Mr.Nuke 0
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377 20
QuoteActually a movie would be really good period based and based on what is actually known. Add some drama with FBI talking and arguing during the crisis, the helicopter taking off, a heated conversation about the rig at the DZ... The end could be Cooper walking down the stairs wearing his rig, walking off into the darkness. Fade to black then credits.
Naah, that "disappearing into the night sky" ending is too easy. We all want to know what happened after the stair exit? Splat or $Phat$
Who filmed the skydiving sequences in Point Break? Norm Kent? Anyhow, you could have the same guy film a really great night jump scene. You could then have it enhanced with all the special effects they have now.
There was some action movie where a big Sikorsky helo (USAF Jolly Green?) drags a stuntman dressed as the movie hero on a line and lowers him onto a 747 in flight, right behind the upper deck hump. As I understand it the scene was real, not a special effects fake. Snowman, bet you can find the video. It shows that a turbine helo and jet transport can match speeds.
We could spin the truth a bit and have Agent H actually getting the 727 in sight flying in a USAF helo without lights positioned above just behind and off to one side in Cooper's blind spot. He sees Cooper take a tenative step down. Is he just looking or is he ready to exit...then, clouds suddenly intervene and H maddeningly loses visual contact. He doesnt know if Cooper has jumped or is still aboard. Keep trailing or turn back and search? High tension music and H's anguish.
What drives me nuts is the Tena Bar find. How do we write that into the script. I am eager to hear Galen Cook's story on this aspect of the case. it had better be good.
Weber, Mayfield, McCoy... they can all have a role in the story as suspects. You don't know until the end who Cooper really is.
Ckret's role is great for box office appeal because it can get in the Internet angle. We should probably have some genius kid solve it, that's how Hollywood resolves Internet based mysteries. Hey, how do we know the real ages of Sluggo and Snowman. I want to see if they post during school hours once summer is over. Snowman...hmmm... the Falcon and the Snowman... is he telling us something?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Quote
In Kauai they don't use nails. They just chant and seek the assent of the 2x10s to bond in peaceful harmony. Just in case the spirits aren't willing, they notch, dowel, mortise, tie, glue or whatever... but no nailguns. No no no. That is wood murder and the Kharmic consequences are serious.
Some people recommend screws over nails, but hardened screws are not as yielding (long term) as common nails. I use polyurethane glue first. Quite messy. Get it on your hands and the only way to get it off (if it dries) is abrasion. Get it in your hair, and well, you wait.
Actually I'm a bit of a wuss. Mostly use a palm nailer, except the brad nailer for molding.
The real problem with sistering up against old wood is that the old wood has shrunk, so it's dimensions are less than the new wood. Worth the extra money to buy kiln-dried 2x10's (which are smaller). But actually not common, mostly green wood sold nowadays.
A sledge hammer is your friend when sistering joists. That and some screw jacks and nice wood clamps.
There you go. Now we all can go and do honest labor.
snowmman 3
Quote
Snowman...hmmm... the Falcon and the Snowman... is he telling us something?
post 1087 of the old thread. From skyjack71. Before I arrived here. I just found it and smiled at the coincidence.
"Before we hit I-5 he pointed down a road and told me about a tavern at Dollars Corner and that he knew a man there. I went to Dollar Corner in 2001 and asked a lot of questions. One man (named Snow) pulled me aside and gave me the directions and the a man I was to find. He claimed to have remembered the man in the picture I showed and that he used to get up and sing with the band...and that this other man was a hermit type but that he knew him....the crew and I never found the man and they had a schedule. I also did not have time to go back on my own with the ladies (one was an undercover Narco off-duty doing this as a favor)."
377 20
Thanks for the carpentry lesson Snowman. Is the term "sistering" common in house carpentry?
I grew up in commercial fishing. My Dad put some "sister ribs" in our old boat to strengthen some original ribs which had rotted at the sites of the hull planking nails. He used nails and glue on the sister ribs just like you, then renailed the planks into the sister ribs. A little caulking and it was shipshape or "Skookum" as the Seattle guys called it.
Didn't Snowman hide out on a NW salmon troller in real life when he was on the run from the FBI in that spy satellite espionage case?
I explained 377. How about explaining Snowman?
I grew up in commercial fishing. My Dad put some "sister ribs" in our old boat to strengthen some original ribs which had rotted at the sites of the hull planking nails. He used nails and glue on the sister ribs just like you, then renailed the planks into the sister ribs. A little caulking and it was shipshape or "Skookum" as the Seattle guys called it.
Didn't Snowman hide out on a NW salmon troller in real life when he was on the run from the FBI in that spy satellite espionage case?
I explained 377. How about explaining Snowman?
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteThere was some action movie where a big Sikorsky helo (USAF Jolly Green?) drags a stuntman dressed as the movie hero on a line and lowers him onto a 747 in flight, right behind the upper deck hump. As I understand it the scene was real, not a special effects fake. Snowman, bet you can find the video. It shows that a turbine helo and jet transport can match speeds.
You probably mean "Airport 1975" when they lower him into a hole in the 747?
That was flight 409, not 305.
(edit) image of the scene attached
Mr.Nuke 0
Quoterelated trivia:
Edward Daley's last World Airways flight out of Danang
took off with stairs down, the cargo doors open (full of people), grenade damage to flaps, guns fired at cockpit. Over 300 people on board. Dead soldier hanging out of the wheel well, preventing gear retraction.
There are many accounts online, some first person, but this tv news report from back then (youtube) is a particularly gripping reminder of the times back then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoA02PmueH4
(edit) starting at 1:38 you can see Ed Daly standing on the stairs as the plane is taxiing, with a gun in his hand, and people chasing on the runway. At 3:22 they're at 6000 ft, with stairs down, and a guy hanging on the stairs.
(edit) I'll note this seems to be the existence proof of what a lot of people told me wasn't possible. Doesn't mean much, but I find it interesting. Don't know if stairs were locked down or not. I guess not.
Glad you found this. I was going to bring it up in a couple of days here, but was waiting to see if someone would find it.
Keep in mind it was Boeing saying it wasn't possible in 1971. What the World Airways crew likely did is raised their rotation speed, staying on the ground quite a bit longer than they normally would have. With added speed you can get in the air with a lower climb out. You are still putting the plane in risk of damage to the stairs and add a higher risk to things like the landing gear and flaps for exposing them to higher than normal operating speeds. Of course in the World Airways incident they really didn't have a choice and just wanted to get the heck out of their. The plane had already been damaged suffering numerous gun shot holes and a grenade going off under the wing.
Jo, seems odd that one more time, Duane was near a skydiving center "Loveland" just a few miles from Collins
........
Just a little error on the keyboard.
We lived in Ft. Collins Co and he got a DUI there in 1979 or maybe early 1980.
.................
........
Just a little error on the keyboard.
We lived in Ft. Collins Co and he got a DUI there in 1979 or maybe early 1980.
.................
377 20
Ed Daly loved to drink and loved to shoot his gun (just shoot it, not shoot it at someone), usually at the same time which reportedly got him in trouble with the law a couple of times. I met his personal pilot and got a tour of Ed's plane at Oakland CA back in the 80s. You'd think with tons of money and a huge maintenance base at Oakland, Ed would have the sleekest corp jet of the day at his disposal. Nope. His personal plane was an absolutely immaculate Convair 340 with two R 2800 radial piston engines and a well stocked bar. It had all the latest avionics including a Collins HF SSB radio and had recently flown to Europe... slowly. That was one sweet propliner.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Okay…
You are all fired. Turn in your badge and weapon.
Snowman has been posting (off and on) on this forum for about three months. You guys haven’t figured out (yet) what his screen-name is.
It isn’t Snowman, or snowman. Not snow-man, or Snow-Man.
His screen name is “snowmman”!
You’re gonna have to get a lot sharper if you’re gonna solve this case.
Sluggo 
By the way, he is a first-cousin to waterboardmman.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
377 20
Ok, enough drifting in off topic territory, back to Cooper:
Has Ckret ever answered the question about how solid McCoy's alibi was?
I just wonder if McCoy's "at home in Utah" alibi was corrobrated by evidence other than just family and friends testimony. I could see a frustrated McCoy- Cooper losing the loot on the first caper and deciding to do it over and do it right. McCoy makes such a perfect Cooper. Could he have arranged a false alibi?
One of the SLA bank robbery defendants, Steven Soliah, was aquitted in a jury trial with only a paper thin alibi from his girlfriend who was not a suspect. This was the 1975 Carmichael CA bank robbery in which Myrna Opsahl was fatally shot. The FBI strongly believed Soliah was a lookout at the robbery but his single person alibi corroboration saved him from being convicted.
Soliah might also have been lucky in that a frightened customer who looked a bit like him fled the robbery scene. His defense lawyer argued that witnesses confused the two people in the excitement and fear.
Alibis are powerful if the corroborating witness is "sellable" to a jury.
Ckret, how airtight was McCoy's alibi? Are you 100% sure he was not Cooper or something less than 100%?
377
Has Ckret ever answered the question about how solid McCoy's alibi was?
I just wonder if McCoy's "at home in Utah" alibi was corrobrated by evidence other than just family and friends testimony. I could see a frustrated McCoy- Cooper losing the loot on the first caper and deciding to do it over and do it right. McCoy makes such a perfect Cooper. Could he have arranged a false alibi?
One of the SLA bank robbery defendants, Steven Soliah, was aquitted in a jury trial with only a paper thin alibi from his girlfriend who was not a suspect. This was the 1975 Carmichael CA bank robbery in which Myrna Opsahl was fatally shot. The FBI strongly believed Soliah was a lookout at the robbery but his single person alibi corroboration saved him from being convicted.
Soliah might also have been lucky in that a frightened customer who looked a bit like him fled the robbery scene. His defense lawyer argued that witnesses confused the two people in the excitement and fear.
Alibis are powerful if the corroborating witness is "sellable" to a jury.
Ckret, how airtight was McCoy's alibi? Are you 100% sure he was not Cooper or something less than 100%?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
[world airway history in the interesting period, plus Ed Daly anecdotal email at bottom...age, gambling, 727 knowledge, it all adds up. If he was a skydiver, he'd probably have done some mass murder too!]
World received a contract to carry military personnel and equipment on trans-continental routes. A succession of contracts and new aircraft followed quickly thereafter. World expanded from a pair of DC-4s at the beginning of 1960 to a fleet of eight DC-6A's, four Lockheed Super Constellations and three Lockheed 1649A Starliners by the summer of 1962.
Daly decided to take World public - selling 19.5 percent of his stock in an initial public offering that raised $22.9 million. By the late 60s, World had a fleet of six newly acquired Boeing 727-100s, five 707-373Cs, and had broken ground on the $11 million Air Center and International Headquarters at Oakland International Airport.
On June 30, 1966, Ed Daly reserved delivery positions for three Boeing model 2707 supersonic jetliners.
More so than any other airline, World played a major role in the United States' involvement in the Vietnam conflict.
During most of the war, World - along with most other airlines, provided airlift for military personnel and materiel across the Pacific. But in July 1968, World started Rest and Rehabilitation (R and R) flights for battle weary troops from Vietnam to Japan and Australia. In addition, World was responsible for delivery of Stars and Stripes, the military newspaper, to Vietnam from Japan where it was printed.
In December 1970, in association with the United Service Organization (U.S.O.), World offered a "Homecoming Fare" to servicemen and women in Vietnam and other Pacific bases. For $350, military personnel got a round trip flight from Saigon to Oakland. The service ended in December 1971.
an email posted on the web:
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008
To:
Subject: World Airways - Last Flight from Da Nang
Steve, I knew all those guys. My only “combat” experience with Ed Daly was in 1979 when we were on strike and he came to the picket line with a revolver. He was waving it all over the place. I was about 3 feet from him and turned to go get my picket sign when I heard the damn thing go off. I dived into the iceberg plants and then heard the bastard laughing. He fired off a couple more rounds then left. He used to come out and arm wrestle us on the picket line. He was very strong. He was known to show up to union negotiations with a gun, slap it on the desk and say, “OK you sons of bitches let’s talk!” Our union was the Teamsters and he even scared them. I’ve got a lot of Daly stories some funny but most were sad. He was a mega drunk and won World in a poker game.
While that flight was going on I was flying Rescue HC-130s for the USAF.
BTW, We had to watch that video during new hire indoc and some recurrents until Daly died. He was an SOB but definitely a real man. Loved to fist fight to settle problems.
World received a contract to carry military personnel and equipment on trans-continental routes. A succession of contracts and new aircraft followed quickly thereafter. World expanded from a pair of DC-4s at the beginning of 1960 to a fleet of eight DC-6A's, four Lockheed Super Constellations and three Lockheed 1649A Starliners by the summer of 1962.
Daly decided to take World public - selling 19.5 percent of his stock in an initial public offering that raised $22.9 million. By the late 60s, World had a fleet of six newly acquired Boeing 727-100s, five 707-373Cs, and had broken ground on the $11 million Air Center and International Headquarters at Oakland International Airport.
On June 30, 1966, Ed Daly reserved delivery positions for three Boeing model 2707 supersonic jetliners.
More so than any other airline, World played a major role in the United States' involvement in the Vietnam conflict.
During most of the war, World - along with most other airlines, provided airlift for military personnel and materiel across the Pacific. But in July 1968, World started Rest and Rehabilitation (R and R) flights for battle weary troops from Vietnam to Japan and Australia. In addition, World was responsible for delivery of Stars and Stripes, the military newspaper, to Vietnam from Japan where it was printed.
In December 1970, in association with the United Service Organization (U.S.O.), World offered a "Homecoming Fare" to servicemen and women in Vietnam and other Pacific bases. For $350, military personnel got a round trip flight from Saigon to Oakland. The service ended in December 1971.
an email posted on the web:
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008
To:
Subject: World Airways - Last Flight from Da Nang
Steve, I knew all those guys. My only “combat” experience with Ed Daly was in 1979 when we were on strike and he came to the picket line with a revolver. He was waving it all over the place. I was about 3 feet from him and turned to go get my picket sign when I heard the damn thing go off. I dived into the iceberg plants and then heard the bastard laughing. He fired off a couple more rounds then left. He used to come out and arm wrestle us on the picket line. He was very strong. He was known to show up to union negotiations with a gun, slap it on the desk and say, “OK you sons of bitches let’s talk!” Our union was the Teamsters and he even scared them. I’ve got a lot of Daly stories some funny but most were sad. He was a mega drunk and won World in a poker game.
While that flight was going on I was flying Rescue HC-130s for the USAF.
BTW, We had to watch that video during new hire indoc and some recurrents until Daly died. He was an SOB but definitely a real man. Loved to fist fight to settle problems.
snowmman 3
Quote
By the way, he is a first-cousin to waterboardmman.
okay, okay, you got me.
Here's a picture of the home digs. We call it "The Salt Pit",
affectionately. Ckret should have stopped by when he swung round Iraq.
377 20
QuoteOkay…
You are all fired. Turn in your badge and weapon.
Snowman has been posting (off and on) on this forum for about three months. You guys haven’t figured out (yet) what his screen-name is.
It isn’t Snowman, or snowman. Not snow-man, or Snow-Man.
His screen name is “snowmman”!
You’re gonna have to get a lot sharper if you’re gonna solve this case.
Sluggo
By the way, he is a first-cousin to waterboardmman.
Sluggo,
I googled him as Snowmman and found him (assuming there is a singularity) to be a renaissance mman, into a zillion diverse things and in some depth, but no further clues.
Could it be some mashup of Snohomish man? Sonoma Man? I give up. Everything he does has a couple of levels. He probably ghost wrote The Matrix.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Jo,
What does knowing what time the helicopter got airborne and where it turned back to Portland tell you about anything? If you want to elaborate on the point you are trying to make that would be great. Thanks.
Snowman said:
This theory doesn't make much sense. So in short we can say if we know where the helicopter was we know 305 wasn't there so that somehow gives us insight into that night?
That also doesn't make much sense. Remember we are taking about night conditions and an airliner that was flying nearly twice as fast as the Huey could. Also Cooper demanded that 305 flied without lights. This means it would be quite plausible to fly right past the plane and not see it. I don't think that was the goal of sending a helicopter up though. 305 was given special instructions to squawk a special transponder code and to flash its lights when Cooper jumped. Of course that never happened. They likely sent the helicopter up figuring that Cooper would jump fairly early, 305 would signal that he jumped, and they could then pinpoint the area and get the helicopter there in enough time to catch him if he survived the jump.
And yes they likely would've been fed radar vectors and no they would not have to worry about crashing as typical protocol would be to fly at a different altitude.
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