DB Cooper

[Ckret 0]

Some lead some wallow, as for your time left, who knows, I hear there are some really good vitamins out now days

[snowmman 3]

true story: I have a friend who used to sequence DNA back in the '80s when it wasn't as automated as today. I was making casual conversation to a prof recently, and told that story trying to sound like I knew something, and he pooh-pooh'ed it saying - "Sure you can sequence all the DNA, but the real question is: what do you do with that information then?"

And you know he was right. Once you have perfect knowledge, what do you do with it?

[Guru312 0]

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I noticed that skydivers who were thought to possibly be Cooper in the early 70s never vehemently denied it. They just made a joke out of it and basked in the tiny bit of glory that remained...

How true. I milked the perception of being DB Cooper for months. I made airplane payments, insurance payments and I bought food because people thought I was DB.

Never once did I explicitly say, or even imply, that I was DB Cooper. But people seemed to believe it...all because of the advert that I ran only once.

Similarly, I often said that I did not teach Jim O'Brien--a well-known East Coast jumper and Philadelphia TV weather man who died after a canopy entanglement--but people still occasionally ask, 25 years later, "Didn't you teach Jim O'Brien to jump?"

I wrote to local newspapers debunking that I had taught O'Brien and they still thought I was his instructor.

As P. T. Barnum supposedly said, "There's a Fool Born Every Minute."

But me...I am not DB Cooper.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

I've never said I'm not DB Cooper.

[snowmman 3]

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They just made a joke out of it and basked in the tiny bit of glory that remained...

Now I'm totally confused. Was there glory to start with? I thought he was a thug? I mean which is it? It feels like I'm watching two tv shows at once here. It's not right!

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,

Sugar told me that there was “NO WAY” I was coming in here and getting on the forum. I told her, I was the boss in this family and I would do as I pleased, that I didn’t take orders from her.

So, after she went to sleep, I sneaked in here and logged on.

I know some things that you don’t know:

I know who Lee was.
I know what flap setting Cooper specified.
I know who told the crew that “they” had dropped 2 – 300 lb boxes out of a 727 in that configuration.
I know (now) why my fuel calculations didn’t work. It was 4000 lbs/engine/hr not 4000 gal/hr.
I know that the flaps were set at 30-degrees at 19:45 PST.
I know who calculated the range of the aircraft.
I know that the crew considered dropping the cabin temperature, getting Cooper cold to slow down his reflexes and to do a slow climb to get him hypoxic.
I know that Ted Mayfield was discussed in a conference call while the hijacking was in progress.

I know a bunch of things that you don’t. Nyah… Nya..Nyah…Nyah {Child’s taunting voice}.

Actually, if you want to know this stuff too, go H E R E and take a look.

And then, send Ckret a post, PM, or e-mail and thank him for sharing with us. This is good stuff!

Oh crap! I hear Sugar coming… I’ve got to go!

Later,

Slggo_Monster

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[snowmman 3]

Excellent Sluggo. I'm ready to digest.

but one note...you just failed the entrance exam for NSA/CIA and may have to return your secret decoder ring....

You left the fax number on the top of the fax. I believe we can all spam Seattle FBI fax now! yahoo! I'm sending a pic of my butt..

Area code 206 is a telephone dialing code in the U.S. state of Washington for Seattle

REDACT!

[Ckret 0]

I would suggest you not do that.


SLUGGOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[snowmman 3]

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I would suggest you not do that.


SLUGGOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

well actually it's ckret's fault...What kind of lousy budget do you guys got? you should have used the top secret satellite phone fax mars bounce off the real reason we just put a new lander on mars thingee...or didn't you get the memo this month?

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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Theatrical performers and acrobats rely heavily on the power of illusion.

Be careful georger, I used the word "illusionist" and Ckret yelled at me!

Sluggo

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[snowmman 3]

page 3

"7:43 PM Aft air-stair warning light ON (stairs apparently now partially extended.)"

I think we all agree that the warning light means nothing about stair extension, and only about the stair door being cracked open, correct?

I think this erroneous assumption made it easy to believe that the oscillation was the jump, as opposed to the stair deployment.

Same section also confirms Boeing knew about inflight stair deployment (which we already knew)

here:
"Crew had been furnished Boeing procedure for extending stairs in flight."

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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page 3

"HJ specified... that the aft entry door must be open at all times, and that the aft stairs be extended after take-off.

Later specified that the stairs must be fully extended before take-off."

The actual facts are even better than just saying one or the other. He said both! ...i.e. he changed his mind from a request that showed knowledge, to one that showed less knowledge.

So we shouldn't just note his final request. We have to note both.

And we should try to dig to see what triggered the change? Did he react to something? Did he just think "Oh shit, I left my fingerprints"...what triggered the change?

Hmmmm.... That makes; "I left my fingerprint on the aft stairs!" take on a whole new meaning.

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[snowmman 3]

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Hmmmm.... That makes; "I left my fingerprint on the aft stairs!" take on a whole new meaning.

yeah, and I think I heard Ckret screaming that in his boss's office just after he sent you the fax...:)

[snowmman 3]

I know it says Al Lee is SEA "Chief Pilot" Director of Flying, Western Region.

But I think that's B.S.

I think AL LEE was some kind of codename for an FBI person. The way it's used later on with different spellings and capitalizations ...AL ...LE ...LEE..

There's no way Al Lee was some "Chief Pilot" like they say. ...that's gotta be a cover story.

other people's thoughts?

[Mr.Nuke 0]

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I know it says Al Lee is SEA "Chief Pilot" Director of Flying, Western Region.

But I think that's B.S.

I think AL LEE was some kind of codename for an FBI person. The way it's used later on with different spellings and capitalizations ...AL ...LE ...LEE..

There's no way Al Lee was some "Chief Pilot" like they say. ...that's gotta be a cover story.

other people's thoughts?

I think you are wrong.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

I know it says Al Lee is SEA "Chief Pilot" Director of Flying, Western Region.

But I think that's B.S.

I think AL LEE was some kind of codename for an FBI person. The way it's used later on with different spellings and capitalizations ...AL ...LE ...LEE..

There's no way Al Lee was some "Chief Pilot" like they say. ...that's gotta be a cover story.

other people's thoughts?

I think you are wrong.

Okay, I'm off to track down Al Lee's girlfriend, then.
A recurring myth/fact is she always carried a can of Altoids mints. This was in the first printing of Tosaw's book, but mysteriously disappeared in all future printings. I'm on the case though. Dog is my copilot.

[snowmman 3]

so it does sound like that's a valid position.
I think I stand corrected. Thanks Nuke!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/28117_pilotop.shtml

Third runway unnecessary, unsafe
Wednesday, June 20, 2001

By SVEN HOLM
PILOT

During my 34-plus years as a commercial airline pilot I logged more than 15,000 hours flying everything from the 707 to the 747.

In my role as Western and Pacific region director of flying for Northwest Airlines ..., I was responsible for managing 1,000 pilots and working with airport issues, air safety, air traffic, pilot training and other important matters involving airline operations.

(edit) Here's a similar guy down in Memphis

Northwest Picks Up Flock of New Boeing Jets in Seattle.
Commercial Appeal AccessMyLibrary.com - Jul 22, 2002
So it's here where Northwest Airlines Corp. came last week to view and then ... Bob McAfee, director of flying and chief pilot for Northwest in Memphis. ...

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Want some help with “the lingo?”

Here are some of the abbreviations and acronyms used in the flight logs.

AI = Anti-icing
ARING = ?? Air Traffic Control
DME = Distance Measuring Equipment (an enhancement to some VORs)
EUG VOR = Eugene, OR VORTAC near Mahlon Sweet Field Airport
FF = Fuel Flow, the rate the fuel is being used
GC = Ground Control Position
GEAR = The retractable wheels on an airplane
HJ = the hijacker (Dan Cooper)
IAS = Indicated Air Speed (KIAS is Knots IAS)
MFR = Rogue Valley International - Medford Airport
MOCA = Minimum Obstruction Clearance Altitude
MSPFO = NWA Flight Operations in Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota (Eagle-One)
NWA = Northwest Airlines
NWAFO = Northwest Airlines Flight Operations
NWAFO = Northwest Airlines Flight Operations
OM = Outer Marker (a point in the Instrument Landing System (ILS))
PHX = Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport
RBL = Red Bluff Municipal Airport
RNO = Reno/Tahoe International Airport
SEA = Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
SEADD = SEA Flight Dispatch
SFO = San Francisco International Airport
TAT = Total Air Temperature
UAL = United Air Lines
VOR = Very High Frequency (VHF) Omni-range.
WAL = ? an airline
YUM = Yuma Marine Corps Air Station/Yuma International Airport
Yuma, Arizona, USA

Sluggo_Monster

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[snowmman 3]

Western and American were talking merger in 1971
see below. Probably went thru?
(edit) WAL was ? acronym in Sluggo's decoder ring above.


WAL Continues to Grow With L.A.
Los Angeles Times Sep 24 1961
Western Air Lines' move to new Los Angeles International Airport terminal facilities in the near future has special significance for the nation's senior airline--the only airline headquartered at Los Angeles.

American Airlines, the 2d Biggest Domestic Line, Talks With Western; AIRLINES HOLDING TALKS ON MERGER
New York Times - Oct 31, 1970
American Airlines, the nation's second largest domestic air carrier, and Western Air Lines, the sixth largest, announced yesterday that they were holding merger discussions.
...
Western Air Lines net income for the first nine months was $475000. The company also is expected to report a loss for the full year.

Cabinet Units Split On Plan to Merge 2 Major Airlines;
New York Times Sept. 1, 1971
WASHINGTON, Aug. 31--The Nixon Administration was split today over the proposed merger of American Airlines and Western Airlines.

[snowmman 3]

I hadn't realized Donald, OR was an interesting place (mentioned with Ted Mayfield in the new transcript).

I like looking for related trivia, and how they used to talk about skydiving back then. Donald, OR must have been an interesting place back then?

What's almost laughable, is how random facts got thrown together over the years to imply most anything anyone wanted...Hey Jim Lowe is a skydiving champ! get the cuffs, he's probably either a mass murderer or a hijacker.

I don't know anything about Mayfield's criminal record, but I thought it was funny how they liked to say "criminal record" plus "skydiving champion" equals CONVICT HIM!


Walla Walla Union Bulletin (Newspaper) - July 29, 1969,

High-diving champion DONALD, Ore. (AP) Jim Lowe, a 29-year-old resident of this rural Marion County community, is the United States national sky-diving champion. He led all competitors last...

[snowmman 3]

Thanks for the latest transcripts.

I'm always amazed by how we can scrape and scrape and get new evidence. I think one of the myths was that there was no evidence "in the box". It's all about how you look at it, I think.

[skyjack71 0]

The only book of unkown origin is
Ha Ha Ha by D.B. Cooper. Copies of this book are non existent on the market. I do have one.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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I think people who knew things like airspeed limits, flap settings, etc would be more likely to be Internet competent in old age. I know a lot of old pilots and they ALL are web surfers. I have represented defendants whose crime stories made the news. They were often more interested in the stories than they were in assisting in their own defense. It's just human nature. If Cooper is alive, he reads a lot about himself and most of the info is on the Internet.

I would not have a computer today if it had not been for the real estate business - I purchased my 1st computer in 2000.

I have several members of my family who are the age Cooper would be today and some who are no longer with us. They do not own or use computers.

I have no idea what the general conception for computer use among those over 75 are - just stating what I do know.

Interesting trivia to know.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Go back and look at it again.
The x indicates where to sign the signature on the opposite side - Impression taken by.

That is what I see, but I can't see it all at once - been unable to reduce it to copy and paste on a page.

I will note something I have a question about. The number on the print file - is that supposed to be his prison file number?

Curious as I have several numbers and those number do not match up with anything I have. I also the numbers are marked out and new numbers with a different type are put to the right.

For the benefit of AGGIE please let her know that the FBI does not have any prints they know were Coopers - they can only hope he left prints behind.

You know yrs ago the FBI could have provided me with some of the information you have made available in a public forum. I question the methods of the FBI.

What others are not aware of is that most of our communications take place right here in this forum.

We talked 4 times on the phone and one of thoses was your quick phone call to let me know you were going public and wanted me to know just before release that Duane's DNA was not a match to DNA extracted from the tie.

The date of that Call was when you went public yet you also stated in a public medium that I was told this in Feburary of 2007 - THAT is NOT TRUE and I never RECIEVED an APOLOGY nor did was it ever publicly acknowledge I had not been told.

You made it appear to the media and to the general population that I was continueing with my story in the face of information the FBI felt proved Duane was not Cooper.

Another erroneous error.

Now all I have to do is match those prints with another set of prints...

I have never meant to give you a hard time - and I still believe Duane was Cooper. I do appreciate the information. but it changes nothing! I do not belive that Duane spent a 17 yr marriage making up little stories that I might not ever remember to make a grand exit when he knew he was going to die - by tellimg me he was Cooper.

Nothing takes away the things I saw and held in my hands - why fake those things and hide them. Tell me they didn't mean anything and then retrive them to hide them again or destroy them. Of course, I am aware of what most in this forum think.

No, I am not Crazy nor am I dillusional. Nor have I made up any parts of the story - there are times I speculate as everyone else does - because I keep trying to figure out the how and whys.

Until there is concrete evidence to the contrary - I maintain that Duane L. Weber was Dan Cooper and if he wasn't he sure as hell knew who was. If you truely want to know who Cooper was you will continue to dig into who Duane L. Weber was and who he knew.

I have made that statement since day one. Even in my first calls to the FBI and to anyone else I have spoke to in detail. I just wanted to let AGGIE know this before she goes off on one of her posts.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

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I was thinking of the perfect revenge.
Do something nasty based on inside knowledge shared only between you and your target.

Then if you're discovered or suspected, you also might have the "get out jail free card" because there's something about the inside knowledge used the target(s) might not want to reveal....

It might give you enough confidence that you wouldn't worry about disguises and such. And even if you die doing it, it reveals the inside knowledge, which could still enact the revenge even though you're dead. (public embarassment or ???)

We've mused how Boeing or NWA would be logical targets for revenge. The targets might be more fuzzy, like Congress/USA in general. We talked about Vietnam War motives, son KIA possibilities...

But a nice target would be the entity that destroyed your dream, whatever that might be.

I have always wondered why Cooper did not disguise himself with a wig, mustache, hair dye, makeup etc. It has an "I don't care if I am identified because I am immune to capture" aspect that has always puzzled me. Could he have actually done a masterful disguise that was undetected?

REPLY: Cant resist posting this.

Have you ever seen a little kid get off his bike and
have a whiz right at the side of his bike, as if the bike
meant privacy, right out in the middle of a street with
the whole world watching and laughing, and some parents & teachers taking notes to complain to the
kid's parents with? Some kids never grow up!

Something tell me Ckret sees a lot of this in his work?