ReLLiK75 0 #1 August 27, 2003 I was reading through a document from the Australian Parachute Federation that states anyone who does not have at least a D license must have an AAD. How strictly is this enforced? Specifically, how strictly is this enforced at the DZ near Sydney? I've got an RSL, but no AAD and was planning on jumping while in Australia. If the DZs are strict about enforcing that requirement, I guess there's no reason to lug my rig all the way there :( __________________________________________ Have you Got Flare? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #2 August 27, 2003 Wayne, APF regulations are enforced very strictly down here. No way they let yo jump without an AAD with your jump numbers. Sorry. Can you "rent" a Cypres at your DZ? The other thing you can do is to leave the rig at home and rent gear at e.g. Picton. Good idea is to contact in advance and find out what they have available.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #3 August 27, 2003 I've decided to shell out the money and get a cypres2. After tons of peer pressure, and the fact that some places require AAD's (skydive San Diego) I should just spend the money and forget about it. It kinda pisses me off that they are so expensive...... I wish it were the 80's..........nobody used AAD's back then! things were cheaper! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReLLiK75 0 #4 August 27, 2003 I plan on getting an AAD, but not until I get a new rig and that won't be happening for about a year, unless I come across a deal that's just too damn good to pass up--kinda like how I got my current rig (Had less than 70 jumps on the main, none on the reserve and it cost me $600). Right now, I'm not sure if I should look at a new container that's AAD ready and stick my 215 main in it, or just wait until I'm ready to downsize and go buy the whole thing in one shot... Anyway, that rule really sucks! I know AADs are there to save your life, but just being cautious, not doing anything stupid, and being aware of what's going on at all times is the best way to save your life--and the method I think people shoudl rely on. Not some mechanical device..... __________________________________________ Have you Got Flare? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #5 August 27, 2003 QuoteI wish it were the 80's..........nobody used AAD's back then! things were cheaper! Fair enough. I just believe 1200 is a pretty cheap price to pay for something that could save my life one day. I like to think of it as an additional insurance policy I hope I never have to collect on. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #6 August 28, 2003 Unfortunately rules is rules. However a friendly rigger may be able to loan you an AAD and the APF may also do this. Picton has a 190 & a 170 ready to go although the 190 is nearing the end of it's servicable life... See you soon CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #7 August 28, 2003 Look at it this way; if your reserve pin breaks off at the shoulder when you "go for the silver" your cypres will cut the loop and deploy your reserve! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #8 August 28, 2003 Quote Anyway, that rule really sucks! and being aware of what's going on at all times is the best way to save your life--and the method I think people shoudl rely on. Not some mechanical device..... Well it's out rule you dont have to like it but you also dont haver to jump. Being aware isn't worth shit to you wjhen you're unconcious For whats it's worth (probaly naff all) I like therule so thereYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #9 August 28, 2003 Also, being aware isn't worth shit if you're not aware. I've seen video, and I've done it myself. Not to cypress territory, but ~1k' below where I wanted to be...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymick 0 #10 August 28, 2003 QuoteAnyway, that rule really sucks! I know AADs are there to save your life, but just being cautious, not doing anything stupid, and being aware of what's going on at all times is the best way to save your life--and the method I think people shoudl rely on. Not some mechanical device..... Dude there are some low timers out there who never had a chop before and may not particulary have a lot of general awareness in the sky which is not a good combination. I can think of at least 2 people that have been saved by this rule in the last 2 years due to their inability to follow emergency procedures when the shit hit the fan... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #11 August 28, 2003 Three ways to look at it: 1) Is you life worth more than $1200? Eg if God asked you right now for $1200 or he was going to end your life, would you give it to him? I know its not usually this clear cut...but it just might be... 2) What happens to you if you get knocked out in freefall or your reserve pin snaps? ie What if something out of your control happens? 