Robert99 37 #62976 January 5 4 hours ago, FLYJACK said: I asked many times for you to show me your data and you never do... I have the data... I am asking for you to show me your data.. because it doesn't say what you think it does. The wind was shifting and the balloon data does not say what you claim. There are balloon measurement and forecasts... A balloon is sent up 2x per day and can drift hundreds of miles and even land within a few hours.. That balloon could have been hundreds of miles away from Cooper's jump location when he jumped... A forecast isn't necessarily accurate. The data I just posted is measurements at the airport, Weather Underground is the same. On ground winds, you are correct ground isn't elevation. However, in the balloon data for the two locations the measurement for ground direction was very close to direction at elevation. The difference was speed increased at elevation.. So, we can use ground wind as a proxy for direction at elevation. It wasn't always exact but very close. So, show me your data and prove me wrong.. My point is that the wind was shifting back and forth between SSE and SSW throughout the day in the area,, and there is no actual data for Cooper's jump location and time.. In other words, the wind direction Cooper encountered when he jumped could have been anywhere between SSE snd SSW... You are claiming a level of precision that does not exist. The weather underground data looks the same but in a different format.. https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/KPDX/date/1971-11-24 Measured ground wind Portland at 7PM SE.. at 10PM SSW... FlyJack, the data I refer to is already online here, as you presumably know, and most of it has been here for about the last 15 years. On the balloon data, just exactly how far from its launch site do you think it was when it reached 10,000 feet? And exactly where do you get the idea that the wind at 10,000 feet was from the S or SE? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62977 January 6 2 hours ago, Robert99 said: FlyJack, the data I refer to is already online here, as you presumably know, and most of it has been here for about the last 15 years. On the balloon data, just exactly how far from its launch site do you think it was when it reached 10,000 feet? And exactly where do you get the idea that the wind at 10,000 feet was from the S or SE? I am not going to play this stupid game,, I have the data... You know that. You need to show me proof of what you claim.. no more of your nonsense. The reason you won't show it is because it doesn't indicate what you claim.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CooperNWO305 146 #62978 January 6 On 1/1/2024 at 7:14 PM, CooperNWO305 said: Nicky. Can I assume you acknowledge that you got this one wrong? Did you confirm a connection to Michigan for Valeria? What about Thanksgiving 1971, was she there? It’s only 52 years ago, so should not be hard for someone to remember it in detail. I guess there won’t be an answer from Nicky because he realizes he’s wrong. Valeria Ostrowski is listed as being born in Michigan. This puts her as a good candidate for the entry in Gunther’s book. I was expecting Nicky to have a rebuttal from his source, but I’ve been told he was blocked. It’s still very convenient that there are no pics of Smith in 1971. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #62979 January 6 18 hours ago, FLYJACK said: I am not going to play this stupid game,, I have the data... You know that. You need to show me proof of what you claim.. no more of your nonsense. The reason you won't show it is because it doesn't indicate what you claim.. FlyJack, you say that you have the data I am talking about. So just exactly what do you disagree with in that data? Again, that data DOES NOT support your claims. You need to get the FAA publications I have been telling you about for years and read them so you have at least some idea of what is going on here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62980 January 6 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Robert99 said: FlyJack, you say that you have the data I am talking about. So just exactly what do you disagree with in that data? Again, that data DOES NOT support your claims. You need to get the FAA publications I have been telling you about for years and read them so you have at least some idea of what is going on here. Give up.. You need to post the source, the location, the time/date, the wind direction and speed at elevation that you claim.. You have never done that because it doesn't exist, the data is not as precise as you claim.. even Tom said that the wind was more Southerly than thought... the FBI later revised its info to say it was more Southerly.. The wind was shifting between about SSE and SSW even in the balloon data... but there is no actual data for the area and time that Cooper jumped.. You are making claims with a precision that is not expressed in the data... Edited January 6 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Broughton 53 #62981 January 7 8 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said: I guess there won’t be an answer from Nicky because he realizes he’s wrong. Valeria Ostrowski is listed as being born in Michigan. This puts her as a good candidate for the entry in Gunther’s book. I was expecting Nicky to have a rebuttal from his source, but I’ve been told he was blocked. It’s still very convenient that there are no pics of Smith in 1971. She was born in Poland and it’s irrelevant… If WJS was cooper he would of died upon landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CooperNWO305 146 #62982 January 7 13 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said: She was born in Poland and it’s irrelevant… If WJS was cooper he