WFFC Suggestions

[bigorangemd 0]

This was my first WFFC so I can't compare it to others, but when people back home asked how I was enjoying it my reply was "It's like being at Disney World on Christmas Day!" I had an absolute blast. Didn't jump any of the specialty aircraft not because I couldn't, but the King Air (which is my normal aircraft) and the CASA were so much fun I didn't want to jump anything else. The people were great and 10 days of skydiving GREAT! Now I just need a vacation to recoup from my vacation.

[kallend 1,623]

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I did a 50 way attempt with Carl Doherty (tent 9)

The key word in your post is "attempt". I think what Mirage63 is saying that if an "event" of invited jumpers that are able to do a 50 way or larger, that would bring in people.

I agree. I live only 90 miles from Rantoul and I did NOT bother to go this year. I would go for a serious big way.

I know a lot of Chicago area jumpers who can't take the whole week off would go for a weekend if they got a reasonable (pro-rated) registration rate.

Given that the EAA (Oshkosh) convention is a week earlier, it's interesting to compare: EAA has 100 times as many visitors, yet the site is CLEANER at the end of the day. EAA has a daily rate, too, if you can't stay the whole week.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sunshine 2]

I didn't go this year so i don't know how things were but my suggestions would be:

1. Daily registration fee. I refused to pay $69 when i could only be there 2-3 days max and i dont' drink beer.

2. No kids allowed to drive golf carts.

3. I like Amanda's portable sink idea. I always felt nasty not being able to wash my hands after using a porta potty.

That's all i can think of for now.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[CrazyRick 0]

1st wffc for me but I had a GREAT TIME.

More big way RW would be cool. I had hoped that at the end of every day the groups of rw would hook up for a big one.

I'll be back next year.

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[CDRINF 1]

Here are some comments I made in response to a survey sent out by the organizers after the 2001 convention. I think they are still valid today. Keep in mind that the price references are four years old, but it is interesting to note that attendance has dropped as prices have risen while the boogie format has remained generally the same.

COMMENTS/SUGGESTIONS I come to jump, not run naked through the party tent, so from the standpoint of having a large number of turbine aircraft operating on a continual basis, world-class load organizers, and high caliber jumping, the WFFC is fantastic. Facilities available are exceptional which means you don’t need to leave the airport so you can maximize jump time. The following are some observations and constructive suggestions:

1. The WFFC is overpriced. $59.00 registration and $18.00 basic jump tickets is pretty steep, and at the limit of what I think most jumpers are willing to pay. Registration and a reserve repack cost me $109 before I made a single jump! Specialty aircraft tickets are also overpriced. I never jump specialty aircraft because it meant the loss of the equivalent of 3-5 jumps from the standard aircraft. If, like me, you could only attend for a weekend, or several days, and you are there primarily for the skydiving, you are hard pressed to drink $59.00 worth of beer, and you don’t feel like you are getting your money’s worth from the entertainment. I’ll bring my own beer and make my own fun if it will lower the cost. At other boogies I have also jumped hard from turbine aircraft with excellent skydivers and organizers. These boogies, however, had a lower registration fee and used cheaper jump tickets as a draw. If you lowered registration to around $30-$40 and kept jump tickets at $16.00 or lower, I think that would be a big draw in and of itself. People would jump more and stay longer and I think you would come out ahead in the long run.

2. The WFFC has become stale. Do something to change the format and offer something new. The entertainment area should be looked at hard here. What we get now is a series of loud bands. There might be some cost savings here if you eliminate several of the bands. Mix things up and keep them skydiver oriented. Maybe a costume contest, or something like the stuff they do at Couch Freaks (polyester night, etc). Show more video footage shot during the day. Get a hold of every skydiving movie ever made and show them one a night. Offer night jumps if the moon phase will allow it. Have drawings and give-a-ways. The jet, of course, was a big draw, so every effort should be made to have at least one “novelty” aircraft (and you have to lock it in early enough to guarantee it will show – a lot of people got pissed off about that one). Look hard at introducing more competitive events. The pond swoop contest was a good start, lets see about having more activities that are skydiving related.

