georger 197 #39676 April 28, 2013 QuoteHi georger, QuoteHe was a very friendly man and had a great sense of humor. He always had us laughing. How true. He was just a fun guy to be around. I cannot begin to number the contests that Earl & I competed in back in the 60's - 70's. He was always upbeat, whether he was winning or not. I have not seen him in ~20+ years but we would occasionally talk on the phone. Blues skies, Coss. JerryBaumchen Well I think I appreciate his humor (and the arduous reasons for it) if nobody else does. The man had the patience of Job, imho. Can you clarify anything about all of these chutes and where and who they came from, that were collected by somebody to be given to DB Cooper? If I understand this: we have 4 chutes from Coss (2 front + 2 back packs). Then 2 chutes from Hayden ? (Of Hayden's 2 chutes someone says one of those belonged to Hayden's brother!)... Thanks. G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #39677 April 28, 2013 Quote- - - have I made this all clear!? - - - Yes. Now if we could only get Jo and Blevins to write with such clarity. But sci-fi and fiction buffs apparently only believe their own writings. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #39678 April 28, 2013 Quote Quote - - - have I made this all clear!? - - - Yes. Now if we could only get Jo and Blevins to write with such clarity. But sci-fi and fiction buffs apparently only believe their own writings. Robert99 Im going to take a shower - Im all sweaty! Actually got the kitchen floor scrubbed and waxed during all of this... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39679 April 28, 2013 Quote After many attempts to decipher and render order from Bruce's article, I gave up! See it here: http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachute The controversy (if there is one!) starts here: "But author Geoffrey Gray states that the two back parachutes were owned by a Kent, Washington businessman named Norman George Hayden, and that Mr. Cossey only inspected and packed the parachutes for Mr. Hayden.This parachute owned by Norman Hayden is now the center of a DB Cooper controversy. In addition, Gray cites a FBI document that specifically identifies Hayden as the owner of the back parachutes." [Note* says back packs .... not front reserves...]? I snipped the rest of what I had written to try and uncomplicate things ... Simplified: Front pack and Back pack. Question would the BACK pack ever be referred to as an emergency chute or reserve chute as Robert99 stated? I thought the emergency chute or reserve chute was the Front Pac. Guess Robert99 thinks so. The back pack is the main chute...damn sure wouldn't be an emergency chute....and reserve in other subjects mean alterative or back-up or a force set aside.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbeau23 0 #39680 April 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteThe news Bruce and Blevins didn't give you: http://q13fox.com/2013/04/27/homicide-leads-to-warning-for-nearby-residents/#axzz2RmG3jPoY http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/body_found_in_washington_home.html http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468172.php http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/26/2574781/king-county-detectives-investigate.html http://www.zoominfo.com/p/D.B.-Cooper/1277861813 Personal accounts: I can't believe this. Earl Cossey, a former junior high school teacher of mine in my hometown of Woodinville, Washington (an east side suburb outside Seattle) was found dead by his daughter last night in his garage. Police found head trauma and have declared as of today that the case is officially a homicide. Mr. Cossey was also a professional parachute jumper and was involved in the 1971 DB Cooper case. He was one of two men who supplied parachutes for the FBI to give to Cooper at Sea-Tac airport during the Thanksgiving Eve skyjacking. I had him in 7th grade for my Airsports class... where he taught us about the history and engineering of planes and rockets, and we built them as models. And he was so passionate when he told us his story about be being involved in the Cooper case. He also showed us the old 70's DB Cooper episode of "In Search Of" with Leonard Nimoy that also featured Cossey explaining the parachutes and Cooper's jump. He was a very friendly man and had a great sense of humor. He always had us laughing. My sisters and I are shocked by the news of this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. He will be truly missed. And I hope his killer is brought to justice soon! ------------------------------------------------------ I too was a student of Cossey at Leota Jr high, and I always thought that his Airsports class was the best elective of my primary education. He must have been around 25 then and funny genuine guy. He told the DB cooper story but I don't recall if he said it was him or one of two guys. What I do know is that he and his wife were both involved in education, if I remember correctly she was a counselor at the high school. I ended up becoming a pilot and just last year made my first jump.. He was actually the first guy I thought about after I landed because he just loved jumping. He offered any of the students to come down to the old Issaquah airfield (long gone) and watch jumping on the weekends.. I'm now retired from King County Sheriffs Office and I know that my friends there will find out who did this, cooper nut or just a scumbag.. Either way Coss did not deserve this nor did his family. In closing who really gives a s*it how many chutes who packed them or what color they were.. if DB cooper were alive, he would have come out and sold the rights to his book and movie when the statue of limitations was up.. Just like government cover ups, someone will always talk when there is money on the table RIP Coss, you were a good guy.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #39681 April 28, 2013 Quote Quote After many attempts to decipher and render order from Bruce's article, I gave up! See it here: http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachute The controversy (if there is one!) starts here: "But author Geoffrey Gray states that the two back parachutes were owned by a Kent, Washington businessman named Norman George Hayden, and that Mr. Cossey only inspected and packed the parachutes for Mr. Hayden.This parachute owned by Norman Hayden is now the center of a DB Cooper controversy. In addition, Gray cites a FBI document that specifically identifies Hayden as the owner of the back parachutes." [Note* says back packs .... not front reserves...]? I snipped the rest of what I had written to try and uncomplicate things ... Simplified: Front pack and Back pack. Question would the BACK pack ever be referred to as an emergency chute or reserve chute as Robert99 stated? I thought the emergency chute or reserve chute was the Front Pac. Guess Robert99 thinks so. The back pack is the main chute...damn sure wouldn't be an emergency chute....and reserve in other subjects mean alterative or back-up or a force set aside. Jo, Let me try to explain it to you again. And please READ this post. In the 1971 time frame, if you only had on one parachute it was always an "emergency" parachute and had to be packed by a certified rigger such as Cossey. In civilian aircraft, emergency parachutes were typically back packs or seat packs. And only one parachute was worn per crew member. However, in military aircraft, emergency parachutes could be either seat packs, back packs, or chest packs. The chest packs were usually quick-attach packs with the harness being worn continually and the parachute pack quickly attached to the harness by a couple of fasteners during an emergency. On aircraft with a large number of crew members, all three types of packs might be used. But each crew member only had one parachute. But when deliberate (non-emergency) parachute jumps were made in the early days of civilian aviation, two parachutes were used per person with both packed by a certified rigger. The military had its own regulations for such people as paratroopers. When skydiving became popular after WW2, the civilian rules were that only the reserve (usually the front pack) had to be packed by a certified rigger and the jumper (presumably after some instruction from someone) could pack the back pack. But to repeat again, "emergency parachutes" can be chest, seat, or back packs but the term usually means that the wearer only has on one parachute. In the present day of square canopies, I don't know if the "reserve" parachute (which is also worn on the back) has to be packed by a certified rigger or not. Perhaps 377, Amazon, or other current jumper can answer that question. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39682 April 28, 2013 Greetings All, I have updated my piece at the Mountain News on Coss, adding pictures. http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/04/27/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-earl-cossey-feared-dead-in-woodinville-homicide/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39683 April 28, 2013 I have also done some significant editing on my DBC parachuting story that I admit was filled with gobbilygook. It offers a more concise analysis of Coss' contributions to Norjak. The link to the revised story is below: http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39684 April 28, 2013 Quote LOL...none of you had a peep to say about those things. Check in time at (wait for it)...the Reality Hotel. I stand by every word I wrote about your post on another site. I'm not gonna repeat what I said and I'm not going to discuss this anymore with you, but suffice to say, at best, it was tasteless, and.....as I said before....rationalize it all you want....but if you can't see that - I don't know what to tell you. As for Georger's remarks, you're right, they were also tasteless. As for not mentioning anything about it, to be be honest, I didn't even read it the first go round. I tend to slide over any comments between you and Georger on this site. They are usually 3rd grade, tit for tat, absolute and utter nonsense that is not worth the time or the effort to read. Yeah, Georger and some others need to chill out with their Blevins derangement syndrome, but also consider this: One day, maybe you ought to read your posts. Since you've said, more than once, that you consider yourself a nice guy, no doubt you would be amazed at the way you come across on this forum. But on this too...I figure that will be when hell freezes over cause guys like you just don't get it. I'm done with this. Carry on.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39685 April 28, 2013 Quote Bruce Smith says in part: Quote 'In addition, speculation has run rampant over the possibility that this homicide might be linked to the DB Cooper investigation. Cossey has come under increasing attacks in recent years for his inconsistencies in describing his role in the skyjacking saga...' Come on, Bruce. It hasn't 'run rampant,' although it's been mentioned occasionally. I made a comment about it saying there ARE 'Cooper Nuts' out there and the cops should check Cossey's phone records, just in case. But that's a pretty remote possibility. Most of the comments I've seen on media are sympathy messages from people who knew Cossey when he was teaching middle school, or knew him when he was parachute-active. Let's not go overboard here. Chances are much greater it was something else. There have also been a rash of burglaries in the area. I was thinking maybe Cossey would like this song. I don't know why exactly. Just a thought. I hope the cops get to the bottom of this soon, and my sincerest sympathies to the family. As far as Georger and some of his comments on Cossey and his family, I think he might relate to this song instead...My cat Hobo and I agree. You should offer an apology. Quote I have received two phone calls from people associated with Norjak who are afraid for thier lives in the wake of Cossey's apparent murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobBurnham 0 #39686 April 28, 2013 Hi G, I was one of the mainstays at Issaquah when this DB Cooper thing happened. The TV crew was all over our clubhouse and I was packing a reserve and they filmed me and used it as backdrop for the story on the news. I almost lived at the clubhouse at the time, but I wasn't there the night all this went down, and it's been more than 40 years ago. What I remember hearing was that the WSP drove out to the clubhouse and picked up parachutes (must have been the reserves) and took them to the airport. Linn Emrich ? lived at the field and so he must have got them out of the equipment room. We had that prop reserve all sewn up so that when we had students practicing throwing it out that we didn't have a big mess to untangle every time. My memory is that there was so much material removed from it that it was obvious that it was fake. Linn would have known that, so that is one aspect of this that I don't understand. Coss did business with a lot of aircraft owners and packed their rigs for them both at home and at the club. So the backpacks must have come from him and may have been owned by the other guy in this story. That's all I can think. Coss was a great guy and will be missed. I really hope it turns out to be a mistake and this was all an accident, but it doesn't sound like it. I was looking for more information when I came across this thread, so I registered and couldn't resist adding some notes even if I don't really have a good recollection of the facts in this. Thanks, Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39687 April 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteTo whit: Cossey has maintained for four decades that he furnished the two back parachutes delivered to Sea-Tac airport on the night of November 24, 1971 as part of Cooper ransom package, but recently released FBI documents indicate that another person owned and delivered the parachutes, a Kent, WA pilot named Norman Hayden. This discrepancy now calls into question Cossey’s truthfulness and reliability. ........... Further, Cossey has never explained - as he has long-claimed – why he sent the two back chutes to Boeing Field first and not Sea-Tac where the skyjacker awaited. Did Cossey maintain all this or did it come from news reports? Just pulling up some archived news articles, I see a report that two of the chutes came from McChord AFB. My point being..... was it Cossey or inaccurate AP reports that just never got corrected? Or was he giving them the inaccurate info? I wonder if his assertion that he PACKED all four chutes just somehow got translated to he owned/delivered all of them or two of them and he just never called back to correct the matter. Not saying you're wrong -- maybe you've looked at all the articles that he's been quoted in to form your opinion. I will have to look at what he is actually attributed to having said versus what was "reported". According to CKRET, "Cossey actually packed all four chutes, the two back pack chutes were sold or given to the individual who sent them in the cab to Boeing field. Cossey also packed the reserve chutes, but they were provided not by Cossey but the owner of Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey discovered the mistake later on." Quote My notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39688 April 28, 2013 QuoteThe news Bruce and Blevins didn't give you: http://q13fox.com/2013/04/27/homicide-leads-to-warning-for-nearby-residents/#axzz2RmG3jPoY http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/body_found_in_washington_home.html http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468172.php http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/26/2574781/king-county-detectives-investigate.html http://www.zoominfo.com/p/D.B.-Cooper/1277861813 Personal accounts: I can't believe this. Earl Cossey, a former junior high school teacher of mine in my hometown of Woodinville, Washington (an east side suburb outside Seattle) was found dead by his daughter last night in his garage. Police found head trauma and have declared as of today that the case is officially a homicide. Mr. Cossey was also a professional parachute jumper and was involved in the 1971 DB Cooper case. He was one of two men who supplied parachutes for the FBI to give to Cooper at Sea-Tac airport during the Thanksgiving Eve skyjacking. I had him in 7th grade for my Airsports class... where he taught us about the history and engineering of planes and rockets, and we built them as models. And he was so passionate when he told us his story about be being involved in the Cooper case. He also showed us the old 70's DB Cooper episode of "In Search Of" with Leonard Nimoy that also featured Cossey explaining the parachutes and Cooper's jump. He was a very friendly man and had a great sense of humor. He always had us laughing. My sisters and I are shocked by the news of this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. He will be truly missed. And I hope his killer is brought to justice soon! ------------------------------------------------------ WHy the dis, Georger? What news did these other media sources give you that I didn't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39689 April 28, 2013 QuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39690 April 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Reposting to add pdf file on parachutesbut....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #39691 April 28, 2013 Nice find! very possible that Carr seen all of this confusion and said, that's it, I'm calling Cossey right now and put an end to this. wonder how the Beetles got mixed up in this had to say it....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39692 April 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39693 April 29, 2013 Robert99 states: Smokin99's remarks above include the statement that Ckret said the two back parachutes came from Cossey's house. Jo states: The 2 back pacs were delivered by Cossey or other sources. Quote That Statement was correct! Robert99 states: That is probably CORRECT. Most of the emergency parachute riggers I have known over the years DID operate from their houses. Jo States: Robert READ what you stated above. The front pac IS the emergency pac! Perhaps you made a mistake - but as far as I know the emergency pac (the front pacs) were NOT supplied by Cossey. This is exactly why this is case is so screwed up. He said and she said and journalist screwing up and posters making mistakes. So NOW U are trying to say the emergency front pacs were supplied by COSSEY! He was a man of a few CHOICE words and I can only imagine what he might have to say about this. The EMERGENCY FRONT PACS came from another location which I believe was McChord. When the front pacs were found they were delivered by courier, but it was my understanding they came from McChord or another location. The name of the young man who made the mistake was publicize, but long forgotten by me. Robert stated: Finally, Cossey packed all four of the parachutes. I see no problem with Cossey's connection with the parachutes. Jo States: ARE you POSITIVE Cossey packed all 4 chutes. You might shoot yourself in the foot on that one. There was a story about the emergency front pacs and the location from which they were retrived. The man mistakenly provided a dummy chute from the supply room - at a different location and that was not Cossey's home. Do not know who packed the front pac (emergency chutes). REPOSTED THIS POST BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING IN ERROR HERE AS ROBERT99 CLAIMED IN ANOTHER POST. If you have reliable information that disputes the above information - POST it!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39694 April 29, 2013 Quote Robert99 states: Smokin99's remarks above include the statement that Ckret said the two back parachutes came from Cossey's house. Jo states: The 2 back pacs were delivered by Cossey or other sources. Robert99 states: That is probably CORRECT. Most of the emergency parachute riggers I have known over the years DID operate from their houses. Jo States: Robert READ what you stated above. The front pac IS the emergency pac! Perhaps you made a mistake - but as far as I know the emergency pac (the front pacs) were NOT supplied by Cossey. This is exactly why this is case is so screwed up. He said and she said and journalist screwing up and posters making mistakes. So NOW U are trying to say the emergency front pacs were supplied by COSSEY! He was a man of a few CHOICE words and I can only imagine what he might have to say about this. When the front pacs were found they were delivered by courier, but it was my understanding they came from McChord or another location. The name of the young man who made the mistake was publicize, but long forgotten by me. Robert stated: Finally, Cossey packed all four of the parachutes. I see no problem with Cossey's connection with the parachutes. Jo States: ARE you POSITIVE Cossey packed all 4 chutes. You might shoot yourself in the foot on that one. There was a story about the emergency front pacs and the location from which they were retrived. The man mistakenly provided a dummy chute from the supply room - at a different location and that was not Cossey's home. Do not know who packed the front pac (emergency chutes). I have reposted the above post because there are NO errors in it.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39695 April 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #39696 April 29, 2013 jo here is the document in a form that you can read...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39697 April 29, 2013 QuoteAll the Cooper case PDF files from the FBI, the ones that are publicly available, are HERE. Yeah...for what it's worth. I've not been there in a while, but the last time I did there was not a lot of actual case files. Mainly a lot of newspaper clippings about the hijacking and stuff about the Fleming con. That site reminds me of looking at a pie and thinking, yum, yum, lemon meringue and then you bite into it and it's vanilla creme. What a downer.