would of died upon landing. The census records say differently, so even if she was born in Poland, someone thought she was born in Michigan. As for the liver deformity and its impact. Are you a doctor now? She was 6 in 1971. She remembers this? None of this was in his records. He would not have qualified for Naval aviation with this and would have had many situations in life that would have resulted in being jostled around. He worked on the railroad, he smoked, he drank. So maybe he got sick years later. Maybe he had a death wish in 1971. Use your brain. How many people die a year from parachute accidents involving this liver issue? Not skydivers, but actual hard landings in military chutes? You’re just not a logical or critical thinker. You should focus on your personality rather than blindly regurgitating second hand information. You’re hearing what you want to hear, and frankly you are inciting your source. Your other cronies are hearing what they want to hear too. You’re severely biased as are your counterparts. Say what you want to say, but your theories carry no weight. Did he not have the brains to carry this out? Did he not have the courage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 28 #62984 January 8 -Coopers Height- Over next 2 weeks I invite anyone who would like to contribute to help compile an exhaustive reference list on all official records and verifiable statements concerning height. Over the next 2 weeks, I'll not respond to debate, conjecture, theory - what have you. The recorded facts of the case are what I will specifically collect and respond to and hopefully in the end we'll all have one concise reference list. I'll follow up late this evening with the first ref list and look to update it roughly every 3-4 days or sooner if necessary. If this proves to be a productive exercise possibly we could organize ourselves to together attack other areas of the case in this manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #62985 January 8 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Cola said: -Coopers Height- Over next 2 weeks I invite anyone who would like to contribute to help compile an exhaustive reference list on all official records and verifiable statements concerning height. Over the next 2 weeks, I'll not respond to debate, conjecture, theory - what have you. The recorded facts of the case are what I will specifically collect and respond to and hopefully in the end we'll all have one concise reference list. I'll follow up late this evening with the first ref list and look to update it roughly every 3-4 days or sooner if necessary. If this proves to be a productive exercise possibly we could organize ourselves to together attack other areas of the case in this manner. It doesn't take that long to be exhaustive. Pretty sure I can do this off the top of my head because there are so few. I don't know of any other descriptions from anyone else regarding his height. Gregory - 5'9 Mitchell - 5'9 to 5'10 Labissoniere - 5'10 Spreckel - 5'10 Lysne - 5'10 Tina - 5'10 - 6' in her first interview, 6' in her second interview Flo - 6'0 in her interview, 6'1 in her cockpit notes Alice - 6'1 Williams 6'1+ Edited January 8 by olemisscub 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62986 January 8 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Cola said: -Coopers Height- Over next 2 weeks I invite anyone who would like to contribute to help compile an exhaustive reference list on all official records and verifiable statements concerning height. Over the next 2 weeks, I'll not respond to debate, conjecture, theory - what have you. The recorded facts of the case are what I will specifically collect and respond to and hopefully in the end we'll all have one concise reference list. I'll follow up late this evening with the first ref list and look to update it roughly every 3-4 days or sooner if necessary. If this proves to be a productive exercise possibly we could organize ourselves to together attack other areas of the case in this manner. You can try but it won't help.. Height recall is unreliable... and self reported heights are not accurate for wearing shoes.. The best we get is a range... and the FBI used 5' 8" as the lower bound for suspect reported hieghts, so unless you know something that they didn't you are still dealing with dissimilar datasets and estimates. Safe to say Cooper was most likely between 5' 8" and 6' in shoes... Sweet spot is 5' 10".. it would not surprise me if Cooper was "5' 9" to 5" 11" in shoes... self reported height would be less. Edited January 8 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62987 January 8 16 hours ago, olemisscub said: On the gold... this was convoluted. Gold plating like 14k is an alloy.. the tie clip would have that lower % alloy. The tie had many alloys from 53-99% and even 100% pure gold.. The tie clip would not be the source for the higher % alloys or the pure gold (99%) found on the tie,,, None of these are gold plating on cheap jewelry... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #62988 January 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: On the gold... this was convoluted. Gold plating like 14k is an alloy.. the tie clip would have that lower % alloy. The tie had many alloys from 53-99% and even 100% pure gold.. The tie clip would not be the source for the higher % alloys or the pure gold (99%) found on the tie,,, None of these are gold plating on cheap jewelry... Plating does not form a alloy. Plating is simply a cover ... mixture sprayed over some base. Alloy: a metal made by combining two or more metallic elements in some process, especially to give greater strength or resistance to corrosion. eg: "an alloy of nickel, bronze, and zinc" Tom's comments about dna are interesting. Multiple donors are no deterrent using today's technology, in fact some would see this as a challenge! Skin (epithelial) cells obtained from the tie knot should be explored aggressively regardless of how many donors are revealed. Somewhere in the mix should be Cooper if this was his tie ? Why is the Cooper tie so dirty! ? compared to control ties from lab engineers tested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeogenetics Edited January 8 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CooperNWO305 146 #62989 January 8 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cola said: -Coopers Height- Over next 2 weeks I invite anyone who would like to contribute to help compile an exhaustive reference list on all official records and verifiable statements concerning height. Over the next 2 weeks, I'll not respond to debate, conjecture, theory - what have you. The recorded facts of the case are what I will specifically collect and respond to and hopefully in the end we'll all have one concise reference list. I'll follow up late this evening with the first ref list and look to update it roughly every 3-4 days or sooner if necessary. If this proves to be a productive exercise possibly we could organize ourselves to together attack other areas of the case in this manner. One suggestion is to determine where the witnesses were at the time, their age, their height, etc. For instance, some saw him from a distance others up close. Some knew it was a hijack others not. Also look for qualifiers like tall or short or skinny or fat. Where was Cooper too? Standing sitting walking? How long did they see him and how many times? Note. Age is more relevant for determining his age not height. Edited January 8 by CooperNWO305 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 28 #62990 January 9 4 hours ago, olemisscub said: Gregory - 5'9 Mitchell - 5'9 to 5'10 Labissoniere - 5'10 Spreckel - 5'10 Lysne - 5'10 Tina - 5'10 - 6' in her first interview, 6' in her second interview Flo - 6'0 in her interview, 6'1 in her cockpit notes Alice - 6'1 Williams 6'1+ Thank you for kicking in the base descriptions, lets keep going deeper on this. Verified Standing Observations: Flo - 6'0 in her interview - Ref 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1682 Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1678 Flo -6'1 cockpit notes and in the teletype at 3:54- Ref- Flight Teletype Pg. 90 Tina - 5'10 - 6' first Interview Reno. - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 26979, 26976 Tina - 6' second interview Philly - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 2671 Hal Williams - Gate agent - 6'1 + - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 30701 Denis Lysne - Ticket agent - 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 5479 Nancy House - NO statement on HEIGHT GIVEN Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 30887 Unverified Standing Observation: Alice - 6'1 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 26993 Seated Observations: Bill Mitchell - 5'9 to 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 28459 Robert Gregory - 5'9 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 2040 Labissoniere - 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 28451 Cord Spreckel - 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1685 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cola 28 #62991 January 9 15 minutes ago, Cola said: Statement on Height REF: DropZone Post CKret Jan 28, 2008 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62992 January 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, georger said: Plating does not form a alloy. Plating is simply a cover ... mixture sprayed over some base. Alloy: a metal made by combining two or more metallic elements in some process, especially to give greater strength or resistance to corrosion. eg: "an alloy of nickel, bronze, and zinc" Tom's comments about dna are interesting. Multiple donors are no deterrent using today's technology, in fact some would see this as a challenge! Skin (epithelial) cells obtained from the tie knot should be explored aggressively regardless of how many donors are revealed. Somewhere in the mix should be Cooper if this was his tie ? Why is the Cooper tie so dirty! ? compared to control ties from lab engineers tested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeogenetics Wrong.. 14k gold is an alloy.. not pure gold. The tie clip was not pure gold. My point is that there is pure gold (99%) and many higher gold alloys that were not from the tie clip.. Edited January 9 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62993 January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cola said: Statement on Height REF: DropZone Post CKret Jan 28, 2008 So, Ckret was wrong.. Mitchell and Gregory had Cooper under 5' 10"... Cooper was seated almost the entire time.. he stood up to go to the lav when Tina was leaving the plane.. "Miss MUCKLOW furnished the following physical description of the unknown subject, it being noted that Miss MUCKLOW is approximately 5' 8" in height and she observed the hijacker in a seated position except for the brief period when he went to the lavatory." Research on witness recall for height shows that people don't actually know a suspect height but estimate based on averages based on other characteristics. Race, weight, build etc... Also, males are better at estimating a male height than females are... would Gregory and Mitchell estimate Cooper at 5' 9" if he was 6' or taller.. doubt it. but, safe to say Cooper in shoes was taller than Tina... how tall was Tina,,, exactly? Edited January 9 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #62994 January 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, FLYJACK said: Wrong.. 