3. Keep the locals out! Sad to say, it was unruly locals that caused the cops to crack down, but the skydivers got the blame. I was at WFFC 2000 and the locals far outnumbered the skydivers around the beer truck and under the party tent. It was the locals doing the underage drinking and local girls flashing their boobs. The word was out in the town that there was a big party at the airport with free beer and little supervision. At registration there was a line of young local girls who waited to find a skydiver willing to sign them in as a “guest.” This was cleaned up some in 2001, and I think it showed, but since the cops could find no obvious trouble, they went looking for it. WFFC should be by skydivers, and for skydivers, not local punks looking for free beer.

4. Remember, it’s about Skydiving! Whatever decisions you decide to make, keep as your guiding principle this idea: “Will this help the attendees maximize the opportunity to make quality skydives”. Everything else is secondary.

CDR

[FreeflyChile 0]

I agree with the pro-rated fee thing.

Also, I don't know if it's just me or if there are others that feel the same way i do, but I would go to the convention, or any other big boogie, to be able to jump with people in the sport that I normally wouldn't get to jump with, or to do skydives I normally wouldn't get to do. While I did the biplane a few years ago and still love the picture, I'm at the point where I don't really care about the airplane I jump from...it's more about the skydive and the people on it. So, as a Chicago area jumper, I am not really compelled to spend 70 bucks plus normal or slightly higher than normal jump ticket prices (even if the organizers are world class) if I can go to Summerfest the week before, where prices are a lot lower (and, as an SDC jumper, i can use jumps from my prepaid package during summerfest). I guess my point is that while lowering the price may not always be possible because of the magnitude of the undertaking, it's hard to go to the wffc when there's a cheaper, and in many ways very similar, nearby alternative.

[sundevil777 93]

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there was a line of young local girls who waited to find a skydiver willing to sign them in as a “guest.”

For many, that would be worth the registration all by itself.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Plaedouh 0]

This was my first time to the WFFC, and I had a blast. I'd love to go again, and probably will. I spent a lot more time bouncing from places and groups, meeting people and getting involved in whatever. Big props to the people who put that together, I felt a lot of things were done well. Hell, my favorite memory of this trip comes in the least expected way. After a good 8-way jump, I found I had tracked my way to behind the WUFFO parking and gathering area, and I was more comfortable landing back there than cutting into traffic back and perhaps landing on that big ass museum plane by the pond. So I landed in the outfield of the baseball diamond, and gathered my things, a little annoyed I landed off in plane view of the locals (but happy enough it was a clean landing). I shit you not 15 kids immeadiatly ran up to me to have me sign notepads and the shirts on their backs, and have pictures taken and answer 1,000 questions about skydiving for a good 20 minutes. I must have had 8 people thank me for landing there. I've been to my share of boogies and even done a few minor demos, but that big of a wuffo response was a first, and it was by far just the most awesome feeling to see the excitment in those kids eyes. Most memorable landing ever. So many people just loved having us there.

But this thread is about feedback to improve the event, and I definatly hope we can keep it around, if not make it better.

1- Holy hell it was hot. I wonder what it costs to set up Cool Zones such as you'll see on football sidelines.

2- Everything has a price, so I can echo the idea of pro-raiting the registration fee somehow. I think it'd be great to enable people who can only make it for 2 or 3 days to still go and spend more on jumping than they do to get in the door. More jumpers makes everyone happy.

3- I don't go to boogies for the goodie bags, I go for the event. If I want a t-shirt or a cup I'll probably buy it. I can get all the pullup cords and goodies I need from the vendors.

4- Safety. You can only do so much with that at somthing this big. But why was het helicopter taking off and landing yards away from the swoop pond, in the "tandem/student landing area", while canopies were forced to land along side it, or flying over, under, or around it?

5- Bar was in a bad place, away from everything and completly uncovered when it would rain.

6- Better organization. I felt like there was a lot happening or a lot that could happen, but no way to keep up. How about 4-way competitions? Come with your own team competition, and maybe pot-luck teams are put together mixing high experience with low... could be fun and give more people a chance to join. How about a posted list of daily events, such as what time specialty planes will fly, who to look up for organizing loads, what raffles are coming up (only heard about Mirage when I was gearing up for a load, and by the time I got free chance to get out there, I'd missed it). Overall it felt like there was so much that could be done, and with some more structure and organized activities, there would be more for people to get involved in.

This was a great vacation for me, and a lot of fun. I came wanting to get in some good jumping and have fun at night. I met a lot of great people to jump with, and when the sun went down we had a lot of freedom to go off the wall. I know the authorities looked the other way, literaly as they were driving through the party, while we were up to some real reckless behavior.

The biggest battle ahead for the WFFC seems to be in trying to appeal to everyone, when everyone wants different things. Unfortunatly the bland middle ground won't improve things. Some want bigger bands, more social scene and more entertainment. Some want more low-key entertainment and more focus on the jumping. I think we can have both, but it'll take some creativity.

[Clite 0]

I have never been to the WFFC so take my suggustion with a grain of salt. How about moving the convention around? Have it hosted in different areas of the country to allow new people a chance to see the WFFC without major travel expenses and those who are willing to travel have a chance to see another part of the country. Surely there are other places in the country willing to host a major freefall convention that is not a dropzone. This could help ensure a new customer base every year.

[bigorangemd 0]

A) They have a contract with the city of Rantoul since they fixed up the facilities.

B) It would be hard to find a place with an airport with an area large enough for the jumpers and facilities but yet not full of air traffic.

C) The people of Rantoul LOVE the convention and greatly depend on it every year.

[peek 20]

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... but even people with 50 jumps are probably in over their heads, unless they regularly jump at Perris, Eloy, or one of the other mega-DZ's.

That is exactly why it was changed, because we got questions from people just like that who wondered why they could not attend as a Skydiver when they had that kind of experience.

Also, those with a license but not 50 freefalls (called "Novices") were required to jump one-on-one with an instructional rating holder, treating it just like any other "coached" jump, meaning _complete_ supervision, including procedures commensurate with the Novice's experience. A detailed guide for the supervising instructional rating holder was given to those doing this.

As it turned out, we had few "Novices" registered like that, so we won't have an answer to how well it works this year.

[droquette 0]

WEll I went for a week and it was my first time. I have to say that coming from a cessna DZ this was like Disney World; I personally went to jump and jump i did so I am fully satisfied and will be back. I do have some recomendations though:

1) The portable sinks is a great idea.. i would have dealt with a garden hose or something but i did feel all dirty the whole time and nowhere to get clean

2) I think the idea of cutting of the wrist band for a prorated reduction is a great idea. It aint fair for people to pay $70 to jump for 2 days.

3) Where the hell were the freefly organizers??????

4) Put the bar and beer cart inside the tent so i dont have to leave the party and/or get wet to get some of the beer i paid $70 for.

5) The big yellow arrow should have been there from day 1.. They should actually use something that lies flat on the grouns instead of that thing that looked like a missle. I know it was made out of cardboard but a fast landing 30+ mph is still going to hurt if you hit that thing.

6) I didnt get to jump the pac or the sirkorsky.. i understand the sirkosky had fire duty and that is more imortant than the WFFC but what happnened to the Pac???? Thank god John Edows brought the news chopper.. that was pretty cool

7) The goodie bag sucked. thats not the reason why i go either but you come to expect at least a T-shirt which is what other boogies mostly give for a MUCH LOWER registration fee

8) the food was way to expensive albeit the trailer supermarket was awesome!!!
9) golf carts at night with 12 year old kids driving is way dangerous.. almost as dangerous as the nuts trying to dirt dive between a couple of carts. at 2am
10) The party was way lame..... I was expecting to see some serious mayhem which never really came.. although the couch burning on sat night was pretty cool....
11) In addition to the sinks i think water fountains or at least coolers are a MUST to help avoid dehydration...it was like haydees for a couple of days
Now that the constructive criticism is done with the positive points:
1) the people in rantoul are really great. I have never seen a town so pro-skydiving. The airport itself is perfect for the event. It should not go anywhere for a long time.
2) The vendors that were there treated me great.
3) I hardly ever had to wait for a load to go up!!!
4) There were plenty of portopotties and they were cleaned daily
5) The cops stayed out of everybody's way (or at least mine)
6) BOunce Burgers are very tasty

So in recap everyone can always do things better. So these are just suggestions from my point of view, considering this was my first convention take them with a grain of salt. I will be back and I would do it all over again if given the chance.

Blue Skies and cya next year!

dan

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[kallend 1,623]

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1) The portable sinks is a great idea.. i would have dealt with a garden hose or something but i did feel all dirty the whole time and nowhere to get clean

Once again - I was at Oshkosh the previous week for the EAA convention. They have well over a half-million people and they manage to keep them clean and watered, and the grounds clean and tidy. It is not an impossible task.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Adriandavies 0]

Errr...has anyone thought about advertising it more widely? I jump in the UK and if it wasn't for the comments on DZ.com I would not have known it was on. It is called the WORLD Free Fall Convention but the only advertising for it seems to be done in America. Foreign DZ's and boogies regularly advertise in the British Skydive magazine so why didn't/couldn't the WFFC?

Secondly if more Europeans are to be attracted to it why not hold it earlier in the year in April or May? Airfares would be cheaper for us and it would not clash with the height of our season or our best weather. In a way that would also make it a great season opener for the US participants as well.

[PsychoBob 0]

***why not hold it earlier in the year in April or May?

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That is right in the middle of the spring tornado season in the mid-west. October would be nice after the corn has been harvested. That way if you are on one of the infamous DC-3 load you could walk back through a clean field to the road and not have to swim through the corn.

"I'm not a gynecologist but I will take a look at it"
RB #1295, Smokey Sister #1, HellFish #658, Dirty Sanchez #194, Muff Brothers #3834, POPS #9614, Orfun Foster-Parent?"

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[ChangoLanzao 0]

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***why not hold it earlier in the year in April or May?

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That is right in the middle of the spring tornado season in the mid-west. October would be nice after the corn has been harvested. That way if you are on one of the infamous DC-3 load you could walk back through a clean field to the road and not have to swim through the corn.

October is equally bad here weatherwise; the weather is very unpredictable then and it can get quite cold and/or windy. The days are shorter too.

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[happythoughts 0]

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Where the hell were the freefly organizers?

I am unsure if it is still done this way, but it used to be that the aircraft owner provided a certain number of free organizer slots. To get one, the group had to be a minimum of 4.

Essentially, it is too expensive to provide a free slot to a person who brings two others.

Most freeflyers are not going to do 4-way with 3 others of unknown skill. It would be dangerous. (Many times, people with 80 jumps tell me that they have 180.)

This convention, I never went to the plane with less than 6 others. Most of the time, 9 to 12. That makes money for the aircraft owner and boogie organizer.

[cheneyneel 0]

Well I havent been to the WFFC But I can tell you why... The perception of safety.... Max altitude opening hights, people up all night then jumping.. Me and many others willnot go because it is perceived as to be unsafe..

The DZ should be safe enough for people with less than fifty jumps.. I really dont trust people party'n it up allnight than jump off the drugs and booze.. screwing up skydives and then cluster fuck for landings.. man that just is not fun.....

there are many of us very current and experienced jumpers who will not go because of this.. we go to smaller boogies that may still have three or fuor turbines running but it is safe enough for those jumpers with less than 50..

So when the WFFC is safe enough for very low time jumpers then the people will come back... that is all there is too it..