3) its a rule set by the governing body, you can't jump unless you abide by them (or try to abide by the big ones at least...) If you go in without one, its quite possible some bloody govt bureacrat will try to shut the DZ down for some period of time whilst investigating...ie you may screw a whole lot of other jumpers around by doing it. The rule is about to go up to E lic. At my dz you can hire gear with an AAD, I heard you can even hire a cypress from some riggers (although I think this was for if yours is off to AirTec). Shoot us an e-m when you hit Sydney, can do a jump and grab a beer.xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 August 28, 2003 QuoteLook at it this way; if your reserve pin breaks off at the shoulder when you "go for the silver" your cypres will cut the loop and deploy your reserve! Don't you mean your Cypress may cut the loop and activate your reserve, possibly resulting in a deployment? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #13 August 28, 2003 And one at my DZ who was not saved cos she never had one - dispite our chat... It's always OK until it's not and then you're fucked if you don't have a plan. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poohbeer 0 #14 August 28, 2003 QuoteThree ways to look at it: 1) Is you life worth more than $1200? Eg if God asked you right now for $1200 or he was going to end your life, would you give it to him? I know its not usually this clear cut...but it just might be... A $50.000 Mercedes is also bound to protect you better than that car/bike you're driving now. And my life sure as hell is worth more then $50.000. But that still doesn't mean i'm driving such a car. I find the risk in my '89 Volkswagen acceptable. Quote2) What happens to you if you get knocked out in freefall or your reserve pin snaps? ie What if something out of your control happens? What if.. you can ALWAYS find a "what if" to speak for something. Doesn't mean nobody can't decide for themselves if is worth it. (I think it is, if you can afford it, but not everybody will agree as they see less risk with not having an AAD) But as you said, rules are rules and they should be kept in place because if the shit hits the fan it's not that sole jumper that get's it. ------- SIGNATURE BELOW ------- Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!! "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReLLiK75 0 #15 August 28, 2003 I was not intending to start an AAD debate here. I just think it's wrong that one be required to have an AAD vs being strongly encouraged to have one. We're not required to jump from the plane, but we do and we recognize the risks involved by doing so. Like I said, I do eventually plan on getting one and recognize the value of having one ( and what's an extra thousand dollars when spending over 3K on a rig anyway?) Anyway, as my rig is not setup for an AAD, I'll have to just rent a whole setup while there. No sense in dragging that thing half way across the globe :( (how I'm going to miss it...) So what does gear rental run at the DZs there? __________________________________________ Have you Got Flare? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #16 August 28, 2003 *** I just think it's wrong that one be required to have an AAD vs being strongly encouraged to have one I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #17 August 28, 2003 QuoteI just think it's wrong I wouldnt call it wrong... I dont agree with it, but thats doesnt make it wrong. Its their call.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #18 August 29, 2003 I don't think it's wrong. We are talking about Australia not the USA. Here in Oz we have certain rules put in place to help protect alot of people from themselves and others. We have mandatory seatbelts for cars, helmets for bikes, smoke detectors for new houses and AADs for skydivers with less than a D licence (soon to be E) If we all lived in a land of perfection where things don't go wrong we would probably not have as many rules. So here's what I do. I find out the rules before I play, if the rules are too much for me or I don't necassarily agree with them I don't play the game. It's my choice, I choose to ride a motorbike so I wear a helmet, I choose to drive a car so I wear a seat belt. I choose to skydive so I use a cypress.Make your choiceYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #19 August 30, 2003 QuoteI don't think it's wrong. We are talking about Australia not the USA. Here in Oz we have certain rules put in place to help protect alot of people from themselves and others. reply] aus or usa, or wherever.........it chaps my ass that every day, more and more people make laws to protect me from myself......... let me decide what i wanna fukin do with myself....... freakin safety happy nazis.......... btw, i have 3 rigs, all with cypres's and id jump without one and have.............price to upkeep em (4 year and batteries every 2 years on 3 rigs) sux, and what sux more is one is no longer any good after sometime in 2005.......... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fergs 0 #20 August 30, 2003 Quote unless I come across a deal that's just too damn good to pass up--..... I saw a cypres in ebay the other day for $250. Yes, it wasn't new - but it would make you legal if you take your gear to Oz. Also, may even save your life if called upon. Anyhow, just an option ... fergbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikkey 0 #21 August 30, 2003 let me decide what i wanna fukin do with myself....... freakin safety happy nazis.......... btw, i have 3 rigs, all with cypres's and id jump without one and have.*** Don't understand - your profile says you are in the US - in the US you are not forced to have a Cypres but you've got one on all your rigs. So what are you complaining about?? It must mean you think a Cypres is a good thing or...? Also, what is a "happy nazi"? or do you mean "happy safety nazi"...? If people really understood what a nazi is they would not use this word so loosely about other people...