14k gold is an alloy.. not pure gold. The tie clip was not pure gold. My point is that there is pure gold (99%) and many higher gold alloys that were not from the tie clip.. The process of gold plating that tie clip probably involved putting an economical metal in a chemical solution that contains gold and then applying an electric current to the piece, unless it was done by the FLY JACK ALLOY METHOD! ? The other metal could have been copper. How do you do it using alloys? Tell us how it was done since you know! Show us a photo of the apparatus? Or is this another one of your FJ 'word" issues ? Alloy versus Appendicitis vs rectum ? Any more of your bullshit to deal with today? Edited January 9 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62995 January 9 12 minutes ago, georger said: The process of gold plating that tie clip probably involved putting an economical metal in a chemical solution that contains gold and then applying an electric current to the piece, unless it was done by the FLY JACK ALLOY METHOD! ? The other metal could have been copper. How do you do it using alloys? Tell us how it was done since you know! Show us a photo of the apparatus? Or is this another one of your FJ 'word" issues ? Alloy versus Appendicitis vs rectum ? Any more of your bullshit to deal with today? What do you think 14k gold is.. AN ALLOY. Do you think they use pure gold on $3.00 tie clasps.. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about and double down, trying insults digs you deeper. Don't waste my time.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #62996 January 9 (edited) 19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: What do you think 14k gold is.. AN ALLOY. Do you think they use pure gold on $3.00 tie clasps.. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about and double down, trying insults digs you deeper. Don't waste my time.. Listen yo moh - anyone who works in genetics knows about coatings! Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Anyone who makes and sells optics knows all about coatings and how plating is done - duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. According to your definition the human skull covered with skin is an alloy! ? Banana in a plastic sack is an "alloy " ? The bottle pictured is an "alloy" ? Sp again: TELL US HOW PLATING OF THE TIE CLIP WAS DONE - WHAT COMPANY PLATED THESE ITEMS THE MANUFACTURER? FOR A RETAILER TO SELL... DONT HOLD OUT ON US HERE! SHARE YOUR VAST WISDOM ON THIS SUBJECT! Edited January 9 by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 466 #62997 January 9 I posted this on the papermoney reddit which has over 130k subscribers. It's a Hail Mary shot, but who knows. The majority of the regular $20's would have been pulled from circulation ages ago, but some of the star notes may remain in the hands of collectors. Worth a try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62998 January 9 (edited) 12 hours ago, georger said: Listen yo moh - anyone who works in genetics knows about coatings! Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Anyone who makes and sells optics knows all about coatings and how plating is done - duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. According to your definition the human skull covered with skin is an alloy! ? Banana in a plastic sack is an "alloy " ? The bottle pictured is an "alloy" ? Sp again: TELL US HOW PLATING OF THE TIE CLIP WAS DONE - WHAT COMPANY PLATED THESE ITEMS THE MANUFACTURER? FOR A RETAILER TO SELL... DONT HOLD OUT ON US HERE! SHARE YOUR VAST WISDOM ON THIS SUBJECT! You are confused,, what a surprise.... Electroplating is the process.. you can electroplate an alloy. Pure gold 24k is considered 99%... other gold for example 14k, 18k or 22k are ALLOYS. Eric claimed his tie clasp example was 14k, most of the ones I found that match Cooper's MOP clasp are 18k... an alloy of 75% gold.. We don't know for sure which gold was on the tie clasp.. it was NOT pure gold, it was an alloy. Pure gold is not used on cheap jewelry and pure gold is soft and wears easily.. The gold on the tie clasp is an alloy. PERIOD. The process of electroplating is irrelevant. Edited January 9 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #62999 January 9 11 minutes ago, olemisscub said: I posted this on the papermoney reddit which has over 130k subscribers. It's a Hail Mary shot, but who knows. The majority of the regular $20's would have been pulled from circulation ages ago, but some of the star notes may remain in the hands of collectors. Worth a try. Yes, I have been checking star notes and some others with unique numbers like repeating digits or sequences with the same premise that people would save them as collectibles... Might consider mentioning the unique numbers as well.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CooperNWO305 146 #63000 January 9 4 hours ago, FLYJACK said: Yes, I have been checking star notes and some others with unique numbers like repeating digits or sequences with the same premise that people would save them as collectibles... Might consider mentioning the unique numbers as well.. I commented on Facebook about the notes and mentioned Nicky. He doesn’t like being called out for flip flopping on theories, so he deleted the comment. He has been adamant that the money could not be spent, and loves to quote the podcast with the money expert. At CC he referenced that podcast when asking Larry a question, but Larry basically said the money could be spent. It was embarrassing for Nicky. But now he’s singing a different tune trying to say the money was spent in order to discredit the William Smith theory. He’s completely all over the board on everything trying to push his agenda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