[loudtom 5]

Good post, while my opinion may not count for much, here it is. It was a smooth run convention, not too much mayhem and it was clean. You can make of it what you want.
Everyone should go at some point. This was my first but it won't be my last. Next year I will rest up before for a couple weeks just to get ready.
Love and Blues and No Wind Days,
the yo

tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)

[banjobill 0]

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Well I havent been to the WFFC But I can tell you why... The perception of safety.... Max altitude opening hights, people up all night then jumping.. Me and many others willnot go because it is perceived as to be unsafe..

The DZ should be safe enough for people with less than fifty jumps.. I really dont trust people party'n it up allnight than jump off the drugs and booze.. screwing up skydives and then cluster fuck for landings.. man that just is not fun.....

there are many of us very current and experienced jumpers who will not go because of this.. we go to smaller boogies that may still have three or fuor turbines running but it is safe enough for those jumpers with less than 50..

So when the WFFC is safe enough for very low time jumpers then the people will come back... that is all there is too it..

Well, I have been, last year and this. Maybe you ought to go before prejudging how safe the jumpers are. I was thinking of going to a different boogie next year because of my limited "boogie funds", and limited time off work. But, after my experience this year (despite the rain and fewer jumps than I had planned), I think I'll go again, but start earlier in the week and stay longer. This is the boogie the world goes to.

....with a capital P and that rhymes with T and that spells TROUBLE!!!

[nicknitro71 0]

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Just one bad experience I heard about. And I think that even without a "bad" experience like this one, anyone with less than 50 jumps is in WAY over their head jumping there. I wouldn't raise the minimum (just because that's how it's always been done), but even people with 50 jumps are probably in over their heads, unless they regularly jump at Perris, Eloy, or one of the other mega-DZ's.

My wife got there with 55 jumps and did just fine.



Attendance was down big time this year even though the weather cooperated, for the most part. Some blame the economy but that is just a lame answer.

There are few problems in my view.

The jump tickets were 21 bucks so the same of what we pay anywhere else.

The admission ticket was priced fairly only if you did stay for at least a week or so and camp in. I like the idea of pro-rating.

Nowadays big turbine DZs are within driving distance from almost any location so people don't see any advantage on going to the convention.

Aircrafts delivery...that has been a problem for quite sometimes...remember the jet...they love to fuck with us...

A lot of jumpers don't like the idea of the off the hook parting and jumpers leaping off still half drunk or stoned. This is especially true at the convention because of the no-rule policy.

Load organizers is another problem. The Knights did not have the dough to come and the FF ones were missing. The RW and WS guys did a great job though.

Vendor's ticket is steep. I was helping Augusto from Rigging Innovations and it takes a lot of rigging to cover the initial 1000 bucks and we are talking just 9 days of work here.

I heard that the Aircraft's owners were getting ripped off too...flame away.

I actually kinda liked this year convention and the much calmer atmosphere but this might be it.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[rhino 0]

I think they need to raise the hard deck on pull altitudes. Personally i don't like having to pull in the 2500 foot range.

Luckily Mullins would drop me in a different spot out of the jump runs and let me pull high.. Last wffc I went to I was pulling at 5-6k from Mullins plane only.

[flyboy6554 3]

I had a great time at the convention, made all the jumps I could stand, and enjoyed everything about the place.
My one complaint....too many dogs!!! I know all the dog-lovers will flame me but why allow all the dogs into the camping area where they are crapping all over the place so I end up walking through it, especially at night when you can't see it?! It's disgusting and becoming more and more of a problem every year. And don't tell me that owners can clean up after their pets because THEY NEVER DO!!
Leave the pets at home, please!!

My two cents.

[stoneycase 0]

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there was a line of young local girls who waited to find a skydiver willing to sign them in as a “guest.”

For many, that would be worth the registration all by itself.

agreed. sign me up for next year.

for those in charge of marketing - your next ad should be a picture of the line.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[flyangel2 2]

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And don't tell me that owners can clean up after their pets because THEY NEVER DO!!

Not true. Just ask Rev. Jim how I went out of my way to pick up after my dog.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey