DB Cooper

[Cola 26]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, I have been checking star notes and some others with unique numbers like repeating digits or sequences with the same premise that people would save them as collectibles...

Might consider mentioning the unique numbers as well.. 

 

Anyone have an xls or cvs file of the star notes and full ransom list that they would be willing to share....

 much appreciated
 

[olemisscub 463]

46 minutes ago, Cola said:

 

Anyone have an xls or cvs file of the star notes and full ransom list that they would be willing to share....

 much appreciated
 

 

DBCooper-StarNotes.xlsx cooperserialnumbers.pdf

[Cola 26]

15 hours ago, olemisscub said:

 

DBCooper-StarNotes.xlsx 16.41 kB · 1 download cooperserialnumbers.pdf 28.5 MB · 3 downloads

 

Thank you so much!!

Just to ask, have run the the star notes through ebay's completed listings before? 

[olemisscub 463]

11 minutes ago, Cola said:

 

Thank you so much!!

Just to ask, have run the the star notes through ebay's completed listings before? 

Perhaps not the old listings from years ago, but there is a computer programmer in the Vortex who has created a program that can compare serial numbers in real time to serial numbers that appear in ebay listings. I believe he turned it on a week ago and it'll just continue running until he turns it off. It'll send an alert to him if there is ever a match. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Nobody knows if the bills were spent or not..  or lost.. or hidden??

For people claiming the bills would have been destroyed if in circulation,,,

I found a Cooper serial number match to a circulated 1963 $1 bill.

L00000004B

https://currency.ha.com/itm/small-size/federal-reserve-notes/fr-1901-l-1-1963a-federal-reserve-note-pmg-very-fine-25/a/3516-16537.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115

and a second 1974

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1974-one-dollar-bill-low-serial-1944779999

What are the odds of that???

 

Edited January 10 by FLYJACK

[Cola 26]

4 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Vortex who has created a program that can compare serial numbers in real time to serial numbers that appear in ebay listings.

Thank you for the background, VBA scraping eBay was the direction I was heading on this.  May not hurt to do for redundancy. Good to know someone's done this and is keeping tabs. 

Have you heard of anyone in the Vortex looking into the Bureau of Engraving and Printing to see if they have a data dump available for the bills they have destroyed?

Maybe that's obtainable with an inquiry or possibly under FOIA ?

 

 

Edited January 10 by Cola

[olemisscub 463]

2 hours ago, Cola said:

 

Have you heard of anyone in the Vortex looking into the Bureau of Engraving and Printing to see if they have a data dump available for the bills they have destroyed?

 

I believe that they didn't begin recording the serial numbers of destroyed currency until 1990. 

[Cola 26]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:00 AM, Cola said:

 

Thank you for kicking in the base descriptions, lets keep going deeper on this. 

 

Verified Standing Observations:

 

Flo - 6'0 in her interview  -  Ref  302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1682

 

 

 

Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1678

Flo -6'1 cockpit notes and in the teletype at 3:54- Ref- Flight Teletype Pg. 90

 

 

 

Tina - 5'10 - 6' first Interview Reno. - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 26979,  26976

Tina - 6' second interview Philly - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 2671

 

Hal Williams - Gate agent - 6'1 + - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 30701

 

 

 

Denis Lysne - Ticket agent -  5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 5479

 

 

 

Nancy House - NO statement on HEIGHT GIVEN Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 30887

 

 

 

Unverified Standing Observation:

 

Alice - 6'1 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 26993

 

 

Seated Observations:

 

Bill Mitchell - 5'9 to 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 28459

 

Robert Gregory - 5'9 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 2040

 

Labissoniere - 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 28451

 

Cord Spreckel - 5'10 -  Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1685

 

 

 

Height Update 1 –

I have only posted new references on observations of height since Monday.

Updated  Verified Standing Observations:

 

Flo - 6'0  -  Ref  302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1682

 

 

Tina - 5'10 - 6' first Interview Reno. - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 26969,

 

 

 

Tina - 6' second interview Philly - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 26977, 26978

 

 

Likely Standing Observation :

 

Alice - 6'1 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 1682

 

 

 

 

Updated Seated Observations:

 

 

 

Robert Gregory - 5'9 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 2040 or Cooper-28464, DB Cooper-22340, DB Cooper-14876, 22507

 

 

 

Labissoniere - 5'10 - Ref- 302 Pg. DB Cooper – 28451, 28452 

 

 

 

Looking to be exhaustive.If anyone has additional references that deal with observations of Cooper seated or standing please post.

Edited January 11 by Cola

[olemisscub 463]

How did Cooper know about the location of the portable oxygen tanks? Or was he just lying to Tina? It seems highly unlikely someone who is unfamiliar with some of the more intricate details of the 727 would know that the portable tanks are in these "bussels" (as Tina called them). These were situated right behind the rear row of the plane on both sides. When I asked the NWO flight attendant where a rear cabin stewardess would have likely stowed her purse on a 727, she said that they had these little compartments on the floor behind the rear row of seats. She said they put purses there to keep them safe since no passenger would ever go snooping in there. Presumably this is where Flo retrieved her purse from. Tina also checked there for the bomb. 

Edited January 12 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 654]

24 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

How did Cooper know about the location of the portable oxygen tanks? Or was he just lying to Tina? It seems highly unlikely someone who is unfamiliar with some of the more intricate details of the 727 would know that the portable tanks are in these "bussels" (as Tina called them). These were situated right behind the rear row of the plane on both sides. When I asked the NWO flight attendant where a rear cabin stewardess would have likely stowed her purse on a 727, she said that they had these little compartments on the floor behind the rear row of seats. She said they put purses there to keep them safe since no passenger would ever go snooping in there. Presumably this is where Flo retrieved her purse from. Tina also checked there for the bomb. 

This is a push...

Cooper..

1 could have read the label on the cover. He was siting right across in view and there is a label. Look closely.

2 could have researched it prior in case the plane went above 10,000 ft. perhaps on a previous 727 flight

3 could have just been brushing off Tina

4 could have actual 727 experience..

 

I lean toward 1 or 2 but who knows.

[olemisscub 463]

2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

This is a push...

Cooper..

1 could have read the label on the cover. He was siting right across in view and there is a label. Look closely.

2 could have researched it prior in case the plane went above 10,000 ft. perhaps on a previous 727 flight

3 could have just been brushing off Tina

4 could have actual 727 experience..

 

I lean toward 1 or 2 but who knows.

Any of those 4 options would make sense to me.

It's an exhibition of what is so confounding about the evidence in this case. There are no outright smoking guns that indicate his actual background. The most I'm willing to affirmatively say is that he had a history with aviation to some degree or another. I also don't think it's too far of a limb to climb out on to suggest that he may have had pilot training at some point, perhaps even being a pilot himself.

I believe the fact that he called their bluff on them having to wait for IFR Clearance is highly suggestive of some experience as a pilot that extended past WWII. My research indicates that IFR clearances are a post-WWII mechanism. Military pilots during the war didn't have that training and probably didn't even know what it was. That specific phrase "IFR clearance" doesn't show up on Newspapers dot com until 1954 or so. So him calling their bluff on that, if that's indeed what he was doing, illustrates more recent experience with aviation, from mid-1950's forward. 

[FLYJACK 654]

58 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Any of those 4 options would make sense to me.

It's an exhibition of what is so confounding about the evidence in this case. There are no outright smoking guns that indicate his actual background. The most I'm willing to affirmatively say is that he had a history with aviation to some degree or another. I also don't think it's too far of a limb to climb out on to suggest that he may have had pilot training at some point, perhaps even being a pilot himself.

I believe the fact that he called their bluff on them having to wait for IFR Clearance is highly suggestive of some experience as a pilot that extended past WWII. My research indicates that IFR clearances are a post-WWII mechanism. Military pilots during the war didn't have that training and probably didn't even know what it was. That specific phrase "IFR clearance" doesn't show up on Newspapers dot com until 1954 or so. So him calling their bluff on that, if that's indeed what he was doing, illustrates more recent experience with aviation, from mid-1950's forward. 

Agree, this case is riddled with uncertainties... 

IFR goes way back though,, I agree Cooper had some flying experience and it may be after 1950's but IFR did exist prior so earlier exposure can't be ruled out,, or maybe both.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/history-visual-flight-rules-vfr-world-invention-airpaceaviation

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/about/history/pioneers/First_Instrument_Flight_Doolittle.pdf

Edited January 12 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 463]

23 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Agree, this case is riddled with uncertainties... 

IFR goes way back though,, 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/history-visual-flight-rules-vfr-world-invention-airpaceaviation

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/about/history/pioneers/First_Instrument_Flight_Doolittle.pdf

Yep, I understand it technically pre-dates WWII. I'm just arguing that pilots in WWII weren't generally trained in anything except VFR. Furthermore, having to actually receive an IFR Clearance was not standard until the late 50's when the FAA came along. The point is, I believe it's highly suggestive, although certainly not at all dispositive (unfortunately) that his experience with aviation went beyond just WWII.

I often point to copycat Melvin Fisher as the closest analog to Cooper of the copycats (I'm aware you and I disagree on that haha). He had been a pilot trainee in the war, but apparently flunked out and ended up on a bomber crew. Like with Cooper, his pilots seemed to think he knew a thing or two about aircraft. But would his experience in WWII have made him capable of calling the pilots bluff if they said they had to wait to get their IFR Clearance? I'd guess not. But obviously we can't be sure. I'll message Mac and see if he knows what IFR clearance is. Surely with 2,000 hours on an aircraft in the 1960's he'd know what that was. 

Edited January 12 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 654]

18 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Yes, I understand it technically pre-dates WWII, but I'm arguing that pilots in WWII weren't generally trained in anything except VFR. Furthermore, having to actually receive an IFR Clearance was not standard until the late 50's when the FAA came along. The point is, I believe it's highly suggestive, although certainly not at all dispositive (unfortunately) that his experience with aviation went beyond just WWII.

I often point to copycat Melvin Fisher as the closest analog to Cooper of the copycats (I'm aware you and I disagree on that haha). He had been a pilot trainee in the war, but apparently flunked out and ended up on a bomber crew. Like with Cooper, his pilots seemed to think he knew a thing or two about aircraft. But would his experience in WWII have made him capable of calling the pilots bluff if they said they had to wait to get their IFR Clearance? I'd guess not. But obviously we can't be sure. I'll message Mac and see if he knows what IFR clearance is. Surely with 2,000 hours on an aircraft in the 1960's he'd know what that was. 

More info..

The FAA replaced the Civil Aeronautics Administration...

They had IFR rules, here an example in 1947...  (may be earlier)

essentially it says.. ATC has the determination for flight plans.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwibuKfs0NiDAxVxIDQIHfXpDCMQFnoECCYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Frosap.ntl.bts.gov%2Fview%2Fdot%2F52922%2Fdot_52922_DS1.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0V7w-cvOM10CWCE65apAb9&opi=89978449

 

[olemisscub 463]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

More info..

The FAA replaced the Civil Aeronautics Administration...

They had IFR rules, here an example in 1947...  (may be earlier)

essentially it says.. ATC has the determination for flight plans.

 

Regardless of when it came about or where he picked it up from, he knew that they could receive their IFR clearance (several miles wide, several miles long, and 2000 feet deep) in the air. He was confident enough in knowing that information that he called their bluff on it. I'd say he also seemed to have confidence in his knowledge of the refueling procedures. 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 minute ago, olemisscub said:

Regardless of when it came about or where he picked it up from, he knew that they could receive their IFR clearance (several miles wide, several miles long, and 2000 feet deep) in the air. He was confident enough in knowing that information that he called their bluff on it. I'd say he also seemed to have confidence in his knowledge of the refueling procedures. 

Yes, Cooper had aviation experience and that rules out a lot of suspects.

Edited January 12 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 146]

I’d post this on Facebook, but Nicky is an admin and will delete it and none of the other admins will question him. 

Well, I didn’t see this one from Nicky coming. Apparently William J. Smith was afraid of heights. This one is baffling and is just one more thing to indicate how deep Nicky’s vendetta goes. 

Smith joined the Navy to fly. He volunteered for combat air crew training. He then completed Aviation Fundamentals school, then aerial gunner training and then aerial photography training. He was assigned to a Naval attack squadron and was on the aircraft carrier USS Leyte. But somehow he was too afraid to even clean the gutters on his house. 

Cooper or not, this is a great cover story for someone wanting people to not suspect you of being Cooper. Also, him having part time jobs, particularly one he got in 1980 are a good cover. Note: the Tena Bar money was found in February 1980. 

Nothing in Smith’s records indicate any issues with heights. When you’ve done what Smith did in the Navy, you don’t all of a sudden fear heights, unless maybe you’re hiding something or had some trauma related to heights. I still get a rush out of heights and I didn’t fly anywhere as much as Smith. That’s not a fear that’s a rush. 

Nicky has his enablers that don’t question a word he says, no matter how ridiculous. Jay is the main one, he claims to be a critical thinker, but he is never critical of Nicky. Nicky also has a few others who like all his posts and give him support, but will bash Eric and I. This same group will report me on Facebook and at the same time be nice to my face. 

I offered to one of Smith’s daughters to speak to her confidentially about William. What is unfortunate is that Nicky’s source chose him. Remember, Nicky is the one who pretended to be a female nurse to trick Robert Rackstraw. He’s also the one who has had three suspects and even suggested that Sheridan was tied in with Rackstraw. He also suggested strapping one of the Ingrams to a lie detector. I hope his source likes the part about him pretending to be a female nurse. 

I offered to provide his source with names of honest individuals. There are unbiased people in and out of the Vortex who would talk to the family. 

I’ll be getting a blog post out in the future that sums up what we’ve learned about Smith the past few months. All Nicky has done is successfully incited his source and helped dig a big hole when it comes to exonerating Smith. Nicky was a very poor choice for a contact. This all goes back to Vordhal for him, because he and I were fine before that. 

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I’d post this on Facebook, but Nicky is an admin and will delete it and none of the other admins will question him. 

Well, I didn’t see this one from Nicky coming. Apparently William J. Smith was afraid of heights. This one is baffling and is just one more thing to indicate how deep Nicky’s vendetta goes. 

Smith joined the Navy to fly. He volunteered for combat air crew training. He then completed Aviation Fundamentals school, then aerial gunner training and then aerial photography training. He was assigned to a Naval attack squadron and was on the aircraft carrier USS Leyte. But somehow he was too afraid to even clean the gutters on his house. 

Cooper or not, this is a great cover story for someone wanting people to not suspect you of being Cooper. Also, him having part time jobs, particularly one he got in 1980 are a good cover. Note: the Tena Bar money was found in February 1980. 

Nothing in Smith’s records indicate any issues with heights. When you’ve done what Smith did in the Navy, you don’t all of a sudden fear heights, unless maybe you’re hiding something or had some trauma related to heights. I still get a rush out of heights and I didn’t fly anywhere as much as Smith. That’s not a fear that’s a rush. 

Nicky has his enablers that don’t question a word he says, no matter how ridiculous. Jay is the main one, he claims to be a critical thinker, but he is never critical of Nicky. Nicky also has a few others who like all his posts and give him support, but will bash Eric and I. This same group will report me on Facebook and at the same time be nice to my face. 

I offered to one of Smith’s daughters to speak to her confidentially about William. What is unfortunate is that Nicky’s source chose him. Remember, Nicky is the one who pretended to be a female nurse to trick Robert Rackstraw. He’s also the one who has had three suspects and even suggested that Sheridan was tied in with Rackstraw. He also suggested strapping one of the Ingrams to a lie detector. I hope his source likes the part about him pretending to be a female nurse. 

I offered to provide his source with names of honest individuals. There are unbiased people in and out of the Vortex who would talk to the family. 

I’ll be getting a blog post out in the future that sums up what we’ve learned about Smith the past few months. All Nicky has done is successfully incited his source and helped dig a big hole when it comes to exonerating Smith. Nicky was a very poor choice for a contact. This all goes back to Vordhal for him, because he and I were fine before that. 

Why is Nicky deleting posts??

[CooperNWO305 146]

22 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Why is Nicky deleting posts??

He was flip flopping on whether the money could have been spent. He was adamant for years that it couldn’t be, but as soon as he found out Smith did not live in luxury, he changed his mind. I called him out on it and he deleted the post. He’s been telling Smith’s daughter what she wants to hear. She said he never wore glasses and never walked with a limp (she was 6). Nicky responded to this with “his name should be cleared from the record”. 
 

What we are dealing with is someone who changes his theories to fit his agenda, and then acts as if this major change is due to new evidence and that it is part of good research. This method essentially allows people to pick and choose whatever theory they want that day or suspect. It’s one thing to tweak your ideas and stay within your basic principles, but to make major shifts after studying the case for years is just odd. 

[CooperNWO305 146]

The attempts to discredit Max Gunther continue, to include Nicky attempting to contact people who knew Max and his family, trying to contact his family in hopes of finding info to discredit him, as well as others claiming Max’s book was completely made up. It’s one thing when a journalist writes a book review, but when members of the public insinuate that Gunther lied, then that impacts his credibility and affects sales of his books, which affect his estate and heirs. There are three main people taking part in this hatchet job on Max’s credibility. None of whom can hold a candle to his writing success. Legal fees add up when you go after an author like that. 

[FLYJACK 654]

19 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

The attempts to discredit Max Gunther continue, to include Nicky attempting to contact people who knew Max and his family, trying to contact his family in hopes of finding info to discredit him, as well as others claiming Max’s book was completely made up. It’s one thing when a journalist writes a book review, but when members of the public insinuate that Gunther lied, then that impacts his credibility and affects sales of his books, which affect his estate and heirs. There are three main people taking part in this hatchet job on Max’s credibility. None of whom can hold a candle to his writing success. Legal fees add up when you go after an author like that. 

I find that most don't actually understand Gunther's book premise..  what he is actually claiming as fact. He did not claim as fact that he was contacted by Cooper or that "Clara's" story was true.

 

Basically, these are what Gunther claims are true.

Gunther and others were contacted by somebody claiming to be Cooper.

Gunther contacted the FBI and Himmelsbach.

Gunther was contacted by a "Clara" and given a narrative.

 

 

[georger 194]

8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I find that most don't actually understand Gunther's book premise..  what he is actually claiming as fact. He did not claim as fact that he was contacted by Cooper or that "Clara's" story was true.

 

Basically, these are what Gunther claims are true.

Gunther and others were contacted by somebody claiming to be Cooper.

Gunther contacted the FBI and Himmelsbach.

Gunther was contacted by a "Clara" and given a narrative.

 

 

Gunther is claiming he is a writer and a member of the Media writing about the DB Cooper case and people should pay attention to him !

Gunther is running for political office using the DB Cooper case!  Like Ulis ? 

Gunther can't claim any actual connection to the case or expertise that actually applies to the case, so he has to come up with something that gives him special status!

In the end, Gunther claims he was contacted by the hijacker and/or someone close to the hijacker ! That's a tall claim.................

No New Yawk accent was noted for the hijacker but he is living in New Yawk ...... before he conveniently died. ?

Edited January 16 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

25 minutes ago, georger said:

Gunther is claiming he is a writer and a member of the Media writing about the DB Cooper case and people should pay attention to him !

Gunther is running for political office using the DB Cooper case!  Like Ulis ? 

Gunther can't claim any actual connection to the case or expertise that actually applies to the case, so he has to come up with something that gives him special status!

Wise words...

[CooperNWO305 146]

8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I find that most don't actually understand Gunther's book premise..  what he is actually claiming as fact. He did not claim as fact that he was contacted by Cooper or that "Clara's" story was true.

 

Basically, these are what Gunther claims are true.

Gunther and others were contacted by somebody claiming to be Cooper.

Gunther contacted the FBI and Himmelsbach.

Gunther was contacted by a "Clara" and given a narrative.

 

 

As noted by some, there has been a recent uptick in trying to discount Gunther. These people were silent on it a year ago. This group flip flops from saying it’s real but it can’t be tied to anyone, and then they claim it’s all made up, then they throw out names of who it could be. It’s coming from the JV squad and no one listens to them anyhow. When they don’t have a foothold in the case, they just pick something to complain about or someone to target like Smith, Hahneman, or Vince Peterson. None of them are deep or creative thinkers. 
 

We have DNA and it’s only a matter of time before that leads us to an individual or individuals through one to one testing or genetic genealogy. The good news is that I still have DNA left to test. I expect something solid within a year. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Nope, ears.