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #22 August 30, 2003 >I wish it were the 80's..........nobody used AAD's back then! things were cheaper! All students used them, which meant you used them up to your 25th-30th jump. They were cheap and they sucked; misfires were a lot more common. Be careful what you wish for! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #23 August 31, 2003 Here's a different take on the AAD issue: they also offer some protection for people and property on the ground. I was told that several years ago a jumper at my DZ had a heart attack in freefall and wound up making a new skylight in a local building. We can't use skyballs around here because of the risk to people/property on the ground, but 200 pounds of incapacitated skydiver is OK? It seems there is a small but real risk of liability here. Is this the reason some DZs require AADs, or is it something worth considering? There is a thread elsewhere about issue of liability insurance the USPA offers, and it was suggested that we all need to do what we can to reduce incidents that generate lawsuits. I think one could make an arguement for AADs in this light._____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #24 August 31, 2003 > Here's a different take on the AAD issue: they also offer some protection > for people and property on the ground. I don't buy that. It would make far more sense to require BRS systems in aircraft; after all, your house will probably survive being hit by a skydiver (might need a new roof) but will not survive being hit by an airplane. > Is this the reason some DZs require AADs . . . Not any DZ I've ever talked to about the issue. Generally #1 is keeping people alive (which DZO's care about) and #2 is liability reduction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 340 #25 August 31, 2003 Thanks Bill. Of course skydiver safety is the #1 issue, I was just wondering if the liability issue was even worth considering. I guess it's too rare and unlikely a scenario for DZs to require AADs for this reason._____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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fergs 0 #20 August 30, 2003 Quote unless I come across a deal that's just too damn good to pass up--..... I saw a cypres in ebay the other day for $250. Yes, it wasn't new - but it would make you legal if you take your gear to Oz. Also, may even save your life if called upon. Anyhow, just an option ... fergbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #21 August 30, 2003 let me decide what i wanna fukin do with myself....... freakin safety happy nazis.......... btw, i have 3 rigs, all with cypres's and id jump without one and have.*** Don't understand - your profile says you are in the US - in the US you are not forced to have a Cypres but you've got one on all your rigs. So what are you complaining about?? It must mean you think a Cypres is a good thing or...? Also, what is a "happy nazi"? or do you mean "happy safety nazi"...? If people really understood what a nazi is they would not use this word so loosely about other people...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #22 August 30, 2003 >I wish it were the 80's..........nobody used AAD's back then! things were cheaper! All students used them, which meant you used them up to your 25th-30th jump. They were cheap and they sucked; misfires were a lot more common. Be careful what you wish for! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #23 August 31, 2003 Here's a different take on the AAD issue: they also offer some protection for people and property on the ground. I was told that several years ago a jumper at my DZ had a heart attack in freefall and wound up making a new skylight in a local building. We can't use skyballs around here because of the risk to people/property on the ground, but 200 pounds of incapacitated skydiver is OK? It seems there is a small but real risk of liability here. Is this the reason some DZs require AADs, or is it something worth considering? There is a thread elsewhere about issue of liability insurance the USPA offers, and it was suggested that we all need to do what we can to reduce incidents that generate lawsuits. I think one could make an arguement for AADs in this light._____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #24 August 31, 2003 > Here's a different take on the AAD issue: they also offer some protection > for people and property on the ground. I don't buy that. It would make far more sense to require BRS systems in aircraft; after all, your house will probably survive being hit by a skydiver (might need a new roof) but will not survive being hit by an airplane. > Is this the reason some DZs require AADs . . . Not any DZ I've ever talked to about the issue. Generally #1 is keeping people alive (which DZO's care about) and #2 is liability reduction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #25 August 31, 2003 Thanks Bill. Of course skydiver safety is the #1 issue, I was just wondering if the liability issue was even worth considering. I guess it's too rare and unlikely a scenario for DZs to require AADs for this reason._____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