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39698 April 29, 2013 Quote Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them. I spoke to Hayden prior to my computer days and prior to 2000 about the chute. I have the notes I made and Cossey did NOT own both of those chutes. Hayden owned one or both. I also spoke with Cossey prior to 2000 and the original story is true - but over the yrs - be it age or ego's or the media - the history of the chutes got shuffled. Both Hayden and Cossey were very nice and what they told me goes right back to the original story, before too many childrens hands got into the cookie dough. I didn't know enough to ASK technical questions or specifics. The problem with the chute story is the general population nor the FBI have chute knowledge - and all of those hands in the dough contaminated the factual results. I have a tendancy to rely on the stories reported early on and the interviews I did during the first 5 yrs by phone with no knowledge of a computer. I didn't know the right questions to ask, but the ownership and delivery of the chutes match the things I was told in 1998 approx and they match the written reports from the early days as reported in Norjak and Tosaw's book and per phone conversations I had with Himmelsbach before the contaminations of age, media and memory were involved. The computer age has allowed individuals with NO information or elementary information to re-state and reclaim old stories and change the information without any repercussion. The motive of these individuals is usually just to be heard. For instance, I have been going around and around with a credit card company because of computer geeks without the experience. After the smoke inhalation I called a draft in for my payment - because of I forgot to drop it in the mail on time. Well, I get my bank statement and the draft had not been taken. Again I call the credit card company and she told me the draft went thru. I didn't understand the date and question her on this, but her information did not match mine. Then on SAT I get a call from the credit card company. I refused to give them information and then called back using the number on my statement. This person say my account was unpaid - I hit the ceiling in all of my 73 yrs I have never had a late payment. I gave her the ID number and transaction number for the draft and the initials of the employee. She said he had made an error. I told her that last wk I caught the error because it had not shown on my bank acct and that I had called and spoke to the 2ed person who assured me the draft was fine and had gone thru. I had to give them a second draft and I told them if BOTH drafts come against my account I will close the account! And they will reimburse me for the points I lost by not putting those charges on the account I had. In other words IT had better be right. I have never had a late payment in my life nor have I ever missed a payment. Watch it - I bet by the end of the wk my account will have been hit with 2 drafts (almost 500 each). I told her if that happened - they will reimburse me with a draft and not by check 30 days later and they will pay me interest. I also want written verification of their error. Computers and geeks and young people who do not know what is really going on - they just pust numbers and do not care if they cause problems for individuals. WELL, I will cancel that credit card after 35 yrs. Had I not have let him change the acct. this would never have happened.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39699 April 29, 2013 Quotejo here is the document in a form that you can read.... Well, I just read them and my memory is pretty DAMN good if this old woman has to say so her self. I had not seen the these FBI reports because I could never open them. Believe U me - I made copies of them and hope this is the END of the Chute arguments.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #39700 April 29, 2013 QuoteI spoke to Hayden prior to my computer days and prior to 2000 about the chute. I have the notes I made and Cossey did NOT own both of those chutes. Hayden owned one or both. Jo, The above is EXACTLY what everyone on this thread, including me, has been telling you all day. You really need to start reading the posts before claiming that someone is lying. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1583 1584 1585 1586 1587 1588 1589 1590 1591 1592 1593 Next Page 1588 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Robert99 37 #39681 April 28, 2013 Quote Quote After many attempts to decipher and render order from Bruce's article, I gave up! See it here: http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachute The controversy (if there is one!) starts here: "But author Geoffrey Gray states that the two back parachutes were owned by a Kent, Washington businessman named Norman George Hayden, and that Mr. Cossey only inspected and packed the parachutes for Mr. Hayden.This parachute owned by Norman Hayden is now the center of a DB Cooper controversy. In addition, Gray cites a FBI document that specifically identifies Hayden as the owner of the back parachutes." [Note* says back packs .... not front reserves...]? I snipped the rest of what I had written to try and uncomplicate things ... Simplified: Front pack and Back pack. Question would the BACK pack ever be referred to as an emergency chute or reserve chute as Robert99 stated? I thought the emergency chute or reserve chute was the Front Pac. Guess Robert99 thinks so. The back pack is the main chute...damn sure wouldn't be an emergency chute....and reserve in other subjects mean alterative or back-up or a force set aside. Jo, Let me try to explain it to you again. And please READ this post. In the 1971 time frame, if you only had on one parachute it was always an "emergency" parachute and had to be packed by a certified rigger such as Cossey. In civilian aircraft, emergency parachutes were typically back packs or seat packs. And only one parachute was worn per crew member. However, in military aircraft, emergency parachutes could be either seat packs, back packs, or chest packs. The chest packs were usually quick-attach packs with the harness being worn continually and the parachute pack quickly attached to the harness by a couple of fasteners during an emergency. On aircraft with a large number of crew members, all three types of packs might be used. But each crew member only had one parachute. But when deliberate (non-emergency) parachute jumps were made in the early days of civilian aviation, two parachutes were used per person with both packed by a certified rigger. The military had its own regulations for such people as paratroopers. When skydiving became popular after WW2, the civilian rules were that only the reserve (usually the front pack) had to be packed by a certified rigger and the jumper (presumably after some instruction from someone) could pack the back pack. But to repeat again, "emergency parachutes" can be chest, seat, or back packs but the term usually means that the wearer only has on one parachute. In the present day of square canopies, I don't know if the "reserve" parachute (which is also worn on the back) has to be packed by a certified rigger or not. Perhaps 377, Amazon, or other current jumper can answer that question. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #39682 April 28, 2013 Greetings All, I have updated my piece at the Mountain News on Coss, adding pictures. http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/04/27/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-earl-cossey-feared-dead-in-woodinville-homicide/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #39683 April 28, 2013 I have also done some significant editing on my DBC parachuting story that I admit was filled with gobbilygook. It offers a more concise analysis of Coss' contributions to Norjak. The link to the revised story is below: http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #39684 April 28, 2013 Quote LOL...none of you had a peep to say about those things. Check in time at (wait for it)...the Reality Hotel. I stand by every word I wrote about your post on another site. I'm not gonna repeat what I said and I'm not going to discuss this anymore with you, but suffice to say, at best, it was tasteless, and.....as I said before....rationalize it all you want....but if you can't see that - I don't know what to tell you. As for Georger's remarks, you're right, they were also tasteless. As for not mentioning anything about it, to be be honest, I didn't even read it the first go round. I tend to slide over any comments between you and Georger on this site. They are usually 3rd grade, tit for tat, absolute and utter nonsense that is not worth the time or the effort to read. Yeah, Georger and some others need to chill out with their Blevins derangement syndrome, but also consider this: One day, maybe you ought to read your posts. Since you've said, more than once, that you consider yourself a nice guy, no doubt you would be amazed at the way you come across on this forum. But on this too...I figure that will be when hell freezes over cause guys like you just don't get it. I'm done with this. Carry on.