19 19
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

It isn't meh,,, why do you even respond.


This is important, it goes to the probability that the prints were from Cooper.

The prints used to compare to suspects were from a magazine that nobody saw Cooper use. AND, there were prints from a partial magazine noted, was that the same one from the back of the seat or a different one?

The first sweep of the plane found no prints of value.

It looks like they may not have had Cooper's prints at all.

printsnovalue.jpeg.8151b6886605d0634e7563939dbd6bf1.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

It isn't meh,,, why do you even respond.


This is important, it goes to the probability that the prints were from Cooper.

The prints used to compare to suspects were from a magazine that nobody saw Cooper use. AND, there were prints from a partial magazine noted, was that the same one from the back of the seat or a different one?

The first sweep of the plane found no prints of value.

It looks like they may not have had Cooper's prints at all.

printsnovalue.jpeg.8151b6886605d0634e7563939dbd6bf1.jpeg

My point was...even if they HAD viable prints...what the heck do you compare them to for identification? There are only a limited number of possibilities. 

1) Live suspect. The best way, of course. But this possibility becomes more remote with each passing year. Cooper was a smoker after all, and would be about 90 or so today. At least. 

2) Run your latents through the FBI's print database. Trouble is...if Cooper doesn't have a criminal record, he won't be found in that database anyway. And many of the print records get destroyed each year, either from submitted death reports from coroners, or other channels. So if Cooper is dead, he probably isn't in there anyway.

3) Try having the military records guys do comparisons. But if Cooper was in the military prior to 1973, chances are greater than not his fingerprints were destroyed in the Big Bad 1973 St Louis fire.

4) And if it's true that the FBI has ZERO viable prints...why are we discussing this print stuff anyway?  On the other hand...if they DID have a few viable prints...they would have run them multiple times over the years, and if Cooper was in their print files, they would have discovered who he was by now. My guess is he was never arrested, and the crime he pulled was a one-off deal. If he HAD an extensive criminal record, or even a moderate one, it is likely (also) they would have figured out who he was at some point, even without prints.

It's occurred to me that if Cooper did NOT have a criminal record, but WAS in the military, he probably was happy reading stories about that 1973 military records fire. "Yeah, baby. Ha ha..." ('They'll never catch me NOW...')

Pictures below of the fire, which raged for days. Much restoration of records was done using whatever was left after the fire, plus SOME records (like company records) to establish the basic facts on whether you were in the military or not. For vets benefits, etc. But your print set was located in only ONE place...your main record in St Louis. 

One caveat:  It IS strange that the FBI found no latents in the rear airstairs area. Almost as if Cooper had a pair of gloves in that bag he carried. And maybe...he lost them on the way down. That would explain why (possibly) a pair of gloves came up missing in that store robbery the night of the hijacking. 

 stlouisfire2.jpg.1ae096687543a8a67f9f477bf2b94a00.jpg

stlouisfire1.jpg.e92e47bb9d555c4e8bee67ce40358b6f.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Screaming deals made today for at least some of the additional gear we need for the Cooper Party:

Nice set of three-way floor speakers for the stereo/PA system. (Craigslist) JBL's with no cracking on the speakers and I tested them for volume and possible damage. Worked great...very loud if you want with no distortion, and only $30 for the pair. A steal. I already have a powered subwoofer for a center speaker. 

Stereo receiver from Amazon that has bluetooth, USB input, and media card, with two microphone front inputs, and two Aux inputs in the rear. On sale at Amazon. One microphone with high ratings also on sale. No stand yet, but working on it. This package was less than a hundred bucks.

I figure we now have the PA and music system covered. All I need is a microphone stand.  

The basic deal here is Greg and I (and a couple of the planning committee folks) created a list of what we need and we're picking up these items from the list (and then checking them off) as we go. In this way we can spread out some of the initial costs. We also got two more apps today with requests to attend. Added to the email list with the others. I'm telling people not to expect any updates until after Christmas. 

Greg has suggested today we pick up one additional flush toilet and one more shower/toilet tent like the one in the picture below. One for men, one for the women. Makes sense to me. That's why Greg is smarter than I am. He said one shower, one toilet won't cut it for all these people. He's right. As they say, "We're working on it." As far as waste disposal, our plan calls for two deep holes away from the campsite with a shovel nearby. (YES, this method of human waste disposal is allowed by the US Forest Service. I checked.) Guess who gets to DUMP the toilet tanks when they get full and refill with the deodorizer and fresh water. Yeah...wouldn't you know it? I always get the crappy jobs. B) Good thing it's only a two-night event instead of a week. 

1696664513_showertent.jpg.8be0130bbf17f86adcbd7ca7feac32a6.jpg

EDIT: Decided to show folks that regardless of a few detractors, we're moving forward. And it's still six months until the Big Show. Click image to view full size. 

LatestGearOrder.jpg.a6884b1c0f231f94b004e4f4d5b57feb.jpg

Why was the total bill only 48 cents for the most recent order? I get a lot of Amazon gift cards around Christmastime. That's why I like them as prizes for the Lookalike Contest. They're fun to spend. No worries. I promise not to spend the ones we buy for prizes. B) Our plan is finally starting to come together, and I don't believe we'll have any trouble after Christmas filling up the slots. Even if we end up creating a monster, I told Greg we could handle it. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

My point was...even if they HAD viable prints...what the heck do you compare them to for identification? There are only a limited number of possibilities. 

1) Live suspect. The best way, of course. But this possibility becomes more remote with each passing year. Cooper was a smoker after all, and would be about 90 or so today. At least. 

2) Run your latents through the FBI's print database. Trouble is...if Cooper doesn't have a criminal record, he won't be found in that database anyway. And many of the print records get destroyed each year, either from submitted death reports from coroners, or other channels. So if Cooper is dead, he probably isn't in there anyway.

3) Try having the military records guys do comparisons. But if Cooper was in the military prior to 1973, chances are greater than not his fingerprints were destroyed in the Big Bad 1973 St Louis fire.

4) And if it's true that the FBI has ZERO viable prints...why are we discussing this print stuff anyway?  On the other hand...if they DID have a few viable prints...they would have run them multiple times over the years, and if Cooper was in their print files, they would have discovered who he was by now. My guess is he was never arrested, and the crime he pulled was a one-off deal. If he HAD an extensive criminal record, or even a moderate one, it is likely (also) they would have figured out who he was at some point, even without prints.

