AC emergency... what hight do you go to your reserve?

[yoink 321]

Simple question inspired by a thread in the Incidents forum. Have you thought about what hight you'd go straight for your reserve in the event of an aircraft emergency?

Personally, I've always said 2k or below, but I've a feeling that most people will be lower than that.

Will

PS: This is one of my nightmare scenarios... Can't practice for it, just hope that everyone stays cool

[samhussey 0]

Me too. 2K is my hard deck, if I dont have something to land at that height, its reserve time.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Some things to consider in your decision making process.

Its acceptable to pull your main at 2k for a C and D license. At that hight in a normal skydive thats about 10 seconds from impact and you are going to cover a large distance during the opening sequence of your canopy.

In an aircraft emergency at 2000ft you are 15-20 seconds from impact after you exit.

In an aircraft emergency at 1000ft you are closer to the 10 seconds to impact that is acceptable in the SIM (using time as your only indicator). You are also going to cover far less distance during the opening sequence of your canopy as you are traveling much slower to start with.

You can use the relative wind to open your canopy relatively quickly straight after exit.

If you have a cypres you may want to ensure your canopy will have finished its opening sequence by the time you hit 750ft.

[Ron 7]

Well, mine is 1,000-1,200...Depending if I feal lucky

My cut away hard deck is the same. 1,000 to 1,200.

Basicly if its near the 1 thousand foot mark, its time to stop the skydive. I don't bother looking at the altimeter that long if its actually ON it..close is close enough for me.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rainman 0]

I voted 2000 ft or below, because I have a bungee-collapsible pilot chute that will only start to generate drag when my speed is sufficiently high, at least when I forget to 'cock' it.

Rainman

[yoink 321]

I kinda thought you'd be one of the people posting a low altitude Ron

[winsor 186]

The altitude at which I don't focus immediately on silver and go to the main depends on where I am and what I'm jumping.

The decision altitude is a little higher when I'm jumping an EXTreme 99 FX than a Raven IV. Also, if I'm at Lebanon, ME I have a much higher likelihood of a tree landing if the spot is bad than at Eloy, and I want a big main overhead if I have to go through lumber.

Most of my reserves are sized so I can survive a surprise landing in suburbia. This is not true of all of my mains.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[nicknitro71 0]

As an instructor you should not advocate that

It depends on the system I am jumping. With my Prodigy 175 I have no problem getting out at 1000 and toss the PC.

If I am jumping my Viper then at 1500 I go for the silver, if I'm close to 2K I toss the PC.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Ron 7]

Quote

I kinda thought you'd be one of the people posting a low altitude Ron

Hell, I pull my main high....If I break from a 4way at 4 grand, I pull by 3.

I don't mind going low, but I have learned that time is good, and altitude equals time.

So I track till I am clear, and deploy as soon as it is safe.

I also cutaway as soon as I can once I say "Shit, its not gonna work!"

It has been as high as 2 grand, and as low as 800 feet.

But for an emergency exit...Around 1,000 feet I'll pull my reserve...This is based on the fact I have an AAD, and if I go on my main the CYPRES most likley will fire anyway. From around 1200 it might not.

It also depends on WHERE I am...If I am over the DZ I am more likley to use my main...If I don't know where I amI go to the reserve since I can sink it better and land it in more areas....It would suck to deploy my main and then find myself at 700 feet with no place to land a canopy that needs a runway.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Pendragon 1]

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...If you have a cypres you may want to ensure your canopy will have finished its opening sequence by the time you hit 750ft.

Totally agree with the previous poster. What I'd like to add is that if you have time to get the main out you probably should: why would you want to put yourself under a canopy that is both probably smaller than you're used to and you've possibly never piloted before (or at most have very limited experience!)

I would guess around the 1,000-1,500 ft mark, go straight for the reserve if you've got an AAD fitted, simply to avoid the 2 canopies out scenario. If you don't, I'd probably lower the threshold, and that's only because the main would've been packed to open slowly from terminal and might take too long sub-terminal...

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[Tonto 1]

1500. That's my hard deck. I don't want a mal below that.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[velo90 0]

Quote

why would you want to put yourself under a canopy that is both probably smaller than you're used to and you've possibly never piloted before

I have piloted my reserve before and in both my rigs my reserve is bigger than my main.

That been said.
If cypres is active I would go for the reserve below 1500ft.
If cypres is not active I would go straight to silver below 1000ft.
These answers are based on the canopies I jump.

As has been said before, you might think you'll go for the reserve, but, to pull the main is natural.
It's someting you have to concentrate on if you really want to do it.

[ixlr82 7]

Personally, 1500 ft, or close. A heads up for the jumpers not yet aware of it. Cypres will not be active until you go above 1500 ft. AGL. So if you never get to 1500 ft., the cypres will not operate. Also, at our DZ, when we reach 1000 ft. we are often over a 600 ft. hill. ( 400 ft. AGL! ) Know where you are.

__________________________________________

[JJohnson 0]

Anything under 1500 for me is silver handle time.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[markbaur 0]

Quote

But for an emergency exit...Around 1,000 feet I'll pull my reserve...This is based on the fact I have an AAD, and if I go on my main the CYPRES most likley will fire anyway. From around 1200 it might not.

