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quade

DB Cooper

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Ckret:
in general don't have any problems with your theory on the jump.

But:
need a micro-timeline that resolves
1) when the aft lite came on
2) when the interaction was between Cooper and crew for slowing the plane down
3) oscillations
4) bump

I agree there would be a learning curve. I'm wondering about the exact time of 2)
I don't think we know that yet?
Also, when they slowed down, did they change the flaps to 30? this has been an unresolved myth.

I'm curious about the delay between 2) and 3)



I am glad you brought up flaps at 30, I found another log that references 30. If someone is up for scanning the docs I'll fax it to you. The time line if I recall is aft light on at 7:42, wheels up was 7:36

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Sluggo's timeline at his web page has the following in the timeline.

"19:44 PST Flt 305 advises they will hold at 7,000 ft. We have the back steps down now and it looks like we aren’t going to be able to climb anymore."

I was thinking that there's no way for the crew to know if the back steps are down...They can't tell, there's no indicator other than the aft stair lite which apparently comes on when you crack the door, not when the stairs are down.

I didn't find the exact transcript that Sluggo paraphrased above, but I suspect it led to some of the misunderstanding about when stairs were actually usable for jumping, which may also have contributed to getting the jump point wrong.

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If someone is up for scanning the docs I'll fax it to you. The time line if I recall is aft light on at 7:42, wheels up was 7:36



the best would be getting it to Sluggo so he could post on his web site? [any additional logs that show interaction between cooper/crew on slowing the plane down and flaps=30 myth or not]

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The only thing left is he didn't ask for a flight path because he didn't care; get money, get chutes, put chute on, strap money on, stairs open at takeoff, jump while I can still see the ground, land and walk away to a new life.



I've been mulling over revenge theories again. I was wondering if the idea of revenge (he mentioned he had a grudge) overwhelmed his logical thinking. ...i.e. number 1 was the grudge, number 2 was success.

I know you've pushed the money-only aspect of this hijack. But based on other examples, I think grudge+money is a stronger case here, and could also explain some flaws in logical thinking.

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Sluggo,

We await you reinvigorated return. Have fun with your grandson. Your cerebral processor has been overclocked for months, let it cool and then reboot.

Your contributions to the forum are awesome, truly. With the Sluggo-Snowman Ying Yang balance now disrupted, what will become of us? I feel a disruption in THE FORCE.

Hurry back. We'll leave the light on for ya.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I was thinking of the perfect revenge.
Do something nasty based on inside knowledge shared only between you and your target.

Then if you're discovered or suspected, you also might have the "get out jail free card" because there's something about the inside knowledge used the target(s) might not want to reveal....

It might give you enough confidence that you wouldn't worry about disguises and such. And even if you die doing it, it reveals the inside knowledge, which could still enact the revenge even though you're dead. (public embarassment or ???)

We've mused how Boeing or NWA would be logical targets for revenge. The targets might be more fuzzy, like Congress/USA in general. We talked about Vietnam War motives, son KIA possibilities...

But a nice target would be the entity that destroyed your dream, whatever that might be.

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You know if Cooper were still alive he'd be reading this and other forums that feature him. The temptation would be too great.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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You know if Cooper were still alive he'd be reading this and other forums that feature him. The temptation would be too great.



how do you know that?



Just human nature Snowman. People are vain. If you had pulled that caper off wouldn't you be Googling to see what was written about you?

FBI Norjak number 377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I was thinking of the perfect revenge.
Do something nasty based on inside knowledge shared only between you and your target.

Then if you're discovered or suspected, you also might have the "get out jail free card" because there's something about the inside knowledge used the target(s) might not want to reveal....

It might give you enough confidence that you wouldn't worry about disguises and such. And even if you die doing it, it reveals the inside knowledge, which could still enact the revenge even though you're dead. (public embarassment or ???)

We've mused how Boeing or NWA would be logical targets for revenge. The targets might be more fuzzy, like Congress/USA in general. We talked about Vietnam War motives, son KIA possibilities...

But a nice target would be the entity that destroyed your dream, whatever that might be.



I have always wondered why Cooper did not disguise himself with a wig, mustache, hair dye, makeup etc. It has an "I don't care if I am identified because I am immune to capture" aspect that has always puzzled me. Could he have actually done a masterful disguise that was undetected?
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I go to bed early and the forum explodes, great discussion. I am racing out the door, don't know if I have any time today for Cooper. Two things:

Don't think I am not being opened minded, we have little to no evidence in this case so we are creating facts based on reconstruction. Very tricky stuff in my world so it takes time and thought.

On that path, a question based on what I quickly read through. V 23 seems to me an "all or nothing" situation, either Cooper plays dumb in every aspect or he gives himself away.

Cooper configures the aircraft for the type of flight performance he wants. Relays to the crew he has knowledge of the aircraft (Tina stated Cooper seemed to know about the operations of the 727). Spots landmarks from the air and lets tina know (granted, not the end all be all but if you trying to hide your knowledge why say anything, there was no need).

So basically Cooper runs his mouth enough that the crew felt he had flight experience and the FBI did as well. But then when it came to something so important for the success of his crime, the flight path, he then becomes evasive to throw off investigators?

It has not added up yet, but I am waiting.

Sluggo,

as much as you would like to separate number crunching from knuckle dragging it can't be done in this case. Whatever your numbers tell us, in the end they have to overlay a human being. If the two don't mesh we have to find out why



REPLY:
May I make a suggestion: Dont worry so much about
the he-said she-said of what Cooper knew or thought
etc. All that matters is 8:11-8:16 and a possible DZ.
Then go out and look. My guess is its going to take
several searches at several locations. I would look
first at the old air strip Sluggo seems suspicious of
and if that doesnt turn up something go to the next
most probable site and look there.

A number of people through the yeares have suggested this old abandoned air strip Sluggo cites
so it may have already been searched?

But, for the very reason you cite: ... "we have little to no evidence in this case so we are creating facts based on reconstruction. Very tricky stuff ..." you must find
two or three possible DZ's and do an actual search.
I would take along some people who are very good at
searching ... like an archaeologist!

Looking at Sluggo's images last night it struck me
I205 is very close and a straight route to the Columbia
which could link to some event and Tena Bar later. It's
a thought.

Its been a lucky day for me here, Maybe my luck will rub off so I will post this -

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"10,000 ft and 200mph" are guidelines. Those instructions do not illustrate pre-planning of a flight path. Are there any other facts that support such a theory?

It sounds like coincidence that only one route supports a 10,000 ft flight. Using those instructions in Illinois (a cornfield separated by roads), he could have done a survivable jump anywhere.



REPLY -
I think he had flown the path before (checked it out)
and is on some previous passenger list from some origin, under his own name or an assumed name -
say six months prior? 305's route began as far
away as Wasington DC. if I am correct.

I would have thought it rather easy to run previous passenger names to see if one did not connect to a
fake name or nonperson rather easily.

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there could be a little bit of arrogance...."Just fly it like this and I'll get out of it and survive"

REPLY -

Arrogance or unrealism. This man got "giddy" at receiving the money, was childlike (Tina said), offered Tina some of the money ........... these are very specific factual traits we can use. This is the kind of adult he was. Naive? Deprived?

Whether that fits with him being a skilled person I dont know. In fact if you go to the DOT (Dictionary of
Occupational Titles) and match personality traits
(as measured by the MMPI) with occupational skills
Im not sure where naive people would wind up being
placed.

One other option is, he was mentally ill and semi-
delusional.

To date we have been looking into DBC's actions to profile him. His non-actions or omissions to act also say something. Example, he got very angry finally, sitting at SEA during fueling and wanted to "get this plane on the road". If he intended to bail at SEA and missed that, he did not get similarly angry. He went all the way to 20:12-16 before bailing and didnt get angry, apparently. He didnt seem angry at 20:05
when he said 'everything ok'. And he didnt act superior
and impersonal with Tina when she pleaded with him not to blow her and the plane up - he basically told her
he wouldnt, and he didnt.

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I have always wondered why Cooper did not disguise himself with a wig, mustache, hair dye, makeup etc. It has an "I don't care if I am identified because I am immune to capture" aspect that has always puzzled me. Could he have actually done a masterful disguise that was undetected?



I believe you already know the answer to that - but you have to be willing to accept what no one wants to believe.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I was thinking of the perfect revenge.
Do something nasty based on inside knowledge shared only between you and your target.

Then if you're discovered or suspected, you also might have the "get out jail free card" because there's something about the inside knowledge used the target(s) might not want to reveal....

It might give you enough confidence that you wouldn't worry about disguises and such. And even if you die doing it, it reveals the inside knowledge, which could still enact the revenge even though you're dead. (public embarassment or ???)

We've mused how Boeing or NWA would be logical targets for revenge. The targets might be more fuzzy, like Congress/USA in general. We talked about Vietnam War motives, son KIA possibilities...

But a nice target would be the entity that destroyed your dream, whatever that might be.




Consult the I-Ching.

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A quote from Georger:

"Arrogance or unrealism. This man got "giddy" at receiving the money, was childlike (Tina said), offered Tina some of the money ........... these are very specific factual traits we can use. This is the kind of adult he was. Naive? Deprived? "

Snowman I promised you some photos but I have a terrible time scanning to fit the forum. Don't know how to do much with the photos.

Be sure to look at pictures of yourself and friends at high school graduation and then 30 yrs later.
The eyebrow thin out with age. He also learned to keep his eyebrows trimmed.

The Canon City was in a 1960 prison file and we don't know how it got there or when it was taken.

Age 25 was provided by the brother and we could only guess at the age.

Close-up is the polaroid shot made in 1971 with his hair dyed (per his wife of the time) and in a brown suit with Glasses.

Composite from FBI - actual scan of the composite they sent me. No alterations.

I will have to reduce the other pics and post later.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Three more photos:

I have two photos taken at the same time without Glasses. But he is very GIDDY and CLOWNING around. These are the only kind of photos he alllowed with his glasses off.

In the first one he has been out all afternoon by himself in Seattle.
By the way - the shirt is really pink.
He loved silky shirts.

The second one with that stupid pipe.

The third will be the only photo besides what the news media has of the two of us together - I hate the photo, but it is essential to show the difference in the complexion. I am OLIVE and I tan easily, but his "olive" is golden - the latin look Tina and Florence described.

I have tried many times to explain to the site the complexion thing and this does it the best Olive was a catch all in the 60's.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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You can make a statement like that and yet you claimed that the FBI used 1944 prints to make a Master File for Duane L. Weber.



There's usable quality latent prints and there's AFIS quality prints. AFIS quality prints are good to tell you who belongs to a certain set of latent prints. Usable quality prints are good to tell who doesn't belong to a certain set of latent prints. So they (FBI crime lab) were able to positively state that the prints Cooper left behind at the crime scene were positively not Webers, but the latent prints were not of the quality to dump into AFIS and let the computer tell them who they belonged to.

A master set of prints are just that, a set that is a combination of various 10-print cards to give the best quality print for each digit. Nothing is made up, nothing is changed, its just that when you roll a 10-print on paper with ink, there are sometimes problems with the rolled print. e.g. the person you're printing is not very happy with you and the finger slides a little bit on the paper. Modern systems alleviate this to some extent using inkless systems, but this is still practiced today.

All in all this is basic police academy recruit stuff, I thought you'd have a better understanding of how this stuff worked after years of "research."
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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There's usable quality latent prints and there's AFIS quality prints. AFIS quality prints are good to tell you who belongs to a certain set of latent prints. Usable quality prints are good to tell who doesn't belong to a certain set of latent prints. So they (FBI crime lab) were able to positively state that the prints Cooper left behind at the crime scene were positively not Webers, but the latent prints were not of the quality to dump into AFIS and let the computer tell them who they belonged to.



Guys,this person will not leave me alone and I made this persons
error in the above statement in bold because the FBI does not know if any of the prints on the plane belonged to Cooper.

I came on the site very late to do the photos that snowman requested and this person will not leave me alone.

Aggie - haven't you been into this forum long enough to know about the prints?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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because the FBI does not know if any of the prints on the plane belonged to Cooper.



If you really believed that then you wouldn't have made such a stink about the mast print card. Just because its yet another "smoking gun" that shows that Weber was a liar who pulled the wool over your eyes, then it doesn't mean that its not true.

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Aggie - haven't you been into this forum long enough to know about the prints?



I've been on DZ.com since May 22, of 2000, the day after my first skydive, I understand your doubt surrounding actual facts in this case. I'm also clear on wild and grand statements about Weber and how none of it proves he was even close enough to have had watched a news cast of the crime when it happened.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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