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On 10/23/2020 at 7:25 PM, FLYJACK said:

Ok, I think I got it..  that wasn't the light he is referring to. It is the cabin pressure rate of change gauge. That makes more sense as the stair light is activated by the lever position.

cabinpressureguage.jpeg.b14b3f096537edb8cf9f934f0b69bc5b.jpeg

cabinpressure.jpeg.58171b70c4317dd8d280424938c574e7.jpeg

 

engineerpressure.jpeg.a074eda6e2bb27a858f7b50acd9cbca0.jpeg

It wasn't a light, it was the cabin pressure gauge on the Engineer's panel.

If the stairs bang up the light doesn't go out.. because the handle is not in the up detent.

 

 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

It wasn't a light, it was the cabin pressure gauge on the Engineer's panel.

If the stairs bang up the light doesn't go out.. because the handle is not in the up detent.

Well, I guess I will buy that. Rataczak doesn't say it was a light. He says 'an indicator on the Flight Engineer's panel'. That could be the cabin pressure gauge. I would say that when that gauge did a big fluctuation, this was the moment that Cooper actually jumped. 

You can almost envision what happened. Cooper finally gets the stairs to release. He sees they only drop a couple of feet and he's packing the chute and the money. What now? He gets a call from the cockpit while he's trying to figure out his next move. Then he turns around and starts backing down the stairs. Engines are screaming. What fun, right? ^_^

No one found the paper bag and briefcase, and the dummy chute was missing as well after the jet lands in Reno, so maybe he grabs those and tosses them over the side of the railing. Then he starts back down again. Cooper had balls, you have to give him that. At some point, he finally reaches the bottom of the stairs and either jumps outright, or pulls the ripcord and tosses out the pilot chute, it squids out the rest of the canopy and off he goes. Being a whuffo, that's my best guess. 

I don't think we will ever truly know the exact scenario of the jump, but I wonder (since he had no working reserve) if he just squidded off the end of the stairs. DZ member '377' has speculated that this may be exactly what happened. Or it's possible Cooper just said the hell with it and leaped right off the stairs. But trusting a chute provided by the FBI...well, that would take more nerve than I've got. And I've faced down a pissed-off charging bear with nothing more than a Belgian Browning 22 pistol. Yet even I wouldn't try the freefall route. B)

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Posted elsewhere by me, but I think it applies:

Most of our current problems can be traced to bad, and dishonest leadership the past four years. Fortunately, that ends in a matter of hours now. 

When the US version of this pandemic reaches 405,000 deaths, that will equal the number of our citizens killed by combat and 'other causes' in all of World War 2. 

Overall, we will reach this point soon, and it took not FOUR years, but less than a single year. This will get peoples' attention every time. 

Quote

"Hello...(hello)...is there anybody IN there..."

This is why we made the Cooper Festival Covid-free, my friends. This is a response to a few folks who thought it was foolish. Approval for this idea is overwhelmingly positive, without a doubt. And so is the response for the event itself. We are now approaching 200 submissions on the public email list. And we're not even past Trump yet, or into February.  I guess the lesson is you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. You never know. Even I could be lying about tossing the Festival at all. B) Maybe it's a big scam. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Interview with Jack Almstad NORJAK passenger..

Contradicts the FBI narrative...

 

https://patch.com/california/livermore/livermore-man-recaps-encounter-with-db-cooper

 

"A refueling truck and bus pulled up next to the plane. A person also entered the plane.

"They walked down the aisle and it looked like they were holding a pillow slip," Almstad said. "It had jagged points. Looked like a bag of bricks."

The bag likely contained the $200,000 ransom D.B. Cooper demanded, Almstad said."

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

Then a guy, I it was a man, came walking down the aisle with a white sack. To me, it looked like a pillow slip, and it had all these jagged points in it. And I remember the thought I had, that looks like bricks in it, or a bag of money, I thought,” Almstad said.

Almstad believes he may have seen the $200,000 ransom that Cooper had demanded, along with a parachute."

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12 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Interview with Jack Almstad NORJAK passenger..

Contradicts the FBI narrative...