The arming altitude for Cypres is 1500 feet. If the airplane hasn't made it to that altitude, the Cypres will not fire. On the other hand, if the emergency started at 2000 feet and the airplane has been descending then you're right -- you will have a higher chance of a Cypres fire with a low exit. You'll still need to accelerate to firing speed, though, so you might still be better off going for the handle you've pulled a zillion times before, instead of the new handle. Gets kinda complicated, doesn't it?

Mark

[Ron 7]

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The arming altitude for Cypres is 1500 feet. If the airplane hasn't made it to that altitude, the Cypres will not fire

Yep, I learned that when my buddy Mike went in...When I was told I asked "Didn't he have a CYPRES? Did it Fail?" ...then we actually read the manual.

Quote

You'll still need to accelerate to firing speed, though, so you might still be better off going for the handle you've pulled a zillion times before, instead of the new handle. Gets kinda complicated, doesn't it?

Not a Zillion times, but thanks
Yep it gets really complicated.

Thats why at 1000-1200 feet it depends if I feel lucky. In truth its not if I feel lucky, but more a really quick assesment of all of the factors.

1. When was the last time I packed this? If it is the first jump after a mth...It might take longer to open.

2. How have my openings been? If they have been really slow...That matters in this choice.

3. Where am I at? Am I over the DZ where its flat, and I know the area? Or am I over trees (If a tree is 150 feet tall then you are 850 ATL.) If I don't know or its not a nice place, then I pull my reserve...Its bigger, flies slower, and is easier to put into tight places.

These are just some of them...But I think faster than I type. So I would go with my gut feeling for THAT exit.

If you are not sure, or have any doubts...just go for the reserve. I have some experience, so I might not.

But ya know what? Being under a reserve at 2 grand is better than being dead.

So maybe I should even just pick 1500 feet? I don't know. But since I have been at terminal at 1500 feet a bunch of times...I still might go main. This is a great example of how number of jumps is not always the best thing.

But the "Do as I say, not as I do" I would tell you to go silver at 1500.

It eliminates all the issues.
You don't have to worry about a CYPRES fire.
You are under a more docile canopy that has a better chance of opening.

I would tell you to put your hand on the handle, and dive out.

Who knows it might be exactly what I would do.....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[FrogNog 1]

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...might still be better off going for the handle you've pulled a zillion times before, instead of the new handle...

I've pretended to pull my reserve handle about as many times as I've actually pulled my main. (I do have to admit I pretend to pull my main about 2x as often as either of the above counts.)

The only thing I worry about with a reserve handle is how hard it will be to pull. If that baby is within spec, I feel confident I can tear it out quick and well.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[FrogNog 1]

For me it's 2000 feet _bare minimum_ PLUS the height of the largest hill I could be over PLUS the height of the trees on that hill. As I regularly exit w/in 1/4 mile of a hill that's 600 feet tall, this means 3k in an aircraft emergency (according to my altimeter).

If I knew for sure we were over the big wide farmland, I would consider taking it down to 2k, if it was a "calm, controlled" aircraft emergency.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Nullified 0]

As others have pointed out, it would depend on several factors.
If I were jumping my Lightning, I wouldn't have any reservations throwing out at 1000', or even slightly lower. Given a typical deployment, I'd have a fully inflated canopy PDQ, and time to cutaway from it if I needed to.
If I had my Sabre2 with me, depending upon other factors, I would say that 1500'-1800' would be my cut off.
My reserve deployments to date have been absolutely beautiful, but I'd prefer not to go to my final option before giving plan A a shot...altitude permitting.

Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[bch7773 0]

Quote

For me it's 2000 feet _bare minimum_ PLUS the height of the largest hill I could be over PLUS the height of the trees on that hill. As I regularly exit w/in 1/4 mile of a hill that's 600 feet tall, this means 3k in an aircraft emergency (according to my altimeter).

so if you are near the hill, you'd pull your reserve at 3k? what altitude do you normally pull at on a normal skydive?
don't forget, your main will probably open in less altitude during an aircraft emergency, so if you normally pull at 3.5k, you might be in the saddle at the same altitude as if you pulled right out the door in an aircraft emergency of 3k.


but to answer the orginal question, below 1500 ft I'd go for silver.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[CornishChris 5]

I went for 1500.

Whilst I am still new to this sport I have tossed my PC out over 100 times and I have never gone for silver (touch many wooden things), so the natural thing to do for me is go PC. If the occasion arose I would have no problems going for silver - believe me I like being here - but I will stick with muscle memory rather than trying something new at a low height.

Kind of a wierd roundabout argumnet.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[pds 0]

1.5k.

strange you ask today. just this morning as i was waking up i had a mal dream.

don't know what the mal was as i just remember being low enough to see people pointing, pulled silver and the reserve snivelled. i knew it was over but kept trying and somehow got it open in time to land in this guys back yard. weeeiiird.

namaste, motherfucker.

[relyon 0]

I'll go for my main (Lightning 143 w/ pullout & tailpocket) at any altitude because it's faster than the reserve.

Bob

[stoneycase 0]

I'm a relatively new jumper, less than a year in the sport.

No Cypres - too poor. I plan on getting one asap.

Most of my jumps in Santa Barbara, CA.

I'm going for Silver at 1500 and below.

I've been low on two jumps that I remember specifically. I swear I saw people in cars. If an AC emergency occurs the last thing I want is a problem with my main. To me, my life is worth the freaking repack Nobody wants this to be their last trip to altitude...

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[frankiebrina 0]

1500 and below I go for the silver.
Had a cypress fire once as I opened my main. Not the greatest day.
Well come to think of it yes it was a good day.