It's occurred to me that if Cooper did NOT have a criminal record, but WAS in the military, he probably was happy reading stories about that 1973 military records fire. "Yeah, baby. Ha ha..." ('They'll never catch me NOW...')

Pictures below of the fire, which raged for days. Much restoration of records was done using whatever was left after the fire, plus SOME records (like company records) to establish the basic facts on whether you were in the military or not. For vets benefits, etc. But your print set was located in only ONE place...your main record in St Louis. 

One caveat:  It IS strange that the FBI found no latents in the rear airstairs area. Almost as if Cooper had a pair of gloves in that bag he carried. And maybe...he lost them on the way down. That would explain why (possibly) a pair of gloves came up missing in that store robbery the night of the hijacking. 

 stlouisfire2.jpg.1ae096687543a8a67f9f477bf2b94a00.jpg

stlouisfire1.jpg.e92e47bb9d555c4e8bee67ce40358b6f.jpg

The point is they were using unknown prints from a magazine Cooper was never seen using to eliminate suspects..  Some have claimed they never had Cooper's prints, I see why.

and that Cooper didn't leave prints in the areas of the plane you'd expect to find them. No prints on the rear stair rail indicates gloves. Alice? said no gloves but she left in Seattle and I don't think Tina ever said that.

The FBI at one point claimed they didn't have the evidence and the case was only solved if Cooper co-operated.

If they didn't have Cooper's prints, how does the FBI put a suspect on the plane pre DNA.

 

And what is the deal with the partial magazine? Was that the same one or a different one?

 

Cooper may have used the tie to wipe for prints..

 

fingerprints19824.jpeg.daeae8095785328c34c53c7f0b80ece4.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/2/2020 at 9:39 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

I flat out don't believe Gunther's story, or else he was hoodwinked by someone and saw the opportunity to write a book about the whole thing and present it as truth. Himmelsbach has pointed out that some of the hijacking details presented by the so-called Cooper don't match the historical facts. 

Similar books have been done. And the most famous one was done by Clifford Irving, a guy who was caught at it but had a career similar to Max Gunther's. In other words, despite one possibly phony book, he had an otherwise pretty successful career...both before and after the hoax.  Once he got out of jail, he resumed his writing career and hardly missed a beat. 

If Gunther's book is a hoax, the reason he didn't get caught was because Cooper is not Howard Hughes, a real person who came forward and called the 'Autobiography of Howard Hughes' a phony. In Gunther's case, there was almost no chance he could be caught at it.

Irving, on the other hand, was betting that Hughes, since he had been completely reclusive for years, would not come forward, yet surprisingly, Hughes did. 

 

A bit off topic, but I highly recommend Irving's book on Hughes.  It's available on Amazon.  It's really good.  If it hadn't been fake, it would have won a Pulitzer.

It was well researched and enough of it was true that it fooled people who knew Hughes and his story well.  They had gotten access to (stole actually) a book being written by one of his disgruntled senior managers and used information in it.  However, you don't know which parts were true and which parts were made up.  Some of the stories were rumors that only the real Hughes would have known all the details, and he made up details to fill it in.  (Not unlike many with Cooper suspects they like).  For example, there is a story of Hughes meeting Ernest Hemingway.  It was an interesting interaction.  But, since Hemingway was long dead by the time Irving wrote the book, I suspect that story was all fiction.

 

Sorry for the aside.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were two books of matches...

Cooper had a book that ran out, Tina attempted to throw it into the ashtray and he recovered the empty pack..  that empty book he recovered had notes written on it. That suggests he took the matchbook because of the note not the potential prints.. 

He left the cigarette butts,, no prints were found.

Tina gave him the Sky Chef book to replace the empty book which he kept.

coopermatchbooknote.jpeg.fbed52a8e6661b8a2f07db710240f78d.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MarkBennett said:

A bit off topic, but I highly recommend Irving's book on Hughes.  It's available on Amazon.  It's really good.  If it hadn't been fake, it would have won a Pulitzer.

It was well researched and enough of it was true that it fooled people who knew Hughes and his story well.  They had gotten access to (stole actually) a book being written by one of his disgruntled senior managers and used information in it.  However, you don't know which parts were true and which parts were made up.  Some of the stories were rumors that only the real Hughes would have known all the details, and he made up details to fill it in.  (Not unlike many with Cooper suspects they like).  For example, there is a story of Hughes meeting Ernest Hemingway.  It was an interesting interaction.  But, since Hemingway was long dead by the time Irving wrote the book, I suspect that story was all fiction.

 

Sorry for the aside.

 

You have nothing to apologize for. And you are right about some Cooper books, especially the one concerning Walter Reca. A smart writer would have had Reca bailing out where the real Cooper did, and making his way back to Cle Elum, instead of trying to make people believe Flight 305 just 'went there' first. It would have been much more believable. I won't make any harsh comments regarding Into The Blast except to say I might not have the right suspect, but none of it is made up, and none of it is false filler. In its current version, a couple of things are incorrect (mostly about the house purchase), but there are no deliberate falsehoods in it. 

The only two times I ever did that in twelve years of Cooper Stuff was when I swore that Captain Smith went back to speak to Cooper, and when I said the Palmer Report was 'on the way' when I didn't even know for sure it WAS coming. And it never did show up. That was embarrassing. Besides, I always tell people to forget about the book and just download the full report on KC from the Adventure Books website. It's much more accurate than the book because we knew a lot more by the time it was released. When you don't have all the answers, it's best to ensure that what you do have is true. 

I haven't read Irving's book, but for three bucks on the Kindle version I might go ahead and pick it up. 

Hmm...tried to call Bradley Cooper this morning and I see the last number I had for him is disconnected. Might have to do US Search to find the current number. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been saying this forever,,

COOPER's original demand was aft airstairs lowered inflight..

That is why he wanted to fly nonstop to Mex and that is why he wanted so much fuel..

When Reno was in play..  his plan changed, he wanted out earlier than he had planned. That means no ground accomplice, no specific landing spot,,, an ad hoc jump into an unknown area.

Cooper's LZ was NOT his original plan. If not then where,, IMO, MEXICO

more evidence,,, Harrison. Demands.. aft stair lowered in flight.

harrisonpapairstairlowinflight.jpeg.0d52fd9d56b366de265cb183e100da68.jpeg

 

Hard to read but it says aft stairs be extended after takeoff,, later changed..

aftstairstakeoffa.jpg.a5cdf23c2902e7da23148290921ac623.jpg.578e7b71f1d5b98092c1ea672afea5d1.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are trying to indicate Cooper REALLY wanted to go to Mexico. If he wanted to do that...why would he want the airstairs lowered hours before they could actually REACH Mexico. And Cooper was no fool. He had absolutely no intention of telling anyone hours in advance where he really wanted to go. They would be ready and waiting for him the moment he crossed the border. And the Federales would not only have confiscated the money eagerly, but they probably would have beat the shit out of him on his way to jail. 

Ask yourself WHY Cooper would want the airstairs lowered as soon as they were at altitude. 

Because he had no intention from the start of going to Mexico, or even to Reno for that matter. He was planning to bail not long after the stairs were lowered. He wanted no one to know when he jumped, or where. The only thing he didn't know, and didn't count on, was the aft airstair indicator on the Flight Engineer's panel. He probably didn't know it existed. And even if he did...he probably figured no one would know his exact jump point anyway. But he also didn't account for the rebound effect on the indicator light, or the pressure bump caused by him jumping off the stairs. 

Any place Cooper told them he wanted to actually GO....WAS A LIE. Unless he were stupid enough to really tell that information. And I don't think Cooper was stupid. 

Remember...Cooper started out in Portland on a flight going north to Seattle. From his comments, he obviously knew the Seattle area from the air. If he wasn't planning to jump between Portland and Seattle, it would make much more sense for him to hold the flight in Portland right on the ground before takeoff...right THERE...get his money and chutes...and THEN head south to Mexico. Why would he allow the flight to go to Seattle and get everything in Seattle? This makes no sense. His plan all along was simple. 

1) Board flight for Seattle because he wanted to go there for the money and the chutes. (EDIT: I will grant you that perhaps Cooper wanted to be in the air, and to give Seattle time to gather his requested money and chutes. And that's why he didn't hold the plane on the ground in Portland.)

2) Not reveal the truth on where he was going, to confuse a ground search or a lookout. 

3) Planned to jump about as quickly as the door could be opened. My theory is that he wanted to bail just south of Olympia, but was forced to remain a bit longer because of the difficulty in getting the stairs down. 

4) If Cooper really intended to go to Mexico, he wouldn't have lowered the stairs before they reached Reno. Even an idiot would know that another takeoff would be impossible after the airstairs dragged on the ground. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

The most effective lies are those that are wrapped in a blanket of truth.

Joseph Goebbels, the Minister of Propaganda for Nazi Germany, would disagree. He said people will more often believe a big, ridiculous lie then they will a smaller series of lies. He called this tactic, 'The Big Lie'. For example, people believed him when he announced that the Allied forces were being slaughtered and forced off the beaches at Normandy. 

On the other hand...we all know what happened to him in the end. :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You are trying to indicate Cooper REALLY wanted to go to Mexico. If he wanted to do that...why would he want the airstairs lowered hours before they could actually REACH Mexico. And Cooper was no fool. He had absolutely no intention of telling anyone hours in advance where he really wanted to go. They would be ready and waiting for him the moment he crossed the border. And the Federales would not only have confiscated the money eagerly, but they probably would have beat the shit out of him on his way to jail. 

Ask yourself WHY Cooper would want the airstairs lowered as soon as they were at altitude. 

Because he had no intention from the start of going to Mexico, or even to Reno for that matter. He was planning to bail not long after the stairs were lowered. He wanted no one to know when he jumped, or where. The only thing he didn't know, and didn't count on, was the aft airstair indicator on the Flight Engineer's panel. He probably didn't know it existed. And even if he did...he probably figured no one would know his exact jump point anyway. But he also didn't account for the rebound effect on the indicator light, or the pressure bump caused by him jumping off the stairs. 

Any place Cooper told them he wanted to actually GO....WAS A LIE. Unless he were stupid enough to really tell that information. And I don't think Cooper was stupid. 

Remember...Cooper started out in Portland on a flight going north to Seattle. From his comments, he obviously knew the Seattle area from the air. If he wasn't planning to jump between Portland and Seattle, it would make much more sense for him to hold the flight in Portland right on the ground before takeoff...right THERE...get his money and chutes...and THEN head south to Mexico. Why would he allow the flight to go to Seattle and get everything in Seattle? This makes no sense. His plan all along was simple. 

1) Board flight for Seattle because he wanted to go there for the money and the chutes. (EDIT: I will grant you that perhaps Cooper wanted to be in the air, and to give Seattle time to gather his requested money and chutes. And that's why he didn't hold the plane on the ground in Portland.)

2) Not reveal the truth on where he was going, to confuse a ground search or a lookout. 

3) Planned to jump about as quickly as the door could be opened. My theory is that he wanted to bail just south of Olympia, but was forced to remain a bit longer because of the difficulty in getting the stairs down. 

4) If Cooper really intended to go to Mexico, he wouldn't have lowered the stairs before they reached Reno. Even an idiot would know that another takeoff would be impossible after the airstairs dragged on the ground. 

You don't understand the issue.. He opened stairs early AFTER Reno was in play and his plan changed. Why is this so hard to understand.

 

Cooper plans to jump south of the US border, he demands no stops in the US, full fuel and aft stairs to be lowered inflight by the stew. 

The crew negotiates to land and refuel in Reno.

Cooper changes his plan and now wants stairs open on takeoff so he can jump ASAP before the plane lands in Reno.

Crew convinces Cooper to open stairs inflight, he still wants out ASAP... opens after takeoff and jumps after some trouble with the stairs.

 

Your claim that he wouldn't want the stairs opened hours before Mexico makes no sense. Cooper changed his plan after Reno was in play, get it... Prior to Reno, Mexico makes perfect sense..

 

1.) He wanted the plane in the air while his demands were being met. He is most vulnerable sitting on the ground.

2.) Cooper wanted Mex City OR anywhere in Mex no stopping in US.. that means somewhere S of the US border.

3.) He wanted out ASAP only after Reno stop was added. Why, he changed his demand from aft stairs opened inflight to open on takeoff. That change is a tell. 

4.) You have that wrong.. if Reno was never in play there was no reason to open stairs right away. He opened early when his plan changed because the plane was going to land in Reno and he didn't want to be on the plane when it landed..  that is when he is most vulnerable. 

 

Further, Cooper was not dressed for a PNW jump. There is no way Cooper makes a demand to go to Mex nonstop that he knows is impossible and would be rejected by the pilots.. The only possibility is that Cooper wanted and believed the plane to go to somewhere in Mex nonstop in US... when that was rejected he changed his demand and his jump plan.

The tell is the fact that Cooper changed his airstair demand when Reno was in play... if he wanted to jump in the PNW from the get go, there was no reason for it to change.

 

Initial demand, MEX nonstop in US,, he wants stairs opened inflight 

Reno in play,, he changes and wants stairs open on take off..  that indicates his jump plan changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he was planning on jumping in Mexico, I can think of a few places a lot better to jump early than over western Washington. Once the flight would have reached eastern Oregon, or even northern Nevada, it's pretty open country with far fewer trees to get in the way. As long as he's still in the USA, per the instructions from NWA's CEO, no one is really going to mess with him. He could still get fuel in Reno. The doors would remain closed. They could take off again. But Cooper immediately nixed all those ideas by wanting the stairs opened NOW. Seems strange, since he did have some time to consider options. Once the airstairs are opened, those options vanish. 

I dunno. This presentation you have forwarded that Cooper really wanted to go to Mexico as he told them is a little weak. Not impossible, but weak. He obviously knew the Seattle/Tacoma area from the air, and may have even driven to Portland FROM Seattle. He ends up IN Seattle. Once he gets over Mexico, the authorities would be well-prepared for him. The jet would be followed, on radar, reports from the crew, the transponder, more radar. With that many more hours for them to prepare, he wouldn't have had much of a chance of escaping. 

You are right about the unsuitable clothing, but there's no telling what he had on underneath that suit, or whatever was in the paper bag. I think telling them Mexico was the destination was simply a ploy on Cooper's part. When he agreed to Reno, all he did was narrow the search window a bit. It's an acceptable theory. I don't agree with it, but it isn't ridiculous either. 

Most of the hijackers who actually told the truth about their destinations were places they couldn't easily be extradited. Cuba, Algiers...and the Algiers hijacking those two actually switched jets along the way. (Cathy Kerkow and Roger Holder) Mexico, had they caught Cooper, would have sent him back to the USA almost immediately, if they didn't jail him for a while first.

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

If he was planning on jumping in Mexico, I can think of a few places a lot better to jump early than over western Washington. Once the flight would have reached eastern Oregon, or even northern Nevada, it's pretty open country with far fewer trees to get in the way. As long as he's still in the USA, per the instructions from NWA's CEO, no one is really going to mess with him. He could still get fuel in Reno. The doors would remain closed. They could take off again. But Cooper immediately nixed all those ideas by wanting the stairs opened NOW. Seems strange, since he did have some time to consider options. Once the airstairs are opened, those options vanish. 

I dunno. This presentation you have forwarded that Cooper really wanted to go to Mexico as he told them is a little weak. Not impossible, but weak. He obviously knew the Seattle/Tacoma area from the air, and may have even driven to Portland FROM Seattle. He ends up IN Seattle. Once he gets over Mexico, the authorities would be well-prepared for him. The jet would be followed, on radar, reports from the crew, the transponder, more radar. With that many more hours for them to prepare, he wouldn't have had much of a chance of escaping. 

You are right about the unsuitable clothing, but there's no telling what he had on underneath that suit, or whatever was in the paper bag. I think telling them Mexico was the destination was simply a ploy on Cooper's part. When he agreed to Reno, all he did was narrow the search window a bit. It's an acceptable theory. I don't agree with it, but it isn't ridiculous either. 

Most of the hijackers who actually told the truth about their destinations were places they couldn't easily be extradited. Cuba, Algiers...and the Algiers hijacking those two actually switched jets along the way. (Cathy Kerkow and Roger Holder) Mexico, had they caught Cooper, would have sent him back to the USA almost immediately, if they didn't jail him for a while first.

It isn't weak, it is the preponderance of the evidence... your argument is the weak one. It requires assumptions.

To reject Mexico as a destination you have to assume Cooper was lying and engaged in a ruse.. that makes no sense.

It is not reasonable or rational to assume that Cooper knew his request to go to MEX nonstop in US was fake.. 

It just doesn't make sense that Cooper made a demand that he knew could not be achieved, would have to be rejected and renegotiated.

Therefore, Cooper believed and wanted the plane to fly nonstop to MEX..

Once you get that it all makes sense.

So, why? He didn't want to land anywhere in the US once he had the money and no passengers.. that would be a big risk. On the ground he could have been picked off by a sniper. He was vulnerable, especially if he had a fake bomb and no weapon.

If he wanted to jump ASAP from the get go, then he could have demanded to fly almost anywhere.. and wouldn't care if the plane landed somewhere in the US.

He specifically demanded no landing in the US FOR ANY REASON...

but the tell,,, he changed his demand once Reno was in play.

Once Cooper realized the plane was landing in Reno, he demanded aft stairs down on take off. Why the change,, he didn't want to be on the plane when it landed in Reno and jumping ASAP was his best option.

 

Other factors, He was Latin/Mexican.. He was not dressed for a jump in the PNW weather..

The evidence supports the Mex theory.

The argument against it requires assumptions to reject the evidence. A weaker position.

 

Mex is big place, he could have directed the plane and jumped anywhere, so he was not specific by stating Mex..

Cooper making those initial demands wanted to be out of US airspace and authorities.. it all changed when Reno was in play.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no evidence that Cooper was 'Latin or Mexican'. Even the best witnesses couldn't totally agree on his appearance, as well as some of the passenger witnesses. He may have been. But there is no proof of it. 

What I don't understand is how you figure that the FBI and the Justice Department were so dumb that you assume nobody in those organizations even CONSIDERED the idea that Hahneman and Cooper might be one and the same. Hahneman was caught doing a similar hijacking on the east coast just a few months after Cooper caper. Same MO. Money demands and parachutes. Going south of the border. Sound familiar? FBI probably thought so too.

But unlike Cooper and a calm demeanor, Hahneman was no-bullshit with the passengers, most of whom got a good look at him. Some of them were threatened by him with a gun, face to face. There is no mystery going with Hahneman. He was a known quantity for sure. His picture was published in newspapers nationwide. I don't think there's any doubt that after he jumped over Honduras, the FBI wondered if he was also Cooper. At least at first, anyway. But when he surrendered and was returned to the US to stand trial, no one even hinted that he might be Cooper. Why? 

Obviously, they dismissed him from that idea pretty quickly, for reasons unknown so far to everyone. I think it was one of two reasons, and more possibly BOTH. 

First, the Cooper witnesses themselves may have been consulted and given the FBI a flat-out no. He's not Cooper. And they would be using real pictures of Hahneman, not sketches of a suspect. 

Second, the FBI probably established his whereabouts around the dates of the hijacking and he had an alibi for the Cooper crime. You have not been able to do this yourself with Hahneman. Somehow, the FBI probably did. Witnesses, family testimony, work records perhaps. It's easier to do these things when you know exactly who you are holding in jail awaiting trial.

Don't you think also...somewhere along the way during his 12 years in the Federal pen...that they would have figured out he was also Cooper? Yet there isn't even a mention of him in the Cooper files. 

Just because Cooper told them to go to Mexico doesn't mean he actually planned to GO there. Maybe he just wanted them to have one hell of a search area...like half of the United States, for example. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the TV show History's Mysteries has gone from bad (episode on Cooper) to worse. 

This time, they go to Antarctica and try to locate the sea floor wreck of the Endurance, the ship associated with explorer Ernest Shackleton. They know the location from Shackleton's detailed records. It's sitting on the bottom of the Weddell Sea about 3,300 meters down. 

First, they damage beyond repair their only submersible that can take pictures of the wreck. 

Then they get trapped in the ice for a while, as Shackleton did. 

Finally, they reach the site and launch their one other submersible, a small submarine with side-scanning sonar...and they lose that as well. They never do find it. 

Everyone goes home with their tail between their legs, after losing millions of dollars of scientific gear. 

The Cooper Curse strikes again. B)

On a side note, I don't know why I keep calling Brad Collins, the guy who wrote the Cooper book, as Brad Cooper lol. Maybe I believe his story or something. 

I was asked the other day why I stopped publishing Escape Velocity Magazine, the sci-fi mag we once did in 8.5x11 paperback, and later for the Kindle. I even deleted the website eventually. Well...it was just way more work than two or three people (plus contributors) could handle. Was fun while it lasted and shows I have more interests than just Cooper. (One of our covers shown below) 

EVfrontWebONly.jpg.e3ecfd50aa8419b1db08513e3eb3209d.jpg

One of the big things we did each issue was to interview someone famous in sci-fi, maybe a writer, sometimes an actor. We did this in a Ten Questions format. (Same as the format for the Marla Cooper interview) One time I got the opportunity to interview Stefan Arngrim, the kid from Land of the Giants. It was a good interview, but I cut off com with him after his sister accused him of molestation when they were younger. Who do you believe? Scheming Nellie (Alison Arngrim) from Little House, or the kid from LOTG? I didn't know. I have an opinion on it, but I'm not saying what it is, at least not publicly. But the interview itself was solid. :/

Which reminds me of a funny story. When Alison was on Little House as a teenager, she was shopping down on Rodeo Drive. As she came out of a store, this lady slapped her right in the face, told her she was a bad person...and that SHE was going to 'write a letter to Laura Ingalls and tell Laura what you have planned'. Or something. Alison was so shocked, she hardly knew what to say. She finally said it was just TV and not reality. Then she walked away. But she never forgot that incident. Some people are just weird. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

There is no evidence that Cooper was 'Latin or Mexican'. Even the best witnesses couldn't totally agree on his appearance, as well as some of the passenger witnesses. He may have been. But there is no proof of it. 

What I don't understand is how you figure that the FBI and the Justice Department were so dumb that you assume nobody in those organizations even CONSIDERED the idea that Hahneman and Cooper might be one and the same. Hahneman was caught doing a similar hijacking on the east coast just a few months after Cooper caper. Same MO. Money demands and parachutes. Going south of the border. Sound familiar? FBI probably thought so too.

But unlike Cooper and a calm demeanor, Hahneman was no-bullshit with the passengers, most of whom got a good look at him. Some of them were threatened by him with a gun, face to face. There is no mystery going with Hahneman. He was a known quantity for sure. His picture was published in newspapers nationwide. I don't think there's any doubt that after he jumped over Honduras, the FBI wondered if he was also Cooper. At least at first, anyway. But when he surrendered and was returned to the US to stand trial, no one even hinted that he might be Cooper. Why? 

Obviously, they dismissed him from that idea pretty quickly, for reasons unknown so far to everyone. I think it was one of two reasons, and more possibly BOTH. 

First, the Cooper witnesses themselves may have been consulted and given the FBI a flat-out no. He's not Cooper. And they would be using real pictures of Hahneman, not sketches of a suspect. 

Second, the FBI probably established his whereabouts around the dates of the hijacking and he had an alibi for the Cooper crime. You have not been able to do this yourself with Hahneman. Somehow, the FBI probably did. Witnesses, family testimony, work records perhaps. It's easier to do these things when you know exactly who you are holding in jail awaiting trial.

Don't you think also...somewhere along the way during his 12 years in the Federal pen...that they would have figured out he was also Cooper? Yet there isn't even a mention of him in the Cooper files. 

Just because Cooper told them to go to Mexico doesn't mean he actually planned to GO there. Maybe he just wanted them to have one hell of a search area...like half of the United States, for example. 

Lots of assumptions and complete inaccuracies packed in there..

Cooper was described universally as Latin/Mexican in features and appearance. To claim otherwise is dishonest.

As for Hahneman, you know virtually nothing about him and less about the FBI investigation.

You use weasel words like "obviously", "may have been" and "probably"...  to make claims of fact, amateur stuff. You make a lot of assumptions about things you have no knowledge of...

How do you know they dismissed him? you don't.

The Cooper case is not your average crime,, something is going on that is either a gross error or intentional to cause this to remain unsolved by authorities.  

The FBI admitted that they didn't have the evidence and needed Cooper to co-operate.. if Hahneman didn't co-operate then they couldn't put him on the plane. For his May '72 hijacking, he cut a deal, plead guilty to a reduced charge and didn't go to trial. He was out in 12 years..

The reason I started looking into Hahneman was because he fit the Cooper description perfectly and committed virtually the same crime but there was no info on why he was NOT Cooper, I mean ZERO.. that was bizarre. We have info on many weaker suspects...  He was labeled a copycat which was false, he planned it for almost a year pre-dating NORJAK... I found no info that eliminated Hahneman and more and more that matched.

 

My pet peeve with this case and the Cooper community in general is that people use ASSUMPTIONS to dismiss evidence or theories,,, that is poor analysis,, YOU USE FACTS, NOT ASSUMPTIONS.

If there is EVIDENCE that eliminates Hahneman I want to see it,, I have been looking and I haven't found it...

Regarding Hahneman, I have found very high level intervention and 100% false statements from the FBI..  either they were engaged in disinfo or grossly incompetent.

Don't give me BS assumptions. 

latinmexican.jpeg.a150342a3724dd32ac3ca0787e557de4.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, what are some cons on Ted Braden? Seems like if you had to invent someone who checks all the boxes it would be him:

- Skydiving expert with almost 1,000 jumps under his belt 

- Fearless and described as having a death wish

- 44 years old, not very large, swarthy, from the Midwest 

- Had a criminal mind and the ingenuity to come up with the concept in the first place

- Angry about being underpaid while in the military and about the CIA blacklisting him from being an overseas mercenary 

- Almost certainly jumped from 727’s in Vietnam while serving in the SOG’s

- Intensely calm under pressure 

- smoker and drinker 

Would the only major con be that he wasn’t familiar (that we know of) with the area into which he jumped? Although would that really be an enormous detriment to a guy who had jumped into Laos, Cambodia, and North Vietnam? I’d think jumping into a pine forest would be less complicated than a triple canopy jungle.

You guys are the experts, is there a major con that I’m missing on Braden? He makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than just about every other “known” suspect. Someone talk me out of this.

0D003718-9414-4C0F-B63D-E0DEAE9C1F82.jpeg

0802AFFC-CC15-4BEF-941D-C6A1A2801279.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay...I did read your entire post carefully. You keep saying you haven't found anything that eliminates Hahneman. 

Well...how about something in the nature of evidence that actually POINTS to him as a suspect in the Cooper hijacking then? And I don't mean what he did for a living, or what he looks like. I mean stuff like witness testimony, physical evidence, or at least being able to place a guy from Pennsylvania in the Great Northwest around the time of the hijacking? Something in this nature...anything. You can't even say whether Hahneman had a valid alibi for 11/24/1971. And you can bet your bottom dollar on two things. Number one:  You can bet that the FBI wondered if Hahneman was Cooper as well. Similar MO. Six months later. Number two:  They're going to see if he IS. And they do that first by seeing if he had an alibi for the time of the Cooper hijacking. What you are missing is a core of information about all that. For some reason unknown to either of us, Hahneman is never mentioned as a potential suspect for Cooper. Why? I already gave the most likely reasons...either they were easily able to establish his true whereabouts on 11/24/71, or the witnesses were consulted and dismissed him as Cooper. Probably both. And this must have happened fairly quickly after his arrest. 

You have possibly a single witness that described Cooper as 'possibly Mexican-American'. Then the FBI says maybe they should go back and re-interview the witnesses. Maybe they did, but their wanted poster for him didn't change. They are still listing Cooper as Caucasian. 

The FBI could easily have put Hahneman on the plane. He pulled off his hijacking only six months or so AFTER Cooper. This is not like trying to match someone by witnesses years later. This is a few months later. A lineup, pictures of Hahneman shown to the witnesses, whose memories would be fresh and who were fully cooperating with the FBI. Either of those things would have done the job easily. The Cooper investigation was red hot at that time. They already had Hahneman in jail. And he didn't care if people recognized him or not...that was obvious from his interactions with the passengers. Everyone on board that aircraft he snatched got a good look at him and knew what the heck was going down. This is unlike Cooper, where most of the passengers didn't have a clue what was really happening. 

The idea that both Justice and the FBI were soooo dumb that they wouldn't be able to figure out Cooper and Hahneman were one and the same is just beyond belief. If he were Cooper, even if they weren't absolutely sure...they still would have brought him up for trial on the Cooper hijacking in order to solve both cases. They already had him dead to rights on the one he did. They could have just paraded in the Cooper witnesses and have them point to Hahneman. "Yes, that's the guy I saw on November 24," etc. And they would have...IF he were Cooper. This is not brain surgery, FJ. 

There is something else as well. The differences in demeanor and how each of those hijackings went down are strikingly different in nature. Cooper was well-mannered and polite, with a note of desperation here and there. Hahneman packed a gun and wasn't afraid to use it. All the passengers were scared out of their wits. He put a noose around the captain's neck as a safety measure when they switched planes. He forced the airline to bring him cartons of cigarettes as well as the money, and they weren't even the brand smoked by Cooper. The differences in their methods (Hahneman and Cooper) were like night and day. 

What about motivation? Who would be crazy enough to get away with one hijacking just a few months earlier, and then pull off another - much more violently - only a few months later. I've heard you say maybe that's because the money in the Cooper case was lost on the way down. But that doesn't explain how the money arrived at Tina Bar, which brings other problems when you start looking at Hahneman for the Cooper crime. 

You want to find out whether Hahneman and Cooper were one and the same guy? You need to see the FBI's files on Hahneman, and possibly the court transcripts from his trial. Your answers are in there as to why he was never charged for Cooper, or even mentioned in the Cooper files. In other words, the FBI and Justice know something that you don't know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Okay...I did read your entire post carefully. You keep saying you haven't found anything that eliminates Hahneman. 

Well...how about something in the nature of evidence that actually POINTS to him as a suspect in the Cooper hijacking then? And I don't mean what he did for a living, or what he looks like. I mean stuff like witness testimony, physical evidence, or at least being able to place a guy from Pennsylvania in the Great Northwest around the time of the hijacking? Something in this nature...anything. You can't even say whether Hahneman had a valid alibi for 11/24/1971. And you can bet your bottom dollar on two things. Number one:  You can bet that the FBI wondered if Hahneman was Cooper as well. Similar MO. Six months later. Number two:  They're going to see if he IS. And they do that first by seeing if he had an alibi for the time of the Cooper hijacking. What you are missing is a core of information about all that. For some reason unknown to either of us, Hahneman is never mentioned as a potential suspect for Cooper. Why? I already gave the most likely reasons...either they were easily able to establish his true whereabouts on 11/24/71, or the witnesses were consulted and dismissed him as Cooper. Probably both. And this must have happened fairly quickly after his arrest. 

You have possibly a single witness that described Cooper as 'possibly Mexican-American'. Then the FBI says maybe they should go back and re-interview the witnesses. Maybe they did, but their wanted poster for him didn't change. They are still listing Cooper as Caucasian. 

The FBI could easily have put Hahneman on the plane. He pulled off his hijacking only six months or so AFTER Cooper. This is not like trying to match someone by witnesses years later. This is a few months later. A lineup, pictures of Hahneman shown to the witnesses, whose memories would be fresh and who were fully cooperating with the FBI. Either of those things would have done the job easily. The Cooper investigation was red hot at that time. They already had Hahneman in jail. And he didn't care if people recognized him or not...that was obvious from his interactions with the passengers. Everyone on board that aircraft he snatched got a good look at him and knew what the heck was going down. This is unlike Cooper, where most of the passengers didn't have a clue what was really happening. 

The idea that both Justice and the FBI were soooo dumb that they wouldn't be able to figure out Cooper and Hahneman were one and the same is just beyond belief. If he were Cooper, even if they weren't absolutely sure...they still would have brought him up for trial on the Cooper hijacking in order to solve both cases. They already had him dead to rights on the one he did. They could have just paraded in the Cooper witnesses and have them point to Hahneman. "Yes, that's the guy I saw on November 24," etc. And they would have...IF he were Cooper. This is not brain surgery, FJ. 

There is something else as well. The differences in demeanor and how each of those hijackings went down are strikingly different in nature. Cooper was well-mannered and polite, with a note of desperation here and there. Hahneman packed a gun and wasn't afraid to use it. All the passengers were scared out of their wits. He put a noose around the captain's neck as a safety measure when they switched planes. He forced the airline to bring him cartons of cigarettes as well as the money, and they weren't even the brand smoked by Cooper. The differences in their methods (Hahneman and Cooper) were like night and day. 

What about motivation? Who would be crazy enough to get away with one hijacking just a few months earlier, and then pull off another - much more violently - only a few months later. I've heard you say maybe that's because the money in the Cooper case was lost on the way down. But that doesn't explain how the money arrived at Tina Bar, which brings other problems when you start looking at Hahneman for the Cooper crime. 

You want to find out whether Hahneman and Cooper were one and the same guy? You need to see the FBI's files on Hahneman, and possibly the court transcripts from his trial. Your answers are in there as to why he was never charged for Cooper, or even mentioned in the Cooper files. In other words, the FBI and Justice know something that you don't know. 

 

Robert, you are a joke,,

I stated many times that I have FBI files and Hahneman did NOT go to trial,,

You keep repeating stuff I already posted.. you are wasting my time.

If you want to eliminate Hahneman, go ahead. I am not here to think for you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any FBI files link Hahneman to the Cooper case?

Any of them establish any kind of alibi for him on 11/24/71? Or that he DIDN'T have an alibi for that date? What do you think US Marshals and the FBI were DOING after his arrest? They would have interviewed everybody he ever knew, and they almost certainly wondered if he might also be Cooper. But for some strange reason you haven't presented anything about post-arrest activities with the FBI regarding Hahneman. 

I don't need anyone to do my thinking for me...my points are simple logic, and some are based on the things I know that the FBI does when investigating a crime. Your view is that once they had him in custody, they just said: "Okay, we got our guy. There's nothing left to do." I know better, because that's not how they work. The Fed prosecutor will want information. He will want answers for the upcoming trial. He will get them. 

Hahneman was 'way out there on the edge' as far as the hijacking he pulled off. He is...because he was seen by SO many witnesses, and his case is well documented. His MO for his own hijacking was far different than Cooper's, except for the fact he asked for chutes and money, there is almost nothing similar about them. 

I don't understand...if you have all this evidence, and you have these files...why haven't you presented your case? 

What's the fear here? I have a fifty-plus page report out there on Kenny Christiansen and company, freely available for download. I stopped counting when the downloads went past 100,000. I named an FBI agent and put his picture out there as evidence. I gave names of witnesses, their pictures and addresses, even sometimes email addresses for verification. No one's tried to drop me off a cliff yet over it. B) I even published articles with pictures on different points. No one...and I mean NO ONE has ever done that in the Cooper case except me. Some have made half-hearted efforts, but no one took it to the wall and laid it out for the public as I did. (Some folks don't like that, of course.)

I even established a page at Quora dot com, the Q and A website, ABOUT the Cooper case. It has 2,000 followers and reaches a great many people. And none of you were smart enough to join. Not yet, anyway. Cooper posts there reached a million views some time ago, and total views to my Quora content, both Cooper and otherwise approach FOUR MILLION in three years. And people say no one listens to me. That's actually funny. 

And so far, except for a few slanted Peanut Gallery members, or a few folks who have much to lose if I were actually right on Christiansen...no one has disputed that report on KC very much. Or if they did object to it, they weren't able to 'break' the witnesses or prove I made anything up, such as when I documented the Troy Bentz/Agent John Jarvis incident. Or the testimony from Geestman's niece, or any number of other witnesses whose testimony I documented. And it wasn't like I didn't lay out the tools for them to do so...and still do. They just don't want to accept it. They don't want to know because it would put an end to all the Cooper discussions...and some of them LIVE for that. My answer is: Put up or shut up. Go to the sources I named and find out for yourself. But they are afraid to get serious on something like that. They've already invested years of personal attacks and negativity...can't admit you were wrong NOW, or that I might be right on a few things...or you will look like a fool. 

So yes, I understand where these people are coming from. It's a bit cowardly, but I understand why they do it. They come after me on a personal level sometimes, and use phony email addresses and identities to do so. Not all of them, but some. It hasn't slowed me down one bit, and it never will. I get a fair number of messages from legit folks, most of whom I've never heard of...and I answer every single message the best I can. I don't fart around, dodge, or go after people personally because I don't like what they have to say. THEY do that. THEY are the problem. THEY are the reason why the public will probably toss Cooper to the back burner after 2021. THEY (specifically Bruce) are the ones who lie about their experiences with me. There is no cooperation. There is only petty bickering, attempted exclusion, games, and finger-pointing, none of which the public gives a damn about. 

If you have Hahneman nailed to the wall for Cooper...why don't you at least present proof you went to the hardware store and picked up the nails? Hahneman did go trial. He simply pled guilty. You don't even know what's in the court record, or if he allocuted to the crime. Sometimes that's a requirement to get the plea deal, so you can't take back your guilty plea later. Even with his guilty plea, he still got life, and doing only 12 years on a life sentence is not unusual. The Manson Girls were eligible for parole after the first five years they did in jail. I have interviewed people who got out in less than 12 years on a life sentence for shooting someone in the head from point blank range. (Terry Lee Hoff) And other hijackers were released in less than 12 years as well. They were actually kind of tough on Hahneman. Probably because he used a gun, threatened a few people with it, and put the FBI and the airline to more trouble than Cooper did. 

I've said it before, but for you to know for sure if Hahneman's your guy, you need to see why the FBI obviously wrote him off for Cooper. You don't know why. Neither do I. But you're the one trying to prove the case on him. It could be something as simple as they were able to establish he was at Point X on 11/24/71, and could not have been at Point Y (the Northwest) on the same date. You need to see the FBI record on Hahneman somehow. It should be available FOIA. 

 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your points are BS,,, you are just throwing out assumptions and strawman fallacies from ignorance.

I have no interest in getting bogged down in correcting you, over and over. It is nauseating.. How many times did I have to repeat that I have the files 5 or 6? I am not writing a book and don't want to discuss the massive amount of research I have with uninformed people. 

There is no upside.. 

Hahneman is the best Cooper suspect by a long shot, I have been trying to put him on the plane but that may be impossible for any suspect without access to Cooper's DNA.

 

You can't even admit Cooper was described as Latin/Mexican in appearance and features... you do need somebody to think for you.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You aren't getting bogged down by me. You are unable to answer very simple questions. This has nothing to do with writing a book. 

You expect people to swallow the idea that the same guy who pulled off the Cooper crime, using a very different means and manner than Cooper did...just six short months later...was Hahneman. A guy who is a known quantity. There is no mystery about him. He was seen by multiple witnesses, threatened some of them, and even used a rope noose on the pilot during a jet transfer. He was arrested and jailed for a dozen years by the Feds. 

And you expect people to believe the Feds wouldn't have figured out he was Cooper in those twelve years they had him behind bars? They had his life history, his prints, his pictures, and probably a boatload of interview files post-hijacking to boot. They could call him from his cell anytime they wished for a lineup, although it probably didn't have to get that far. They almost certainly established his alibi, realized he was just a Cooper copycat who got caught, and moved on. 

It's patently ridiculous that you can't even place the guy on 11/24/71 or even establish an alibi for him. The current Cooper files have everybody and his brother being pointed to in there as a Cooper suspect. Yet there is not a single mention of Hahneman in any of them over the dates that matter. (72-84) Don't you think that's a bit telling? He SHOULD be in there, even if its just a brief comment saying that some investigation on his recent arrest should be done to see if there was any connection between him and Cooper. Yet there is zero, nada, negative, nothing, and not happening. 

Why is that? The only answer is that the FBI and Justice must have established almost right away that he wasn't Cooper, my friend. Otherwise he would be in there somewhere. Someone, someWHERE figured out pretty damn quick he couldn't have been Cooper. Most likely...they were able to discover where he was on 11/24/71 and very fast. Probably a work record, or testimony from a boss. Maybe he was in Pennsylvania for Thanksgiving and multiple witnesses testified to that. You don't know, but someone figured it out. 

The FBI knows something about Hahneman that you don't. Otherwise they wouldn't have continued spending all that time, effort, and money continuing the search for Cooper for another forty plus years. If they even had a whiff of a suspicion Hahneman had pulled off BOTH hijackings, he would in the FBI Cooper files for an entire released section. Maybe more than one. And you have to believe they thought of that possibility right away...unless you think the FBI was totally dumb. At least while Hahneman was still on the plane he hijacked...they had to have wondered if it was Cooper striking again. 

But for some reason they wrote him off immediately and he isn't even mentioned. You should find out why he isn't. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are completely clueless.. your comment is ignorant baseless nonsense. Your claims are just made up and false.

It isn't that I am unable to answer simple questions, I choose not to get into the details of my research with ignorant people. 

I have thousands of pieces of info on Hahneman, it would be a massive undertaking to explain it all properly... and I am just not interested.

If you (or others) want to reject Hahneman based on assumptions and from a position of ignorance that is your problem. In fact, I prefer it that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You are completely clueless.. your comment is ignorant baseless nonsense. Your claims are just made up and false.

It isn't that I am unable to answer simple questions, I choose not to get into the details of my research with ignorant people. 

I have thousands of pieces of info on Hahneman, it would be a massive undertaking to explain it all properly... and I am just not interested.

If you (or others) want to reject Hahneman based on assumptions and from a position of ignorance that is your problem. In fact, I prefer it that way.

I'm not rejecting Hahneman necessarily. I'm just asking why you think the FBI and Justice didn't think of Hahneman first thing, when they heard he had hijacked that jet and wanted chutes and money. 

"Oh, brother," says one FBI case agent, when the news comes in they have another hijacking. "Here we go again. I wonder if our friend Cooper is back..."

Special-Agent-in-Charge: "I don't know. But find out. How much money does he want?"

For some reason, Hahneman doesn't even get a mention in thousands of pages of Cooper files. He really should have, but something happened that negated any reason to place him into those files. My guess is that agents figured out pretty quick Cooper and Hahneman were not the same person. 

Probably not right away, not during the hijacking itself. But fairly soon afterward. Once they had Hahneman's true identity established, it wouldn't take them long to find out everything about him, including what part of the turkey he liked at Thanksgiving. 

You want to make Cooper into a guy whose whole history was investigated by the FBI for a capital crime. You'll need more than just he might be Latin or of Mexican descent. Or that the tie may contain a material associated with certain jobs. There isn't even a chain of evidence on the tie itself. No one knows where Cooper got it. 

And because you are working with a suspect who was convicted and jailed for a similar hijacking only a few months after Cooper, your burden of proof should be much easier. But you haven't even come up with the basics that any simple beat cop would have tried to answer about a suspect being accused of a crime. Neither do the known personalities of Hahneman and Cooper come even remotely close to matching. Their MO's, their behaviors during their crimes are not even in the same universe. On the one hand, you have Cooper chatting up the stewardess while she lights his cigarettes, and they wait for the money and the chutes. Always polite, always nice. 

On the other hand, you have a guy like Hahneman, angry, waving a gun around and threatening to shoot people. Sticking a noose around the pilot's neck to keep him in control. They do NOT sound like the same person. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

19 19