 

https://patch.com/california/livermore/livermore-man-recaps-encounter-with-db-cooper

 

"A refueling truck and bus pulled up next to the plane. A person also entered the plane.

"They walked down the aisle and it looked like they were holding a pillow slip," Almstad said. "It had jagged points. Looked like a bag of bricks."

The bag likely contained the $200,000 ransom D.B. Cooper demanded, Almstad said."

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/08/04/bay-area-man-on-d-b-cooper-flight-recalls-hijacking/

Then a guy, I it was a man, came walking down the aisle with a white sack. To me, it looked like a pillow slip, and it had all these jagged points in it. And I remember the thought I had, that looks like bricks in it, or a bag of money, I thought,” Almstad said.

Almstad believes he may have seen the $200,000 ransom that Cooper had demanded, along with a parachute."

IMHO, Almstad's version, to put it politely, is inaccurate. In the San Francisco interview, Almstad's wife even makes a joke that he spent the short flight reading a book, 'probably a spy novel,' she says. (This tells me she's letting him run off at the mouth a bit with the reporter, but knows better. Somehow.)

The idea that the WA State Patrol, in cooperation with SeaFirst Bank and NW Airlines, would simply stuff the money into a pillowcase for delivery to the airport...well, it sounds ridiculous on its face. Banks have plenty of containers around for carrying money when necessary. Why would someone run home to grab a pillowcase from their bed? Rataczak got a look at the bag as it was coming on board. He says this:

Quote

'I’m not quite sure how to describe the bag other than it was a very coarse hap sack with a leather shoulder strap across it and a leather handle and the $200,000 was in that. He wanted a hiking-type knapsack, but knapsacks weren’t as popular then as they are nowadays, where every kid in the street has one. But obviously someone in the bank had the bag...'

Sounds more like the picture below, except with a shoulder strap to go along with the handle on it:

bankbag.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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UPDATE: Sounds like another Cooper show is in the works. If you have no info about this, contact me privately by email and I will fill in the details. However...I expect many of you will be contacted anyway. But due to my famous lack of trust in Cooperland, I'm not posting any information about who is involved in this particular production. Not publicly. 

Anyone else who has heard about this, feel free to fill in the details for others I guess. Not like I control what others say, you know. On the other hand, I don't think it serves any purpose to post information that comes my way about these things, and just see it all go down a one-way hole where no one responds to it. B) Or even a 'thank you for letting us know.'

Seen recently:

Quote

'The interview appears to be almost a whole chapter from the book "Into the Blast". I don't know whether the authors gave permission for such a lengthy quotation to be made public...'

Jesus H. Christ. Don't you guys at the Cooper Forum EVER go directly to the source? Excerpts from the book are allowed under Fair Use rules. I have no problem with this. People at the Cooper Forum quote me all the time...without bothering to source the material with the guy who helped write it...or even bothering to ask about this detail or that post, or that mention.

First rule of investigation and quoting, boys: 

Go to the source first. Excuse me, but duh. Otherwise you just get one-sided shit dumped on you. B)

I'm going to post (again) about the upcoming Cooper Festival in June, in case some of you missed it. We're just a hair past 200 names on the public email list and when it reaches 400, we're dumping the webpages at AB and elsewhere about it, and just trusting that 150-200 on that list will actually show up. If I allow it to go any further, we might not have room for everybody, and it could get to a size a bit unmanageable for us. I'm shooting for a quality crowd on this one, an event where not only can people feel reasonably safe, but know they are part of something really special. It's a give-back and a thank-you to Cooper fans from all over the Northwest. Or anywhere for that matter. Right now, submissions via the contact form have slowed to maybe 2-3 a week. But as spring approaches, slots will fill up fast. I am absolutely sure on this, judging from what people out there (99% of them I don't know) are telling me right now.

In other words, the folks who have signed up so far are spreading the word with their friends. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Good news, not particularly Cooper-worthy, but since the Cooper Festival requires attendees to be vaccinated against Covid-19, I thought I would mention it. 