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #39685 April 28, 2013 Quote Bruce Smith says in part: Quote 'In addition, speculation has run rampant over the possibility that this homicide might be linked to the DB Cooper investigation. Cossey has come under increasing attacks in recent years for his inconsistencies in describing his role in the skyjacking saga...' Come on, Bruce. It hasn't 'run rampant,' although it's been mentioned occasionally. I made a comment about it saying there ARE 'Cooper Nuts' out there and the cops should check Cossey's phone records, just in case. But that's a pretty remote possibility. Most of the comments I've seen on media are sympathy messages from people who knew Cossey when he was teaching middle school, or knew him when he was parachute-active. Let's not go overboard here. Chances are much greater it was something else. There have also been a rash of burglaries in the area. I was thinking maybe Cossey would like this song. I don't know why exactly. Just a thought. I hope the cops get to the bottom of this soon, and my sincerest sympathies to the family. As far as Georger and some of his comments on Cossey and his family, I think he might relate to this song instead...My cat Hobo and I agree. You should offer an apology. Quote I have received two phone calls from people associated with Norjak who are afraid for thier lives in the wake of Cossey's apparent murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobBurnham 0 #39686 April 28, 2013 Hi G, I was one of the mainstays at Issaquah when this DB Cooper thing happened. The TV crew was all over our clubhouse and I was packing a reserve and they filmed me and used it as backdrop for the story on the news. I almost lived at the clubhouse at the time, but I wasn't there the night all this went down, and it's been more than 40 years ago. What I remember hearing was that the WSP drove out to the clubhouse and picked up parachutes (must have been the reserves) and took them to the airport. Linn Emrich ? lived at the field and so he must have got them out of the equipment room. We had that prop reserve all sewn up so that when we had students practicing throwing it out that we didn't have a big mess to untangle every time. My memory is that there was so much material removed from it that it was obvious that it was fake. Linn would have known that, so that is one aspect of this that I don't understand. Coss did business with a lot of aircraft owners and packed their rigs for them both at home and at the club. So the backpacks must have come from him and may have been owned by the other guy in this story. That's all I can think. Coss was a great guy and will be missed. I really hope it turns out to be a mistake and this was all an accident, but it doesn't sound like it. I was looking for more information when I came across this thread, so I registered and couldn't resist adding some notes even if I don't really have a good recollection of the facts in this. Thanks, Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #39687 April 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteTo whit: Cossey has maintained for four decades that he furnished the two back parachutes delivered to Sea-Tac airport on the night of November 24, 1971 as part of Cooper ransom package, but recently released FBI documents indicate that another person owned and delivered the parachutes, a Kent, WA pilot named Norman Hayden. This discrepancy now calls into question Cossey’s truthfulness and reliability. ........... Further, Cossey has never explained - as he has long-claimed – why he sent the two back chutes to Boeing Field first and not Sea-Tac where the skyjacker awaited. Did Cossey maintain all this or did it come from news reports? Just pulling up some archived news articles, I see a report that two of the chutes came from McChord AFB. My point being..... was it Cossey or inaccurate AP reports that just never got corrected? Or was he giving them the inaccurate info? I wonder if his assertion that he PACKED all four chutes just somehow got translated to he owned/delivered all of them or two of them and he just never called back to correct the matter. Not saying you're wrong -- maybe you've looked at all the articles that he's been quoted in to form your opinion. I will have to look at what he is actually attributed to having said versus what was "reported". According to CKRET, "Cossey actually packed all four chutes, the two back pack chutes were sold or given to the individual who sent them in the cab to Boeing field. Cossey also packed the reserve chutes, but they were provided not by Cossey but the owner of Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey discovered the mistake later on." Quote My notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39688 April 28, 2013 QuoteThe news Bruce and Blevins didn't give you: http://q13fox.com/2013/04/27/homicide-leads-to-warning-for-nearby-residents/#axzz2RmG3jPoY http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/body_found_in_washington_home.html http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468172.php http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/26/2574781/king-county-detectives-investigate.html http://www.zoominfo.com/p/D.B.-Cooper/1277861813 Personal accounts: I can't believe this. Earl Cossey, a former junior high school teacher of mine in my hometown of Woodinville, Washington (an east side suburb outside Seattle) was found dead by his daughter last night in his garage. Police found head trauma and have declared as of today that the case is officially a homicide. Mr. Cossey was also a professional parachute jumper and was involved in the 1971 DB Cooper case. He was one of two men who supplied parachutes for the FBI to give to Cooper at Sea-Tac airport during the Thanksgiving Eve skyjacking. I had him in 7th grade for my Airsports class... where he taught us about the history and engineering of planes and rockets, and we built them as models. And he was so passionate when he told us his story about be being involved in the Cooper case. He also showed us the old 70's DB Cooper episode of "In Search Of" with Leonard Nimoy that also featured Cossey explaining the parachutes and Cooper's jump. He was a very friendly man and had a great sense of humor. He always had us laughing. My sisters and I are shocked by the news of this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. He will be truly missed. And I hope his killer is brought to justice soon! ------------------------------------------------------ WHy the dis, Georger? What news did these other media sources give you that I didn't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39689 April 28, 2013 QuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39690 April 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Reposting to add pdf file on parachutesbut....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #39691 April 28, 2013 Nice find! very possible that Carr seen all of this confusion and said, that's it, I'm calling Cossey right now and put an end to this. wonder how the Beetles got mixed up in this had to say it....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #39692 April 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39693 April 29, 2013 Robert99 states: Smokin99's remarks above include the statement that Ckret said the two back parachutes came from Cossey's house. Jo states: The 2 back pacs were delivered by Cossey or other sources. Quote That Statement was correct! Robert99 states: That is probably CORRECT. Most of the emergency parachute riggers I have known over the years DID operate from their houses. Jo States: Robert READ what you stated above. The front pac IS the emergency pac! Perhaps you made a mistake - but as far as I know the emergency pac (the front pacs) were NOT supplied by Cossey. This is exactly why this is case is so screwed up. He said and she said and journalist screwing up and posters making mistakes. So NOW U are trying to say the emergency front pacs were supplied by COSSEY! He was a man of a few CHOICE words and I can only imagine what he might have to say about this. The EMERGENCY FRONT PACS came from another location which I believe was McChord. When the front pacs were found they were delivered by courier, but it was my understanding they came from McChord or another location. The name of the young man who made the mistake was publicize, but long forgotten by me. Robert stated: Finally, Cossey packed all four of the parachutes. I see no problem with Cossey's connection with the parachutes. Jo States: ARE you POSITIVE Cossey packed all 4 chutes. You might shoot yourself in the foot on that one. There was a story about the emergency front pacs and the location from which they were retrived. The man mistakenly provided a dummy chute from the supply room - at a different location and that was not Cossey's home. Do not know who packed the front pac (emergency chutes). REPOSTED THIS POST BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING IN ERROR HERE AS ROBERT99 CLAIMED IN ANOTHER POST. If you have reliable information that disputes the above information - POST it!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39694 April 29, 2013 Quote Robert99 states: Smokin99's remarks above include the statement that Ckret said the two back parachutes came from Cossey's house. Jo states: The 2 back pacs were delivered by Cossey or other sources. Robert99 states: That is probably CORRECT. Most of the emergency parachute riggers I have known over the years DID operate from their houses. Jo States: Robert READ what you stated above. The front pac IS the emergency pac! Perhaps you made a mistake - but as far as I know the emergency pac (the front pacs) were NOT supplied by Cossey. This is exactly why this is case is so screwed up. He said and she said and journalist screwing up and posters making mistakes. So NOW U are trying to say the emergency front pacs were supplied by COSSEY! He was a man of a few CHOICE words and I can only imagine what he might have to say about this. When the front pacs were found they were delivered by courier, but it was my understanding they came from McChord or another location. The name of the young man who made the mistake was publicize, but long forgotten by me. Robert stated: Finally, Cossey packed all four of the parachutes. I see no problem with Cossey's connection with the parachutes. Jo States: ARE you POSITIVE Cossey packed all 4 chutes. You might shoot yourself in the foot on that one. There was a story about the emergency front pacs and the location from which they were retrived. The man mistakenly provided a dummy chute from the supply room - at a different location and that was not Cossey's home. Do not know who packed the front pac (emergency chutes). I have reposted the above post because there are NO errors in it.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39695 April 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #39696 April 29, 2013 jo here is the document in a form that you can read...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #39697 April 29, 2013 QuoteAll the Cooper case PDF files from the FBI, the ones that are publicly available, are HERE. Yeah...for what it's worth. I've not been there in a while, but the last time I did there was not a lot of actual case files. Mainly a lot of newspaper clippings about the hijacking and stuff about the Fleming con. That site reminds me of looking at a pie and thinking, yum, yum, lemon meringue and then you bite into it and it's vanilla creme. What a downer.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39698 April 29, 2013 Quote Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them. I spoke to Hayden prior to my computer days and prior to 2000 about the chute. I have the notes I made and Cossey did NOT own both of those chutes. Hayden owned one or both. I also spoke with Cossey prior to 2000 and the original story is true - but over the yrs - be it age or ego's or the media - the history of the chutes got shuffled. Both Hayden and Cossey were very nice and what they told me goes right back to the original story, before too many childrens hands got into the cookie dough. I didn't know enough to ASK technical questions or specifics. The problem with the chute story is the general population nor the FBI have chute knowledge - and all of those hands in the dough contaminated the factual results. I have a tendancy to rely on the stories reported early on and the interviews I did during the first 5 yrs by phone with no knowledge of a computer. I didn't know the right questions to ask, but the ownership and delivery of the chutes match the things I was told in 1998 approx and they match the written reports from the early days as reported in Norjak and Tosaw's book and per phone conversations I had with Himmelsbach before the contaminations of age, media and memory were involved. The computer age has allowed individuals with NO information or elementary information to re-state and reclaim old stories and change the information without any repercussion. The motive of these individuals is usually just to be heard. For instance, I have been going around and around with a credit card company because of computer geeks without the experience. After the smoke inhalation I called a draft in for my payment - because of I forgot to drop it in the mail on time. Well, I get my bank statement and the draft had not been taken. Again I call the credit card company and she told me the draft went thru. I didn't understand the date and question her on this, but her information did not match mine. Then on SAT I get a call from the credit card company. I refused to give them information and then called back using the number on my statement. This person say my account was unpaid - I hit the ceiling in all of my 73 yrs I have never had a late payment. I gave her the ID number and transaction number for the draft and the initials of the employee. She said he had made an error. I told her that last wk I caught the error because it had not shown on my bank acct and that I had called and spoke to the 2ed person who assured me the draft was fine and had gone thru. I had to give them a second draft and I told them if BOTH drafts come against my account I will close the account! And they will reimburse me for the points I lost by not putting those charges on the account I had. In other words IT had better be right. I have never had a late payment in my life nor have I ever missed a payment. Watch it - I bet by the end of the wk my account will have been hit with 2 drafts (almost 500 each). I told her if that happened - they will reimburse me with a draft and not by check 30 days later and they will pay me interest. I also want written verification of their error. Computers and geeks and young people who do not know what is really going on - they just pust numbers and do not care if they cause problems for individuals. WELL, I will cancel that credit card after 35 yrs. Had I not have let him change the acct. this would never have happened.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #39699 April 29, 2013 Quotejo here is the document in a form that you can read.... Well, I just read them and my memory is pretty DAMN good if this old woman has to say so her self. I had not seen the these FBI reports because I could never open them. Believe U me - I made copies of them and hope this is the END of the Chute arguments.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #39700 April 29, 2013 QuoteI spoke to Hayden prior to my computer days and prior to 2000 about the chute. I have the notes I made and Cossey did NOT own both of those chutes. Hayden owned one or both. Jo, The above is EXACTLY what everyone on this thread, including me, has been telling you all day. You really need to start reading the posts before claiming that someone is lying. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1583 1584 1585 1586 1587 1588 1589 1590 1591 1592 1593 Next Page 1588 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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BruceSmith 3 #39688 April 28, 2013 QuoteThe news Bruce and Blevins didn't give you: http://q13fox.com/2013/04/27/homicide-leads-to-warning-for-nearby-residents/#axzz2RmG3jPoY http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/body_found_in_washington_home.html http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Body-found-at-home-of-DB-Cooper-parachute-packer-4468172.php http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/04/26/2574781/king-county-detectives-investigate.html http://www.zoominfo.com/p/D.B.-Cooper/1277861813 Personal accounts: I can't believe this. Earl Cossey, a former junior high school teacher of mine in my hometown of Woodinville, Washington (an east side suburb outside Seattle) was found dead by his daughter last night in his garage. Police found head trauma and have declared as of today that the case is officially a homicide. Mr. Cossey was also a professional parachute jumper and was involved in the 1971 DB Cooper case. He was one of two men who supplied parachutes for the FBI to give to Cooper at Sea-Tac airport during the Thanksgiving Eve skyjacking. I had him in 7th grade for my Airsports class... where he taught us about the history and engineering of planes and rockets, and we built them as models. And he was so passionate when he told us his story about be being involved in the Cooper case. He also showed us the old 70's DB Cooper episode of "In Search Of" with Leonard Nimoy that also featured Cossey explaining the parachutes and Cooper's jump. He was a very friendly man and had a great sense of humor. He always had us laughing. My sisters and I are shocked by the news of this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. He will be truly missed. And I hope his killer is brought to justice soon! ------------------------------------------------------ WHy the dis, Georger? What news did these other media sources give you that I didn't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #39689 April 28, 2013 QuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #39690 April 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Reposting to add pdf file on parachutesbut....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39691 April 28, 2013 Nice find! very possible that Carr seen all of this confusion and said, that's it, I'm calling Cossey right now and put an end to this. wonder how the Beetles got mixed up in this had to say it....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #39692 April 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39693 April 29, 2013 Robert99 states: Smokin99's remarks above include the statement that Ckret said the two back parachutes came from Cossey's house. Jo states: The 2 back pacs were delivered by Cossey or other sources. Quote That Statement was correct! Robert99 states: That is probably CORRECT. Most of the emergency parachute riggers I have known over the years DID operate from their houses. Jo States: Robert READ what you stated above. The front pac IS the emergency pac! Perhaps you made a mistake - but as far as I know the emergency pac (the front pacs) were NOT supplied by Cossey. This is exactly why this is case is so screwed up. He said and she said and journalist screwing up and posters making mistakes. So NOW U are trying to say the emergency front pacs were supplied by COSSEY! He was a man of a few CHOICE words and I can only imagine what he might have to say about this. The EMERGENCY FRONT PACS came from another location which I believe was McChord. When the front pacs were found they were delivered by courier, but it was my understanding they came from McChord or another location. The name of the young man who made the mistake was publicize, but long forgotten by me. Robert stated: Finally, Cossey packed all four of the parachutes. I see no problem with Cossey's connection with the parachutes. Jo States: ARE you POSITIVE Cossey packed all 4 chutes. You might shoot yourself in the foot on that one. There was a story about the emergency front pacs and the location from which they were retrived. The man mistakenly provided a dummy chute from the supply room - at a different location and that was not Cossey's home. Do not know who packed the front pac (emergency chutes). REPOSTED THIS POST BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING IN ERROR HERE AS ROBERT99 CLAIMED IN ANOTHER POST. If you have reliable information that disputes the above information - POST it!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39694 April 29, 2013 Quote Robert99 states: Smokin99's remarks above include the statement that Ckret said the two back parachutes came from Cossey's house. Jo states: The 2 back pacs were delivered by Cossey or other sources. Robert99 states: That is probably CORRECT. Most of the emergency parachute riggers I have known over the years DID operate from their houses. Jo States: Robert READ what you stated above. The front pac IS the emergency pac! Perhaps you made a mistake - but as far as I know the emergency pac (the front pacs) were NOT supplied by Cossey. This is exactly why this is case is so screwed up. He said and she said and journalist screwing up and posters making mistakes. So NOW U are trying to say the emergency front pacs were supplied by COSSEY! He was a man of a few CHOICE words and I can only imagine what he might have to say about this. When the front pacs were found they were delivered by courier, but it was my understanding they came from McChord or another location. The name of the young man who made the mistake was publicize, but long forgotten by me. Robert stated: Finally, Cossey packed all four of the parachutes. I see no problem with Cossey's connection with the parachutes. Jo States: ARE you POSITIVE Cossey packed all 4 chutes. You might shoot yourself in the foot on that one. There was a story about the emergency front pacs and the location from which they were retrived. The man mistakenly provided a dummy chute from the supply room - at a different location and that was not Cossey's home. Do not know who packed the front pac (emergency chutes). I have reposted the above post because there are NO errors in it.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #39695 April 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy notes from my phone interviews and recollection are that Cossey told me that he was home when he got the call from NWO, and the two back chutes were at his home as well, and he put them in taxi and sent them to Boeing Field. Here's what I think about the chutes, based on my reading of the posts. When ckret/Carr was reading from the files, he posted that though all four were packed by Cossey, 2 of the chutes actually came from Issaquah and two of the chutes came from an unnamed person who now has ownership - courtesy of a cab. Then approx 6 months later, two of the chutes came directly from Cossey, from his house. Now, folks can say what they will on this forum, and yes, in the scheme of things, it might appear to be a small thing, but the two statements just plain don't match. My supposition is that Carr got the original information from the files, and then he changed it after he talked to Cossey (he interviewed Cossey and was quite taken with him per his posts). This was in the time frame of the story changing, if I remember correctly. Hey, I'm not saying that Carr decided to go with a 40 year old memory as opposed to what was written in the FBI files from interviews of the time.....but it sure looks that way. Is that good procedure or not? Frankly, I don't know. Inconsequential? Don't know that either. But yeah, in my mind, just sayin, it kind of raises some questions. Smokin99! You are certainly SMOKIN' today. I think you're on to something very important, and it jives with a PM that I just received from Snowmman, who advises me to consult with Tosaw, p. 14. "Lee phoned Cossey at his home and told him about the emergency and that they needed two back and two chest parachutes. Cossey told Lee that he had recently packed two back chutes and that he could pick them up at nearby Boeing Field." So, it appears that once upon a time Cossey's story jived exactly with the Hayden scenario. Then Cossey changed his story and interjected himself into the saga and the investigation. In 2009-2011 Cossey told me that he was home when NWO called, he owned the two chutes and they were at his home and then he put them into a taxi that headed to Boeing Field. He never explained to me why he didn't send them to Sea-Tac. At least that is what I heard Earl tell me. He denied ever knowing Hayden. He said that NWO paid him for his chutes. From then on Earl became the go-to-guy for Cooper parachute questions. He became in effect the FBI's tech spokesperson. He also helped shape the FBI's new narrative that DBC was a fool and died in the jump, using the "NB-8 is an inferior chute" as ruse. It worked for 40 years, but has been unraveling over the past two years. That demise also threatens the FBI who have relied on Cossey to shore up their spin story on Cooper. Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #39696 April 29, 2013 jo here is the document in a form that you can read...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #39697 April 29, 2013 QuoteAll the Cooper case PDF files from the FBI, the ones that are publicly available, are HERE. Yeah...for what it's worth. I've not been there in a while, but the last time I did there was not a lot of actual case files. Mainly a lot of newspaper clippings about the hijacking and stuff about the Fleming con. That site reminds me of looking at a pie and thinking, yum, yum, lemon meringue and then you bite into it and it's vanilla creme. What a downer.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39698 April 29, 2013 Quote Toshaw's version makes a lot of sense. Snowmman is on a roll tonight. I was reminded by him that the pictures you posted on mountain news of Hayden's chute showed that the serial number on the chute matched the SN that ckret posted on this forum way back when. He does good work and noticed that when no one else did. So it seems pretty clear that Hayden owned said chute. though I do not dismiss Cossey's knowledge of the chutes. He was a master rigger if I'm not mistaken - and from all reports packed the chutes - his seal was on them. I spoke to Hayden prior to my computer days and prior to 2000 about the chute. I have the notes I made and Cossey did NOT own both of those chutes. Hayden owned one or both. I also spoke with Cossey prior to 2000 and the original story is true - but over the yrs - be it age or ego's or the media - the history of the chutes got shuffled. Both Hayden and Cossey were very nice and what they told me goes right back to the original story, before too many childrens hands got into the cookie dough. I didn't know enough to ASK technical questions or specifics. The problem with the chute story is the general population nor the FBI have chute knowledge - and all of those hands in the dough contaminated the factual results. I have a tendancy to rely on the stories reported early on and the interviews I did during the first 5 yrs by phone with no knowledge of a computer. I didn't know the right questions to ask, but the ownership and delivery of the chutes match the things I was told in 1998 approx and they match the written reports from the early days as reported in Norjak and Tosaw's book and per phone conversations I had with Himmelsbach before the contaminations of age, media and memory were involved. The computer age has allowed individuals with NO information or elementary information to re-state and reclaim old stories and change the information without any repercussion. The motive of these individuals is usually just to be heard. For instance, I have been going around and around with a credit card company because of computer geeks without the experience. After the smoke inhalation I called a draft in for my payment - because of I forgot to drop it in the mail on time. Well, I get my bank statement and the draft had not been taken. Again I call the credit card company and she told me the draft went thru. I didn't understand the date and question her on this, but her information did not match mine. Then on SAT I get a call from the credit card company. I refused to give them information and then called back using the number on my statement. This person say my account was unpaid - I hit the ceiling in all of my 73 yrs I have never had a late payment. I gave her the ID number and transaction number for the draft and the initials of the employee. She said he had made an error. I told her that last wk I caught the error because it had not shown on my bank acct and that I had called and spoke to the 2ed person who assured me the draft was fine and had gone thru. I had to give them a second draft and I told them if BOTH drafts come against my account I will close the account! And they will reimburse me for the points I lost by not putting those charges on the account I had. In other words IT had better be right. I have never had a late payment in my life nor have I ever missed a payment. Watch it - I bet by the end of the wk my account will have been hit with 2 drafts (almost 500 each). I told her if that happened - they will reimburse me with a draft and not by check 30 days later and they will pay me interest. I also want written verification of their error. Computers and geeks and young people who do not know what is really going on - they just pust numbers and do not care if they cause problems for individuals. WELL, I will cancel that credit card after 35 yrs. Had I not have let him change the acct. this would never have happened.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #39699 April 29, 2013 Quotejo here is the document in a form that you can read.... Well, I just read them and my memory is pretty DAMN good if this old woman has to say so her self. I had not seen the these FBI reports because I could never open them. Believe U me - I made copies of them and hope this is the END of the Chute arguments.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #39700 April 29, 2013 QuoteI spoke to Hayden prior to my computer days and prior to 2000 about the chute. I have the notes I made and Cossey did NOT own both of those chutes. Hayden owned one or both. Jo, The above is EXACTLY what everyone on this thread, including me, has been telling you all day. You really need to start reading the posts before claiming that someone is lying. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
