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quade

DB Cooper

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Bob, go back in the "witness Protection" program you were telling years ago!!!! your story is old and tired........
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Bob, go back in the "witness Protection" program you were telling years ago!!!! your story is old and tired........



Like a broken record, over and over. Facts are facts and they stay the same. Others could confirm that quote if they wanted to, but that would be telling a truth, which on this forum is something just short of miraculous. God forbid that anyone tells the secret.

You had it right when you speculated, "I noticed everyone claiming "someone" packed all 4 chutes? there was on 3 chutes that were functional, where did the 4th packed chute go? or did the dummy get in the mix up when delivering them?

Ckret also claims that the dummy chute had a white canopy in it, I thought they were filled with foam among other things. could the chute have been a working chute, and someone wrote dummy chute on it? just a thought...... "

I'll confirm the white canopy in the dummy chute, and Cossey did not pack it. I will also repeat that this is the chute Cooper used and he used it on his BACK! Listen to my words. This is the way it was.

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Hi out there in DB Cooper-Land,

1. The photos of the old guy wearing his Pioneer back pack emergency parachute shows the ripcord mounted on the left vertical harness webbing; commonly known as the Main Lift Web. This is the normal location for a ripcord handle on an emergency back pack parachute. When developed the thought was that the ripcord would be pulled by using your right hand with an 'across the chest' pull. It could just as easily be pulled by using one's left hand. Anyone who is dicussing the 'right hand' vs 'left hand' simply does not know anything about parachutes.

I always tell pilots to use both hands, if possible. As a former skydiver, I would probably just do a left-hand inboard pull.

2. Cossey had restored an Edsel and belonged to some type of Edsel club. He told me about this in a tele-con a number of years ago.

It just amazes me how some of you carry on and on about issues that you know nothing about.

JerryBaumchen

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Georger, Mrshutter, Smokin99, and the Poster Who Must Not Be Named,

This is to tie up another loose end on the Cossey connection to the Cooper parachutes.

In Bruce Smith's article on the Hayden parachute(s), a picture of the packing card is included. It gives a date of May 21, 1971 as the last packing date prior to the hijacking on November 24, 1971 and the packer was Cossey.

In the 1971 time frame, emergency back parachutes had to be repacked ever 60 days I think it was. It could have been each 90 days. In either event, the Hayden parachute was either 4 months and 3 days or 3 months and 3 days overdue for a repacking.

Tosaw's book quotes Tina as seeing Cooper pull out a packing card and looking at it. If Cooper did this for both back packs, then he may have rejected the Hayden parachute because it was way overdue for a repack.

Cossey was required to keep logs of his repacking activities. If the logs for the 1971 time frame are still available, and I'll bet he kept them, then information on his repacking/repair/modification activities are in them.

After a suitable period of time, perhaps someone with some social graces, and this probably rules out Blevins, Jo, and Bruce, could contact the Cossey family through someone acquainted with them and check the information on his parachute activities in 1971.

Robert99

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Hi out there in DB Cooper-Land,

1. The photos of the old guy wearing his Pioneer back pack emergency parachute shows the ripcord mounted on the left vertical harness webbing; commonly known as the Main Lift Web. This is the normal location for a ripcord handle on an emergency back pack parachute. When developed the thought was that the ripcord would be pulled by using your right hand with an 'across the chest' pull. It could just as easily be pulled by using one's left hand. Anyone who is dicussing the 'right hand' vs 'left hand' simply does not know anything about parachutes.

I always tell pilots to use both hands, if possible. As a former skydiver, I would probably just do a left-hand inboard pull.

2. Cossey had restored an Edsel and belonged to some type of Edsel club. He told me about this in a tele-con a number of years ago.

It just amazes me how some of you carry on and on about issues that you know nothing about.

JerryBaumchen



You need to take a look at the Australian parachute link that Mrshutter earlier today. Also there is some good information from the early skydiving days.

I completely agree with your last sentence above.

Robert99

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Nobody repacked the dummy chute.



That figures since it wasn't really a parachute.



couple weeks ago it had 3 X's on it....back to one again.....


round and round we go, where Bob's BS stops, nobody knooooooowssss....
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Georger, Mrshutter, Smokin99, and the Poster Who Must Not Be Named,

This is to tie up another loose end on the Cossey connection to the Cooper parachutes.

In Bruce Smith's article on the Hayden parachute(s), a picture of the packing card is included. It gives a date of May 21, 1971 as the last packing date prior to the hijacking on November 24, 1971 and the packer was Cossey.

In the 1971 time frame, emergency back parachutes had to be repacked ever 60 days I think it was. It could have been each 90 days. In either event, the Hayden parachute was either 4 months and 3 days or 3 months and 3 days overdue for a repacking.

Tosaw's book quotes Tina as seeing Cooper pull out a packing card and looking at it. If Cooper did this for both back packs, then he may have rejected the Hayden parachute because it was way overdue for a repack.

Cossey was required to keep logs of his repacking activities. If the logs for the 1971 time frame are still available, and I'll bet he kept them, then information on his repacking/repair/modification activities are in them.


Robert99



Exactly. Covered at length inthe old thread - and I was listening - Thanks! :D:D:D ... I had to listen/read cuz I know nada about para-chuutz.

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Robert, you need to learn how to post. you are once again directing your post to Meyer thru me..........



Fixed. What do you mean by 'where is Hayden's other chute?' I think it went out the door with Cooper...

You guys are making this more complicated than it really is. Read the PDF excerpt. Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later. Neither belonged to Cossey. He was just the person who packed them. The evidence is nearly overwhelming on this point. Hayden claims ownership forty years ago, via the PDF. He does the same thing in the Bruce Smith interview. The FBI and the courts agree, returning the second chute to Hayden later. What more do you need?



So you are saying nobody contacted Cossey?

You are saying when Cossey says "his", he is saying:
"I packed em". ??

Who put the chutes in a vehicle?

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Robert, you need to learn how to post. you are once again directing your post to Meyer thru me..........



Fixed. What do you mean by 'where is Hayden's other chute?' I think it went out the door with Cooper...

You guys are making this more complicated than it really is. Read the PDF excerpt. Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later. Neither belonged to Cossey. He was just the person who packed them. The evidence is nearly overwhelming on this point. Hayden claims ownership forty years ago, via the PDF. He does the same thing in the Bruce Smith interview. The FBI and the courts agree, returning the second chute to Hayden later. What more do you need?


So you are saying nobody contacted Cossey?

You are saying when Cossey says "his", he is saying:
"I packed em". ??

Who put the chutes in a vehicle?


PDF says Hayden put them into a taxicab himself, going from Kent, WA to be delivered. Cossey isn't from Kent, but Hayden is. I think the PDF excerpt is probably accurate. I will attach the PDF again, so no one has to go back and look for it.


We all know the pdf Robert - no need to post it 1
million more times!

You didn't answer the other questions -

There is a long well-developed story in this thread
posted several times way back, where Cossey throws
the chutes in his car and drives to meet a police
officer or the WHP, and that person takes the chutes
to wherever ..

It's good that we are weeding through pdf's and stories
so whale-kind and dolphin-kind will know, when they
take over the case on Dec 22nd 2025!
:S

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Tried reading all the postings but does anyone know what the Authorities have disclosed regarding the homicide?

Feel too badly to try to keep up with all that is going one, but please post any new you guys get regarding the homicide in Woodinville.

Remember I can not view videos or pdf. I believe it was Mrshutter who sent me a format I could read - so if anyone has chute information I would appreciate it.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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The only question I have on this whole scenario is WHY the FBI would go to Cossey on the Amboy chute, (or any of the other occasional finds they have brought to him for identification) and not consult Hayden, who was probably the actual owner of the original chutes. This part doesn't make sense to me. At the very least, you would think both men would be included in such attempted identifications.



How do you know they didn't? It's been noted via media accounts and on here via Carr that the FBI consulted others besides Cossey. One post specifically said two others.

Maybe you should google "Master Rigger" in order to partly answer your question. Cossey might have been consulted, not only for his knowledge of the Cooper chutes, but also for his knowledge of fabric and chutes in general....just sayin.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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The PDF document being discussed here is itself in doubt regarding its truthfulness.

The files as written are not accurate.

Hayden told me that he never spoke to anyone from the FBI about the chutes. He was not interviewed or questioned about the chutes at any time in the Norjak investigation, and he does not know who crafted this document, nor does the document tell us who wrote it and when.

Further, I read the document to Norman at his office and he was very surprised by its contents. He disputes the notion that one of the chutes he provided was a military sage-green, 28-foot canopy.

He claims that both of his parachutes that he sent off to Flight 305 were identical. He repeatedly stated that throughout my interview with him.

However, Norman Hayden's statements are also under question as well. After I posted my story on Hayden, the Mountain News received two emails from an individual calling herself Marianne Hayden, and she said that Norman only owned one of the chutes and that the other was owned by her brother, who also had the delivery receipt from NWO.

Yet, Marianne refuses to discuss this issue with me directly. She did not respond to my emails and she has chosen not to give me her phone number.

More troubling, Norman will not discuss this kafuffle with me. He abruptly ceased all communications with me when I left messages about the information Marianne was sharing.

Further, Marianne may be simply a wacko or an agent provocateur - she could be Bob Knoss for instance, or even Cossey, or a DBC puppet master throwing a monkey-wrench into this discussion.

When we last spoke, Norman asked me not to contact any more on this story because he was intimidated by the crude remarks uttered by Earl Cossey. Norman said he was afraid of being socially embarrassed.

I am surprised by Norman's bashfulness. I thought he was made of sterner stuff.

Nevertheless, Sail has formed a separate channel to Norman, so we may learn more about this shortly.

Also, Sail told me that Norman told him that Norman’s Pioneer is now in Tacoma at the Washington State Historical Museum and will be part of their DB Cooper exhibit in August.

I have encouraged Sail to encourage WSHM to inspect the chute. Perhaps soon they will have a large media day with the chute and we can all see it, inspect mfg labels, and trade stories – or craft new ones designed to drive our favorite DZ targets absolutely nuts.

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The five scenarios I proposed were not wild speculations. They are the same things the cops will investigate. I liked your reference in a later post saying I must be a proctologist. Well...if I were, you would be my first patient and I would gladly remove the stick for you. :S

____________________________________________

Blevins, that's funny, I LOL. Speaking of proctologists, my proctologist is really weird -- he makes me bend over and he goes "ahhhh."

Whoa Columbo, slow up, you've already got the case solved.

MeyerLouie
____________________________________________

Not that you would actually go anyway, but I'm withdrawing my offer on the camping trip/video up to the High Lake. I can only take so many insults before I decide I'd rather not hang out with someone personally...

____________________________________________

Say it isn't so, Blevins. You mean we're not going to sit around the campfire and sing "Cum By Ya"? Now, you're digging deep, you really know how to hurt a guy. Why can't everyone just get along?

MeyerLouie

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All this discussion points to a new issue - exactly what kind of chute did DB Cooper use in his getaway?

Secondly, why is there so much uncertainty about this question?

Further, what does that say about the FBI's investigatory skills and record-keeping capabilities?

As the Cossey homicide investigation intensifies, the image of the FBI becomes more tarnished.

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Blevins wrote:

You guys are making this more complicated than it really is. Read the PDF excerpt. Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later. Neither belonged to Cossey. He was just the person who packed them. The evidence is nearly overwhelming on this point. Hayden claims ownership forty years ago, via the PDF. He does the same thing in the Bruce Smith interview. The FBI and the courts agree, returning the second chute to Hayden later. What more do you need?



_____________________________________________

Blevins, you're making good sense here, that's my take on it too.

MeyerLouie

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Was I the only one who noticed the Edsel in his garage? The news footage showed one that looked like new.

I don't think anybody would kill for a mint Edsel, but if was a Shelby Cobra I might have a different opinion.

377



**************

Nope, you weren't the only one to spot the cherry Edsel. That leads to another question - how did Coss afford it? Nice house that was well-landscaped, and big toys - all on a teacher's salary? Yes, his wife had one, too, but...I was surprsied to see the wealth that was refelcted in the home.

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LOL....I'm starting to agree with the more than two back packs scenario. It was Thanksgiving Eve, they were calling every Tom, Dick, and Harry that they could to find parachutes and probably ended up with more than they needed. Maybe everyone is telling the truth as they know it.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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*Coughs politely*

I'm sure Bruce Smith doesn't mind someone copy/pasted over all the pictures from his copyrighted article? Maybe he's okay with that? I hope so. :)



this page falls under educational, research and criticism. the fair use clause on pictures would fit this category

the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

I used a similar clause when the DMCA took a video down of mine on You Tube several years ago. I took 4 seconds of someones audio that he reversed and explained how he did it. this fell under the criticism clause.


********

I do mind. That said, I allow - and support - tha fair use doctrine, as elucidated above. I must add, however, that I always expect my work to be accredited. That means my name and where the work was obtained, such as the Mountain News, be posted.

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BK wrote:

I'll confirm the white canopy in the dummy chute, and Cossey did not pack it. I will also repeat that this is the chute Cooper used and he used it on his BACK! Listen to my words. This is the way it was.



____________________________________________

So, is it a dummy chute or not? I thought dummy chute meant training chute, stuffed with foam -- not useable. If it had a canopy, then wouldn't that make it a legit, useable chute? So, what is it? This double talk gets so confusing. I wished the experts (in parachutes and skydiving) would jump in (no pun intended) more often and clarify when we're wrong and when we're not.

MeyerLouie

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Blevins wrote:

... Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later.
_____________________________________________

Blevins, you're making good sense here, that's my take on it too.

MeyerLouie



****************

Sadly this is incorrect. The descriptions of the chutes given in the document do not come from Norman Hayden. He denies making them and says they are not accurate.

As far as I can determine, we do not know who offered these descriptions.

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*Coughs politely*

I'm sure Bruce Smith doesn't mind someone copy/pasted over all the pictures from his copyrighted article? Maybe he's okay with that? I hope so. :)



this page falls under educational, research and criticism. the fair use clause on pictures would fit this category

the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

I used a similar clause when the DMCA took a video down of mine on You Tube several years ago. I took 4 seconds of someones audio that he reversed and explained how he did it. this fell under the criticism clause.


********

I do mind. That said, I allow - and support - tha fair use doctrine, as elucidated above. I must add, however, that I always expect my work to be accredited. That means my name and where the work was obtained, such as the Mountain News, be posted.


I did credit the picture of Hayden from the Mountain news B|

I take it from the way they are searching they don't have a murder weapon?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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BK wrote:

I'll confirm the white canopy in the dummy chute, and Cossey did not pack it. I will also repeat that this is the chute Cooper used and he used it on his BACK! Listen to my words. This is the way it was.



____________________________________________

So, is it a dummy chute or not? I thought dummy chute meant training chute, stuffed with foam -- not useable. If it had a canopy, then wouldn't that make it a legit, useable chute? So, what is it? This double talk gets so confusing. I wished the experts (in parachutes and skydiving) would jump in (no pun intended) more often and clarify when we're wrong and when we're not.

MeyerLouie

his post a year ago claimed that Coopers boots were in the chute with the X on it. 2 or 3 weeks ago the chute had 3 X's on it.....
another post he claims it might of been in another chute????? on and on and ooooooooooooooon....B|
Bob sets my meter off all the way down South
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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