Gayla, Greg the Techie Guy, and yours truly managed to obtain appointments for the first dose of the vaccine come February 3rd. We were lucky. Remaining slots filled up in minutes. We're all on the same day, same place, although a total of about six hours apart between the three of us. 

I have no problem with this. The waiting around between our three appointments. Frankly, Gayla and I have been risking our lives for the last ten months already. I say that because we go into different folks' homes and continue to keep the cleaning business going, and although we do have strict protocols, we cannot be sure where these customers and their families have been, or if they have been exposed and are/were not yet showing symptoms, or are asymptomatic. People talk their smack about us, and although we are not on the same level as first responders, we took to sterilizing (a new thing with us that started last March) as well as CLEANING these families homes...and YES...some of their family members were exposed to the virus. Still, we kept going. And it wasn't always for the money. There is a certain loyalty here to families that have been with us for over a DOZEN years or more. 

In those cases, we would put them on hold for a while until their situation was stabilized one way or another. But we never dropped anybody from service. We also know a couple of people who have actually died from this horrid virus. Every time we leave our home and go out there to do the job we've been doing for nearly twenty years, we are well aware of the risks. But we continue to take those risks as well as take the precautions we can. It's been stressful, it's been tough. Gayla is the most courageous person I know. Screw any of you who posted up shit about her at Bruce Smith's Mountain News. You are not worthy to lick the toilets she cleans, the kitchens she sterilizes for wonderful families. 

And this my friends...is why we made a requirement that anyone attending the Cooper Festival in June MUST be vaccinated against the virus. We're not on the front line like the hospitals, but we're not far behind them. We've done more for nice people in the last year than the idiots you see below, who helped bring misery and death and discord to this fine country. 

Fine.jpg

You've seen the people above. Now see someone below who actually CARES about others. From her trip to San Francisco with her mom, a few months prior to the virus:

FBgayla1.jpg.bc7f79985b17393cadf763ccdffc4aec.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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An Emmy award-winning TV producer from New York is calling us at the main AB office tomorrow. All I know is that it concerns the Cooper case, and that it would be wise if I answered the call. We will see. After our experience with director John Dower for his ridiculous 'The Mystery of D.B. Cooper' fiasco, I am not that hot to stick my neck out there into another DB Cooper production. However, I will listen to what this producer from New York has to say.

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Correction: In one of my previous posts on this page, I said we had 'just over 200 names on the public email list' for the Cooper Festival. That is wrong. My bad all the way. It's just over 100 (about 126), with an additional 22 or so people on a more private update list. The private list is mostly people known in Cooperland, along with some friends. The public list are the group who messaged us with questions and expressed interest in attending, mostly using the Contact Form. 

EDIT: I saw some posts over at the Cooper Forum, mostly by Bruce Smith, mentioning how Gayla, Greg, and yours truly got appointments Feb 3 for first doses of the Moderna vaccine, while he cannot find anything reasonably soon. Not sure what to say about all that except that we're pretty good hustlers when necessary. Not in the negative context of hustling, but in the positive context when it counts. 

Message to Bruce: No one hates you over here. We would be more than willing to help you. But you don't even answer our emails. And you continue to allow nasty comments about us, many of them containing outright lies about our relationship with Skipp Porteous. We even offered you a paid job hosting the Cooper Festival. All of which you ignored. 

How exactly do you expect people to react to such behavior? 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Just got off the phone with the NYC producer. I had to take him seriously. He's won an Emmy or two for his work. We spoke for about an hour. I won't discuss any of this at Dropzone, but I *may* be willing to talk about the whole thing if anyone wishes to contact me by email. If not, I'm okay with that as well. This producer may be contacting others involved in the Cooper case anyway. I didn't ask him about that, but that's the usual way these things work. 

UPDATE: This producer keeps emailing me with questions, some of which I can answer, some I cannot. It might be a good thing if a couple of you out there in Cooperland decided to stop being stubborn and contact me if you want to be involved in all this. Unless you want me to be the sole input, which I'm sure you do NOT want. I'm not even sure I want this. I'm not against directing some of you to him, but there is an issue of trust here. 

I am not going to discuss details on all this publicly. That's all there is to it. (Not at this point, anyway. Perhaps later.) Right now my main concern is pulling off the Cooper Festival in June, not so much working on another Cooper TV show, although I will do so if there is no other way. On the other hand, certain behaviors by *some* people in Cooperland, including a failure to support that Festival, makes me think all you would do with certain information is to start sending out the crappy emails to this producer. Or posting nasty junk about us at either DZ or the Cooper Forum, or even Mountain News for that matter. I can safely say that you should avoid this, because that possibility has been discussed...and this producer will NOT be impressed. Neither will he believe you if you start posting up lies about us in public. You will simply put him off. 

Media support, as well as general support for positive things that forward the Cooper case, or help sell books for the many Cooper book authors out there, as well as the sharing of information...well, that is a two-way street. 

After my previous experiences trusting some of the main characters exploring this case, you can see I have become pretty cynical about the whole thing. My main concern, as I said, is the Festival. 

There are also other difficulties (I was told) in even doing another multi-part Cooper show. The biggest one is the Covid situation. It makes shooting, casting, even TRAVELING by air very difficult. Remember...the last time anyone actually did a Cooper program was John Dower, and that was actually shot PRIOR to Covid. If I don't start seeing some coop on this project soon, what I might suggest to this producer is that they cover the Festival, since that's where there won't BE any Covid, and everyone in Cooperland has been invited. As it is, we already have three Cooper folks scheduled for presentations and I'm sure we will get more prior to June. That's a full five months down the road. 

If and when trust IS established between AB of Seattle and 'everyone else' in Cooperland...then we can work together for mutual benefit. But it seems like you guys just hack on everything we do whether it be good, bad, or indifferent. We're right where we want to be with the Festival at this point, so why should we trust you without a good reason? So far, you guys have been nothing for us but a pain in the neck. That can change, but you have to WANT that change. B) In the last few months, I have discovered that putting people on a need-to-know basis on certain things sometimes makes our life a lot easier. I don't particularly like doing that, you know. But it became necessary to do so. 

[email protected] 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Hmm. A response! (Albeit a pretty negative one, as usual.) And no...it wasn't Greg who provided me the recent quote by Shutter over at the Cooper Forum. I will answer Shutter's points one at a time. 

SHUTTER: Robert, the begging needs to stop. you have posted constantly about wanting help that you apparently are not going to get.

ROBERT: No one is begging. Festival planning is going on track just fine. I am not the one asking for help. I was merely offering an opportunity. 

SHUTTER: If the producers really want to speak with people they should know how to find them. you use everything as a tool. Minnow was award winning and you spoke highly of them until they bypassed you. now they are garbage?

ROBERT: Minnow Films is not garbage. But director John Dower was not completely honest with us. He indicated the show was an attempt to explore, and possibly solve the Cooper case. Turned out he only wanted to present the fringe (okay, weird) elements that exist in Cooperland. As a result, his work was panned by the critics and wasted our time. At least we got paid. 

SHUTTER: You have been bad mouthing just about every single person for the last 5 or 6 years. now, you try something and expect everyone to open there arms for you. the thread is dead thanks to you. nobody comments there except Flyjack and even he has you on ignore.

ROBERT: When I speak negatively about someone or some THING in Cooperland, there is usually a legit reason. And when I have done this, I put my name, and usually some solid evidence behind it. I don't just spout outright lies anonymously, as Bruce Smith has been known to support on his website. There is a difference. As far as this DZ thread being 'dead,' that is a fantasy. DZ has over 100,000 members and many read this thread. So do many others who aren't registered here. Flyjack putting me on his ignore list affects none of that in the slightest. I will point out that when this thread re-opened, I have seen little or nothing in the way of positive posts by both YOU, or almost anyone at your website. 

SHUTTER: He contacted you, so it will be you holding things up by not giving any information. stop blaming it on others. nobody sends emails that have not been included in something and asked about you. it's you that sends emails (poison pen) several times with things that had nothing to do with you. your a hypocrite and a liar. I don't want anything to do with you. take a good look at the DZ. you made it the way it is today. you go back all night long changing the posts.

ROBERT: I have been known to edit posts, yes. But mostly to include more information, or make them more clear. I didn't say I wouldn't provide information. I said I wouldn't do it on a one-way basis, and I wouldn't do it publicly. You are even MORE of a hypocrite. Your biggest posters also support lying and hateful posts on their own websites, and you never say a thing to them about it. If you are going to surround yourself with a glass house, you should leave the rocks outside. 

SHUTTER: Get the hint...the change is in your hands and not mine. grow up and take responsibility for your actions. you haven't shown any improvement since I've known you and don't expect you to change. make sure you lie more and say Greg sent you the latest comments..

ROBERT: That's your opinion. Sorry I can't 'buckle up and comply' to your standards. Your failure to support anything Cooper-related simply on personal issues, EMOTIONAL issues, simply proves you are slanted, and ignores the needs and wants of your own forum members. You keep forgetting them. It's always about you-you-you and your emotions, and little else. A few of the more reasonable members you have on that forum contact me privately occasionally. They still support you, but they also don't like the fighting. They think it goes nowhere, and so do I. Maybe I should just tell this producer that because of the endless in-fighting, lack of mutual support, and almost no cooperation within Cooperland...that the whole thing is hopeless anyway. 

EDIT: It is not my fault that the planning for the June Cooper Festival has gone so well, and that people other than Cooper Forum members are very enthusiastic about it. (The public) It is not my fault that an Emmy award-winning producer contacted us. But you have to look at things from our point of view occasionally. You've been against EVERYTHING we've ever done in the Cooper case, whether it was good or indifferent. So now you want us to just throw out everything for you publicly. Why should we do that when we know you would simply use that information to continue what you've always done? Which is to use it to go negative on us. (You have a history that is well-known to us about all that. And so do some of your biggest members, although not all of them.) YOU are the ones who need to change.

Yes, there have been problems within Cooperland. But it helps if you least call out both sides of the question, instead of going one-sided on everything and trying to blame everything except global warming on me. ^_^ It's also pretty juvenile to post up comments directly aimed at me on a site where I can't answer you...and then just expect me to drop by, copy them over to here, and respond to you here.

Grow up. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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After talking to Gayla and Greg this morning, we came to some decisions. 

We're too busy with the Festival stuff to get involved in any TV productions right now. 

We will tell the producer who contacted us that they are welcome to cover the Festival, and we will cooperate with them on that if they wish. But on anything else we just can't.

I have no wish to be involved in another big fight, backstabbing, whatever goes on regarding the production of another TV show on Cooper. 

If you are contacted to be a part of this planned production, our best to you and good luck. Be we are out of it.

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Oh, brother...Greg the Techie Guy tells me today we have to move the Cooper Festival to the SECOND weekend of June, (June 11-13) rather than June 4-6. (First weekend of June) Something about a family gathering in Eastern Washington he has to attend on June 5. 

I will do this, but it means sending out a pair of group emails, deleting a video from YouTube and creating another one, changing some stuff at the main AB website, changing a WordPress article, and the same thing at Quora dot com. 

Well...I suppose it's better he told me now instead of like in May or something. The upside is that chances are better the weather will cooperate, the later into June we go. Also, any additional time we can give people to get the Covid-19 vaccine (an absolute requirement for attendance) can't hurt. I will also have to request a mod to our US Forest Service permit. That shouldn't be a problem this far in advance. Will handle this before the end of the week. 

Anyone who is on the email list and reading this now should plan on us making those changes right away. No use in waiting. On a side note, I'm not driving all the way back up to Greenwater to do another video. I will just set up a background and shoot it in my office this time. :bang:      

Update:  Webpages at AB updated. WordPress article updated. Quora article deleted for now. Video deleted from YouTube in preparation for creating a new one. Group emails going out tomorrow afternoon. 

As far as the Cooper TV series goes, I already said we are declining on that one. After the John Dower fiasco, I just don't want to be involved in any more of them, unless they want to cover the Festival independently. Full-length feature film on contract? (Not a documentary) Sure. Another TV documentary? No. Coverage of the Festival by any and all media? No problem there. A couple of local media have already expressed an interest. 

If you need information about all that (proposed TV series on Cooper), I'm not hard to find. Best wishes to anyone who decides to get involved. Sounds a bit more legit than the Dower production, so you might want to consider it. As far as the Cooper Festival, I counted names today and we have exactly 141 people on the public list. When the list approaches 400, I'm cutting it off right there and *assuming* (yeah, it's a gamble) that perhaps no more than HALF of them will actually show up. Truth is, trying to go past 250 attendees will be a stretch, and just because someone signs up at the website doesn't necessarily mean they will drive out to Greenwater and show up in person. We figure maybe 150-200 at the most. At least that's what we hope. If ALL of them actually showed...big venue or not...we will have to get creative. But I'm betting not all of them are serious, and some probably will decline at the last minute if they haven't gotten the Covid vaccine by Festival weekend. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/db-cooper-tina-mucklow-untold-story-1111944/

 

"Recently, Mucklow has reconsidered her silence, agreeing to occasional interviews. This year, marking the 50th anniversary of the famous crime, she’s consulting on the production of a scripted film — an action thriller by Joey McFarland and Dawn Bierschwal — about the crew’s experience of the hijacking."

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/db-cooper-tina-mucklow-untold-story-1111944/

 

"Recently, Mucklow has reconsidered her silence, agreeing to occasional interviews. This year, marking the 50th anniversary of the famous crime, she’s consulting on the production of a scripted film — an action thriller by Joey McFarland and Dawn Bierschwal — about the crew’s experience of the hijacking."

Interesting article by Rolling Stone. They always get the good stories. 

Gee. I wonder who said those nasty things below about her? Hmm. (*laughs*) We all know the answer, of course. No, it wasn't me. The closest I ever got to Mucklow was submitting a letter, a report, and some pictures to her sister and brother-in-law in Shelton, WA. 

Quote

"After several attempts to get Mucklow to talk to him, one prominent follower of the case called Mucklow a “social isolate,” “quick to anger,” “bitter,” a “recluse,” “fragile,” a “wounded woman,” and “traumatized,” in a single blog post..."

I would say that Mucklow's comments for Rolling Stone put to rest any persistent rumors that she is hiding anything or somehow 'cooperated' with Cooper. 

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Cossey made a Cooper replica for Tosaw... Cossey signed card.

A 28' Reliance...

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed-190703299

This is a replica parachute of the chute used by D.B. Cooper in his legendary skyjacking. This replica parachute was owned by Richard Tosaw, former FBI agent, and packed by Earl J. Cossey. Richard Tosaw wrote the first book on D.B. Cooper called, "D.B. Cooper, Dead or Alive?" This parachute is an estate item. I don't know if the parachute works, and have left it packed. It seems to be in good condition.

b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed_1_59889d9af101947f735e40fbb29a08d9-5.jpg.c4bb8d813c06407358eb85c4b7e77398.jpg

b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed_1_59889d9af101947f735e40fbb29a08d9-7.jpg.3c785e693ae5c3ff10d8b435042c9b5c.jpg

b-cooper-replica-parachute-packed_1_59889d9af101947f735e40fbb29a08d9-6.jpg.bad010def0af07af989c3bf68f880a0a.jpg

 

That chute matches Cossey's description in the FBI files, it does not match Hayden's description.. 

Hayden claimed he never spoke with FBI...  yet they quote him describing the chutes.

Hayden claimed both chutes were identical... but the two described by the FBI and Cossey were not..

Clearly, this replica chute does not match Hayden's.

 

1. 

MAKE: Pioneer 

TYPE: 26 ft white ripstop conical, 

SERIAL NO: 226, 

DATE OF MFR 9/57 (1957)

packed by Cossey 5/21/71 

(Hayden got this one back)

 

2. 

MAKE: Pioneer 

TYPE: 24 ft white ripstop conical, 

SERIAL NO:  60-9707,   

DATE OF MFR: 7/60 (1960)

packed by Cossey 5/21/71 

(This back chute was left on the plane, ID'd by National Guard in Reno)

 

9707chutefoundplane.jpeg.171752ad2ec04eeb637795eefc5dba74.jpeg

 

Hayden requested his chute back, believing one was left and one taken...

The FBI responded to Hayden in the plural, "these chutes ... "they"..  did the FBI still have both of Hayden's chutes..

haydenaskchutes.jpeg.17eca6b592a61e1a574165e456355b42.jpeg

 

 

 

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(edited)
7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The harness date is April 1957...   consistent with Hayden chute 1 .. and not a potential error source for chute 2 data.

Maybe, but...

That particular label is for the harness itself. The rig consists of three* major components, the harness*, the container*, and the parachute canopy. They would have separate part #'s, serial #'s, and dates of manufacture.

* The harness and container are separate components, but are then sewn together as one unit. They could make a batch of harnesses, then use the same harness type on different container types. That label seems to indicate that it's just for the harness. The other stamped number has a 'P', indicating a part #, and there doesn't seem to be a serial # for it. Somewhere on the container I believe would be another label for the harness/container assembly, and I would expect that to have the serial #.  (The canopy is a separate component altogether, and any of a number of canopies could be installed in a rig, as long as the pack volume was compatible with the container size.)

Also note that the DOM of the harness is APRIL of '57, while the canopy's DOM is SEPTEMBER of '57.

--------

From your previous post...

The information lists seem to be from the canopies themselves, and would indeed indicate different rigs. That they were both packed by Cossey on the same day might indicate that those are both of Hayden's rigs. If so, then that supports your original conclusion - If both of Hayden's rigs are accounted for, then what rig did Cooper jump and where did it come from?

Also of note from the first post... That picture of the replica rig also shows the ripcord housing going to the left side, not the usual right side. And the ripcord is not routed through the housing, you can see the rc cable and handle stowed under the pack opening bands. Those bands had actual metal coiled springs in them. In early days before soft closing loops, one side flap of the container had metal cones, which would fit through grommets on the other side flap, then the ripcord pins would go through holes in the cones. Sometimes the cones and grommets would not want to separate, causing a 'total' malfunction, where the container did not open. Those spring loaded bands would pull the flaps apart, opening the container.

Edited by dudeman17

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3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Maybe, but...

That particular label is for the harness itself. The rig consists of three* major components, the harness*, the container*, and the parachute canopy. They would have separate part #'s, serial #'s, and dates of manufacture.

* The harness and container are separate components, but are then sewn together as one unit. They could make a batch of harnesses, then use the same harness type on different container types. That label seems to indicate that it's just for the harness. The other stamped number has a 'P', indicating a part #, and there doesn't seem to be a serial # for it. Somewhere on the container I believe would be another label for the harness/container assembly, and I would expect that to have the serial #.  (The canopy is a separate component altogether, and any of a number of canopies could be installed in a rig, as long as the pack volume was compatible with the container size.)

Also note that the DOM of the harness is APRIL of '57, while the canopy's DOM is SEPTEMBER of '57.

 

 

I was referring to the date on the harness only.. Hayden's returned chute harness data is not the source for any sort of possible dating error. The card for that chute showed S/N 226 for three packing jobs so it isn't the chute either. We don't know about any numbers on the container itself.

dbc-parachutes-hayden-card-pararchute-identification-4.jpg.7043e984088bb61a653c699cfceca92f.jpg

 

BTW, the S/N for the 1960 Pioneer back chute "noted" found left on the plane was 60-9707, the precursor digits "60" is consistent with a 1960 manufacture date.  (year - serial number)

 

Cossey claimed that he had modified the ripcord location on Cooper's rig..

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

We don't know about any numbers on the container itself.

Somewhere on the container (often on the backpad, up against the wearer's back) is a little pocket where the packing card goes. Usually there's a little flap that folds out of it, and that is usually where the container info is. I was speculating 'over there' the possibility that someone might have written the container SN on one report, and someone else might have written the canopy SN on the other. But with the specificity of the info you provide, different size canopies and all, that would appear to not be the case.

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