georger 197
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georger 197
QuoteI'm throwing this out based on Jo's comments.
It's possible that the max lifetime of any garbage on Tina Bar within 2" of the surface is less than 1 year. I don't know.
It's possible it's more than that. I don't know. So somehow one can form an opinion. There may be things unique to Tina Bar that affect this: cattle traffic, people traffic, water erosion, yearly dredging by the Fazio Bros. Sand Co. (although I believe they can't deposit spoils on the beach now, because of salmon spawning issues?)
REPLY: This enhances the idea people have posted here that the shoreline along the Columbia is visited
frequently, even back in the 70's.
There is nothing clean about this case!
There may be litter collection happening now. There may or may not have been in '71-'80.
The opinion may vary depending on the type of garbage: metal, wood, paper, food, plastic.
snowmman 3
Quote
georger said:
The money was encased in silt already present for some time at Tina Bar before any recent melt just days before the money was found. I do not believe
the melt of late 1979 into 1980 can explain the
money having newly arrived at that time.
One problem I have when we discuss stuff with regard to the money find, is that we all act like we know how river debris acts and how silt covers. From what I've read, I think we as a group know nothing in that area.
I've attached a picture of what I think of when I think river debris. (other than floating wood/branches)
Also: here's some interesting info:
I've been trying to find data on trash in rivers.
Here's one interesting set of info that's related.
Beach Debris Data from the Ocean Conservancy.
Aggregate snapshot of cleanup efforts of 380,000 volunteers in over 75 countries picking up stuff on ocean beaches.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pjhtZL6VSrXyIvsofEzr5Pw
Shotgun shells are more common than you would think.
And I've discovered that the decomposition lifetime of cigarette butts is actually a lot shorter than I thought. (cellulose acetate filters).
Newspaper is not shown in the spreadsheet at that site, although other places seem to say newspaper can be common.
Nice article focusing on cigarette butt litter here:
http://www.longwood.edu/cleanva/ciglitterarticle.htm
None of us are geologist and hydrologist - to keep hashing this around is a waste of time and only confuses everyone - I suggest someone get the FACTs - FLOODS, water levels, etc. and stop this useless thing until then.
It is a fact that the beach was open to lots of traffic back then - both human and animal. I don't know anything about the Fazio's dredging - that was new to me - all I know is that they owned the land the money was found on and how they used that land. All so note that the island you see across from Tena's bar was NOT there in 1971.
The levels of the silt - read again and learn???? This was investigated very thoroughly before and determined the layers - they did not actually ever say which layer the money was in - it if was only 1 inch or 2 inches - it was not there very long. Because Bryan found the money by raking his hands across the sand means it was NOT deep. The spot that Bryan actually found the money is closer to the trees...as per what was shown to me in 2001. Also the beach was not as wide in 1971 as it is today or was in 2001.
Taking something here and there and not a FULL study - well, forget it - this is totally boring and not gaining any ground in anyway toward solving this. The time needs to be spent getting facts...about the levels , activities, floods - a full calendar of events from 1971 to 1980. Also pictures for each yr of the beach - if possible.
Contact the locals and ask for help. People do help when they are asked. This is what I intend to do in Oct. ASK the people to help me. I also want as much as possible done in the way of research before I go...surely there is some one in that area who can tell you everything about that river and that area that has ever happened.
Somewhere I have the date of the flood - because I know it happened before 1979. The house was gone. Don't even ask me about what house and how I know it was gone - just believe me a house was gone.
The RIVER LADY who I have referred to before lived about a football fields lenght and one-half from the house - the home she lived in sat higher, but the house was closer to the rivers edge and lower and very old.. It was actually more cabin than house from what I was told. This is one piece of property I want to know who owned it in 1971.
It is a fact that the beach was open to lots of traffic back then - both human and animal. I don't know anything about the Fazio's dredging - that was new to me - all I know is that they owned the land the money was found on and how they used that land. All so note that the island you see across from Tena's bar was NOT there in 1971.
The levels of the silt - read again and learn???? This was investigated very thoroughly before and determined the layers - they did not actually ever say which layer the money was in - it if was only 1 inch or 2 inches - it was not there very long. Because Bryan found the money by raking his hands across the sand means it was NOT deep. The spot that Bryan actually found the money is closer to the trees...as per what was shown to me in 2001. Also the beach was not as wide in 1971 as it is today or was in 2001.
Taking something here and there and not a FULL study - well, forget it - this is totally boring and not gaining any ground in anyway toward solving this. The time needs to be spent getting facts...about the levels , activities, floods - a full calendar of events from 1971 to 1980. Also pictures for each yr of the beach - if possible.
Contact the locals and ask for help. People do help when they are asked. This is what I intend to do in Oct. ASK the people to help me. I also want as much as possible done in the way of research before I go...surely there is some one in that area who can tell you everything about that river and that area that has ever happened.
Somewhere I have the date of the flood - because I know it happened before 1979. The house was gone. Don't even ask me about what house and how I know it was gone - just believe me a house was gone.
The RIVER LADY who I have referred to before lived about a football fields lenght and one-half from the house - the home she lived in sat higher, but the house was closer to the rivers edge and lower and very old.. It was actually more cabin than house from what I was told. This is one piece of property I want to know who owned it in 1971.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
There is a very good presentation on the hydrology of Vancouver lake at:
http://www.cityofvancouver.us/PublicWorks/vancouverlake/MapsMaterials/ClarkCountyVLWP03162005.pdf
interestingly it shows Lake River (the NE outlet) to have bidirectional flow from the Columbia, which I didn't realize.
There is good data there, including current pollutants (fecal colliform, PCBs)
from page 17
Hydrology is controlled by the stage of the Columbia River
April to June- Columbia River rises due to snowmelt, highest water levels mid-June; flow in Lake River is typically south into the lake
June to July - lake level drops rapidly; flow in Lake River is to the north carrying water away from the lake
July to November - Lake remains at a low level; flow in Lake River reverses daily.
page 16
October - Lowest lake and tributary levels; Lake river reverses daily due to tidal fluctuations
November to February - level level rises to intermediate levels as BBC and SC flows increase rapidly; Lake River reverses flow for days at a time
January - Tributary flows peak in January and lake water is dominated by flows other than the Columbia River.
page 11 notes extensive stormwater drainage from the NE and could be examined for alternate flow paths if so inclined (Salmon Creek Watershed)
Ron Wierenga is the author (Clark County Public Works)
(edit)
another quick overview, which also mentions the dredge/channel work that was done at Vancouver Lake in late '70s/early '80s
http://www.clark.wa.gov/water-resources/documents/Stream%20Health%20Report/Vancouver%20Lake.pdf
http://www.cityofvancouver.us/PublicWorks/vancouverlake/MapsMaterials/ClarkCountyVLWP03162005.pdf
interestingly it shows Lake River (the NE outlet) to have bidirectional flow from the Columbia, which I didn't realize.
There is good data there, including current pollutants (fecal colliform, PCBs)
from page 17
Hydrology is controlled by the stage of the Columbia River
April to June- Columbia River rises due to snowmelt, highest water levels mid-June; flow in Lake River is typically south into the lake
June to July - lake level drops rapidly; flow in Lake River is to the north carrying water away from the lake
July to November - Lake remains at a low level; flow in Lake River reverses daily.
page 16
October - Lowest lake and tributary levels; Lake river reverses daily due to tidal fluctuations
November to February - level level rises to intermediate levels as BBC and SC flows increase rapidly; Lake River reverses flow for days at a time
January - Tributary flows peak in January and lake water is dominated by flows other than the Columbia River.
page 11 notes extensive stormwater drainage from the NE and could be examined for alternate flow paths if so inclined (Salmon Creek Watershed)
Ron Wierenga is the author (Clark County Public Works)
(edit)
another quick overview, which also mentions the dredge/channel work that was done at Vancouver Lake in late '70s/early '80s
http://www.clark.wa.gov/water-resources/documents/Stream%20Health%20Report/Vancouver%20Lake.pdf
snowmman 3
Jo, if you don't know where the Fazio Bros. Sand Company gets their sand from, I'm really confused about how you can have such strong opinions about data around the money find site. It's like you're only watching one channel.
I don't know when they started the Sand Co, but suspect it may have been around the 1974 dredging..or before?
(people on the other side of the Columbia started selling sand from dredge spoils on their side also, as a result of that dredging. I have posted about that before).
Here's some data from Jack Fazio's obit:
Jack Zanobi Fazio died September 3, 2007, at the age of 72, from complications due to lymphoma. Jack was born in Portland, OR, on Jan. 16, 1935, to Antonio (George) and Nancy Fazio. The oldest of seven children, Jack farmed with his father, brothers, and extended family with Columbia Gardens, which was located where the Portland International Airport now sits. In the U.S. Army, he served as a Sergeant Tank Instructor from 1956 to 1958. In the mid 1950's, Jack and his brothers, Albert and Joe, moved to Vancouver, WA to farm property on Lower River Road near Vancouver Lake. Here they raised cabbage, potatoes and livestock. Later, the brothers formed Fazio Brothers Sand Company and were joined by brother, Richard. Jack attended Parkrose Grade School and Central Catholic High School, both in Portland, OR. He was a member of the Central Catholic Oregon State Championship football teams of 1952-1953. He spoke fondly of his days at Central Catholic. He was an avid sports fan and enjoyed going to University of Portland athletic events. In 1956, Jack met Anita Rebagliati from Varazze, Italy. Anita came from the same hometown in Italy as his father. They married at St. Charles Catholic Church, in Portland, in 1959. They would have been married for 48 years this September 26th. In 1960, they had their first child, Anna Marie. Six years later they had Marc Antonio.
(edit) photo of jack fazio attached
more at
http://www.columbian.com/obituaries/obitResults.cfm?date=09/7/2007
I don't know when they started the Sand Co, but suspect it may have been around the 1974 dredging..or before?
(people on the other side of the Columbia started selling sand from dredge spoils on their side also, as a result of that dredging. I have posted about that before).
Here's some data from Jack Fazio's obit:
Jack Zanobi Fazio died September 3, 2007, at the age of 72, from complications due to lymphoma. Jack was born in Portland, OR, on Jan. 16, 1935, to Antonio (George) and Nancy Fazio. The oldest of seven children, Jack farmed with his father, brothers, and extended family with Columbia Gardens, which was located where the Portland International Airport now sits. In the U.S. Army, he served as a Sergeant Tank Instructor from 1956 to 1958. In the mid 1950's, Jack and his brothers, Albert and Joe, moved to Vancouver, WA to farm property on Lower River Road near Vancouver Lake. Here they raised cabbage, potatoes and livestock. Later, the brothers formed Fazio Brothers Sand Company and were joined by brother, Richard. Jack attended Parkrose Grade School and Central Catholic High School, both in Portland, OR. He was a member of the Central Catholic Oregon State Championship football teams of 1952-1953. He spoke fondly of his days at Central Catholic. He was an avid sports fan and enjoyed going to University of Portland athletic events. In 1956, Jack met Anita Rebagliati from Varazze, Italy. Anita came from the same hometown in Italy as his father. They married at St. Charles Catholic Church, in Portland, in 1959. They would have been married for 48 years this September 26th. In 1960, they had their first child, Anna Marie. Six years later they had Marc Antonio.
(edit) photo of jack fazio attached
more at
http://www.columbian.com/obituaries/obitResults.cfm?date=09/7/2007
georger 197
QuoteThere is a very good presentation on the hydrology of Vancouver lake at:
http://www.cityofvancouver.us/PublicWorks/vancouverlake/MapsMaterials/ClarkCountyVLWP03162005.pdf
interestingly it shows Lake River (the NE outlet) to have bidirectional flow from the Columbia, which I didn't realize.
There is good data there, including current pollutants (fecal colliform, PCBs)
from page 17
Hydrology is controlled by the stage of the Columbia River
April to June- Columbia River rises due to snowmelt, highest water levels mid-June; flow in Lake River is typically south into the lake
June to July - lake level drops rapidly; flow in Lake River is to the north carrying water away from the lake
July to November - Lake remains at a low level; flow in Lake River reverses daily.
page 16
October - Lowest lake and tributary levels; Lake river reverses daily due to tidal fluctuations
November to February - level level rises to intermediate levels as BBC and SC flows increase rapidly; Lake River reverses flow for days at a time
January - Tributary flows peak in January and lake water is dominated by flows other than the Columbia River.
page 11 notes extensive stormwater drainage from the NE and could be examined for alternate flow paths if so inclined (Salmon Creek Watershed)
Ron Wierenga is the author (Clark County Public Works)
(edit)
another quick overview, which also mentions the dredge/channel work that was done at Vancouver Lake in late '70s/early '80s
http://www.clark.wa.gov/water-resources/documents/Stream%20Health%20Report/Vancouver%20Lake.pdf
REPLY> There you have it. Two of the docs I reviewed before posting. You will notice it says:
"Hydrology of Vancouver Lake ... controled by stage of the Columbia".
Here is a photo of the 1996 flood at Vancouver-Portland. Another of river debris
(silt) of the kind found aty T Bar.
Be very clear about the dredging of Vc Lake. I know
where you are already leaping to. THERE WAS NO
DREDGING OF VANCOUVER LAKE IN THE 70'S that I could find. It was after (long after) Ingrams find in 80. I checked.
Good luck -
snowmman 3
Quote
Taking something here and there and not a FULL study - well, forget it - this is totally boring and not gaining any ground in anyway toward solving this. The time needs to be spent getting facts...about the levels , activities, floods - a full calendar of events from 1971 to 1980. Also pictures for each yr of the beach - if possible.
Not boring to me, Jo. For instance:
You confuse me.
If Duane was Cooper who cares about 1971-1979. You should only care about 1979 thru 1980?
Are you saying there's some data, other than the 1974 dredging, in the 1971-1979 time period, that will help prove Duane threw the money in the river in 1979?
You've said Duane threw it in, upriver in the Columbia, in an already decomposed state from being buried, in 1979?
It's also unclear why you care about people in houses that got flooded (supposedly) near Tina Bar. What difference would that make to your story, other than maybe highlighting water levels at some point in time?
snowmman 3
Quote
georger wrote:
Here is a photo of the 1996 flood at Vancouver-Portland. Another of river debris
(silt) of the kind found aty T Bar.
Thanks for the Vancouver Lake '96 flood photo.
I've posted before about the '96 flooding effect from the Caterpillar Island/Columbia River side. Supposedly it flooded up to Lower River Rd. I was focused on Caterpillar Island being covered at that time.
There are two Lower River Rds. (one closer to the Columbia, one farther). I'm not sure which one the water level rose to.
(edit) I'd still like to know what other junk got dug up during the FBI dig at the Ingram site. Surely it couldn't have been "nothing else"...I'm talking litter.
.QuoteJo, if you don't know where the Fazio Bros. Sand Company gets their sand from, I'm really confused about how you can have such strong opinions about data around the money find site. It's like you're only watching one channel
What I am saying is that it is not important in the scheme of things. I do not fill my mind with the trivia - I keep to the basics and that is enough to keep up with. The fact that they owned a sand company is not relevant to the story.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteBe very clear about the dredging of Vc Lake. I know
where you are already leaping to. THERE WAS NO
DREDGING OF VANCOUVER LAKE IN THE 70'S that I could find. It was after (long after) Ingrams find in 80. I checked.
Wondered how long it would take you to find that. All you had to do was ask Safecrack.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Just an example of how natural tributaries are not the only water source. Storm drains, or even sewers can contribute.
Once you start talking about water movement, the possibilities are pretty endless.
4/19/2005
http://www.clark.wa.gov/news/news-release.asp?pkNewsSeq=574
Sewage contamination found at Frenchman’s Bar
Public advised to use caution if using Columbia River beaches
Vancouver, WA—Responding to a call from the Washington State Department of Ecology (Ecology), staff from the Clark County Health Department yesterday found numerous accumulations of sewer grease on the shore between the Vancouver Lake flushing channel and the north end of Frenchman's Bar. Vancouver-Clark Parks and Recreation also investigated the beach area and found two syringes, some plastic hygiene products, and other materials associated with sewage releases. Samples of the material have been collected for testing.
Ecology and Health Department staff are investigating the possibility of sewage contamination along other areas of the Columbia River while trying to determine the source or sources of the problem. ...
On Friday, the city of Camas reported that a clogged city sewer line had resulted in a sewage release into the Columbia River. Although the line was repaired last Friday, the discharge may have taken place over a period of 10 days. A connection between this spill and sewage at Frenchman’s bar has not been determined, but Health Department officials are watching for sewage on downstream beaches.
Once you start talking about water movement, the possibilities are pretty endless.
4/19/2005
http://www.clark.wa.gov/news/news-release.asp?pkNewsSeq=574
Sewage contamination found at Frenchman’s Bar
Public advised to use caution if using Columbia River beaches
Vancouver, WA—Responding to a call from the Washington State Department of Ecology (Ecology), staff from the Clark County Health Department yesterday found numerous accumulations of sewer grease on the shore between the Vancouver Lake flushing channel and the north end of Frenchman's Bar. Vancouver-Clark Parks and Recreation also investigated the beach area and found two syringes, some plastic hygiene products, and other materials associated with sewage releases. Samples of the material have been collected for testing.
Ecology and Health Department staff are investigating the possibility of sewage contamination along other areas of the Columbia River while trying to determine the source or sources of the problem. ...
On Friday, the city of Camas reported that a clogged city sewer line had resulted in a sewage release into the Columbia River. Although the line was repaired last Friday, the discharge may have taken place over a period of 10 days. A connection between this spill and sewage at Frenchman’s bar has not been determined, but Health Department officials are watching for sewage on downstream beaches.
Quote
If Duane was Cooper who cares about 1971-1979. You should only care about 1979 thru 1980?
This is ridiculous - I have to be able to look at all of the possiblities - it is NOT a matter of what I believe or KNOW. But, a matter of proving it to everyone else. QuoteYou've said Duane threw it in, upriver in the Columbia, in an already decomposed state from being buried, in 1979?
to do that I have to explore everything possible. QuoteIt's also unclear why you care about people in houses that got flooded (supposedly) near Tina Bar. What difference would that make to your story, other than maybe highlighting water levels at some point in time?
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
I NEVER said the cabin was even remotely close to Tena's Bar. It was across from the airport and West of the airport on the Vancouver side. The importance of this cabin is simply because it is the place Duane went to and stayed down at the Columbia for a long time opening and closing the trunk of the car - and it was after this that we went to the motel on the river where he threw a paper sack into the Columbia. There was a short stop between were the cabin used to be and the motel. This appeared to be an industrial site - there was a big tank there and a dock beside it in 1979. I do not remember what the name of the business was or what it's purpose was - but Duane knew...and he talked about it - I thought it an ODD stop. At this stop we were right down on the river..like at a loading dock of some kind.
Hence the REASON for knowing who owned the house and what that business was - both prior to our going to the hotel at the bridge in Vancouver where he threw the 
damn sack into the water. Now you got me saying bad words and that is not me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 20
Would it make sense to assume that the entire bag arrived at T Bar and that the other bundles were found earlier by someone who kept their mouth shut? Is it possible that the money Ingram later found could have been near the other earlier found money, but not seen? I know we have zero facts about where the rest of the money went but what is the most likely explanation? Did it get swept further downstream? Was it ever at T Bar?
Can you imagine the agony if Cooper survived, but lost the bag in the jump? Talk about a bad day... Gives a double meaning to the word "loser"...
Can you imagine the agony if Cooper survived, but lost the bag in the jump? Talk about a bad day... Gives a double meaning to the word "loser"...
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteWould it make sense to assume that the entire bag arrived at T Bar and that the other bundles were found earlier by someone who kept their mouth shut? Is it possible that the money Ingram found could have been near the other money, but not found?
It's a reasonable theory, I think. As reasonable as any other theory proposed. There's no way to discount it.
I think people have a hard time accepting that it's not going to be possible to prove anything about the money find. The money find can be used to maybe help find Cooper. But the circumstances preclude proving anything.
We could know everything about the hydrology in the area from '71 to '80 and it won't prove anything.
It still could have been planted or some of the money taken by someone, as you say.
I actually like the idea that someone using the alias Dan Cooper, would also be tickled by the idea of planting money at Tina Bar, especially if it could be timed to within a year of Himmelsbach's retirement. But that's just me.
(edit) But then I also like the idea of Cooper losing the money, since that might have been a contributor to not getting caught. (no money suspicions).
georger 197
QuoteQuote
georger wrote:
Here is a photo of the 1996 flood at Vancouver-Portland. Another of river debris
(silt) of the kind found aty T Bar.
Thanks for the Vancouver Lake '96 flood photo.
I've posted before about the '96 flooding effect from the Caterpillar Island/Columbia River side. Supposedly it flooded up to Lower River Rd. I was focused on Caterpillar Island being covered at that time.
There are two Lower River Rds. (one closer to the Columbia, one farther). I'm not sure which one the water level rose to.
(edit) I'd still like to know what other junk got dug up during the FBI dig at the Ingram site. Surely it couldn't have been "nothing else"...I'm talking litter.
REPLY> All good questions. I dont have the answers.
For the record, I am not even sure there were any floods in this area between '71 and 80. All I do know
is there is a hydrological mechanism for delivering
debris into the area of Tina Bar from the Columbia.
That does not prove it happened that way. Joe is
correct. Data on water levels et cetera are vital, in
any event.
Maybe the Fazio's cows made quick work of the money! 377 would like that... (laughing) But if the area is visited regularly then perhaps the money only arrived during high water or dredging and was buried
when nobody could see it, then erosion exposes it later.
Cooper? Call home!
georger 197
QuoteQuoteBe very clear about the dredging of Vc Lake. I know
where you are already leaping to. THERE WAS NO
DREDGING OF VANCOUVER LAKE IN THE 70'S that I could find. It was after (long after) Ingrams find in 80. I checked.
Wondered how long it would take you to find that. All you had to do was ask Safecrack.
REPLY> And Safecracking is not here.
georger 197
QuoteJust an example of how natural tributaries are not the only water source. Storm drains, or even sewers can contribute.
REPLY> Correct. This is why I keep using the word watershed and posted charts of the watershed ....
And if Cooper had not supposedly tied the money around his waste but had been holding it by hand, I could see him losing it right on the steps as he jumped . The money gets hung up on the steps and falls slightly later over the Portland-Vacouver watershed then flows to Tina Bar later.
georger 197
I think people have a hard time accepting that it's not going to be possible to prove anything about the money find.
REPLY> What people have a hard time accepting is that
no forensics was done on the money or the soil and no
sample kept - in a major case with International Implications! That was mashuganah even for the 70's
and early 80's. Pure rank incompetence.
REPLY> What people have a hard time accepting is that
no forensics was done on the money or the soil and no
sample kept - in a major case with International Implications! That was mashuganah even for the 70's
and early 80's. Pure rank incompetence.
Quote
What people have a hard time accepting is that
no forensics was done on the money or the soil and no
sample kept - in a major case with International Implications! That was mashuganah even for the 70's
and early 80's. Pure rank incompetence.
BUT, the FBI has some of the money - why haven't they released those for anaylsis - todays technology might have something there. Seems they would have kept soil samples just incase they needed to revisit the site for future needs.
Do you know for a fact that they have not run more tests on the money and that no soil samples were kept? ASK CKRET?
REASON for knowing who owned the house and what that business was - both prior to our going to the hotel at the bridge in Vancouver where he threw the sack into the water. 
I believe that he did not just get to that cabin by coincidence - I think he knew who owned it. Maybe it was the caretaker for the old house in LaCames or the man who owned the Dollar Corner Tavern - just a couple of guesses. Maybe the man who owned it is one of the many names I have mentioned to the FBI in the past?
I will need access to the county tax record for just one day to find that information. I may not know the address of the cabin but I know about where it was - there were not that many cabins on the river at that time.
Finding businesses for that time period will be a piece of cake if they owned the property - if they leased it - that is a different story.
Remember I am a retired real estate agent and record searches are not a problem. If I had access to plated maps from 1971 I could do it from here. Then it is a matter of asking or paying a county clerk to access the archives on the land...just like a title search.
CKRET ATTENTION: What will the FBI do if one of those names shows up on the county records?
Will they listen more carefully to me or continue to ignore me?
By the way it should not be difficult for you to find out who owned the Dollar Corner store in 1971 and all so who was running it. I dare you to do it - I do truely dare you to do it...then connect that name to DUANE WEBER - it can be done. This one is a fact...but I don't know what the connection was....the other place was a building in the same location, but across the street - antique store or such. The property owner of that one in 1971 and or the name of who was running a business in the location. One of these names will be something like Nutesell - Knutsel - knutesome or Knuteson.
Will really look bad for the FBI if I come out there in OCT and find what I need with just a few title searchs for 1971. If I connect those properties to anyone I have named - it spells conspiracy from day one a certain name comes up.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Ckret 0
Good work all on the hydrology effort.
I need to get a handle on how Cooper tied off the bag, so I thought I 'd toss out a challenge. We know the bag was a standard bank bag, I think they come in small, med and large, I am assuming he had a large bag.
Because of the money find, the neck of the bag must have been secured independently from the line used to secure the bag to himself. If not, when the bag separated from Cooper the line securing the neck of the bag would have come loose and the money would have spilled out.
So in my mined Cooper used one section of line to wrap around the neck of the bag and tied it off. He used the other section of line to wrap up the bag and form a loop with what was remaining, this according to the witness.
Cooper is now out of line, he only cut two sections I can't remember what I posted but it was either 14'2" and 14'3' or 15'2" and 15'3" (I'll have to find the post to be sure). So according to the witness Cooper had to have clipped the loop into the harness.
I think i have some shows lined up that are willing to investigate the case and i want to recreate the jump. This is an important part to test if the bag was ripped away upon leaving the aircraft.
So lets put our heads together and come up with our best guess as to how Cooper tied the bag. Or do you think I have pretty much figured it. if so, no need to put much more into it.
I need to get a handle on how Cooper tied off the bag, so I thought I 'd toss out a challenge. We know the bag was a standard bank bag, I think they come in small, med and large, I am assuming he had a large bag.
Because of the money find, the neck of the bag must have been secured independently from the line used to secure the bag to himself. If not, when the bag separated from Cooper the line securing the neck of the bag would have come loose and the money would have spilled out.
So in my mined Cooper used one section of line to wrap around the neck of the bag and tied it off. He used the other section of line to wrap up the bag and form a loop with what was remaining, this according to the witness.
Cooper is now out of line, he only cut two sections I can't remember what I posted but it was either 14'2" and 14'3' or 15'2" and 15'3" (I'll have to find the post to be sure). So according to the witness Cooper had to have clipped the loop into the harness.
I think i have some shows lined up that are willing to investigate the case and i want to recreate the jump. This is an important part to test if the bag was ripped away upon leaving the aircraft.
So lets put our heads together and come up with our best guess as to how Cooper tied the bag. Or do you think I have pretty much figured it. if so, no need to put much more into it.
Ckret 0
In regard to the bag and it's trip down the Columbia i think we are focusing on it from the wrong view. It seems as if folks are trying to envision the bag as making this trip on it's own through tributaries out into the Columbia and to Tina's/Tena's Bar. when things come out of tributaries they do so as "snags."
Things collect and eventually have enough mass to be forced out of the tributary. The bag was probably no different, it got caught up in a snag and when the snag became large enough it was pushed out into the Columbia. The bag didn't sink or float by itself, it drifted to Tina's Bar with the snag.
It lands at the beach, the action of the mass hitting land rips the bag, a few bundles fall out, the snag and bag continue on its journey.
Things collect and eventually have enough mass to be forced out of the tributary. The bag was probably no different, it got caught up in a snag and when the snag became large enough it was pushed out into the Columbia. The bag didn't sink or float by itself, it drifted to Tina's Bar with the snag.
It lands at the beach, the action of the mass hitting land rips the bag, a few bundles fall out, the snag and bag continue on its journey.
The brothers ran their cattle on that beach for water and they said there was NO WAY that the money was on that beach for more than a few days or a couple of weeks.
Farmers know their land.
REPLY> I agree farmers know their land.
Has Ckret talked to the Fazios to document this?
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