure Cooper did NOT have dynamite. He says the sticks were red, and real dynamite is the color of a manila envelope.
hmmmmmm. Well first, we both mentioned flares, but aside from that....
So obviously there has never been any dynamite made with red wrappers?? I have no idea, but that just sounds so absolute. How would he know that I wonder?
Keep in mind TM said the same red as her uniform -
we spent weeks on that! Like this flare -
Farflung 0
RobertMBlevins researches dynamite with:
“Himmelsbach has said several times that he is sure Cooper did NOT have dynamite. He says the sticks were red, and real dynamite is the color of a manila envelope.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcVe2k4GpKg&feature=related
The source image is a stock shot from 123RF.com and in all probability not even a photo of real explosives. Thus rendering the example moot and was selected out of a field of more than a dozen examples of red explosives. Are genuine examples this difficult to obtain?
Are genuine answers this cheap?
“Himmelsbach has said several times that he is sure Cooper did NOT have dynamite. He says the sticks were red, and real dynamite is the color of a manila envelope.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcVe2k4GpKg&feature=related
The source image is a stock shot from 123RF.com and in all probability not even a photo of real explosives. Thus rendering the example moot and was selected out of a field of more than a dozen examples of red explosives. Are genuine examples this difficult to obtain?
Are genuine answers this cheap?
smokin99 0
QuoteQuoteQuote***Point of Order: Himmelsbach has said several times that he is sure Cooper did NOT have dynamite. He says the sticks were red, and real dynamite is the color of a manila envelope.
hmmmmmm. Well first, we both mentioned flares, but aside from that....
So obviously there has never been any dynamite made with red wrappers?? I have no idea, but that just sounds so absolute. How would he know that I wonder?
Keep in mind TM said the same red as her uniform -
we spent weeks on that! Like this flare -
Yeah I know, weeks, but humor me for a minute
So the pictures I attached to my post above, particularly the one labeled "dynamite" that depicts sticks of dynamite on the cover of a book of the same name is probably not real dynamite? I'm attaching it again.
I'm not being facetious. I really want to know how the FBI can be so absolute about this issue. Was there a standard or law that had to be followed that said no red dynamite in 1971? Or is it like other things in this case...assumptions made that somehow turn into facts?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
Farflung 0
smokin99,
Here’s a place that makes inert dynamite (something else to nightmare about) for use in training situations (even has government approval). There appears to be a rainbow of colors associated with dynamite and the standard Hollywood or Roadrunner cartoon red is in the minority but appears to exist in inert format today.
http://www.inertproducts.com/inert_dynamite
If it was my bacon being shown a cluster of red sticks and wires I would get all butch manly man, look Cooper straight in the Ray Bans and say, “Yes sir, what may I do for you?” But don’t think I wouldn’t be cross about this and let my frustration manifest in rage unleashed upon a parking lot attendant, waitress, cashier, hotel maid or someone equally deserving (code for lower economic status).
Here’s a place that makes inert dynamite (something else to nightmare about) for use in training situations (even has government approval). There appears to be a rainbow of colors associated with dynamite and the standard Hollywood or Roadrunner cartoon red is in the minority but appears to exist in inert format today.
http://www.inertproducts.com/inert_dynamite
If it was my bacon being shown a cluster of red sticks and wires I would get all butch manly man, look Cooper straight in the Ray Bans and say, “Yes sir, what may I do for you?” But don’t think I wouldn’t be cross about this and let my frustration manifest in rage unleashed upon a parking lot attendant, waitress, cashier, hotel maid or someone equally deserving (code for lower economic status).
smokin99 0
Quotesmokin99,
Here’s a place that makes inert dynamite (something else to nightmare about) for use in training situations (even has government approval). There appears to be a rainbow of colors associated with dynamite and the standard Hollywood or Roadrunner cartoon red is in the minority but appears to exist in inert format today.
http://www.inertproducts.com/inert_dynamite
If it was my bacon being shown a cluster of red sticks and wires I would get all butch manly man, look Cooper straight in the Ray Bans and say, “Yes sir, what may I do for you?” But don’t think I wouldn’t be cross about this and let my frustration manifest in rage unleashed upon a parking lot attendant, waitress, cashier, hotel maid or someone equally deserving (code for lower economic status).
Yeah, I saw that. The one that was particularly interesting to me was the Red Cross inert dynamite. Edited to say - can't really tell if it's red or not. Apparently that brand was popular in agricultural settings. There's even a handbook for farmers. "How to use Red Cross dynamite" put out by Dupont, in the early 1900s. http://www.scribd.com/doc/33290335/How-to-use-red-cross-dynamite-Du-Pont-farmer-s-handbook-USA-1912 It was just taking forever to download so I didn't see a pic of the real thing.
I guess it's a moot point anyway since whatever it was seemed to have worked like a charm for what it was intended to do, huh?
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
QuoteHey Jo,
I have an idea for a new quest for you to engage.
Would you be willing to consider the possibility that Duane lied to you? That he is not Dan Cooper, but simply one of the 922 guys who have confessed to the skyjacking?
If you would like to discuss why Duane would do that, I'd listen.
I would very much like to learn about the Cooper Vortex phenomenon and understand the how's and why's of so many people wanting to be a part of this grand drama.
No Vortex phenomenon - and I am NOT one of those wanting to be part of a grand drama. Surprise surprise and the mouse is laughing with Cherry Cheese Pie all over his face.
You Will Never Know If You Don't Know Now! Duane was Dan Cooper.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 194
Yeah, I saw that. The one that was particularly interesting to me was the Red Cross inert dynamite. Edited to say - can't really tell if it's red or not. Apparently that brand was popular in agricultural settings. There's even a handbook for farmers. "How to use Red Cross dynamite" put out by Dupont, in the early 1900s. http://www.scribd.com/doc/33290335/How-to-use-red-cross-dynamite-Du-Pont-farmer-s-handbook-USA-1912 It was just taking forever to download so I didn't see a pic of the real thing.
I guess it's a moot point anyway since whatever it was seemed to have worked like a charm for what it was intended to do, huh?
I guess it's a moot point anyway since whatever it was seemed to have worked like a charm for what it was intended to do, huh?
attachment - color would probably depend on where
he got whatever it was, dynamite vs flares. Flares
are generally red or red-orange.
Tina was not asked: do the sticks have a cap at
one end? Do the sticks look like paper or are they
solid tubes? Do the ends look like folded paper or
are the ends a solid tube? Did you see a hard thing
that looks like a button in the ends of any of the
sticks? etc etc ...
it
Come on Quade. Life without parole for rudeness is just too extreme. Let Snowmman back and see how it goes. He adds a lot of value which, IMO, offsets the negatives by a huge margin
Snowmman writes:
377
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites