DB Cooper

[georger 197]

Quote

It's been mentioned before... the finders of the Cooper Ca$h could very well have found more than they told the authorities (I'M NOT SAYING THEY DID, JUST SAYING IT'S POSSIBLE) including the bag and more (less damaged cash). Also, we are dealing with a time prior to cell phones, so there was obviously a time lapse between the discovery, notifying authorities and the search at Tena's Bar. It is doubtful that the find location was secure until the FBI got there. Since we are in speculation mode, it won't hurt to think about this possibility...

REPLY: ... very good thought and someone could have
been there earlier, first.

There is nothing in my area that matches the majesty of the Columbia. This is a very powerful very dynamic river - of note is the Willamette which flows in just south of the Vancouver Island area. I read today that
extra fine grain silts from the Willamette are distinctive
and make their way across the current of the Columbia into Vancouver Lake, as distinct from the larger grain silts of the Columbia itself. The perimeter of Vancouver Lake was dredged in 82-83 and the silts used to make the island. It is a reacreation area with very strong lobbies watching over it, managing it. Given the strong forces of the Columbia I am amazed the money was found at all. So this area NW of Vancouver Lake must be a huge despository for all kinds of things. Locals must prowl there often and would know the history well.

I can see why Ckret wants a hydrologist.

I can see why Tosaw was drawn to the area too.
Its a natural funnel and deposition area after the sharp bend of the Columbia.

Its not too far from this area that record of some of the earliest humans in Noth America was found dating
back 9000 years.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

It's been mentioned before... the finders of the Cooper Ca$h could very well have found more than they told the authorities (I'M NOT SAYING THEY DID, JUST SAYING IT'S POSSIBLE) including the bag and more (less damaged cash). Also, we are dealing with a time prior to cell phones, so there was obviously a time lapse between the discovery, notifying authorities and the search at Tena's Bar. It is doubtful that the find location was secure until the FBI got there. Since we are in speculation mode, it won't hurt to think about this possibility...

The obvious thing? If they were going to keep most of the money, they would have kept all. They wouldn't have reported any of it. What would be the point of declaring that they found some?

Tenas Bar was an eddy spot where the river widened a little. It is like most eddy points, whatever is floating by, will pause there. It makes sense.

[377 20]

Judging by how much a ragged piece of a Cooper $20 brought at auction, if they concealed and spent extra found money they must be kicking themselves now.

If the find story is true, it is one of the most remarkable needle in a haystack stories I have ever heard. What are the odds?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Everything is going right back to where we started when Ckret came to the forum.


The money landing in the Columbia and arriving at Tena's bar does not wash with any of Ckret's "theory" - the money that was found had been protected and not in the water for 7 yrs - the evidence has supported this.

FACT: I will put my life on the line to prove everything I have said about Duane:

The money that was found was thrown there from the RED LION and it was thrown in a container that allowed it to arrive at Tena's bar intact. He stood there and watched it float down the river.

I witnessed the paper bag floating, but do not know what was in it or how the money was secured inside of the bag.

He had retrieved the money prior and already knew it was worthless.The money he threw into the river had damage from the site he had buried it in and retrieve it from.

Considering the money and the DZ - Cooper survived. No animal or tributary can explain the money on Tena's bar. Nothing about the DZ supports Cooper landing in the Columbia.

Both of those things say that the FBI was way off in 1971 and is way out in 2008. Hopefully my trip to WA in Oct will help shed some light on all of this. I plan to be there the later part of Oct.

Anyone wanting to join the hunt is welcome - but no recorders or fiming. I do not want someone like CKRET or Galen Cook there because I want to feel like I am with friends who are willing to help. Hopefully I will be able to pinpoint some of the places and have found out who owned the properties in 1971 and 1979.

Also to question the current landowners about anything unusual they may have come across. I am hoping to retrace his route as closely as possible. The only thing I have to guess at is where he landed N. or W. of the tracks.

Since I do not want the media there I will have to rely on individuals who live in the area to help me and not give away why we are there.

I am not sure that the individual who intends to help me will be much help - he maybe more interested in writing a book or someone paid by Cook to distract me. So I might show up in Wa prior to the end of OCT.

I need access to records and land. I need someone who knows the land and the land owners and the area from 1971 to current date.
I need an old timer and hopefully one who knows something about skydiving.

I have to wait until the heat gets down lower - as I have to stay cool or I am in distress physically. Day time temps must not exceed 75 degrees. Also may need access to various types of transportations in any area that might not have been developed. I believe that 85% of what I will be looking at has been developed since 1979.

It may be a futile trip, but I am going to give it all I have. Every composite needs to be made public and shown to the witnesses - there are only 2 left now. I will not leave until I have had a face to face with Tina - in private. Hopefully she will grant me this time - but, I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Before I leave the media will be running all composites and all photos of Duane I can find and pictures of the other suspects. If I have to pay for a full page - so be it. This will run the last day of my trip...in order to be able to do what I must do.

At least I will be doing something to jog whatever memories any witness still living might have. I am sure it will also shake some nuts off the trees. but that is to be expected. Of course there are those who would believe me to be the biggest nut of all.

Seems the FBI is telling CKRET to side step and this means going back to exactly where he was when he came onto this forum. We are back at square one now with Ckret and the FBI, except we have a lot information to work with we never had before.

How many of you want to join me in Wa. in Oct.? Lets put an end to all of this - no naysayers - only people who believe Cooper made it and want to help me prove it.

If you believe Cooper died - you are welcome, but do not distract those of us who are searching. We will not be there to debate Cooper's survival, but to find out how he made it and how the money got in the water.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Judging by how much a ragged piece of a Cooper $20 brought at auction, if they concealed and spent extra found money they must be kicking themselves now.

If the find story is true, it is one of the most remarkable needle in a haystack stories I have ever heard. What are the odds?

377

In Florida, the sides of a lot of rivers/creeks are covered with foliage. At the bend in a river, there are little spits of land that pop up where the current stacks up sand (and whatever moves - a bag of money would be easy).

Those little pieces of sand are favorite boat docking spots. People with kids will land boats and let their kids play and dig. Because of this, it doesn't surprise me.

We have "barrier islands" caused by hundreds of feet of sand moves around by current. After a storm, divers find old .50 cal casings, mortars, and bombs.
It's pretty common.

[377 20]

Hmmm, now that tells me something I didn't know... that these types of river sandbars are natural aggregators for flotsam. So maybe now the odds are one in a million rather than one in a trillion. Still pretty remarkable, but perhaps not as far out as I originally thought.

Sharing real life experiences can add a lot towards figuring out all these Cooper things. Like jet jumpers telling their exit stories, we'd just be guessing and theorizing otherwise.

Thanks Happythoughts.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Erroll 49]

Quote

... I am sure it will also shake some nuts off the trees....

So, you're thinking that Cooper did land in the trees, but he didn't close his legs?


How long do nuts float for, I wonder.....?

[georger 197]

Quote

Hmmm, now that tells me something I didn't know... that these types of river sandbars are natural aggregators for flotsam. So maybe now the odds are one in a million rather than one in a trillion. Still pretty remarkable, but perhaps not as far out as I originally thought.

reply: From what Ive seen of Ckret here, I think this is
his department - he's pretty good at putting things
together based on cause & effect and odds and he has
the working file of information.

I have an idea, but a hydrologist familiar with this area
and its history could reduce this problem very quickly.
I would venture it is 1 in several thousand or less, or the money would never have been found at all.

Ckret has finally convinced me, from his experience,
that simpler is better and seems to work. One of a
small number of scenarios got the money to T Bar
by one of a few routine flow routes probably involving
the whole bag.

Keep in mind, none of us knows what this area of the
Columbia looked like in 1972-1980. In general probably like it is today. We could all guess what this area looks like in flood with slower water to the right side (Vancouver side) of the main channel, but I would like to find a 70's map of this area of the river and am searching for that.

No doubt in the meantime Ckret (and Sluggo) have
found the missing link!

In the meantime Im working on a larger scale
topographic map that might come in handy - will
post that asap.

Thanks 377.

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Ckret has finally convinced me, from his experience,
that simpler is better and seems to work. One of a
small number of scenarios got the money to T Bar
by one of a few routine flow routes probably involving
the whole bag.

How can you possibly say such a thing - there are NO tributaries that can put the money in the Columbia from the proposed DZ. Go do your research - there are none. This has been searched and researched - tell me one tributary that flows from the DZ to the Columbia.
--------------------------------------

Quote

Keep in mind, none of us knows what this area of the
Columbia looked like in 1972-1980.

I do - I was there in 1979 - not at Tena's bar but above that. I have also seen many photos of the area. I was at Tena's bar in 2001.
I haven't compared the 1979 map with a 2001 to see what the difference was in those yrs. Don't for get the GREAT flood that happened in the 70's before the find - factor that in.

Perhaps someone should post pictures of the Columbia from that Flood and talk about any damages to homes on the shore line. I know of one home I was told was not there or torn-down after the Flood. A place that Duane took me to just East of Winterly Park almost directly across from the Portland Airport.

I have never been able to find out who owned that property.
----------------------------------------

Quote

In the meantime Im working on a larger scale topographic map that might come in handy

-

I have a large topographic map dated 1979 - how is that for being dead on with the money find...only a few months later in Feb of 1980. Also what would be more important to compare with this 1979 map would be a 1971 map. I am sure I can get a copy of this 1979 map made some place - such as a surveyor or architect. Measure about 3 ft by 2 ft.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

Jo,

Why do you focus on land ownership so much? Is it because you will seek permission to cross private land or do you suspect Duane was assisted by some landowner or ?

You seem pretty energetic in your recent posts. I hope that indicates an upturn in health.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Ckret 0]

When I talked to Brian he said the money was found in an area he could tell at some recent point had been covered by water. He said all of the debris was swept into one area, which is where he found the money.

[377 20]

Is this consistent with choosing a spot to build a fire? Wouldn't you want to build it away from all the debris that had been swept into that area? I know I am being paranoid, but the money find has always been suspicious to me. I look at every detail with a skeptical eye. No worries, I have taken my Lithium and Haldol today and can acknowledge the real possibility that it occurred exactly as reported.

Who among us can explain how the bag got from the flight path, including throw and wind drift, to Tena bar? Is Jo correct in saying that there is no natural water transport path that could account for it?

I don't know much about river hydrology, but I do know that ocean current eddys collect floating trash quite effectively. I fished tuna commercially between Midway Island and Japan. We would occasionally run across vast floating trash dumps formed in current eddys. Sometimes you'd get lucky and find a LOT of Japanese glass net float balls in the midst. You'd also find a zillion pieces of carelessly discarded trash, and sometimes dead birds entangled in it. Never any money though.

You could go for hundreds of miles and see zero floating debris then you'd come across one of these aggregated trash areas and see literally tons of floating junk. Some of it had been floating for a long long time judging by the accumulation of barnacles. Big barely afloat logs made these areas hazardous to navigation.

Maybe there was a lot of driftwood on the area of Tena bar where the money was found and that would explain why the spot was chosen to build a fire.

Can't wait for Sluggo's return, and where is Snowmman? Has he returned from blowing up that North Korean nuke enrichment plant cooling tower?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Who among us can explain how the bag got from the flight path, including throw and wind drift, to Tena bar? Is Jo correct in saying that there is no natural water transport path that could account for it?

Maybe there was a lot of driftwood on the area of Tena bar where the money was found and that would explain why the spot was chosen to build a fire.

I have only left the two paragraphs I am going to try to address.

Set the stage:
1. 1979 My trip with Duane
2. 1980 When the money was found.
3. 1980 Picture of the area with Himmelsbach in His book
4. 2001 My attempt to reconstruct my trip in 1979...the TV crew decided the location - their "guide" a college student who had only been in the area for 2 or 3 yrs.

These are from observations I made in 2001 and considering what I experienced in 1979. None of what I will say is technical, but from life experiences (a large portion of my life was spent on the rivers in Ky.) Some of my family lived on these rivers.

In 2001 I was taken to Tena's bar.
At that time there were still large trees near but a few yards (about 15 yrds max) from the water. A farm house was near by which was fenced from the public area (or private area used by the public). This was an older home and I believe that someone said it was the same farm house as was there in 1980...but do not know the actual age of the house...if it pre dates 1971 - then it was not devastated by a flood.

These trees where mature trees in 2001 so there was debris from those trees. The pictures from 1980 show only scrub trees and a much steeper bank ( per the picture of Himmelsbach and the digging crews in 1980 in his book).

Himmelsbach was with us in 2001 - so you can be quaranteed that the location was dead on. He showed them about where the money was found and they wanted me to lean down and pretend to be searching.

I refused because this was NOT the spot that Duane had taken me to in 1979. I walked away from the cameras. The crew and Himmelsbach filmed the area.

You could look East along the river banks to where the trees where closer to the shore line - Someone (I believed Himmelsbach) explained that was more the way Tena's bar looked in 1980 at the time of the find. The trees to the east where not as old and as large as the trees at Tena's bar.

If Tena's bar looked like the East area looked then it would have caught things coming around the bend of the river (the river did curve above Tena's bar in 2001). This left Tena's bar protected in 2001. I wish I had taken a camera and took my own pictures.

I know these areas flooded but do not know the yrs. One flood after Cooper jumped wash away and damaged homes in the area. A local needs to pull the history on flood levels and damages from 1971 to 1979.

Safecrack was the water flow expert and if you go back to his pics and posts - unless he made an error there is NO tributary that flows into the Columbia from the DZ unless you go all the way to Washougal and the LaCames.

The LaCames dam structure would have prevent the money going into the Columbia. The Washougal is way off course and the movement of the river (it is rocky and rapid) would have torn the bag to pieces. Remember my washing the material I thought was like the bag just to make it softer - it raveled and shredded.

I bought more and hemmed the edges. Washing it with towels and garden clothes for a few wks - it too shredded (I did rough it up on the driveway and with a rock). This was duck cloth - which is about as close as I can get to the texture of the bag I saw in the van.

There is no way that bag came down the Washougal intact or thru the tributary that feeds LaCames then it has to come thru the dam.

From the point that Duane threw the paper sack into the Columbia from the bank of the river at the Red Lion. There is a bridge at that point that crosses over into Portland. I asked what he was doing and he said watching something going down the river. It was the paper sack - he had not put it in the trash. From that point the bag due to currents would have washed by against the shoreline down the river and have been caught up in debri and buried. I do not know how the money was packaged inside of the bag - the bag was about 8 inches wide and it was closed with the top fairly secure - thick paper sacking not the thin stuff we see so much of today.

I believe he expected it to sink to the bottom of the Columbian and be long gone - instead it was found on the beach about 7 months later.

When the news came out about the money he is the one who told me it was worthless and he had not seen the paper or the news --- I told him what I was reading on the front page. The next day he turns in a letter of resignation to be effective as soon as possible. Does not anyone find that ODD.
Two wks later there is a special on TV with America's most Wanted and he aranges for us to go out to a bar on a work night. He did not want me to see that special - he was afraid I would put it all together. The bag and the things he said and did on that trip only 7 months prior...he would never be able to run again and hide -he would spend the REST of his LIFE in prison and he had to get out of the WEST... back to the East where he quietly blended away. He was paranoid from 1979 to 1990 - aways suspicious about anyone he didn't know - such as the man who was a private detective who came into the shop. He did not shed that mustach and full head of hair until the very last part of his life.

This man knew my principles and he knew I would turn him in - and if I had figured it out who knows what he might have done?

I do not really know what I would have done at that time had I known ---------. I believe I would have been afraid of him...and I do not know how that would have made me react.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo,

Why do you focus on land ownership so much? Is it because you will seek permission to cross private land or do you suspect Duane was assisted by some landowner or ?

You seem pretty energetic in your recent posts. I hope that indicates an upturn in health.

377

Yes - I am feeling better, but because I know there are things I have to do and I have to push to finish this. I still have very bad days.

Yes - I am focused on landownership because there is a strong possiblility that the cabin and other places he pointed out may have been owned by someone he knew (and hope that at one time he mentioned the name).

I am focused on the LaCames area - there was a man there in 1971 who was a caretaker and I need to know who that man was and what his history was - was he an excon, instructor, jumper, ex-military, etc. The more yrs that go by the less likely I am to get those answers - I think the history and name of this man is very very very important in solving the puzzle.

ATTENTION FBI: This man worked for the Ledbetters 1971. He lived in a building near the old mansion. He knew Duane and Duane knew him.

I have never spelled this out for the FBI but maybe they need someone to do this...I told them about it before and no one ever did anything about it. This IS NOT the area Duane landed in. Please do not confuse the issues.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

I don't know much about river hydrology, but I do know that ocean current eddys collect floating trash quite effectively. I fished tuna commercially between Midway Island and Japan. We would occasionally run across vast floating trash dumps formed in current eddys. Sometimes you'd get lucky and find a LOT of Japanese glass net float balls in the midst. You'd also find a zillion pieces of carelessly discarded trash, and sometimes dead birds entangled in it. Never any money though.

REPLY: A hydrologist who knows the area of Tina Bar
back to Washougal will be able to speak to these issues specifically. I find this very interesting.

Once the flow issues are settled then it will become
rather obvious how the money got to T Bar and the
conditions that had to be satisfied to get it there.

This is a very nice problem.

I have already talked to several people about this.
Couldnt resist. Our problem here is nobody is
familair with this area of the Columbia, but general
principles do apply.

When 'Brian' says the area looked recently wet, you
can bet it was "wet". Wet in a big way. If only that
money could talk - what a story it would tell!

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,

I have access to a lot of maps. I have mentioned previously, if you need a map, let me know. I’m not sure I fully understand the “map discussion,” that has taken place while I’m “on vacation,” but I have the following large-scale maps (in addition to the 7.5 minute maps already on my web site).

Vancouver, Washington, Oregon 1 : 250,000
NL 10-8, V502, Edition 4 [9,246 Kbytes]
Prepared by the US Army Topographic Command (KCVD) Washington, DC. Compiled in 1958 by photometric methods and from United States quadrangles, 1:24,000, 1:48,000, 1:50:000, and 1:62,500, 1939-54; NOS Charts 5092,6112, and 6115, 1953; 6112, 1952. Planimetry revised, in part, from aerial photographs taken 1954-55. Map field checked 1958. Revised in 1974 by the US Geological Survey from aerial photographs taken 1973.

Vancouver, Washington, Oregon 1 : 100,000 scale metric
45122-E1-TM-1000 [12,045 Kbytes]
30 x 60 Minute Series (Topographic)
Compiled from USGS 1:24,000 and 1:62,500 scale topographic maps dated 1953 - 1978. Planimetry revised from aerial photographs taken 1975 and other source data. Revised information not field checked.

Each of these maps offer different strengths and weaknesses. I think the map Jo described has to be one of them. With the free GeoPDF Toolbar from Adobe, the PDF maps are very useful for "What we do."

If anyone is interested, I will put them on my web site for download in both PDF and JPEG formats. The PDF file sizes are shown. The JPEG file sizes will be dependent on how much resolution you want.

Just let me know.

Sluggo_Monster

PS: Having a ball with “the Kid.”

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Vancouver, Washington, Oregon 1 : 100,000 scale metric
45122-E1-TM-1000 [12,045 Kbytes]
30 x 60 Minute Series (Topographic)
Compiled from USGS 1:24,000 and 1:62,500 scale topographic maps dated 1953 - 1978. Planimetry revised from aerial photographs taken 1975 and other source data. Revised information not field checked.

I believe this is the map I am working with. It is a black and white copy mailed to me several yrs ago when I was trying to tell someone about the pipelines and the power lines.

This was the reason it was sent to me - so I could make some sense of what he showed me and told me - when I got this map it was ALL right there.

Absolutely no mistake at to where he took me and what he said - it was all there! This happened when I was in another forum, but I honestly do not remember who sent it to me.

This map was sent by some kind soul who saw and read my plight and trying to tell what was there, but with nothing but a small map in an atlas and an old NorthWest Map which was very old (showed several states) on one side and on the reverse side the SouthWest - I lost that in CA. a few yrs ago and do truely regret the loss of that map... and was in Duane's things. It was an easy to read map by I think Gousha or something like that. We had used that N.W. map in our travels thru out the prior 2 yrs and for all of the yrs afterward...yet I carried it to CA in 2004 and left in the room.

I have been provided with other maps but that one gave me the whole picture of our entire trip - and was in the car at the time we went out there in 1979.

We also had an atlas in the car. I got rid of when I sold the van - it was falling apart. Since the map we had of the N.W and S.W was not detailed for the area, I referred to the atlas the one time I looked at a map when we were in WA in 1979. This is when he said from hwy 17 -" I think I missed my turn" - but found the turn just as I located it on the map. I now know that where we turned was NOT where I was looking on the map.

I doubt that any of this means one iota to 99.99% of you, but I am just relating the process of my discovery and research. Everything I have said from get go is backed up later by maps and actually going back and finding the places.

You know I was considered average to slightly above average growing up - but there is NO concievable way I could connoct a story with the details I had in my mind from where he took and and what he showed me and then correlate them with actual places by maps and then when I went back in 2001. Twice in my life I have been to OR and WA and I was not behind the wheel on either of those trips.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Tenas Bar was an eddy spot where the river widened a little. It is like most eddy points, whatever is floating by, will pause there. It makes sense.

[georger 197]

A good hi res map of the Columbia from Washougal
out beyond Tina Bar with frontage both sides of the
river ... would e nice. I will go to your website and see
what's there.
Thanks.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Look where Tina Bar sits.

The map or site is only as good as the person putting it there - it is not a real dictionary or encyclopedia.

The arrow is to high for "Tena's" bar on that map. You have it at the upper end of Vancouver Lake when it is down toward the lower end of that lake. I don't have a map of it handy, but you will find that the arrow on that map is too High and too far North.

The area was part of the Fazio farm and the only river that flows North into the Columbia is the Washougal - that would allow the money to be deposited at the Fazio farm.

Although the Fazio property "Tena's Bar" is only a few feet above sea level - rarely - maybe once or twice a yr. does the river rise to the level where the money was found,

The farmers used the beach in their farming -which included moving cattle and they claimed that hundreds of people came there for recreational activities. It was the opinion of these long time owners and farmers that IF the money had been there for very long even under a layer of sand that someone would have found it.

My father was a farmer - and he knew his land - these 4 brothers knew their land - I will take the word of these long time farmers of that land before that of any hydrologist.

The local fishermen also where of the opinion that the money had come down the river from somewhere upstream. They also felt and were in agreement that the money may have been deposited on the beach with the melting snow about 2 wks before (this caused the river to rise) and left the money there covered by a layer of silt.

Fishermen and Farmers - good indicators and they knew their land and their waters. Also it has never been explained how the three packets were able to stay together after they separated from the sack if indeed the money bag itself did land in the Columbia.

The DZ (per todays' technology) makes the money landing in the Columbia highly improbable. Writers and seekers of Cooper and his money have for 36 yrs moved the DZ to fit their whims or theories. Now it is time to look at FACTS.

The DZ and the money in the Columbia and the conditions under which it was found do not fit together like a puzzle piece. That is because they occurred 6 yrs apart. Not one of the theories can explain how three packets arrive together - except what I have been trying to tell the FBI and others since May 24 1996 - for over 12 yrs.

Quote

this whole area is under water during floods so very likely the money was not "put up on Tina Bar", but was left there as water levels dropped in the whole area as a flood subsided. There is no eddy at Tina Bar. It is open river channel right off of Tina Bar .....

I believe the statements I made explain that the only chances of such a deposit being made...these statements where not made by me but by fishermen and farmers in 1980..

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BigSky 2]

How many of you want to join me in Wa. in Oct.? Lets put an end to all of this - no naysayers - only people who believe Cooper made it and want to help me prove it.


Im in.

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[georger 197]

What file size and type are we limted to here?

200K ?

Thanks, George

[georger 197]

I feel there is signfiicant misinformation about Tina's
Bar (as the sign on the gate actually reads). To help
clear this up Im posting some photos and maps. The
maps give context to where T Bar sits and its realtionship
to the rest of the (incoming) Columbia.

What I am posting is but a section of a much larger
hi-res Terrain map I have constructed for the whole
area from east beyond Washougal, encompassing Battle Grnd, to south below the Columbia, and east beyond the Columbia NW of Vancouver. Unfortunately my FITS is 546mb large, a bmp 30+ mb, a jpeg 1.2mb, so what Im going to post here are reduced sections from the Terrain map. These provide context
for Tina Bar. (anyone wishing the larger files may email me and we will make arrangements).

Hopfully I can get these uploaded here -

George

[skyjack71 0]

Post the dates of each map and the compilation dates - this is important.

Also - WHERE did you find some of those pics. I still think Tena's bar is lower than mark on the map.

Tena's bar is in red so that looks like a mark made on the map and not published with the map.

There was a farm house there .
Also the one that shows the actual dig - the beach was MUCH wider in 2001...so the beach "grew" from 1980 to 2001. Would be nice to over-lay pics from 1980 to 2001.

I am only seeing a farm house on the lower side of Vancouver Lake, but it could be gone now.

Help Help we need some local yokels from WA on this now.

Also does anyone anything about know what appears to be a canal from Vancover lake to the Columbia. Was that there in 1979?

Please we need someone from WA to verify the location of Tena's bar - not maps that have been used to attempt various claims. We need to know EXACTLY where it is.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Quote

Post the dates of each map and the compilation dates - this is important.

Also - WHERE did you find some of those pics. I still think Tena's bar is lower than mark on the map.

Tena's bar is in red so that looks like a mark made on the map and not published with the map.

There was a farm house there .
Also the one that shows the actual dig - the beach was MUCH wider in 2001...so the beach "grew" from 1980 to 2001. Would be nice to over-lay pics from 1980 to 2001.

I am only seeing a farm house on the lower side of Vancouver Lake, but it could be gone now.

Help Help we need some local yokels from WA on this now.

Also does anyone anything about know what appears to be a canal from Vancover lake to the Columbia. Was that there in 1979?

Please we need someone from WA to verify the location of Tena's bar - not maps that have been used to attempt various claims. We need to know EXACTLY where it is.

REPLY:
Jo, I agree, this is important. I could write a book about the hours I have spent on this piece of trivia alone.

To make a very long story short, visit this link which
identifies Tina Bar.
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM34G6

Tina Bar is at: 45*43'2.88N latitude & 122*45'34.55"
West longitude. So says the Waymark website on Tina Bar. (Sluggo posts the same information)

The Google map from the Waymark wbesite is attached. A Mapquest map called from coordinates is attached. An finally the erroneous Seattle Post
"Intelligencer" map showing Tina Bar in a different
location is attached - which got all this confusion started in the first place.

The Seattle PI would never answer any email on this subject.

If it ever turns out the Seattle's PI's map is correct
and the Waymark coordinates are wrong, well then
we are all in trouble.

I agree. The accuracy of the location is importante'.
Because its the difference between one set of flow and
feed point parameters vs another -

I hope this helps -
George